EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Three young dogs I am starting this year. They are right at 7 months. About a month ago I showed them their first hog, about a 60# shoat and they caught it. Put them in one at a time and they still caught out. Probably will not live long!  Got a feeling tho that they going to be taking a lot of hogs to the train station. They have been running since they were 4 1/2 months old in a running pen. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240121/bf44da7ba69a83d4a91980ddfa42e60b.jpg)
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The


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What’re they off Mike? Can’t beat that for young dogs starting, sure makes it easier to feed em!

Well the next round of them seem real  promising, hope they survive.

Ben, all three are off my Oak dog by three different gyps. The Maltese female is off my Trumpet dog who is the grittiest dog on my yard. She is a running catchdog. No bay to her unless she is by herself in a real thicket. Rip, the pup with the red collar is off of Auburn who is off of Hank x a Littermate to Trumpet. Flint is off Showgirl. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240121/10b1b3b9c7b0b69cb0324a5ad58ff44a.jpg)
Oak

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Showgirl


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Sounds like like they will be giving hogs the fits if they can get educated without meeting their maker. Really nice looking dogs!


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Those are some good looking dogs bubba


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They are good looking pups, from what little I can see the one with the blue collar is my favorite.

Some fine looking pups! Hopefully you can get them on a rank sow off the bat and back them up some


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I’ve thought about starting young dogs in a running pen. What kind of game is in the pen your using?


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A friend of mine has a old coyote pen with hogs inb it.

How open are your plots?

Some are tighter mouth then others but if a dog can smell it and move it, I want him opening. Besides, I like those hogs to know what's coming.

Hey Cajun how are these young guns getting it done and are they all still living ?? I would imagine they have been through what most would consider there first season by now.

Birdslayer, all three of the top pups are making the grade so far. That pup with the blue collar has already cost me 1650.00 on two vet visits. He got gutted on a hoghunt and herniated on the inside of the skin. Normally I would have opened him up to see what the damages were but we got home late and if one of the intestines had been punctured, that is above my pay load. Took to the Vet the next morning and he just had a couple of loops of intestine hanging out but inside the skin. That one was 700.00.  Sent him and the other two up to Wisconsin and he(Chief) got sent back to the Vet. on his 3rd day of hunting.He had 3 broken ribs and a dislocated hip. That one cost me 960.00 While I hate to pay it, that pup was at the tree treeing with that damage and still ran that hog another hour after being gutted. Rip had his shoulder chewed up pretty good but only missed a week and Sassy has had holes in her but nothing to serious. All in all they are doing well for their age. They are  right at 13-14 months of age.

I meant to add, that Chief pup is a littermate to Highwaters dog that is on the catchy side. Those two dogs on the bottom are two year olds and can do it all by there selves.

Hell yea Cajun that sounds awesome other then the vet bills but the rougher style is definitely what you lean to which I believe is staying true to what they are suppose to be. I’ve looked at a few and just haven’t been impressed. A lot of people over look the grit a hound has and think they can’t run one like a silent dog which is just so far from the truth. What they don’t realize is a hound has the lung bottom to see it to the end where a cur type dog will quit it far before a hound would ever even think it. I just want someone’s cull that may not make it in the woods but will in the pen. I’ve been to a plot bay the last couple years in north GA and them boys ought to be ashamed of themselves. I thought being close to places that allow bear hunting it would be impressive and that just hasn’t been the case. Is that what you sent them up north for bear season ??

Birdslayer, it doesn’t matter what breed it is, pen dogs are seldom woods dogs. NOT ALWAYS, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS!! Pens were originally to judge the working style of dogs in the woods, they got away from that many years ago. It happened for several reasons but mainly because the practical style didn’t suit the pen lovers. There are a ton of pen dogs that are pen dogs because they were bred to be pen style dogs or they were woods culls for one reason or another. I remember a VERY prominent Catahoula dog that won tons in the pen and was in lots of peds because of it. Out of the owners mouth “ he’s pretty rascal but he’s as sorry as he is pretty”. He said” he wasn’t worth a nickel in the woods and if he had to work any longer than the 3 minutes (I think that was the bay time), he wouldn’t be any good at that”. “But he shines like new money for that little amount of time”.

Cajun, I hate that your young dog had the hip dislocated. Hopefully it won’t hinder him for a long time. I agree though, you had to spend that money, he did his part for sure.

To me, that drive is what separates hounds and cur types. I don’t know that it’s as much the bottom is different but that the heart and desire is. I might offend somebody here, but I’m gonna say it, the purer dogs are to the cur type, the less you will get from them in the heat or in extreme adversity. I have hunted in lots of places with lots of dogs in my almost 52 years. I have hunt with good dogs of most every breed commonly used for hogs. The dogs that always mashed the gas in adversity, be it heat, injury, etc., were the hounds or dogs that had hound in their back ground. It may a ways back but was still there enough to have influence. Some people don’t want that kind of bottom or drive. They feed them so it’s their business. I personally like it, expect it, and appreciate it. Again, there are some exceptions, that will always be the case in anything. I’m in no way trying to discount or insult ANYONES dogs. The old timers new these things I believe. They used hound way too often to breed back into stale cur types to freshen them back up. Usually the F1’s weren’t their desired result, but after that they started getting back more to the original dogs they had but renewed vigor.


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T-Dog I whole heartedly agree with you about the pen dog woods dog debate and I’m well aware of all that and why Dad owns woods dogs and my daughter owns pro pen dogs. Very very seldom do they excel at both but like you said there is always an exception here and there. In my opinion the good woods dogs that can get it done in the pen often catch out . Hell the #1 pen dog there is right now with several hundred thousand in winning can do both but in my opinion I feel he produces better woods dogs then pen dogs. It just blew my mind the lack of want to from the plot dogs in the pen. Hell we can’t run a 2 dog because the hogs just aren’t up to par at that bay pen but they have a 2 dog plot bay and doesn’t help any. The bays are at 2 minutes for 1st round now but I’ve seen several bay offs eventually pushing 12/15 minutes. The pen dogs are specialist these days and I understand it. First part of next year there will be a woods dog only bay in OK and if it wasn’t a 20hr drive for me I’d damn sure be there as I feel it’s going to be getting back to the old days and the origin of it all and Mr Rusty puts a set of hogs together that are the real deal.

I again agree with you on the hound thing and your right the F1’s are nice but I think when you get them back down to 1/4 that’s where they really start to shine again. If one was serious about it though and not a purest as you have to take the good with the bad when it comes to pure and wanted to make a line you’d be hard pressed to put something together that preformed better then a good game line bred for lung crossed with a true fox pen dog. A 3 day type and then put some cur in them or took it back to the fox pen dog and were real selective about it. Most don’t have the patience to see a 5 to 10 project through and keep there eye on the goal though.

It’s a challenge for sure. It’s also expensive and requires lots of dog space if you’re attempting it solo. As you said, you have to really be selective which means a lot of hunting on a lot of dogs. My family of dogs carry hound but it wasn’t a one time injection. Being selective for what I like has bred the hound percentage down on paper but not in traits. I still get some real good hound qualities in a more cur type conformation. Many of them have that hound color and markings though. My saving Grace has been that some great friends also got on the band wagon and hunt the same dogs which allows us all to trade pups back and forth and collaborate on breedings. We keep and raise what we can hunt fairly. So far it’s worked great.

Cajun, do you have anyone that you work closely with like myself and some of my friends and my nephew do?

I know this can be hard because everyone has a little different flavor about something. I’m my case, with the exception of the Sexsquatch, we all hunt the same kind of country and hogs, issuing the same style. The Sexsquatch lived out here long enough to know and understand our ways, I think he’s still using the same method for the most part in Georgia.


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This is my benchmark in a dog.

When I breed dogs, if they can do it all alone at two years old, to me that is a successful breeding.

They sound like some really nice dogs Mike.

A lot of the old timers down this way would add pointer (English or German), for that little extra go to them. They seemed to tolerate the heat of S. Florida a little better. You have to be carefull because too much and they would be land crocs! lol

T-Dog that awesome you have a small crew that seem to think alike and breed alike. That’s damn hard to come by these days. I’ve tried a few times with my livestock dogs and I’ve been burnt enough it makes it hard to trust these days. I just wanted a pup back but that seems to much to ask but it’s ok for me to drive sometimes 4 hrs and give them a completely trained dog free of charge and never asked for gas money either. I’m working on getting my Florida curs back going after being out for some years. I swore I was retired as most my kids didn’t show much interest if any but now my step daughter is everything a Dad dreams of so I’m back both feet in again. All brakes no gas. In my opinion T-Dog if you have the good traits from the hounds bred into your line and good cast dogs and by cast in my opinion if they aren’t going a mile they aren’t casting you can be above average hunting anywhere in the country with your dogs. No they might not bang straight out the box but a few days hunting somewhere they going to put it together.

Cajun has to T-Dog as I feel he’s producing some damn fine dogs from what I can tell or he has the ability to feed and hunt far more then the average but I also feel he’s more honest with himself them the average dog man as well.

I’m going to have to get your number T-Dog. I’ve got plenty of offers to hunt GA as we seem to make the trip quite often these days with my kids living in SC real close to the northeast corner of GA and some buddies in middle GA. They drive me nuts trying to get me up there on a regular basis to hunt or want me to send my daughter to stay so she can get some hunting in. I’ve actually got some damn good connects in GA these days for being a southwest FL boy.

You’re right Cajun a lot like putting a little pointer in them. In my opinion the only pointer worth feeding is an English haha but I’ve thought about it quite often and the way a pointer hunts and efficiently covers ground I see why one would want to. They have pretty good wind and seems to tolerate quite a bit of temperature differences and recover quite well I think. To me it would have to be some field trial stock you need a horse to hunt behind

Birdslayer, I’m in Texas. I’m right on the the line of being considered central or east Texas. My buddy, Sexsquatch as we call him is in Georgia. He has some nice dogs. He definitely knows what he likes and he definitely doesn’t tolerate anything that doesn’t fit the bill.


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I was listening to the Dixie Doggers podcast today and the guest they had on today done let the secret out and let the world know Mr Cauley has the real deal plotts. Damnit I haven’t even had the chance to get one yet and I bet his phone blows up now. I’m gonna have to get on Mr Joey about what he lets some of his guest talk about.

LOL.....I think that feller is behind the 8 ball on that info man,,,   Thats like saying they just found out Joe Biden lied....  HEHEHE

They’ve been kicking the door down on those Bayou Cajun dogs for a while, from
all over the world I might add.


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I know they are well known but I’ll bet his phone rings more than he wants it to now. The ones that didn’t know damn sure know now.

  The good thing about where we hunt in Wisc. was there was no phone siganl. Zip, nada. If I needed to make a call I would have to head for the highway about 2.0 miles away. Verizon just didnt work out there. Most peacefull 2 1/2 weeks you can spend. Another reason I cannot seem to catch up on pups is I normally keep 1 or 2 and then might give my buddies some when they need them. I have never sold a pup to a hunting buddy and I used to give more away. About 7 or so years ago I gave a young kid that wanted to get started hog hunting 4 pups. A month later they were on FB, Bayou Cajun Plott pups for sale. That will sure put a bad taste in your mouth. All that being said, they are just dogs and I have my share of culls too.

It is so peaceful when you have no cell signal. I recently deleted all social media which wasn’t much to begin with as I didnt have face f&$k (Facebook) and I’m not going to lie yea I miss seeing some posts at times but everyone I truly care about I have there phone number and it’s been the best thing I’ve done in a long long time. The wife even deleted all hers and she’s even made the comment it’s actually truly peaceful. Well duh. Mr Mike those comments are what have given you the success you have had and continue to have with them hounds and what makes you a true dogman. Most people breed to chase a $$ and with you that’s absolutely not the case. Your breeding for your own using purposes and the love of the hound and the betterment of what your breeding to make a difference in the breed. I can absolutely relate to helping a youngster or just someone in general. I own and raise some roosters and I have some livestock guardian dogs that I’ve traveled all over the southeast obtaining that were bred born and raised on rooster yards and I normally buy or get every puppy I can from a litter. I keep what suits me and works cull the ones that just don’t and have raised 1 litter of pups. I’ve driven states away to gift someone a pup or finished dog because they did there job just not the way I liked. My only stipulation was I want a pup back or a pair of pups back. To this day I’ve yet to receive a pup back so I truly have a bad bad taste in my mouth when it comes to these dogs and have a damn hard time trusting someone’s word. To many people today just don’t have the same level of respect and morals I was raised on and don’t take a hand shake as serious as I still do.

Y’all are spot on. My buddy King Smitty and I had this very conversation this morning. I will tell y’all that this man had a litter of pups out of a gyp from my family of dogs. He ASKED me what I thought he should breed her back to. I hooked him up with another friend hunting the same family. When they hit the ground he let them have their pick of the litter. There were only two females which is what I told him I wanted when he asked if I’d like to have one. He was going to give me the second female even though a female was his sole purpose in raising the litter. I declined her of course. I couldn’t have done that to him. Point is, he’s a good hunter, an eager to learn dog man, and an upstanding man. He’s the kind I want in my circle. My old family of bulldogs ran out because I just couldn’t keep the numbers I needed for the breeding program. If I had had the circle I have now they would still be here. I can’t stand to see people do stupid and unfair to quality animals. Hunt them starved, no water or shelter, won’t worm, hunt them without any gear, get them cut all up hunt after hunt and then when the animal has reached a breaking point they get mad and cull it! Nah, not with me. I can’t tolerate it. The same kind of people usually standing there with 5 of them taking pictures or videoing while the dog’s hanging on with all they have. 4 of you put the phone down and help the dogs and you can all watch the one video. Technology is really neat too, you can share the video these days. THEN, they gotta show everyone on every social media site how macho they were. No regard for what might be seen by some tree hugging reader that has zero clue about what they are looking at. SEE, Y’ALL DONE GOT ME UP ON THIS SOAP BOX!


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Since you posted all them nice looking young hounds on here thought I would put ol pork chop on here. I almost cut him few times but he is slowly earning his spot on the yard. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241101/2d0e163ec85ce7a924dfd08a65377023.jpg)


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Good looking young dog Judge.

Thanks


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He’s purdy judge! You need to breed him to a border collie/lab cross. It works great sometimes!


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Well Cajun don’t let some young wannabe ruin us younger crowd for you. We’re few and far between but there is a small crowd of young guys that respect the dog game and are trying to keep it and good stock alive.


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 Yeah Mike I had that happen in times past so now only the folks I know real well get them without buying them and they know it is keep him-kill him- or bring him home, unless its a  mature dog they hunted and made, then I wouldn't feel hard about them selling it.
Another thing I don't like is for the pup not to ever get a chance, but if they bought him then it's not any of my business.

Clue and anyone else in Ok. Hope y'all are ok. Heard about several tornadoes hitting in y'all's area.

For a update on those three pups, they all made the grade. The pup in the blue collar who I had originally named Flint but I changed his name to Chief. He has just had bad luck all the way around. He got shot up there while baying a bear. The hunter was sure all the dogs were in the front and it was so thick he couldn't see Chief right behind the bear. Bear was broadside and the bullet went through and broke his leg. Vet put it back together but we do not know if he will be able to run again.
  Sassy did all you could expect and really shined one day by trailing out a bear and getting it jumped ahead of the young dogs. She ran it 5.77 miles before treeing it. Not bad for a 14 month old pup. And has some 20 year plus old Seman from my old Trapper dog. She came in heat last month and we AI her. She is starting to show so I think she is bred.
  Rip did everything right. Heck of a tree dog, fast and gritty. Wish he had a little more nose, he seems to be just medium nosed.

Cajun what made you select this young gyp to use a straw on?


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  Actually Andy did. I sold Trapper to Andy's Dad way back when because I got hurt and couldn't work for a while. Trapper would be in the top three Plotts I have had in 40 years. Sassy has Trapper and his littermate sister probably 10 or 11 times in her pedigree. She has done exceptionally well from 8 months old when we started her on hogs and continued through bear season. Real catchy dogs normally do not live long on hogs so when she came in heat during kill season Andy brought it up. Andy is a extremely hard bear hunter and knows what he likes in a dog and Sassy fit the bill. Anyway it was a chance to bring that Trapper blood right back in to my breeding program. We will just have to wait and see if it works or not.

Should be some good pups then


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Trapper(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241104/10d239982a16d8bd7f9f0a4b7fafd0f2.jpg)


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He is a handsome fella

That sounds like a great recipe Cajun. I sure hope it works out for y’all. To me, this is the scariest part of using straws from dogs that aren’t around anymore. If it works it was worth the risk and if it doesn’t you are down a straw or two. I feel like y’all definitely did what you could to stack the odds in your favor. Ole Trapper was a good looking hound.


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 Hope the breeding makes the kind for you, sounds as if they can't hardly miss and bringing Trapper back in close will be a good thing.

Thanks for the concern, we didn't get any of the bad storms in our immediate area just a super good 3 day rain that ran the rain gauge over. I feel for those that lost their homes in the storms though, both here and the hurricane. The storms that came through here won't even scratch the surface on the damage and loss of life the hurricane and ensuing floods did down your way. May God be with them.