EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I've always said someday I'd like to have a pack of hounds for certain situations... When I see that 6hr old monster track, or a bear/panther crosses paths, it would be nice to be able to do something with it.  The fact of the matter is, however, I really don't know much about them other than the few I've hunted behind.  One thing always strikes me about using hounds on hogs.... and that is, most hounds are just too slow(reaction wise).  Put one in a bay pen and you can just see the future cuts ;D  It seems that hounds take way more damage than curs do, or maybe I've just been around reject dogs ;)

The only "quality" hounds I've seen work are a bunch of dogs that came out of New Mexico.  Big cat/bear dogs that were brought over here to bear hunt.  This guy's thing is bear but every once in a while, he'll throw 'em on a big hog track and burn one.  VERY impressive dogs.  B&T's, Walkers, Treeing Walkers, Blueticks, Redbones....you name it, he runs it...and they are all built exactly the same.  What I would describe as "classic" big game hound type.  Large dogs, deep chested, cat feet, and long legged.   If you could take the color off these dogs, you'd never be able to tell them apart.

He tends to use his "less gritty" dogs, as most of the hardcore bear dogs will just get filleted.... which I've seen numerous times when they've trashed on a boar during a bear race.  He also tends to use one "start dog" then pack to him, usually 4-5 at a time.  Follow the race, pull dogs off, put more in... until we finally have a bay.  Definitely an effective style when you've got the property, and the time.

A buddy of mine has some "Cameron" blueticks that I wouldn't give $10 for ;D  They are supposed to be straight up nuts big gamers, but have amounted to nothing more than ok coon dogs.... which makes me leery of supposed "big name" hounds...

Occasionally I hunt large pieces that would fit this style of dog...but, I'm just not sure what other "type" of hound is out there.  I know I can get some of these NM dogs($500 and up), but I'd rather get pups.  Any of yall have any practical  big game hound experience?

noah look in the back of some old western horseman mags, under guest ranches , find the muleshoe around prescott az. stephen nesham has a cow calf outfit and guides lion hunts he might have some pups...... when you get em started good give me a call in the evening, ill be there in the mornin with the beer. ha ha ha

Noah,

Are you familiar with Plott hounds?  In my opinion, and as a generalized statement I think there is no breed beter suited for hog hunting than a Plott.  The breed was originally bred for boar hunting in Germany and was brought to the states by the Plott family (Jonathon).  In the US, they used these dogs mainly on bear because there were no wild boars in the country.  It is noted in history, that for thirty years after being imported there was never an outcross made.  When the breed became recognized by the UKC in 1946, there was much discussion and argument on whether the breed should be classified as a hound or cur breed.  The Plott is also the only breed out of the six UKC recognized coonhound breeds that does not trace ancestory to the foxhound.

i know there are a lot of july and goodman hounds used on coyotes up north.  not as big as the coonhounds i think, pretty fast.  really a different sort of dog. 

http://www.geocities.com/julyhounds/index.html

http://www.angelfire.com/in/CalicoCoyoteHounds/page2.html

i  had a friend, who moved here from tennesse. hunted bears in the smokie mountains. he would tell stories of the dogs he hunted. all of the dogs he hunted with were plott hounds.
he would say out of all the dogs he hunted, plotts were the best on big game. bears and such.

JDT... I like the way you think ;D

Bryant, CaptJack, I've hunted with quite a variety of Plotts and have not found any consistency that stands out.  The guy with the NM dogs had some great ones, but no better than the other breeds he ran.

What I'm pondering, I guess, is what type of hound is best suited for hoggin'... from what I've seen of true "big game dogs" they can be way too gritty to make a good hog hound.  It always seems to be the "semi-gritty" hounds that seem to work the best... but that's just what I've seen so far.

All thoughts appreciated!

i guess if i was looking for cat and bear dogs. i would do like jdt said. i would take a trip out west and meet up with some cat and bear men and pick their brains.

i have hunted behind some dogs that hunted bob cats, but was not impressed. they were walker and it was like coon hunting. listen to the race and then up a tree. might be different if the cat was bigger or a bear. jaguar even better. i guess that is why i love hogs the fight.

Noah at one time or another i have tried every type of hound on pigs the top two are plott, and walker with plott being number one and thats about all i have in my yard except 2 cat females one for cows and the other for hogs to breed to my plotts if she tuns out.

I know alot of hound men that hunt bear and lions and most of the really good ones dogs are sortof crossed up dogs most good bear and lion dogs have a totally differnt look than your average run of the mill coondog . My dad hunted bear and lion for the govenrment for 12 to 14 years and most of his better dogs were walkers and plotts but we also had a few bluticks black and tans, redticks but most of the main dogs that stand out as far as being the ultimate big game dogs were walkers and plotts , but they were not big ole coonhound type of dogs they were high flanked deep chested wirey dogs . On the part where you said that most plotts are too gritty. that is partly true it takes a special dog to fight with a bad bear or a bad hog to put the right amount of pressure on one to make him either tree or stay bayed without killing the dog. One time I seen my dad sell a  plott dog underneath a bear tree for $10,000 and the very next day the guy took him hunting and got on a bad bear and the dog got killed . That is the reason my dad sold the dog because he was too gritty and was always getting tore up by bears . The guy that bought the dog knew and just had to have him anyway and offered the money.

10K :o Holy crap!  I believe that's the most I've ever heard of someone giving for a dog, that poor dude must've fell to his knees when the dog got killed ;D

Yeah he hadnt even paid dad yet and dad told him dont worry about it and he went ahead and paid anyway.

Its hard to find real deal bear and lion dogs that catch bear and lion consistantly for much less than that. spending 5k to 10k isnt real uncommon for the good ones.

it was 10 or 12 years ago when i met him and saw his dogs. they were twice the size of any hounds ive ever seen before. he said the only ones he ever got killed were over ambitous pups.  said them dogs were worth from 3 to 5 k, but that was a while ago . btw im putting pontoons on my saddle. how much beer shuold it take to get them 60 head out of that water????

I suppose that depends on each persons individual qualities in what they feel MAKES a good hog hound.  Some people prefer the grittier the better (and catch lots of hogs with those type dogs).

To me personally, breed is not near as important as is a good historically solid line of dogs.  It just so happens I found what suited me in a line of Blackmouths.  Heck, you can even look at it backwards and say hounds are best suited for bear hunting.  Fact of it is, that two of my blackmouths parents are bear dogs for the state of Lousiana, and a belly mate to one of my dogs is a bear dog for the state of New Jersey.  There are also people who coon hunt with blackmouths (lots of Ladner bred dogs) and you couldn't convince them that they're not using the best there is.  It can work both ways if you look past a particular breed and find a line of "whatever" that pleases your taste.

The good big game hounds are the ones who come out of proven parents.  I've got a 3/4 walker 1/4 bluetick dog that is hog crazy.  His dad was a coon dog reject that liked to strike hogs and his momma is as gritty as any cur dog I've hunted with.  I don't know the bloodlines and I really don't care, all I know is that he hunts for hogs.  Now I hunt him with curs and that's it.  Oddly, he hunts closer than my catahoula, but I've never run him with long range, open mouth hounds in an effort to avoid those traits.  As far as grit, sometimes he'll be in there on the catch no matter what size the hog and some days he'll decide just to bay.  The good thing about him is that he'll stay with it all day and I can HEAR him to locate the bay.  He's a loose bay dog when he's alone and if your hogs are dog savvy, that's a bad thing.  Not sure if they're all like that or not.  If you're looking for advice, I'd suggest hunting with their parents first and see what your getting.  In my opinion, a good silent hound is worth its weight in gold when it come to FINDING hogs.  Some guys hate 'em though. 

Myself and my friends have always kept a few hounds in the pack.

To get a good hound you have to look for type rather than breed.  Some are super cold nosed some are warmer nosed.  Some are fast while others are clumsy and slow. Some are gritty while others wont put their mouth on a hog.  Just got to look around and get one that sutes you. 

That makes sense, there's no "magic" line with curs,  so it would make sense that there's no magic line with hounds either.   That's what I'm after though, a quick dog, cold nose, and lots of bottom..... a dog of which I have not seen many of, particularly around here.

This is just forethought for another pack, independent from what I run now.  From what I've experienced in this style, I feel a pack of at least 6-8 hounds would be the minimum for what I would use them for, primarily big track work(trophy hoggin'), and the occasional bear(and extremely rare panther)... two packs to work in rotation until the animal can be bayed.

Is this basically how you straight hound hunters work?

If they are worth a darn, one or two should bay him.

I know this isnt the rule but I have noticed that the colder a hound is the slower they tend to be.  Most of the ones I have owned or liked have been kind of medium cold nosed and fast. 

Interesting, I have always been under the impression that hound guys always ran more dogs.  Have you tried these top end bear/cat dogs on rank hogs? (not that I would, especially for that kind of $  ;D)  I have never seen(or heard of) 2 hounds that can bay a bad hog.  When I refer to a "bad" hog, of course, I'm referring to a dog smart hog that's almost impossible to bay.

When we've used these 3-4 dog packs in rotation, even the baddest hog will eventually give in... just a matter of time.

There are hounds out there that can get it done with style on hogs.A good hound is hard to beat,on any game.

Some times less is more. ;)

Here is a little plott dog I raised that is doing good. She is my only full hound at this time though every thing else I have is at least half plott.  My good buddy has some good walkers but I dont have any pictures of them on the puter.


(http://scoutdooradventures.com/forum/uploads/1194656228/gallery_124_57_87906.jpg)

Thats as true as it gets.  If you had 8 hounds and were being sucessfull you could probly get rid of all but the three best and still do just as good.  The rest were just allong for the ride anyway.   Even if all 8 of them were super dogs you would end up doing more harm than good with that many dogs IMO.  Not to mention if a man is having to relay the dogs then he  needs some different dogs.

In my opinion having more than four dogs at a bay at one time is over kill and more often than not does more harm than good.  I like three experienced dogs at one time.  To me that is the magic number where its plenty of dogs but not too many to booger the hog(s) up, or any other animal for that matter.  Throw in one young dog, if you've got one that needs some work, and the other dogs can make up for any harm that dog does.  Some people say one dog is all it takes and thats true, but I like to have atleast three dogs so that one can pick up the slack if the others are out of shape at a bay or get hung up in the brush and get behind when a hog breaks.

There are allot of junky hounds out there and it takes some fishing to finds good ones.  But i really don't prefer the way a typical hound hunts considering where I hunt.  They waste too much time on old scent and dont show any consideration for which direction you need hunt in.  They just hunt in which ever direction they want too.  Fact is that where most of us hunt there are lots of hogs and not a too teribly many acres to cover, so hounds dont typically work that well.  For one a person does'nt usually need a dog with that cold a nose, and two it might get you into trouble on small places.  Now hounds do have thier place out west where there is more land and less hogs or which ever animal u are after.

Waylon

If three dogs whether it be hounds, curs, jagds, or poodles for that matter cant bay him up I would say you dont need three more dogs you just need three better dogs.

Just throwing this out there but has anyone heard of using Great Danes, I just got a 12 week old female And before i bought her i researched her breed some more and i found out they were created about 400 years ago in Germany, they were a cross between I believe An English mastiff and some hound dog breed, But there original use was as a boar hunter, And from the sounds of it european boars are no joke in size.

If you read about ww2 era you will find that Hitler had some Great Danes that he hunted big game with and I guess he hunted boars quite often.

I found a clip from an old movie where it takes place in a jungle and they send 2 danes on a bengal tiger and these dogs were absolutely vicious on this tiger.

Im just curious, Im pondering taking the dog out with me, think it would be cool to see what she would do with a piglet, I got a stuffed animal pig that she loves to tear up, wonder if it would work on the real thing.

One way to find out ;D   It's hard to find a Dane that's athletic enough to hunt, but I'd love to try one.

I watched that clip and it was out of an old movie.... surely they wouldn’t sick two great Danes on a wild tiger for a movie scene... it'd have to be fake.... over here half the pig dog population has some Dane in it but no one uses them pure.... there’s a really known breeder of mastiff/Danes called O’halloran hounds. Their a beautiful line. http://www.boardogs.com/O'Halloran_Hounds.htm