EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

We are dedicating our time to getting a male pup started good.  The only thing we have discovered is he wants to be the cd too.   SO.,,, I was able to find a boar hog that was about 140 pds and had him coming good to a camera and was hoping he would teach class on this pup so that he might live a little longer than what he is on track for.    Turned him out with another male dog and they found him about 450 yards.   The boar hog done his job and left a love mark on the pups rear end that’ll heal up thankfully.  He left out for the races though and run thru a group of sows I guess and it ended up throwing them off on them.  Maybe the pup knew the difference between genders cause he snatched up one of the sows lol.   

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And maybe it just made him mad, lol.

I’ve never had much luck getting one to back up that didn’t want to.

He will learn. It might take a few cuttings but they generally learn about the boars that mean business.

  You might want to turn him loose by himself just to see what kind of nose he has and generally they will bay by there self.

Plan on doing that this next weekend Mike.   He was running by himself the other day on some shoats and opening so I know he ain’t playin follow the leader only.   


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My experience is that those type of pups will need a light running vest…sounds like he is on his way to become a really good hog dog…

Hunting them alone is the only way ive seen them back up........sounds like he is going to be a nice dog.

There’s an old athletic saying that might help here. It says “fatigue makes cowards of us all”! Maybe let him run to the hunt site instead of riding,lol.

He sounds just like my Outlaw dog. He took some cutting early on and some of them I was worried about. Knock on wood, he seems to have figured out how to size them up, sex them, and where to get to be out of the way. My experience is that dogs that want to MAKE one stay put are almost always gonna be in harms way to some extent. There is a certain distance they understand is to loose to be able to get to the hog if decides to try and leave. When they get in the bad thick, that distance can work against them just as well as the hog. I hold my breath every time we catch one in that stuff but I’m even more proud when he comes out unscathed.


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You know T Dog.    I have never made a thread but always wanted to so that I could learn from other guys how many dogs they have ever owned that had “The Feel”.    I call it that anyway.   That’s the ability for a dog to know just how much pressure each hog would take at a bay.   And too me that measurement varies from hog to hog and from place to place on where the hog is found and where he or she would bay.   It takes a dog to apply the right force at the right time to consistently create bays that in some cases wouldn’t never arise.   Sines got it or learns it  and then some never do.  IMO.


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The light running vest…
Sometimes a gritty dog that has learned to watch itself through experience can still get in a bind…caught between a bank and the hog or in thick brush or too many dogs piling on…one of those scenarios could get the dog killed or crippled for life…the light vest is good protection…it minimizes these issues and the dog learns to respect a toothy hog because the hits hurt and the pokes are small but forceful…
Some rough dogs will eventually get reckless even with experience…

I wish I would always have about 20 of them for Wes to have in the pens.  lol. I don’t think I’ve had 20 in my whole life like that though. 

I understand exactly what y’all are talking about on the pressure applied. I’m gonna call it stock sense. That’s what I think Outlaw has come to understand.  Good working stock dogs know when to put more pressure or less pressure. Dumb dogs can’t usually figure it out and dogs that can’t control their impulses don’t usually get the opportunity to figure it out. To me that kinda how a young dog compares to a teenager. If they make it to adulthood then their brain is able to mature and make better decisions. This same thought process has long been something that I personally consider when starting young dogs. I don’t usually start young dogs on live, uncontrolled hunts until they demonstrate some sort sign that they could deal with adversity. I’ve heard people say well if they can’t take getting cut or beat up and quit then I don’t want them anyway. To each their own, but how many professional champion teenage fighters, in any fighting discipline have you seen? I know from being around game chickens and talking to old pit dog men, that you can start them young and overwhelm them with a bad experience and them be ruined. I know that littermates to those same animals were given time to mature and you couldn’t make them stop. Maturity is a huge part in our dogs and it requires the one thing that probably a high 90’s percentile of us hunters lacks and that’s patience. I’m not saying don’t do anything with them, I’ve had truck loads of dogs that thought they were hog dogs by the time I took them on their first real hunt. Hopefully your young male will figure all this out and maturity will help him stay alive because he sure sounds like a really nice dog.


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I agree with tdog I would say stock sense I seen I get to far away from some these old stock bred cur dogs I lose to much stock sense I ain't knocking hounds in no kinda way plenty people catch plenty of hogs with em we bred hound into some these old cur dogs but I try keep that trait they want to get bayed and keep it there till I get get the thing with most cur dogs I have seen now people have bred the hunt out of em hard to find good lines of straight cur dogs that will get deep looking for one in no sign they out there but hard to get your hands on for sure

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The Feel or Stock sense is a necessity for me in my dogs that's what determines whether they're a hog dog in this line to me or not.The ability to control a hog according to each individual hog and situation.Highwater I'm sure ol Cajun is right about putting him out solo I've seen lots of dogs that'll catch out if a poodle is with em but bay solo.

No doubt man.   There ain’t much Mike ain’t rite about when it comes to dogs. lol.  It a puzzle that we try and put together when we talk about making a good hog dog.  We gotta make as many right decisions as we can and make em at the right time too.


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No doubt man.   There ain’t much Mike ain’t rite about when it comes to dogs. lol.  It a puzzle that we try and put together when we talk about making a good hog dog.  We gotta make as many right decisions as we can and make em at the right time too.

Highwater 100% agree, Cajun is pretty dang sharp and it’s for sure a puzzle. You know, I love talking dogs with knowledgeable people. Nobody has all the answers, there are million different styles and preferences about how to do what we do, but there are a lot of people on here that can teach us or at least teach me things. I love to hear how everyone thinks and their approach. You take three of the smartest most successful people off of here and ask how they would go about doing a particular thing. They may all be very similar answers with a few slight tweaks for one or all of them. You might get three totally different approaches and all of them are right because they’ve been working obviously. You can ask all three to watch a video or hunt with a particular dog(s) and get one common answer about what they see or three different ones because people seem to focus on different aspects or look it with a different perspective. If you see someone that is great at something, you see someone that is passionate about that particular thing. They pour themselves into and become students of it. The knowledge on here allows some of us that want to be great, a tool to get closer to our goal even if we might not have all the tools (smarts in my case) to accomplish it. I hope that people keep sharing and keep asking questions on here.

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  I have been way more wrong then right. lol For sure, I have had way more curs then Plotts that had stock sense but I have had some Plotts that had the touch or feel. Most of my Plotts will make the hog break, they are going to try him and with todays hogs and the pressure that gets put on them those hogs get gone in a heartbeat. They either have to be tough enough to catch and hold them or back up and bay. Seems like my females are better at getting bayed then my males. Some of my males have to be hunted by thereselves. Also a problem I have is trying to bear hunt and hoghunt with the same dogs. Sounds strange but  you do need grittier dogs for bear hunting and I would rather they bay hogs and let the bulldogs do the catching.  At this point in my life, I love a good race and a lot of times we will have a hog bayed with one dog and instead of doing the smart thing which is to head in with a bulldog and catch the hog, we just turn more dogs in to make it break so we can have a race. I know I have gotten off topic but if I had plenty of hogs, I would stay with curs that had that stock sense but where I am we do not have the numbers we used to have and need track dogs. Except for the marsh. Hogs are so easy there even a yellow dog can do it. lol JK

Lol that’s funny Cajun. It’s really honest too. You mentioned that you had three litters out of the same stud, this pup of Highwater’s being out of one of those. You said that your full sibling is also pretty salty. Are the pups from the other two litters as salty? Are the gyps they are out of different as far as grit?


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  The littermate I have to Highwater's pup is pretty gritty and has been cut up a few times already. He has learned to back up on a big hog tho.Those two are out of my Showgirl female. I just consider her average gritty. She will bite one to stop it and back up and bay. she will latch on tho when the bulldog hits. I have a female pup that I call Sassy. She is out of my Trumpet dog. Trumpet is the grittiest Plott on my yard. The only way I have seen her bay is by her self in a thicket. She is almost catchdog rough. She really has thrown nice dogs. My Yellow dog and Tracker are both out of her from different sires. Anyway Sassy is wound about as tight as they come and she really has the grit. My third pup I call Rip. he is out of Auburn. He started out gritty but a couple of minor gashes and he bays nice. The two males have already figured out the relay game and the littermate to Highwaters pup has relayed out twice and caught his own, They were not big, a 15# pig and a 40 # pig but for a 9 month pup, that's not to shabby. Sassy has not figured out that part yet and you just about have to use a break stick to get her off.  All three will go hunting on there own. Still have some trash problems to work out but they will get it.

Sounds like they are all being the way they were bred to be. The more they want to bite the longer it takes to figure out the relaying aspect a lot of times it seems. They are so focused on that particular hog that they aren’t thinking about or paying attention to anything else. My dogs relay pretty quick, sometimes Ava will leave too soon in my opinion. Like the second she sees me she leaves not the second I have the hog under control. It’s ok if the bulldog has something else helping but not if she’s his only help. I like to have to dig those back legs out from under them. It’s easier on me and the catch dog. I try pretty hard when I have those grittier types to assign them to the people hunting with me that whoever doesn’t leg the hog, that the next person should get that pup off first and get it back away from the hog and try and send it with the older dogs if possible or in the direction that the older dogs went. If it comes back, I tie it back away from the hog and keep it quiet until they hear the next bay. It doesn’t usually take long to give them the idea that they can hurry and go find another one to bite.


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Shots fired Cajun, lol!

All in fun WOW. I have cur dog buddies who say they have to pack lunch and dinner when they come hunt with me. lol