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Title: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: lonewolf on November 10, 2009, 05:42:57 pm I took a dog to the vet today and had him tested for heart worms. He tested positive the vet said it was going to cost 500.00 to treat him. Is this the cost that yall have seen and heard about? It seems high, but if I can fix the problem I will. I think I will start testing every new dog as sone as I get it from now on!
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: HogzgoneWild on November 10, 2009, 06:33:38 pm Bud, thats cheap, I had one test positive several years back, and 1200.00 later and treatment was over, the dog still passed though, the vet said that in bad cases the dog still can't make it after the parasites are removed, to many holes in the heart and strain on the dog. If caught soon enough I would definately look into it if you feel your investment is worth it.
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: hogdoggintexas on November 10, 2009, 07:17:21 pm ya alot of times older dogs wont make it. the treatment is very hard on there kidneys and alot of dogs that go thrue the treatment dont live a long life anyway
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Mike on November 10, 2009, 07:50:55 pm Holy $hit!!!!
Y'all need to bring y'all's dogs to the vet Coldspring. I've got one right now that tested "heavy positive"... and no I didn't raise him. Blood work, 6 months of weekly ivomec treatment, that I give, and the dog doesn't hunt for 4 to 6 weeks... less than $150. ;D Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Bryant on November 10, 2009, 08:56:30 pm Mike, Was the Ivomec treatment something the vet recomended? Ivomec is only known to kill heartworm microfilaria (the juvenile stage of the parasite). To my knowledge, there are only two medications available to treat heartworm...Caparsolate and a newer arsenic based product called Immiticide (which has much fewer side effects...for example, no liver or kidney damage) which has become available over the last ten or so years.
Quote referenced from Merck Veterinary Manual: "As far as anyone has shown through scientific studies, ivermectin has little to no effect on adult heartworms. There is a small amount of information that seems suggestive of some effect on lifespan of the worms but this has not been developed to the point that it is clear. If ivermectin does have an effect it probably is to shorten the average length of a heartworm's life from about 3 to 5 years to something like 2 years. At the present time, no one really knows for sure if this happens, or what reduction in lifespan is possible to achieve" Lonewolf, To answer your question, I would say whether or not to treat really depends on the dogs age, and how bad the dog is infected. (any clinical signs). If the dog appears otherwise healthy other than the positive test, the other option is to treat monthly with ivomec to keep any further adult worms from developing and let the present worms run their life cycle and die naturally. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Mike on November 10, 2009, 09:09:54 pm Yes sir Bryant... this is the second dog i've had to treat this way. The first was my Tweety dog... she was a low positive and was clean after a few months.
This dog I have to treat for six months using a 5 to 1 mix of ivermectin and propylene glycol... 1 1/2 cc's every week. I'm not a vet, but Doc Merry's been working on hog dogs for 25 years... I guess she knows a thing or two. ;) Maybe these aren't adult heartworms... i'm not sure what "heavy positive" means? Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Bryant on November 10, 2009, 09:24:46 pm The other thing I find interesting is that you say "the dog was clean after a few months".
ALL currently available heartworm test kits determine infection by testing for cells from the lining of the female heartworm reproductive tract. After a dog has been (successfully) treated, these cells will NOT dissappear from the dogs body for usually up to four months...hence a truly negative dog will still test postive. Usually a clean bill of health cannot be determined for up to six months. If you did indeed cure your dog (which I'm not suggesting you didn't...I'm glad it worked), there is NO scientific data which supports that method and honestly quite a bit which would dispute the theory. One last thing (and sorry to harp...trying to learn). Also as far as I know, all available tests will show positive or negative and there is no way to determine the number of adult worms present. Wonder what she means by "low or high" positive unless that is determined by a combination of postive screening test AND obvious clinical signs? Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: lonewolf on November 10, 2009, 09:30:59 pm The dog is an AB three years old 70+ pounds. He shows no signs of being sick. I noticed he was tiring out sooner then I thought he should on rough hogs, So I had him tested. He appeers to be heathy and happy as long as he gets to catch a hog or two!
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Mike on November 10, 2009, 09:38:48 pm Bryant... I don't know what to tell you, i'm not the vet. Just like everything else I guess... learn from experience and not a book. ;D
She's the vet, graduated from Texas A&M in the 80's and has been working on farm animals, hunting dogs and pets ever since. ;D Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: lonewolf on November 11, 2009, 08:09:15 am I have been told that if they have heart worms and you give them Ivomec it will kill the dog!
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: HDCURS on November 11, 2009, 08:15:30 am only if you give them to much at once
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Circle C on November 11, 2009, 09:32:12 am I had two dog treated for heartworms this past summer(dogs I did not raise). I don't know the details other than, the dog was dropped off at the vet on a Monday, treated and observed (twice I think) then we picked the dog up on Friday. The dog then went to the vet again at 4 weeks for another treatment, then again at 8 weeks for yet another treatment, then went at 12 weeks for a test. After that test, I was told to have the dogs rest for an additional 4 weeks. All together the dog was down for 16 weeks. I believe the treatment was using arsenic, and the final treatment at 8 weeks was using ivomec.
My vet charged a total of $200.00 for the treatment, including all followup appointments. Crosby Vet Clinic Crosby, Tx 281-328-4221 I have a vet friend in Huntsville that charges closer to 1k for the same treatment. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Bryant on November 11, 2009, 10:43:43 am Chris,
According to the regimen you describe, your dog was treated with Immiticide. The final ivomec was to flush microfilaria which may have been in the dogs bloodstream, the same as you would do every month. I have been told that if they have heart worms and you give them Ivomec it will kill the dog! Not true. But ask your vet...don't take my word for it. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Circle C on November 11, 2009, 11:55:47 am Immiticide = arsenic based compound,
I did not know the name of the drug used, but I did recall that it was arsenic. ;D Quote IMMITICIDE® (melarsomine dihydrochloride) Safety for use in breeding animals and lactating or pregnant bitches has not been determined. DIN : ACTIVE INGREDIENT Melarsomine dihydrochloride is an organic arsenical chemotherapeutic agent. Melarsomine has a molecular weight of 501.34 and is chemically designated as 4 – [(4.6-diamino-1, 3. 5- triazon-2-yl) amino] phenyl-dithioarsenite of di (2-aminoethyl), dihydrochloride.DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION and PRECAUTIONS). CONTRAINDICATIONS IMMITICIDE® is contraindicated in dogs with very severe (Class 4) heartworm disease. WARNING Keep this and all medications out of the reach of children. Avoid human exposure. Wash hands thoroughly after use or wear gloves. Potentially irritating to eyes. Rinse eyes with copious amounts of water if exposed. Consult a physician in cases of accidental exposure by any route (dermal, oral, or by injection). NOTE TO VETERINARIAN General: All dogs with heartworm disease are at risk for post-treatment pulmonary thromboembolism (death of worms which may result in fever, weakness, and coughing), though dogs with severe pulmonary arterial disease have an increased risk and may exhibit more severe signs (dyspnea, hemoptysis, right heart failure and possibly death). Dogs should be restricted from light to heavy exercise post-treatment depending on the severity of their heartworm disease. Studies in healthy (heartworm negative) dogs indicate that adverse reactions may occur after the second injection in the series even if no problems were encountered with the first injection. All patients should be closely monitored during treatment and for up to 24 hours after the last injection. Post-treatment mortality due to thromboembolism and/or progression of the underlying disease may occur in 10 to 20% of the Class 3 patients treated with IMMITICIDE® (see Mortality). Special Considerations for Older Dogs: In clinical field trials, dogs 8 years or older experienced more post-treatment depression/ lethargy, anorexia/ inappetence, and vomiting than younger dogs. SAFETY IMMITICIDE® has a very low margin of safety. A single dose of 7.5 mg/kg (3X the recommended dose) can result in pulmonary inflammation, edema, and death. Laboratory Studies: In placebo-controlled laboratory studies, IMMITICIDE® administered at 2.5 mg/kg twice, 24 hours apart, was 90.7% effective against transplanted adult heartworms and 90.8% effective against induced infections of 4 month old (L5) immature heartworms. IMMITICIDE® is provided as: 5 – 50 mg vials of lyophilized melarsomine dihydrochloride with accompanying 5 – 2 mL vials of sterile water for injection U.S.P. Manufactured at: BenVenue Laboratories Inc. Bedford, Ohio 44146 For: Merial Canada, Inc. 500 Boulevard Morgan Baie d’Urfé, Québec H9X 3V1 For customer service, adverse reaction reporting, or for a copy of the MSDS, call 1 888-637-4251. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Mike on November 11, 2009, 12:46:12 pm I talked to the vet's office this morning. While the ivermectin treatment is "old school", it's the only one she uses. The main reason... money. She is a farm vet, most of her customers will not pay that kind of money for the shots to treat heartworms. This method is cheap, she gives you medicine, you do it yourself at home and bring the dog back in six months to be tested again... Bryant, it was six months on my Tweety dog and she was clean. Depending on how bad the infestation, some dogs may take longer than six months to treat. The ivomec only kills the microfilaria, allowing the adult worms to die off. I didn't have time to ask about the test... high or low positive, but next time I see her i'll find out more about that.
My young dog that i'm treating now... is he heavily infested with microfilaria? I don't know... I wouldn't think he's old enough to have an infestation of adult heartworms, he's only 1 1/2. I bought him at nine months old and give the normal ivomec preventative monthly... but that's only a preventative, it's not a high enough dosage to kill the microfilaria already in the system. I'll find out more later. On a side note, I hear about folks spending outrageous amounts of money in these "city vets". If it's not an absolute emergency, find you a good farm vet and make the drive. I've send everyone I know to Dr.Merry. What they would have spent thousands on at their vet... they usually spend a couple of hundred with her. Plus, vets like her have seen and dealt with every hog hunting wound and sickness that you can imagine. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: hogdoggintexas on November 11, 2009, 01:19:47 pm (Wonder what she means by "low or high" positive unless that is determined by a combination of postive screening test AND obvious clinical signs?)
that means how fast the test came back fast= high slow = low thats just how my vet said it Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Bryant on November 11, 2009, 02:24:10 pm Okay, it seems what she's prescribing is what was theorized above concerning the potential that Ivomec may shorten the adult life cycle, while basically keeping the dog from getting worse by killing any present microfilaria.
Microfilaria are the juvenile form of adult worms. Microfilaria will NOT develop into adult worms within the dog they are present in. In order for the life cycle to be completed, and a dog to be infected with adult worms microfilaria must be picked up by a mosquito biting the dog. During the next 10 or so days, the microfilaria mature (in the mosquito) to the infective larval stage. When this mosquito bites another dog, they are deposited. It then takes about six months for the infective microfilaria to develop into adult worms. This process will not happen in a single dog, and will not happen without a mosquito. Presence of microfilaria will not show up on a heartworm test...only adult worms. Ivomec kills both the juvenile and infective stages of microfilaria. Although uncommon, puppies less than a year can be infected with adult worms. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: cantexduck on November 11, 2009, 03:19:50 pm Awesome thread. Alot of good info in the thread.
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: spazhogdog on November 11, 2009, 08:08:56 pm My young dog that i'm treating now... is he heavily infested with microfilaria? I don't know... I wouldn't think he's old enough to have an infestation of adult heartworms, he's only 1 1/2. I bought him at nine months old and give the normal ivomec preventative monthly... but that's only a preventative, it's not a high enough dosage to kill the microfilaria already in the system. How much do you give for preventative vs treatment? Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: lonewolf on November 11, 2009, 08:49:23 pm I took the dog to a vet that I've used before about 25 miles away ( Dr. Mills). He retested and started treatment. He said the whole thing would take a while, But exspected a good recovery. I paid the bill up front 250.00 half what the other vet wanted. I guess know I'll have to wait and see what happens. Thanks for all the advise I really appreciate yall responding when I have trouble it really helps alot!
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Mike on November 11, 2009, 10:42:06 pm How much do you give for preventative vs treatment? For monthly preventative she prescribes: 1cc ivermectin mixed with 9cc's of propylene glycol --- give 1cc of this mix per 40 lbs. Treatment varies per dog... consult your vet. The dog i'm treating now is 12cc's ivermectin mixed with 48cc's of propylene glycol. I'm giving him 1 1/2cc's of this mix per week for six months and then she'll test again. This is based on using the 1% ivermectin for cattle/swine. I've always used it straight by using the 1/10th cc per 10 lbs for preventative and all the dogs i've raised have been heartworm free. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Goatcher on December 08, 2009, 09:49:03 pm I used the ivermectin treatment to rid heartworns in two 3 year old dogs that lived on a marsh and never had heartworm preventive. One was a cur, the other a dogp/American Bulldog cross. When they were given to me they could not run across the yard and coughed all the time.
It took a year, and at treatment time they had hyper sensitivity to their paw pads, acted like they were walking on sharp gravel when actually on smooth concrete. May have been a symptom of ivermectin overdose toxicity. A veterinarian friend of mine said they may lose part of a lung, if they survive at all. they lived and both can run with the best of them today. the bulldog/dogo still has a mild cough that she loses right away and can catch and hold a bad hog and run a half mile and catch another. The cur is a go-yonder type and routinely makes 1-2 mile casts and has run hogs up to 7 miles before they bay up. So I think the lung damages were minimal. the treament cost me $35 for the bottle of swine/cattle ivomec. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Caney Creek Hog Doggers on December 10, 2009, 08:09:22 pm The only thing I have heard about ivermectin killing a dog is if you treat them and still hunt them. I have been told if the dog is not confined in a tight area the heartworms dying out will clog arteries and therefore kill the dog, jmi!!
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: TXTECH22 on December 16, 2009, 05:00:47 pm Mike,
Is the 12cc's ivermectin mixed with 48cc's of propylene glycol an injectible liquid or an oral paste? Thanks, Justin Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Mike on December 16, 2009, 06:38:10 pm Mike, Is the 12cc's ivermectin mixed with 48cc's of propylene glycol an injectible liquid or an oral paste? Thanks, Justin It's liquid, given orally. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: de_moon on December 16, 2009, 07:12:13 pm What is the recommended age to begin heartworm prevention in a pup? I've always started treating pups at about 6 months old.
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: TXTECH22 on December 17, 2009, 03:53:01 pm Thanks
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: miahogger on December 22, 2009, 09:09:02 am I live in mississippi man do we have the mosquitos. I have treated two dogs i bought 1, the other a friedns dog i had the pleasure to hunt while he waz at job.Both test neg now cost 150 for med vet let me keep dog at home saved there . Took about 6 weeks each dogs dont hunt like they did before tho.
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: ocedy on January 11, 2010, 05:29:34 pm Ivimection will kill the larve. The adults will die they can only live for so long. If you do give inverm. keep penned up dont let move around much can dislodge heartworms go in lungs and kill the dog.
Good luck Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: charles on January 13, 2010, 11:26:37 am At what age can you start treating your dogs even though they do not have a + sign for heart worms? I have a 5mth, 15mth and a 16mth i want to get started as a precuation so they dont get any heartworms. The dogs are BMC's if that matters of the breed.
Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: Mike on January 13, 2010, 12:19:58 pm Charles,
I start all my pups at 6 months old on the 1% iveremectin... 1/10 cc per 10 lbs of body weight. Given orally as a monthly preventative. Title: Re: Has anyone treated heart worms? Post by: kull on March 30, 2010, 07:55:39 pm Lonewolf. I need the info to Dr. Mills. i think my old dog has heart worms. I am in Denison.
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