EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136906

It looks like we may have our first application of law resulting from the 81st legislatures reclassification of feral hogs as exotic stock..... Granted, there were several laws broken here, not the least of which is trespass. People are not normally arrested for simple trespass though and this guy was apparently arrested for perusing exotic stock on state land. I don't know about Y'all but the potential here gives me pause!

Steve

Steve, I hope you will continue to voice your concerns about matters such as these, reguardless if appears that anybody is listening or not.

i definitely think some of them are missing the fact that in the title the guy states he retrieved his dogs/hog.  if he was going to retrieve his dogs he should have never dispatched the hog without prior permission.  he should have waited them out or tried to call em off.  

I think you're right in your line of thinking Steve.  I think there needs to be more written on the books to work this "change" into our favor.  I think this could be a GOOD project in the future.  I really feel they used this to tag on more offenses to hit him in the pocket a little more hoping to curtail his actions.

Anyone ever tried to hold the state/county responsible if you hit a hog on the road?  It belongs to them right?

that'd be a good one.  i bet it'll be coming before too long though, but i'm sure it'll get dismissed.  i wonder if the state could counter on say a Farm to Market road.  just like a rancher could sue for hitting a cow.  livestock has the right of way on Farm to Market. 

If you have not been on this site before...you are going to get pissed when you read the responses. It is full of idiots and anti doggers.

x2

yea i could tell it was no place for me

Steve....Do you know when they were first classified as Exotic livestock.  I was under the impression that they have been classified as exotic livestock for a good many years now.  Actually I assumed they had always been classified that way.  And I know for sure they have been classified as such for atleast 4-5 years.

Like you, I believe the reason being is to take the burden on hog population control away from the state.  The second the hog comes into the farmers field and starts eating it belongs to the farmer and is his porblem to deal with.  Its a squirly way to do business, but it IS government after all.  Also, I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing because it also allows a farmer to kill the hogs in his crops at will and prohibits a tree hugging landowner next door from claiming they are his livestock and saying the farmer killed his livestock.  Just about every farmer I know is the type of person who takes care of them selfs anyway and that classification allows them to.  It also allows hog hunters more freedom when hunting hogs on places they have permission.   I can definately see your concerns about loosing hog dog protection by animal cruelty laws because of this classifcation as exotic livestock but again im pretty sure this classifcation is not a recent one, its been around several years atleast.  Although, I need to do some looking around to find out exactly when it became as such.  Also.....I don't think the animal cruelty law give hog dogs much protection in the first place because we all know it is very hard to prosecute someone for shooting your dogs anyway.  All they have to do is claim the dog attacked thier domestic livestock or threatened them.  The other option is having them classified as game animals in which case the state will be responsible for them....it dont think this will happen in my lifetime and dont want to see it happen because with that comes seasons, tags, hogs stamps, no telling what which I dont think should be neccary for hog hunting.  OR you could classify them as domestic livestock, which would cause all sorts of conflict between neighboring land owners, and landowners and the state ect.....as the state is well aware.  I just dont think there is any other option than classifying them as exotic livestock.

Ofcorse as the law reads....if you mark a hog with a mark that is registerd in your name then don't you (by the letter of the law) own that hog?.... and subsequently own the responsiblity of controling it and can be held responsible for damage it may do to someones crops.  But does that also mean you can sue a deer hunter for shooting your hog if it happens?  Something to think about.

Waylon

The way I read this you could very well claim ownership of a hog and be subject to the rights AND responsibilities that come with that.  Although like most everything else allot could be left up to interpretation.

Sec. 142.0021.  OWNERSHIP OF EXOTIC WILDLIFE AND FOWL.  A person may claim to be the owner of exotic livestock or exotic fowl under this chapter only if the animal is tagged, branded, banded, or marked in another conspicuous manner that can be read or identified from a long distance and that identifies the animal as being the property of the claimant.



Steve  here is something else to think about.....The way this below reads to me is......"The term" (exotic livestock) does not apply to a hog (which is a nonindigenous mammal) that is "located on publicily owned land".  IE a state park.

"Exotic livestock" means grass-eating or plant-eating, single-hooved or cloven-hooved mammals that are not indigenous to this state and are known as ungulates, including animals from the swine, horse, tapir, rhinoceros, elephant, deer, and antelope families but not including a mammal defined by Section 63.001, Parks and Wildlife Code, as a game animal, or by Section 71.001, Parks and Wildlife Code, as a fur-bearing animal, or any other indigenous mammal regulated by the Parks and Wildlife Department as an endangered or threatened species. The term does not include a nonindigenous mammal located on publicly owned land.

Waylon

You would have to prove they neglected some thing.

First that thread was started in like 07

second the guy got in trouble for hunting state land

Really that has nothing to do with a hog being or not being exotic livestock

TxMav, That thread was started today at 11:00.

Waylon,

No, hogs have only been classified as exotic stock since this September.

Marked hogs have always been considered free range stock, ownership of the mark indicating ownership of the hog, no matter where it was.

Unmarked hogs have traditionally been non-indigenous or exotic wildlife, owned but not regulated by the state, just like any other wildlife.

Now, as exotic stock, the implication is that they belong to the person whose land they are on, weather they want the responsibility or not! Only time and a precedent setting case will tell for sure but they are apparently already being treated that way by some LEOs.

Steve I have to dissagree with you I wrote a paper for college in 2006 and they were considered exotic livestock at the time I was researching that paper.

Waylon

then the link i got must be wrong it is showing dates like 07 and 06

and the story i see is like 3rd hand about a guy caught going on to state land that is the problem not killing a hog regardless of what it is considered at least that is the thread i see

All I can say is wow, after reading that thread I was ready to choke someone.  It is safe to assume that many of those guys have never had a hunting or working dog.  For those of us that do we need to get out of the brush and make sure our voice is heard.  This is crazy, I dont purposely trespass but I do go get my dogs and will continue to.  If there are consequences I will deal with those as they arise, but for these guys to assume that just because they see a dog it means they are running there beloved deer off is rediculous.  I have a feeder up at my house, about 100 yds from my kennels and my house. Completely open not in the brush.  Deer come out, puppies raise hell, I shock and hollar at puppies on my back porch, Deer just keep on eating corn.  This is definately something we all need to concern ourselves with if we want to keep running our dogs.

When hunting, a wild animal belongs to everyone until it is "mortally wounded" and then it is property of the person that "mortally wounded" the wild animal. Dogs in pursuit or even if the animal is cornered in a well (an actual case) it is not mortally wounded. The problem you get into is where the animal is located when it becomes mortally wounded. You must have permission from the land owner or land owner's agent to remove hogs or to hunt anything. Once your dogs leave the area you have permission to hunt it becomes dog recovery only! If you shot the animal "mortally wounded" then it is recovery and then you can call the game warden to assist to avoid trouble. But if the dogs are chasing the dog the pig is safe. It is like the old Duke's of Hazard. The Duke boys ran as fast as they could to get across the county line because the sheriff could not cross the line. But you are chasing Boss Hogg and when he crosses the line it is game over, call off the dogs or you can go to jail. It is all about knowing the rules and if you break them take the penalty and go to the next play. If an animal is near federal land or even state land there is no way I cross that line. A little into the neighbor's property maybe but public land is bad news that is why I do not even hunt there when it is legal. There are just too many little rules with big punishments for me.

i see deer crossing signs everywhere but i have never seen a hog crossing sign  rolleyes

Most the guys on that thread are prolly city boys that take 43 guns with them to go hunting for anything becuase it makes them feel MOCHO, and then go back and drive there Mazda Miata convertiables during the week.. And i know for a fact some of them are cause i meet them rolleyes

Richard,

   I am afraid to ask why you might be meeting guys that drive Mazda Miata's :o

 :D I wanted to see what it was like, but i VERY quickly went back to being redneck ;D