EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Well i have been thinking of this for about the past week, and keep reading post, and have called about a few dogs that have been posted and wanted to know yalls opionon on this topic "FINISHED DOGS." Im going to start this out by saying i have only been hunting a few years, and by no means are my dogs the best in the world. With that said what do yall call or make up a finished dog? Im not highly educated, have a year or so of college behind me, but at 28 years old, i learn something new everyday. Our dogs learn something new every hunt. So what exactly is a FINISHED dog? I see people posting dogs, 1.5-2 year old dogs calling them finshed dogs, think of it like this, that dog is only 10-14 years old in human years. Is a 10-14 yo kid a expert hunter at that age? I have hunted with some dogs, that i thought were GREAT dogs, but do they catch or stop every hog they find? No. I have a ybmc that is a good dog, he is 3.5 yo, i catch hogs with him all the time. By no means is he finshed. Best dog i ever hunted with was owned by a buddy of mine, i have hunted with other dogs in an area and couldn't find anything, and u can go pick ole hide up, and low and behold it's like he made a hog apear in the same area. Was he a finshed dog? No, but he is now, he is finshed 6 ft deep. Many and many of men tried to by that dog for some good money, but money couldn't buy that dog. So what does it take to make a finshed HOG DOG?

WOOHOO cant wait to see these replys  ;D  rolleyes

I'd like to know the answer to this question my self!

 a dog aint finished till its dead, they learn till they die.


Really it means that the owner thinks the dog has reached its max potential. But a finished dog to me might not be a finished dog to you.

I would consider any 6+ year old dog dog "finished" because he knows the deal, and has a routine.

A finished dog may not be a jam up dog.

This ought to be a good one .  Good Luck!

A finished dog may not be a jam up dog.
???????????????????


How is that? ok if a man sells a finshed head or heal horse, does that mean as long as the horse is over 6 years old and u can rope off of him that he is a finshed horse?
Lord i may have a few finished horses and hogs myself and just didn't know it

Personally i don't think a dog is ever finished till he is dead. And people getting on here selling 2 yo finished dogs. I have had the oppurtunity to hunt with some same really good dogs. I hope i have the pleasure of owning a dog half as good as a few my buddy(outlaw) owns. i can't wait to hear his opionon on this subject.

The problem with these dog "terms" is that if you ask a 100 different people you're liable to get a 100 different answers.

I have bay dogs, catch dogs and puppies. When they're through being puppies, they either find and bay hogs or catch hogs. ;D

Ok so finished must mean "really good at what they do" that clears it up.
The best dog i have seen may be a POS to you.
You can't tell me my opinion is wrong jeff.

How people refer to their dogs is a result of their individual expectations.

I think a large number of people are satisfied with a dog simply based on the fact that it can stumble onto a hog every once in a while.  To them, a dog as described might be a "finished dog".

Personally I think throughout a dogs entire life they continue to adapt, learn and change based on experience and situations.  

To me, the only true meaning of finished is when I put a dog in the ground.  Then that dog is truly "finished".

Ok so finished must mean "really good at what they do" that clears it up.
The best dog i have seen may be a POS to you.
You can't tell me my opinion is wrong jeff.



Im not saying ur opionon is wrong i was asking a question? I understand everyone has an opionon, thats why im asking.

The whole 1 year of a dog equals 7 human years is a myth.  If you are supposed to wait for a gyps second cycle to breed her that is acceptable.  It would put her at about 1.5 years, so that means it would be acceptable for 10 y/o to be having babies.  Thats the way it was put to me and it makes sense.

The problem with these dog "terms" is that if you ask a 100 different people you're liable to get a 100 different answers.

I have bay dogs, catch dogs and puppies. When they're through being puppies, they either find and bay hogs or catch hogs.


Totally agree with u Mike.  rolleyes

A dog will nver be finishd b/c they can always improve. That said for the sake of selling a dog to me a finished dog I will pay for means a trash broke, hard huntng & consistanly looking for sighn/track to take dog, that once it finds the hog ha the finesse or ability to keep it bayed most of the time! Due to retards trying to sell finished hog dogs that stumble across hogs?? Thats what trials and garmins are for inmy opinion.

The whole 1 year of a dog equals 7 human years is a myth.  If you are supposed to wait for a gyps second cycle to breed her that is acceptable.  It would put her at about 1.5 years, so that means it would be acceptable for 10 y/o to be having babies.  Thats the way it was put to me and it makes sense.

[/quote]
I think that until around the age of two, the month of a dog is its human yr. For example a 10 month old dog is like a 10 year old kid. JMO

If a "finished dog" is a truly finished dog (6 feet in the ground) I dont think I want one  :laugh:  they probably wouldn't hunt very well anymore. 

On a serious note, a finished dog, in my opinion of coarse, is a dog that is

1. Mentally Mature-dogs can mature at any age, you cant put an age on that whether it is 1 yr, 1.5 yrs, 2 yrs, or 6 yrs.  Some dogs never grow up, kind of like some humans.

2. Finding Hogs-that is on a consistant basis of coarse.

3. Trash Broke-one of the most important factors in being finished in my opinion but it definetly still comes after 1 and 2

4. A dog that works for you-no dog is going to be finished in every aspect of the game and may never be.  My dog probably wouldnt fit your way of hunting exactly and your dog probably wouldnt fit my way of hunting exactly. 


Everyone has different styles of hunting and I think that is what makes this sport so addicting.  You can hunt with dogs a thousand times and go hunting with a different group of guys and dogs on your 1001st hunt and learn a whole new way of executing the game. 

Happy Hunting!

What does the word finished mean? Webster says; Marked by the highest qualty. Another internet dictionary says: 1)highly accomplished, skilled,2) exhibiting a high degree of skill, and (last but not least) 3)having no more use, value, or potential: washed up. So I guess the word finished could mean a lot of defferant things to defferant people. JMO: I think a dog will learn till he's to old to hunt or dead.

In my opinion, a finished dog = a dog that has reached its maximum potential.   In other words, this dog will not get any better than its current status.  Every dog has a different potential that is dictated by its genetics, so some finished dogs will be better than others.  With that being said, I have no idea how to tell if a dog has reached full potential because every dog is different. 

When I say "finished dog" I mean a dog that is over 3 years old , trash broke, and consistently produces hogs no matter where you are hunting or what other dogs you are hunting with..  It's true that a dog just like a human can learn something new everyday but that isn't necessarily going to make him a better hogdog..  A dog can only be as good as his ability and nose and want to will let him.. I'm sure Michael Jordan could learn something new every day for the rest of his life but it wont make him a better basketball player, his age won't allow it.. There comes a time when a dog or human is as good as he is ever gonna be at any certain thing..

Finsihed dog will hunt any way you want and find hogs constintly and never trash. When your other dogs cant seem to find the hogs you go to this dog and drop it and get on hogs, just a hog finding hog hunting machine.  ;D

There is no such thing as a finished dog. There is always room for improvement no matter what dog it is, and any dog can and will let you down.

I am kinda on the fence with this statment, i used to think the same thing but then i started to think a little(Usually where it all goes wrong ;D) that there was a reason people came up with the title FINISHED DOG, and that was to honor a dog that was/is far superior than your average dog and gave the dog the title of finished dog so they knew this dog was better than the real deal. ;) JMO

awww the saga  ;)

Richard,

     How do internet superdogs compare to finished dogs? ;D

 ;D Well Chris you know as good as i do internet superdogs are HARD to come by that is IF your ever get to see them, they stay locked up in a breakin proof kennel that is surrounded by a layer of bullet proof glass, and regular finished hog dogs you can buy those ALL day long in the classifieds and usually are not older than 2 yrs :P ;D

Oh by the way i have a few Internet Super dogs anytime you wanna see em hunt just let me know, i will have some excuss not to go :D ;D

I had a buddy  take a dog one time and he said he was finished. And that was the last time he ever took him. ;D

I think the term "Finished" came from the term "Started" but what is a "started dog"? So basically it comes down to where you think the dog stands as far as your expectations go and everyones expectations differ greatly as you can tell after spending more then a week on this board!  :laugh: Like said earlier in this thread a dog is never finished till it cannot go in or come out of the bush.

I'm pretty sure this arguement as well as most others will never be settled. It's all opinion ...   ;D

Aw man... don't even bring up what a "started" dog is! ;D

Me and Mr. James Davis had that conversation many times.

Awww come on Mike! lets hear JDs version!

i told a friend my plott would finish out in about another year if she keep progressing at the rate shes goin.he asked my other buddy whats he talkin about?shes findin and bayin hogs know.he said his coon dog runs and trees a coon its a finished dog.i dont want any of his dogs.

All good replys but I havent seen the correct answer yet! ;D

If I remember correctly, it starts kinda like this... "What the hell is considered a started dog..." ;D

I need to give ol' JD a call and catch up.

JMO Terms are started and finished

Started=a young dog that is old enough to go to the woods or the pen and bay ( or catch ) where u would take them on a actual hunt

Finished= a dog of varying ages that is good enough to go on a hunt by himself and get the job done no matter what the job task throws at him.
In my opinion they can be as young as 1.5yrs on up that would depend on the amount of hunting that certian dog experiences. Imo if you hunt a young
dog alot like some guys do as much as 2-3 times a week they can possibly be finished at a younger age than most would consider finished. with that said yes they will learn something new on every hunt but all that does is improve a finished dog to be a better hunter that makes our life a little bit easier

so hunt the hell out of the started dogs and give them the experience to become a finished dog

A finished dog is in the eye of the beholder........ Some may say their dogs are finished for the way they hunt but not everyone hunts the same....so in my opinion they are always learning but can be finished in their owners eyes, others will argue...but if they consistently FIND hogs for you then what more could you ask for......and I don't see a right or wrong answer to this question cause they are all opinions for each individual person and style...

I used to think a finished dog was a dog that would bark at a hog, but that was because the first two finished dogs i bought that was all they did :o

well i appreciate the insight on yall theory of a finished dog. I sure would like to have the opportunity to hunt with a finished dog. Id like to see how the potlickers i have match up to a top notch finished hog dog.

Finished dog is like the perfect woman.

  You are going to spend alot finding her, prolly loose some friends over it, will make you do things that you normally wouldnt. But in the end, you will find out that someone somewhere is already tired of her sh it.

 Good luck with buying a finshed dog on the internet. A dog like that will not be sold or if it is then it wont have to be listed on the www for buyers, it would of been bought years before.

Finished means quality, great drive, predictability in hunting style, great ability to find and stop hogs, great bay style and ability to use the correct pressure to hold different types of hogs, great track speed, great raw speed, good handle, smart, no bad habits.....and can do it all when hunted alone. The dog will have no weak spots and can do it all on its own.

That's just how I describe a finished dog, for myself.

Paul,

 What would you call the same dog that lacked the following.

great track speed
great raw speed

Cull

I was half expecting that response. ;)

A dog without raw speed can't outrun cattle and hold them up......thats a cull because he can't do his job.

Slow track speed, well no point in that, it shows a weekness in the genitics.

Paul,

  Would you hold the same set of standards to a hound with regards to the track speed?

Or do you apply the standards comparing apples to apples, cur to cur, hound to hound?

Catchdog=hold on ear and not let go, not fight with other dogs while on hunt, listening constent for the bay if heard.
Baydog= trash broken, respect other dogs bay, easy to handle, just enough pressure on the hog @ bay.
strikedog=dont really know what some people consider a strike dog (grittydog) i guess?
rcd=trash broken, respects other dogs, and catch on ear during chase.
just my opinion on what a fisnished dog should do.

ive been huntin dogs since i was knee high to a bowlegged grasshopper and i n that i dnt have the best dogs in the world,but i have had sum dang gud ones in my time.i also n that there is alot i havent seen r learned yet.the deal on finished dogs is a touchy subject for me.the dogs that i raise and feed and hunt will give me everythang they got r they dont eat my feed.my grandpa taught me a long time ago that a gud dog will eat as much as a bad one will.the thang that i cant understand about people is most not all will try to sell u a bunch of crap and say its the best dog in the world,why cant they just be honest?when i sell a dog to sumone i want that person to be 100 percent happy because trust and respect goes a long ways with me.i wouldnt lower myself to lie about a dog just to sell it ,that crap aint rite.i myself prefer long range dogs but wat ever range u hunt they better be hunting and giving u 110 percent in the wood,if a dog can do that then in my opinion they r hog dogs.with that said if my dogs dnt have the heart to stay with a hog until u catch it or there eyes swell shut and they cant walk then they aint by n means a jam up dog.

I don't run any straight hounds but I run a lot of half bloods (Plott x Catahoula). Yes I hold them to the same standard, why should it ever be OK for a hound to have slow track speed? Thats an honest question. That hound or 1/2 hound should be able to pick that head up and run like hell on a track. Track speed is close to the top of my list.

A finshed dog is a 4 to 5 year old dog that has been hunted hard by someone that knows what they are doing. You can pretty much know what they will do in most situations. To me finished is not how good they are because dogs have different degrees of ability. They can range from culls in some folks eyes to great and all in between. From 4 to 7 or 8 will be their very best years.

A finished dog is a dead dog.......there are always areas EVERY dog can improve on. There is no perfect dog. I have owned good strike dogs (hogs and cows) in the 26 years I have been hunting with dogs but there were always things I thought I wish they would do to make them better. That is strictly my opinion.

The same goes for me..... i have been hunting for a long time, but there is always something I can learn on a hunt, even from someone who has only been hunting a few years.  ;D

I have seen where alot of people and Im not singling anyone in particular out has said there is always somewhere a dog can improve. If you hunt a dog until he is old enough to retire at some point he or she is going to stop improving. In most cases they will begin to fall off a little.

I want a dog to improve until it is retired......once retired it is no longer a "hunting dog"......it then becomes a yard dog/family member.......... If you relate that to people.....your employer doesn't expect you to fall off before you retire....he is paying you to work the same at 64 1/2 as he did the day you were hired......obviously you would hope to have moved up in the company......but you are expected to perform to the best of your ability until you retire. The same with a dog...... I expect a dog to perform to the best of it's ability until I feel it is time to retire it.  Again this is my opinion.......  ;D

If I have a dog that is 4 to 5 years old and is not extremely solid in every phase of his working style on hogs and cattle both, I consider that dog a cull and wonder why I didn't figure it out sooner.

Hey Paul would you check your pms please?409 651 9140 Alan Desormeaux

Pecos if I have any that make it to retirement I hope they get better right up until the end.  As far as me I dont think at 29 Im near what I was 10 years ago! ;D

x2

In most cases you may be correct.....but I have owned an exception to that......I was given a "cull" dog that was 4 yrs old. He didn't impress me the 1st two hunts i took him on.....but the third hunt he clicked....(at 4yrs old) and he got better everytime I took him. He would strike at first but wasn't rough at all, then he got cut bad, after rehab time....I was afraid he wouldn't hunt or would bay off, but he was grittier than he had ever been....he got better until the day he died some 3 yrs later.

I know this is a rare case...but needed to be said

Well at 35 I can't do everything I could at 18....but I sure try like I can........I helped a friend brand and vaccinate some calves a while back (after having an office job for the past 8 yrs or so) and I worked like I was 18 again......but it caught up with me......  ;D

To me the term "Finished" in dog terminology means comleted training at whatever task you desire them to do.If a human is a finished student they have completed their education to the highest level and are now ready to face the task at hand in the real world.For those of you that say a dog is not finished because they never stop learning need to look at it like this,A human can be a finished student at law school and excell in the courtroom just as a finished dog will excell at hog hunting consistently,BUT when he/she has their first child they will have to change lots of diapers(didnt learn that in law school!)uh oh!does this make them not a finished student and excellent lawyer,no!That is something he/or she will learn and adapt to as they go.Same goes for hunting dogs,they are labelled "finished" when the owner/trainer is satisfied they can consistently complete the task at hand and any learning they do after that is a part of life,There are lots of finished dogs out there at 2 yrs of age-I OWN 2 OF THEM!!!!! Any doubters are more than welcome to walk behind them in the woods.Sorry for the rant,jimmy.

I will call you on this one......they have a thing called Continuing Education that EVERY Doctor, Lawyer, Dentist, Chiropractor, Pharmacist, Nurse, Paramedic, EMT, and any other person with a State or National Liscence has to attend because there are always things they weren't taught and new methods of doing things that they need to learn to become BETTER at their profession they have to adapt to their trade and the changes in that trade...A doctor that became a Doctor in 1967 will lose his or her right to practice if their CE's aren't kept up ...so that analogy doesn't work......sorry..... :P

Dogs are not people

So Pecos,if your strike dog that has been finding hogs for you for three years straight,never trashed,and pretty much has a perfect hunt every time is not put in a baypen with a faster hog or a red stag that he may not have ever seen before but you know he would not trash on anyway to "CONTINUE HIS EDUCATION" would you hang up his cut collar and revoke his right to ever hunt again,i think you get my point wether the analogy is void or not.

Well I will give him every opportunity to improve himself in that area...if he doesn't then I won't PERSONALLY call him a "finished" dog ( I don't use that term anyway... I use Strike dog or Pack dog)...but no one said anything about hanging a collar up....I was simply saying that the particular analogy (and I know dogs aren't people...that is why we use analogies to break the conversation down.....) you used didn't fit.....because you were implying that once you get out of Med School or Law School you stop learning things in your profession........and that is an incorrect implication....the diaper thing thrown in there was a tangent to distract from the subject matter....that is an everyday thing a person with a child has to do....and has nothing to do with him adapting as a lawyer or w/e his profession is.....same with dogs.....what that dog does in the pen, yard or wherever it stays in it's everyday life, has nothing to do with the subject matter of being a "finished" HOG DOG......

If he is slow or trashes we will work to fix that problem........I am not trying to argue.....I was just pointing out something.......ya dog has to adapt to surroundings and situations just as a human does........

There is a lot of different types of finished dogs when I say alot by that I mean some peoples standards are not held as high as others and to one man this dog may be a fine finished dog in his mind but to another man that holds his standards  higher the dog ain't worth jack to him so you have two different finished dogs in two different peoples minds thats why there seems to be so many finished dogs around.

To me a dog is a finished dog when he is finished learning again there is a lot of different types of dogs, some dogs will not ever finish learning and seem to get better at something each year of their lives  and then there is some that will stop learning as early as 18 months and that is all he is gonna learn to me those are culls .

When you talk finished dog I figure that is a finished find dog .

Dogs learn in different degrees just as humans do some can seem as smart as humans pick things up and never quit learning  and then some never really learn anything and then there is some that look like they are going to be a great dog  at a early age learns everything put in front of him then all the sudden he just stops learning and never gets any better no matter how old he gets .  These types of dogs if I have not got any use for them then they are culls to me are just help dogs .

To me help dogs are noting more than culls that stopped learning how to be a finished find dog and go to helping  out in the bays and catches  noting more noting less I would never breed to one of these kinds of dogs because all you going to do is water down you genetic make up that will come back to bite you in the butt as time goes on.

I breed to better my dogs so if one of my finished find dogs is lacking anything at all are it needs to be touched up a little I will breed him are her to a dog that has the extreme of what they may be lacking a little of .  You want speed you breed to speed, you want grit you breed to grit , you want nose you breed to nose and so on and so fourth and do it with dogs that comes from lines and lines known for what you might be needing if you do not your just pissing in the wind and it will start to show up a little more and a little more each time you breed one of those  offspring.

Just because a dog is a great great great  dog with little back ground to back him up dont mean jack you are breeding to that dogs genetic makeup and everything behind that dog not just the in the flesh dog you are looking at thats were the tale is told in the long run!

Just because it is a good dog don't mean I myself will breed to it .

JMO

TexasHogDogs



Here is the total anwser that Silverton posted its all that needs to be said and all that can be said if you ask me.


Finished means quality, great drive, predictability in hunting style, great ability to find and stop hogs, great bay style and ability to use the correct pressure to hold different types of hogs, great track speed, great raw speed, good handle, smart, no bad habits.....and can do it all when hunted alone. The dog will have no weak spots and can do it all on its own.

That's just how I describe a finished dog, for myself.

That would describe a "finished" dog.......but how many of you can honestly say you own that dog? In my 26 yrs of hog hunting I have owned some awesome hog dogs and I have owned and worked with some equally awesome cow dogs........but I have NEVER owned that dog............That dog (in it's full definition as stated), doesn't exist......because that dog will never hunt in every environment nor will it hunt every type of hog (thus would not be able to know the correct pressure to apply to different hogs....because every hog is different....) and the list goes on. All of these traits/descriptions are subjective to the owner and situation..........right?

So based on the definition provided....the only "finished" dog out there is one percieved to be finished by it's owner........and if used by another human being may fall short of said definition according to his/her interpretation of said definition.......right?

Oh well...this will go on forever........ ;D

You put it right .  No one answer, everybody is different hunts different in different places and situations.

Every person is of his on mind so how can there be one anwser but in my mind Silverton came about as close as you can come to the perfect finished dog which a lot dont have and may never own but is what we all strive for and maybe some lucky nuff to get .  I will take one that is a little less than silvertons perfect finished definition maybe a bad habit are two and call it finished .  Would he be the perfect finished dog by that definition no but could he be one hell of a hog dog with a  hell of a back ground you bet  I will take them kind of finished dogs all day long.  Perfect no damn great yes .

ahahahahahahah .

I agree 100% this could go on like the lambchop song ;D As long as we are all catching hogs and doing what we love thats all that matters.
To make it fair on all our dogs we will just blame the hogs ha ha,too fast,too tough,too rough,wouldnt stop to fight!

I have not figured this out yet why everybody gets so into all of this about who has the best dog are dogs are what is a really finished find dog and thats what it boils down to in the end a pissing match with no one answer.  I guess when I was younger it might have made a difference I don't quite know but as I have gotten older I have come to realize that the only person my dogs have to please is me and it should be the same for everybody on this board that is why there is no one answer to this.  I know as long as I'm catching and laying down hogs and my dogs are  consistent  with getting hogs caught then I must have some pretty good dogs and the same goes for everyone on the board. If I go to a place and there is hogs I can almost say with certainty they will be found as I'm sure that is with anybody with decent dogs when you can say that with out any hang ups you must  have some good dogs maybe not perfect definition of a dog but damn good ones thats all that matters.  That perfect dog is hard to come by and sometimes never comes by.  I have owned one that I think might be pretty close IMO to that definition and that is it .  Have had many many a great good dog IMO but it don't take a definition perfect finished dog to consistently catch and lay down hogs so until that perfect specimen comes along again what difference does it make and I would think that is how you all should feel also .  Enjoy the game , have fun , try to live right .

TexasHogDogs

When I first started hog hunting me and the guy I was hunting with had some of the most useless dogs you could have. BUT we still caught hogs with those sorry dogs. In todays time where there are so many hogs it dont take that good of a dogs to catch a few hogs. I have learned alot since then and the dogs we hunt today are light years better than the dogs I started with so I find myself enjoying the way the dogs work and hunt alot more these days.

yea since i give you ol traveler  ;D

I think a finished dog and a perfect dog is 2 different things. There is finished dogs out there, some peoples standards just don't mean anything to other folks. Age catches up with us and animals, we can't help we can't continue learning or getting better it's just life.