EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Hello again guys! I came across a few acres up for lease with the stipulation that I put a cow in it! I am completely clueless as to the first thing about a cow but have found a few for sale here. I was wondering if anyone could offer any pointers as to how to or where to start?? The cows I am looking at are tame and can be hand fed, I figured this would make them easier to work with when feeding?? I am mostly looking at this lease for hunting purposes but am gonna need to place at least a cow or 2 on it. Thank you for any advice or help offered!

There are troughs and water on the site already so I shouldn't have to bring in water.

I would get a couple of steers.Unless you are going to raise calves to sell the steers are alot easier to take care of. Where I live it takes about 3 acres per head to run cattle. As for as feed Range cubes a couple of times a week should be good enough to keep them gentel.In the winter some hay and cubes should keep them going.When you get tierd of messing with them put on the trailor and sell them and do it all over again. The land owner wants the cattle on the property to keep the taxs lower under the agg exemption. Let me know if this helps any.

ive got to agree with Rockin-P  id go with steers unless you want to do a cow calf operations, but steers would be the way to go like he said when you get bore with the sale them if not you've got sumthen to put in the frezzer.  one other suggetion if your going to do steers id go to the local market and find what type of steers are bring the best money that way you dont put your self in hole

i on the other hand would not go with steers.  most leases around where i hunt do not allow steers just because they seem to be more distructive.  They only allow registered type cow calf operations.  i would be sure you know all stipulations with the owner.  i have had some people bring in some steers and they tear up fences and the land owner makes them pay for everything, so if your going to buy steers be sure you have some agreement with the land owner on up keep.  it's just my opinion though, and what i know is what i have experinced in my area. 

Thanks for the pointers guys! The property I am looking at is 36 acres and the owner didn't mention why he wanted cattle on it, I actually asked if I could go with a few Mouflon Hybrids but he was very set on the cattle! I will definately check in with him to see if he has a preference as to steer or heifers. Thanks again guys!

? why one or two cows or are you goin to put more than that sounds like he wants ag exemption and if thats the case you need a min of 6 head and if you goɜ with cows id get f1 crosses adapt well raise calves good jmo hope it helps

Well guys I got ahold of the owner and he says he doesn't have a preference of what kind of cow I bring in as long as I've got 3 in the pasture at minimal because his grandfather raised cattle in it and recently passed on so he wants to continue to see cattle in it! I also found out there is a 2 year old Beefmaster/ Shorthorn cross (?) already in the pasture and she comes as part of the deal if I want her. I am completely clueless about these different breeds of cattle but am researching and cramming as much info as I can get in before I make any decisions. This lease has a couple mango and Orange orchards on it and the signs of the pigs are nice and its got me excited but I just have to figure out this cattle situation. I also was wondering about the cow that is already in the pasture, She should produce milk at maturity but what happens if I don't milk her??  :-\

Her calf will do the milking, not you, haha and you will need a bull if you are going to get any calves. Buying young steers/ heifers tend to be a little wild at first and may jump the fence, get sick or other wise cause you some problems if you don't have any cattle experance.

The only cattle experience I've got Silverton is when I take my kids to McD's! ;D Or when I am screaming at my dogs "No cow!"  :laugh: I am contemplating bringing in a few Brahman steers right now and maybe seperating her from the boys to avoid an accident?? I am sure there are a buttload of other variables I have yet to contemplate! lol Thanks for the words of wisdom!

Ummm....Steers will be fine with the cow, they can't breed.

silverton is right, but i strongly say stay away from brahman steers(dang floppy ears are nuts!!!!  >:D). the cow thats out there is a good cross, i personaly raise reg. beefmasters and that make dang good mama cows. the big question is what type of range is it? i wouldn't go wth a full blood brahman but sumthen crossed would work great. if you can find sumone with F1 cows thats put a english type bull with them that would be the way to go cause they make good meat calfs and  you can still make your money at the market

Haha! I told you I was clueless! I thought the steer meant it was a boy! I really don't wanna get into castrating my bulls, I will keep looking around and hopefully come across a few cows for sale on Craigslist as I see a few ads on there quite often! Thanks guys for all the help!

Country man 563-By what does the range look like I am guessing you're asking bout the lot??
 (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g90/bigainaboi/Pasture.jpg)

Go find you some Brahman wild one's and you will hang them hog dogs up and starts chaseing cattle!! No hoe many acres what part of the country of texas is it in!! That will tell you how many cows and what type of cattle you need to put in it!! If you need any help let me know and I will see what I can do!!

Island cattle, I like the sound of that.

Are there a lot of cattle in Hawaii?
   

its good looking pasture land.  depending on where your located at check out southeasttexas.com  theres always cattle for sale on there. stick with the beefmaster cross cattle ;). cward youd really have this man hatein cattle if he got sum brahmans

Yes there are ALOT of cattle here guys! Actually I believe the biggest ranch in the west is here! It's called Parker Ranch and was owned by the Parker family and was alot more connected with the island residents but since has become exclusive if "you're in". They have a website and they offer a few guided hunts but it is WAY outta my wallet range and I live here so I know where the wild ones are!  :laugh: We have a few wild cattle that escaped or were let to run free but the season on them is speradic (sp) and can be exclusive at times. They are very aggressive also and I definately would have to call up a few friends if I wanted to try and rope one move it! lol That actually sounds like an island boy adventure! lol

Cward it is 37 acres  and full of hog trails and also a few european goats on the bottom side! I may have to start practicing with my bow again!

ho o o ly cow , i hope i'm not the only one thats lost here . big a , your in hawaii ,right?

Sorry did not know you were in hawaii !! Would not know anything about that country!!Heck I thought Hawaii was only about 37 acres total!!LOL  ;D

 :laugh: Yup I am from the Big Island of Hawaii (The island of Hawaii). The state of Hawaii consists of 8 major islands with 1 belonging to a single family and the another was used by the U.S. as a bombing target and given back to the state a few years back but still to this day is pretty barren except for unexploded ordinances!  >:( 7 of the 8 islands have hogs on them but if you ask me I believe the Big island has the most variety as far as colors go.

Breed is not so important, just find out what most people run in your area and thats a good place to start.  Although being tropical I'd say something with Brahman in it is a good way to go.  More important is functionality.  If you are wanting momma cows the most important thing in my opinion is to have a cow that is femenine.  Cows that look like bulls or steers are always culls in my opinion.  She should have a feminine head, wide hips with shoulders narrower than hips, lean muscle and not bulky like a bull.  3-5 cows on 36 acres should be good in a tropical inviroment (that is green almost year round i think?).  At that rate you should not have to feed them much.  Momma cows would be your best bet in my opinion but your only problem would be getting them bred you could barrow a bull or buy your own and run it on them year round.  But a good blooded bull will be expensive to buy 1500-2500$ is a fair price around here for a good but but it will be hard to keep him happy with only a few cows.  He might tearn into the neigbors to find some other cows.  You could buy an older bull that has lost his hussle but still has enough in him to cover a hand full of cows and would be cheaper.  All I can say is don't buy junk because having a sorry cow is worse than having a sorry dog.

As far as care goes.  All cattle really need is grass and water for basic survival.  A salt/mineral supliment is also very important to keep them in good health.  Regular deworming with Ivomec (for example) is also a good idea.  Vaccinating the calves when they are young for what ever viruses are common on the Islands is also something that needs to be done, because they will most likely get sic if you dont. A feed store employee should help you find out what is apropraite for that climate and what is most often used by others.  Also its best to wean the calves when the reach 6-8 months old or around 500-600 lbs or if they start to draw the momma cow down too much.  In your case weaning would most likely involve hualing them to a local auction.  You will also need some sort of pen to work them in for worming and vaccinations ect.  Most cows in Texas calve between Jan and April and the calves are weaned in the fall.  Thats just the basics.

Waylon

Thats very good info Waylon! Thank you!
 I am sorry guys my info on Parker Ranch was wrong, It is the 2nd biggest ranch in the U.S. at 225,000 acres after King Ranch in Texas at 825,000 acres!

I've got an uncle who has a few cattle and horses that I will give a call to and see what he tells me. I was trying leave him out of this but I believe I am at the point where I will just have to tighten my belt and see what he says!  :laugh: Maybe I can talk him into leaving a few of his cows in my pasture and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I really wanted to do my own thing but the deeper I look into this the more I think it would be smarter to start off with someone more experienced to help me out. The lease I am signing is quite a long term lease so I will more then likely get my own head in there at a later point. Thank you everyone for all the input and advice. I will keep everyone updated on how it goes! I am gonna be having dinner with the owner and his family tommorow night and I am pretty ready to get my name on it and start working it!

Good deal......this topic stirred my intrest about Hawiaian ranching and I searched it and the Parker ranch.  From what I can tell they run mostly Hereford/ Angus cross cattle ("black baldies").  Also they have had cattle ranching there in Hawaii a long time which is very cool but they calimed to have cowboys longer than Texas ??? ;D  I'm not too sure about that one. lol.  I also found a ranch rodeo event that they do out there and would like to know what its called. Basically one man ropes a steer and pulls him through the fork of a big forked pole and snubs him up to the pole with a head rope like  you would snub one up to a tree.  If you know or could find out what thats called over there I would definately appreciate it.  I saw a video of that event on youtube and they said the name of it but I dont speak hawaian so I did'nt understant a bit of it. haha.

Waylon

Not the 2nd either, Deseret Ranch in Fl is 300,000 acres.

Waylon if you could post the video or spell it for me so I could find it.

SFboarbuster- If I could own a quarter of Parker Ranch I would be happy!  :laugh: But no I have to stick to leasing the lot I've got now! One day I will buy myself a lot!

Po’o Wai U
This event is found uniquely at Hawaiian Rodeos and has evolved from when cowboys would rope wild cattle in the mountains and tie them up so that they could continue to gather more cows and later lead them to their pasture. This event requires the contestant to rope a steer and get him to a Y shaped post (called an amana) placed in the middle of the arena. Once the steer is roped the cowboy pulls the animal close to the Y and he flips his rope into the Y, the steer is held tight to the Y by the horse and then the cowboy dismounts and ties the animal with another rope up close to the Y post. This is a timed event.

Po'o in Hawaiian means head and Wai would be water so my guess as far as translation would be water head?? I will ask my uncle tommorow when I see him and will get back if my translation is wrong or if I can get more better information from him.

Thanks........Cowboys everywhere have done that for ages but, it is neat that they made it a rodeo event in hawaii.  If you tie a cow like that and they can stand there for a long time without being injured, compared to tying one down which is only good for a short while.

Waylon

My favorite event at the rodeos is Double mugging! I have tried it on a few occasions but am not near where a few of the ol timers are! They've got the technique down to a science and they make it look like the cow just rolls over for them! It definately is fun though to try!

Well guys I went through with it and got the lease and got bored today and decided I would make a quick cruise through with my one out Bull. We we're in alot of sign when I noticed a herd of goats settled down in a Kipuka (hole) with the matriarch nanny at her post I then noticed she startled and started blowing. We were definately upwind of her as I could smell the herd very strongly when I herd a puppy bark and from the hills behind it came a pack of wild dogs! Wild dogs are becoming a problem here in Hawaii as alot of guys are getting into hog hunting and using untrained dogs and leaving them. The herd of goats split and the dogs gave chase but never caught one as far as I kept an eye on them. I have 6 cows that are gonna be on this property come next week wednesday so I called up my uncle and let him know I had seen a few dogs chasing some goats and then called an old friend from the animal shelter and rented 3 traps to set up. So our quick trip got ruined but we got to see some excitement so it wasn't a total waste! I hope to get a few of these dogs caught and off the property. Todays pack looked like kelpie/Bulls (just a guess). My Pitbull is extremely anti social and would have loved to play but it happened so fast and unexpected that I kinda just stood there amazed as I watched (Kinda cheering for the dogs but then again not  :laugh: ) I will be back up there tommoror to see if I can figure out where they're living at, According to the owner ther are no wild dogs on the property so I will bring a camera with me tommorow!  :D

Are you allowed to shoot the dogs?

That was my first thought Sfboarbuster! I believe I am but am not to sure on the specifics.

Waggoner Ranch is 535,000 acres and four sixes is 300,000+

 :laugh: Don't let Parker Ranch find this out! Their claim to being the biggest has brought them alot of money over the years!! Really though thanks for the information guys, I always thought it was the biggest but I guess it isn't even close!

While I am on this thread!

Update on the dogs: I ended back up there to get my dogs after the tsunami scare so figured I would check traps and let the dogs go for a quick run. I ended up catching 3 dogs in the traps and from what I saw the other day have 3 and 2 puppies left roaming so I set back up the traps and hope to have them off the property soon! I haven't been able to run the whole  property yet as I have been dealing with these dogs but I will be up there pretty often for the next coupe weeks. As far as shooting the dogs it is a no go in Hawaii! I have to trap them and turnt hem into the shelter but for some reason the ones I caught yesterday dissappeared!  :laugh:

Post up some pics of the place