EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

went hunting this morning with my 9 year old son and his friend,we turned the dogs lose and it was not long until they found a pig they ran it into a mans yard and caught it, the land owner shot both of my dogs before I could get there. His property buts up against my hunting club. Any one ever had this happen.

WHAT THAT MAN DID IS ILLEAGAL,NOT TO MENTION BS BECAUSE YOUR YOUR YOUNGUNS WERE THERE. YOU WERE IN PURSUIT . FILE CHARGES ON HIM IF HE WANT DO WHAT IS RIGHT,IF NOT A HARD HEAD MAKES A SOFT A$$

Dammit son... I'd definitely like to see what the law had to say about that...   be real hard to stay cool in that situation....

I'm sorry.

Please file charges. In the state of texas, it is illegal to shoot a trespassing dog unless it is actively attacking domestic livestock (deer and hogs don't count) or the land owner feared for his safety.

You have your boys as witnesses that the dogs were on a hog? File charges.

Cheers
M

Like already said, file charges on him. And if your a member of the TDHA they will help you out. Sorry for this happening to you. I dont think I'd been able to keep my cool when it came to that.

X2. file charges. who else agrees he should file charges?

Karma is a bitch, just remember that, and sometimes you have to help Karma out...get my drift...eye for an eye...my .02

if people keep letting people get away with shooting dogs they will keep doing it. make an example of him.

and keep us updated on the outcome

Exactly.

I vote to file charges... atleast all in that area will be aware and your dogs wont get shot again.

Yes, but the way to deal with this is through the legal system. As much as you would want to exact your own justice on this guy, just let the law handle the situation. It isn't worth going to jail over, and people already want us to look like uneducated hicks. Prove that we are upstanding citizens and deal with this matter legally. There are laws on the books just for this situation.

Cheers
M

Man that guy realy must like hogs tearing up his
land to shoot 1 much less 2 dogs I hope he get his

If you live in TX, you best get on the phone with the Sheriff and an attorney!

If you do not live in TX, I have no idea what your legal recourse is.

Steve

Definately file charges.  You need to contact the law as soon as you can to file a report while the event is fresh in your mind.  Keep us posted as well.

YES SIR FILE CHARGES MAKE IT WELL KNOWN YOU WILL PROTECT YOUR INTEREST.YOU DIG IN A MANS WALLET DEEP ENOUGH HIS WIFE WILL STRAIGHTEN HIM OUT AND/OR TAKE WHATS LEFT ,DONT ACT LIKE HIM YOU ARE A BETTER PERSON

thanks for all the replies and info.

Shane, I will give you some advise. Some of what has been posted here is incorrect. Feral hogs in the state of Texas are now considered "exotic livestock". Exotic livestock belongs to the person who's land it is standing on. So at the time your dogs were shot they were caught on a hog that was owned by the man that shot them. It is "not" against the law to shoot dogs that are in the act of attacking livestock or exotic livestock.

I am unhappy that this is the law, but you need to know.

You should contact law enforcement to make a report and also contact an attorney. There is always more to the story than can be posted here, so go forward with contacting local law enforcement and keep us updated. Feel free to send me a PM with anything I can help you with.

Thanks,
Paul T

SUBCHAPTER B. DOGS AND COYOTES THAT ARE A DANGER TO ANIMALS



Sec. 822.011.  DEFINITIONS.  In this subchapter:

(1)  "Dog or coyote" includes a crossbreed between a dog and a coyote.

(2)  "Livestock" includes exotic livestock as defined by Section 161.001, Agriculture Code.



Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.





Sec. 822.012.  CERTAIN DOGS AND COYOTES PROHIBITED FROM RUNNING AT LARGE; CRIMINAL PENALTY.  (a)  The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that the owner, keeper, or person knows is accustomed to run, worry, or kill livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may not permit the dog or coyote to run at large.

(b)  A person who violates this section commits an offense. An offense under this subsection is punishable by a fine of not more than $100.

(c)  Each time a dog or coyote runs at large in violation of this section constitutes a separate offense.



Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Renumbered from Health & Safety Code Sec. 822.011 and amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.





Sec. 822.013.  DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS.  (a)  A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:

(1)  any person witnessing the attack; or

(2)  the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.

(b)  A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.

(c)  A person who discovers on the person's property a dog or coyote known or suspected of having killed livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may detain or impound the dog or coyote and return it to its owner or deliver the dog or coyote to the local animal control authority. The owner of the dog or coyote is liable for all costs incurred in the capture and care of the dog or coyote and all damage done by the dog or coyote.

(d)  The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that is known to have attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls shall control the dog or coyote in a manner approved by the local animal control authority.

(e)  A person is not required to acquire a hunting license under Section 42.002, Parks and Wildlife Code, to kill a dog or coyote under this section.



Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Renumbered from Health & Safety Code Sec. 822.033 and amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

sorry to hear about your dogs. I would been in jail. good thing you have some controll. i have had this happen to some rabbit dogs before. almost made me want to give up hunting. its a shame when someone has nothing better in life to do but to try and make someone feel bad by shooting a hunting dog. as you can see he is not worth the air he breaths. it was a time I would have said an eye for an eye, but not now. I will say this i hope he lives a long life. with out his good health. That will be more pain to him than anything else. please explain to those kids that everyone is not like that.

God Bless
ced

im really sorry to hear about that and how did you keep your cool i know i wouldnt have

man that sucks.  i dont live in texas but in florida hogs are the property of the person who owns the piece of dirt they are standing on.  that being said it is not illegal to kill a dog on a hog if its on your property.  I would definately call your state attorney's office and speak with a prosecuting attorney as far as criminal charges go.  i would also contact a personal attorney, also if you sue you need damages so figure up how much youve spent on feed apiece for the duration you had the animals as well as shots, and any monies spent.  your probably better off in civil court than criminal court.  and whatever you do dont do anything stupid it will ruin any standing you have.

anyone have shanes number i have some ? for him thanks

I have to say again, thanks for all the support,kind words,and legal info.It all has been a great help.I have a few friends that Iam going through that are law men ,so I should be able to get to the end of this in the next little while.I really don't know as of yet if there is any thing that can be done.

Paul, I agree that preliminary interpretation of the amended exotic stock classification is both daunting and contradictory to our cause, putting our dogs in the crosshairs. I would also like to point out however, that there is not yet a precedent solidifying our "common sense" interpretation.

The only thing actually changed was the classification of swine. Almost undoubtedly the objective of that change was not so that land owners could shoot hog dogs. Maybe its time for the Judicial system to interpret its own law, the original goal, and its unintended ramifications.   

Steve

Mandi, Free roaming exotic livestock belongs to the land owner where it is standing unless it is tagged. If it is tagged then it is handled under the estray laws. Un marked feral hogs can be taken on any property that you have permission to hunt.

So is it or is it not unlawful to tag and release a hog? I'm not talking about ethics here, I'm just trying to understand exactly what this classification means. I have always been under the impression that it is illegal to release a trapped hog - marked or not. However, I don't believe that's the case with exotic livestock such as Axis Deer.

Can you provide any input on this?
Cheers
M

hogdoggerdude14, I am deaply sorry for your loss and I know exactly how you feel. I was tracking my dog about 10 or 12 years ago and a man called me from his deer stand(it was not deer season) and asked me if I was missing a dog. I told him I was on my way to him that I am tracking him on our next door neighbors land that borders our land and I was calling the land owner now. He said "I got him just come on down the ridaway and get him. I walked up about 50yrds away, he climbed down from the deer stand, shot my dog right in front of me and told me that he pays too much money to deer hunt to have a dog running his hogs down the ridaway. I had to pick my dog up with his brains blowed out and carry him with the man following me all the way back to my fence line(Grown men cry just to let ya know, especially when it was one of my best dogs). I imediately called the land owner and the land owner and I pressed charges and till this day I don't think anything was done to him. Sorry for your loss!

I never  heard that story Ric....that is crazy....how in the world did you keep your cool?

He had a gun! and was madder than me! That was "Chance" my three legged dog that everyone always talks about winning all those baying contest with. Like ta killed me!

I would have a real issue with that. Shooting a dog in Texas is considered Animal Cruelty, and is a felony (except in two instances). I have never heard of a more blatant act of animal cruelty as well as hunter harassment than the act you just described. Ron Branyon probably wasn't on the BOD of TDHA then, but he has been foaming at the mouth for the right case of dog shooting to publicize and set a precedent. It needs to be a blatant act, well documented with evidence, a hunter who was doing everything right as far as retrieval (phone calls, etc - not just trespassing) and dog not doing anything wrong. Your dog being on a leash or rope when they guy shot him and you being there as a witness would have made for a most excellent case. I hate to hear of anyone getting their dog shot, it could be my dogs next.

Perhaps Ron will post up his theory on publicizing dog shooting cases, and what he feels needs to be done to help these dog shooters get convicted. It is a very good idea Ron, please post.

Cheers
M

Mandi, If a hog is released on a game ranch it will have an ear tag with a identification number (TAHC Rules regulate this). If that hog escapes it will be treated as an estray. Same deal on an Axis, if it is on the neighbors it belongs to the neighbor, unless it has an ear tag.

I talked to my law officials today and they said it is animal cruelty only when a person shoots a dog  without a cause but when the land owner claims endangerment there is really nothing you can do but spend alot of time and money and get no where.also they said if the pig is on the mans property then  legally he can say it is his pig,so its like a cat chasing  its own tail.

As I stated in an earlier post it should be an eye for an eye. Right or wrong the law is not going to help you, there are too many loopholes. Make the ba$tard pay and then hell think twice next time, I promise you.