EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

How many of you track hunt and put your dogs down on an old big boar and the dog's bay him then he breaks and runs right into a bunch of sows and choate and squats sending your dogs all over the place then he gets to slip out!!

I have tons of these stories just would like to hear some of your's!!

One night hunting out on the sugar cane fields, we had three dogs out, one of mine and two of my buddies.
Had one bayed in a ditch grown up in maiden cane. He broke and came running past us, with the dogs on his azz.
About twenty minutes later we got to where they were bayed again, and cut the CD loose, then we heard squealing, we're all thinking damn't they got on a different one. After we barred it I am thinking where is bella? I heard a bay way off in the distance, we cut the other two dogs to her. Got up there and cut loose my dog Doc and my buddies CD. Doc hit first and went to flying, he went right back in and they hit him at the same time. Looked like ragdolls hanging off of his ears, he would sling his head up and both dogs would go flying, all four feet off the ground. He was about 285 with 2 1/2 inches, the head on the left in my avatar.

I would say he knew the routine but we got him shut down.


And i'd also say the only reason we got him bayed was because there was only 1 dog there!!!

A few years back I went for a morning hunt and caught a couple of pigs.  This was late summer and it was very hot.  I was home by noon. That afternoon I was hanging deer feeders on the backside of my subdivision once I had the feeder hung I heard some rustling in the brusk and I thought great the deer are already here.  I started looking for the deer when out pops one of the biggest spotted boars I have ever seen.  So I slip out of there real quiet and haul a$$ back to the house.  This was about 3:00 p.m. and 100 degrees now looking back I should have waited until night but I got too exited.  I had never seen any hogs this close to my house and knew no one ever hunts back there and it being so hot I thought this ole boar would just stand there and let us bay him. Wrong!  Once I get to the house I start loading up dogs I have to take my second team because the first team is about 20 miles away.  I load up 4 or 5 worn out dogs probably my second mistake.  Probably should have just taken 1 or 2 dogs but I don't have cd he is also 20 miles away.  I turn them lose on this boar and they find him and he takes off like a rocket.  So much for my easy to bay theory.  I'm a foot so hear we go they finally bay about a mile away and I huff it in there to find a sow and a few shoats.  No big boar around he ran right through this bunch and ran out the back side, what a gentleman!  Of course all the dogs bayed up on the sow they were too worn out to catch so I shot her and the ol' spotted boar got away never to be seen again.  A few months after this all the hogs cleared out and I haven't seen any hogs or sighn in a year on this place.  I have had big boars do this to me several times.  I think this is an instinctive reaction even if they have never seen a dog before.  I have had it happen on places that have had no dogs on it.  It's a good plan for the boars because most of the times it works.

They are no different than a big buck being chased by dogs.  They will automatically try to transfer the chase to the females.  Mighty kind of them.  This is where having dogs that will stick with a specific track comes in handy.  ;)

I assume it happens but there have only been a handful of times I've seen the hog before we caught it so I have no idea what they've struck in the first place.

I can tell you one thing....when we go on a couple mile race and end up with curs stretching out a little 80lb hog I'm pretty certain that's not the hog we started out chasing.   

I hate to admit it but I think it happens more than we think. I have witnessed boars and barrs do this. I have also witnessed boars and barrs alike, bayed in a sounder, nose a smaller hog right to the dogs and then slip out the back door! I know of a few in my past that were particularly good at it and it kept them from ever getting caught by me.

If you ever get the opportunity to run your dogs in a somewhat controlled environment like a 100 acre pen, do it. You will learn things about hogs and your dogs that you probably didn't want to know.. Them ol big boar hogs got big mostly because they are SMART..

I think it is crazy how they learn tricks like this and get away with it for a long time.  It also gets me just how many hogs will "squat" or lay down and the dogs just run right past him.  I have seen hogs do that in a 5 acre pen and grown dogs run right by him.  Makes you start to question how often that happens in the woods.

A LOT..

How many times you get close enough to the bay to see a boar bayed and they break before you catch him, then when thye bay again you send the catch dogs to find you have a hog of a different color?
Hard to tell when you hunt a place that has all black hogs, but I know it happens alot (has to me).
Thats why I question, when folks say my dog will stay bayed on the same hog it started for hours and hours, I have to laugh, cause if you are free ranging hunting and you dont haver ear tags in the hog, then how do you know its the same hog? I think hogs tag-team way more frequent then people want to admit.
Like said up above, Non believers go watch dogs work in a big wooded training pen, watch, observe and see what you see.

 Never thought of it that way.
  Dog runs a hog for mile(s) then gets it stopped. Yall are right. Highly doubt it is the same hog they started.

I think you would be surprised to see the difference in the results from a winding dog vs. a trail dog.   ;)

on the lease here by the house we have been after a big red boar for about 3 or 4 yrs...he is by far the smartest hog i have ever hunted...he only comes and stays around during deer season and usually leaves for good rite after turkey seaon when we start huntnig it again....he will take the dogs for long long loops to the river and back to the highway which is bout a mile east and west and then back north and south bout a mile eventually if the dogs stick with himnhe crosses the river and always swaps to a sounder...we have seen him numerous occassions crossing rds powerlines sandbars etc...and we run him mostly with july cur x's that are built with speed...have tried silent and open ruff and gritty 1 and 2 outs and whole pack outs rcd and lead in and jst cant get him to stop its amazing how they learn how to work their terrains to their advantage....used to run in a 40 acre wooded pen and there was a big sow that would always lay up in between the round bales and we would go sit rite on top of t and watch the dogs work and they would eventually trail back to the bales and bay rite uinder us that was pretty awesome got to where she did that so much we quit using the bales ;D

Matt, Bryant came down and hunted with us a month or so ago.  The dogs bayed a hog in some thick cover so we sent in the CD's.  It broke, ran right towards bryant, and layed down about 5 feet from him in some thick stuff.  He froze and when one cur opened up on it he had a front row seat for the catch.  ;D

I have seen it..............................and it did surprise me......... the 1st time. 8) 

Its happened a few times with me, Bob(Bigo) and David(Skoalbandit). The same hog each time.

I don't doubt that some dogs will stick to the exact same hog they started, and its gonna be more frequent in a less hog populated area then in an area that has alot of hogs.  I hear it alot "they stayed on the same hog for miles and miles and took us "X" amount of hours to get to them". I believe some do, but I also know that in some areas they will run across or through other hogs and the dogs are going to stick with the easier hog, the dog will switch off, or jump another hog in the way.

How many think a dog can distinct the track of one hog from the other and will stay on the same track, rather than take a hotter stronger scent when the oppertunity prersents itself?

It happens to us down here about every fourth hunt. And as far as getting mad because they lose one that runs through a bunch of sows that dont bother me one little bite. But if he out runs them that would bother me.

I not only think they can, I know they do.  The term used to describe the ability to differentiate between individuals within the same species while trailing is "To hue the line".  The most noted would be bloodhounds that track people.  They can tell the difference between individuals, yet stay with the sought after scent.  Different breeds of dogs have been bred to keep this trait mantianed.  Certain lines within the breed, are better at it than others.  Most coon hunters could care less if their bluetick had the ability, as they just want to tree coons.  They don't care if it is the first one they left trialing on or one they just stumbled upon.  However, often times biggame hunters like this trait as they trophy hunt.  This is where I like the trait.  If I place my blueticks on a specific track, generally speaking they will stay with that track.  They may flush other individuals, however, they stay after the "chosen" one.  However, when free cast, I think they just bay a hog, JMO though.  Seen it first hand plenty of times.  I can assure you, it is the gospel. :angel:

I think a older dog would stay with the hog he started with verse's a young dog!!!  I think a hound would stay with single track more than a cur!!! Seen lots of hounds dang near run into a hog before they started to bay!! Seen curs set down on the outside of a thicket because they winded the hog in there before they seen him!!

I had not exactly an educated boar, but kinda strange thing happen once.  I had my family out hunting one night when my wife spotted a hog in the field.  spilled the dogs on a good spotted sow, was legging the hog and waiting for all the kiddos to catch up.  when they got there i decided to tie the hog and leashed the dogs.  all the while there was a boar not 30 yards away watching us do this.  cut dogs loose and caught him also after about a mile run.  another "strange" time was when my buddy and i kicked out on a group of big hogs.  the dogs singled out a big spotted sow, sent both cd's in.  came over the hill to watch both cd's caught on a sow while a huge barr hog was literally charging the dogs caught on the sow.  luckily Ruby and Luke decided to turn their attention to the barr and push him out enough to get a cd broke off the sow and catch both!

I've had it happen once. We were heading to check some fields for hogs and seen two big boars one black and one red in the field about 75yds from the truck. We let the dogs out and they ran right behind the truck and the dogs bayed the black one about 100yds in the brush, sent in the CDs and caught one and were on our way to them and then we hear one heck of a fight going on. The CDs caught the black hog and the red one was woopin them from behind. When we got the hog legged and stuck the red boar took off and the bay dogs were right on his tail. He ran for a little over a mile and we had a good bay going and sent in one cd and caught a big sow. She was really close to havein some little ones so she had no run in her. Never got that big red boar but still, the sow dressed out at 217.

i have had the dogs leave out on a boar , and send the catch dogs in expecting the boar and have a sow or some shoats...   those boars will go find them a set of hogs to shake them dogs off on..   ive seen it happen alot  up here..      anyone who thinks a hog is dumb aint a hog hunter..

"To hue the line" does intrest me, I don't doubt some do when hog hunting, but I would almost bet way more DO NOT "that claim that do it". Thats where I have some sarcasism. The huing the line is something I would like to read more about, because it gets me to thinking further about scents and species. Especialy when you are talking the difference between humans and hogs. A human is going to be alot easier, different foods secrete through the skin, then add soaps and body lotions, toothpaste, and you have a very distinct combination mixed with individual body odors & pheremones. How distinct is a hog scent going to be after all it lives in a group, lays with other hogs, eats the same foods, rolls in the same wallow. I am sure an animal that lives seperate from the crowd will be  much easier to identify, so what kind of research has been done for wild hogs on this hue subject?

Well it sure interests me too! I would love to have one super cold nosed dog in my arsenal that would dependably hue the line. I use to have a redbone that was good at it but I didn’t use him much. When I did dump him on a track it was on! All day usually :o! I always think about that dog when I see an oversized hog track that my curs won’t take. When he took a track, I was almost 100% sure we were going to look at the hog that left it. The problem with him was that he didn’t care too much for baying a hog. When he put a hog at the end of the track he felt like his job was done and would leave it after a few minutes unless the other dogs showed.

Uglydog,

Prisoners generally all eat the same stuff.  When on the old chain gangs, they often slept together.  How different are hogs from that bunch?  If you think a lot of these mountain lion guides are content to just tree any old cat, I think you would be sadly mistaken.  They are after trophy toms.  Spending time in the timber will teach a person some crazy things.  Dogs have a certain sense about them that will make one's head spin. 

As Chance said, these traits are often showcased by mature individuals.  Rarely, does a puppy show these traits off.  However, give them the time to learn, and if it is there to begin with, they will eventually prove victorious.  I also agree with him that often times hounds don't even use their eyes for prey.  They let the nose lead them.  Big difference.  I'm pretty sure if I shined a hog in a field, my dogs would not even see it.  However, if the wind was right they would most likely know it was there before I ever laid eyes on it.  They can rig off the box well.  I think you would gather a lot of valuable information to tag along with some hounds that can "Hue the line".  It is impressive to say the least.  I've personally seen them run by hogs in pursuit of the "chosen" one.  Good luck in your search. ;D

I'm sure there are plenty of books about bloodhounds in particular that would shed better light on the subject than I ever could.  Let me know what you find.   

Very interesting stuff Cutter.

Done it two weeks ago in bay city, been after one big boar. There are not alot of other tracks by this reservoir. turned dogs out 5 minutes later we were bayed. noticed tracks walking up to bay they were not the one i was after but it was a hog. arrive at bay they were bayed up in a ginormous rosehedge, cut catch dog loose he went in and boar come out other side. Got bayed again about 400 yds away cut catch dog loose boar went out of other side. Embarrassing but the truth. Maybe i need to go in one side and catch dog the other.

We've been track hunting a monster hog for about the last 3 or 4 years in Huntsville.. He roams between about 10,000 acres of deer leases and another 5,000 of National Forest.. It's some of the thickest country we hunt and full of running hogs, but there are some reallly big hogs in the area. 15 orso years ago sone guys caught a 600+lb boar hog with dogs and just this last year a 406 barr was caught in the lease. Van Dorn thinks he bayed the hog about 4 years ago, but couldn't get the bull dog there in time. He thinks he's a huge boar hog... I think he's or of those old smart barr's. He's the biggest track I've ever seen while hunting, the only thing I can compare it to is abt 600# steer track, the few times I've seen the track Fresh it made the little hair on the back of my neck stand up just thinking about catching him.. Twice we've put some jam up dogs down on this guy just after a rain, both time he took us straight to the sows and pigs. We're really not sure what happens after that, he may squat or he may just leave the country, there's so many places for him to go around there that are sanctuaries for the hogs.. We've found his track twice more since then but both times he was running so close to sows ad shoats that we decided not to put down on him! Sooner or later we'll get him alone somewhere and drop the heat on him ;)

Good luck with that hog Tshelly,.....if you're lucky you'll find him way off on his own and nail him. There is another thing that I've noticed over the years about big, old boar hogs. I hunt south GA with some buddies from TN, they all, except one, have hounds, mostly Plotts....that's what they've always used and I don't see 'em changing anytime soon. I have 2 cur dogs that I hunt with their hounds and they do fine, they just won't stay after a hog, unless they're looking at it, for several miles and several hours, which is what I like about them. I've noticed that when we get after a big, old lone boar hog, he will do almost the same thing as all the other old boars we run,....first he'll try the dogs, since these hounds are open on track, the hog knows they're coming, he'll stand up in his bed and see what the dogs are going to do, if he's mean enough, they won't try to catch him, if they think they can handle him, he's caught, doesn't mean they can hold him, but they will catch him. If they don't try to catch him, and he can't bluff them off of him, then he will leave....I mean hit the road and change zip codes,....usually they run clean out of hearing, if he can't shake the dogs by doing that, then he'll head back to his home territory, usually not near as fast as he left, and when he gets there, he'll make his stand, quite often within a 100 yards of where they jumped him. This is when you see what your dogs are made of....because by then he is tired, madder than when he first left and ready to kill these pesky dogs that are tormenting him so much. This is when you can kill him if you can get to the bay,....I've seen this happen on several occasions, and it happens almost exactly the same way every time. In my humble opinion, these hogs have learned to do this when comnfronted with a pack of dogs and apparently it's worked pretty well before, so they keep at it. We've killed several big, old boar hogs that exibited this exact same behavior, that leads me to believe that it's a learned thing. Anyone else seen this sort of thing when running hogs with hounds?

a buddy of mine said he had a boar (i think ) that wasso smart that he would run into a group of cowsand would use them as body gaurds from the dogs and then he would run to anther group and the cows didnt want the hog so they chased the hog out

Seems to happen every so often to me as well, last time a month back it cut down two cacth dogs pretty bad and then broke with the curs hot on his trail then bayed again 500 yds away, we took our only cd left to it and caught a 100 lb small boar with no teeth  ???

I've seen big hogs do that a lot. I like to track hunt but don't do it a lot.  The last hog I hunted like that was at the big ranch, hunted him 3 or 4 times before we got him in the Campbell FFA tourney earlier this year.  Another thing you'll see a lot is the big boar slipping out the back when the dogs bay a big group.  Just like a big old buck, they don't get that way by being dumb.  Could one make the arguement that it takes better dogs to CONSISTANTLY catch mature boars?  Maybe so...

This hog has been around the block before. He started out being caught by one of my friends and they put him into a baypen, we worked dogs on him CONSTANTLY for two years. He would sure enough make a dog respect him. Then someone let all this guys hogs out of his pen, including this one. Maybe a year later I was hunting maybe 1/4 mile from where the baypen was and we had him bayed up in palmetto head maybe 10 foot across, but all around it was vines, tall grass, just a nasty place. Was shining a light at him while he was bayed and I could just see these shanks hanging out of his mouth. Waiting for my buddy to get there with the CD I walked around to the side and then back to the front and he just dissapeared, didn't make a sound!!! It probably took the dogs two minutes to realize he was gone, I mean he was out of there ninja style. Finally the dogs got caught up and bayed him again, my buddy got there with the CD finally, and needless to say we followed a blood trail to where the CD was laying after he broke again!!
There were a few wrecks in this spot that happened before this, and I seriously think most of it was from him.

Anyways, he ended up walking into someones hog trap. He sure knew what dogs were but not a hog trap apparently!!
Oh yeah, while we had him in the baypen we would knock about 2 inches off every 3-4 months

(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh445/sfboarbuster/bighog.jpg)

So I was thinking about these two statements last night and it got me to wondering. When a prisoner would escape a chain gang, prison, etc, did they put the tracking dog on that persons track while it was still intermingled with other prisoners tracks, or did they put the dog on the track that they knew to be the escapees?  If they see footprints running across a field, away from other prisoners tracks, and they know it to be the escapee, then it should have a unique scent, as opposed to running the track mixed with a group of prisoners.

It seems to me like a questionable analogy, as hogs roam, live, and escape "together" whereas prisoners may live and work together, but they don't escape together.

BTW, I saw a beautiful thing the other day running through Huntsville, TX near the prison. It was hot as all get out, and there were a couple dozen or so inmates doing labor cleaning the prison grounds, with mounted guards standing by. First time I have seen a "chain gang" in the hundreds of times I have passed that prison. Maybe if they work the prisoners hard enough, they won't be repeat offenders ;D

Chris good questions.  I think I may be able to shed some light, but may not fully answer your real questions.  As for the hard labor, I agree.  Work them to where they don't want to come back for more.  

I must admit, I never lived in the times where true "chain gangs" were in use.  However, for several years I did work inmates.  I would pick them up at one of the state prisons in the morning, transport them to another town, and work them during the day.  I would bring them back to the prison in the afternoons, only to pick them back up the following day.  This was a week day job only.  No weekend work.  My crew would do everything from pour concrete sidewalks to mow right of ways.  In the training classes, it was pointed out that if one escaped, to mark where they last were seen.  The Deparrtment of Corrections would send out some of their human trackers (bloodhounds), who would then start the track.  Even if the prisoner walked amongst other people, the dogs would be able to "hue the line".  Luckily, I never had one try to run on my crew.  I guess the thought of coming to work for me the next day was just too tempting. :laugh:   popo

Now, as for hogs, I'd like to make a few statements.  Generally if you are track hunting, you have a specific track that interests you to begin with.  It really does not matter if it has nothing with it, or 5 other tracks walking with it.  If your dog is sound at "hueing the line" it is irrelevant.  What I typically do is find the track I like.  I try to find where I can see it for 20' or so.  I will put one or two of my dogs down on the dirt to empty out.  They will not leave the area until I tell them to go.  After they do their stuff, I will call them over to the track where I feel they should be able to start their work.  I will point directly in the track and snap my fingers.  I'll tell them to hunt it up.  If they begin to just wonder around all the different sign trying to start, I'll call them back over to the "chosen" track.  If I have to tell them to settle down, I will.  Generally, they figure out which track I am wanting them to get on.  Once they begin the track, I make sure they are staying with the track, as I have already determined where it was going for 20' or so.  As I said, you most likely did not hear what you wanted to hear, or you simply wrote my response off as some WWW. BS.  Either way, I know what happens, and feed what I feed.  My advise to everyone is feel free to question it, but don't think that because you have not seen it first hand, it does not exist.  

 ???

Chris,

You can phrase it however you want, but I could see the intent of your post.  If you are calling BS, just call it.  I think you know I don't beat around the bush with you, and I certainly would not feel right if you did not treat me the same in return.   ;) ;D

As a side note, I think there are several others on here that have been on the "good" side of the department of corrections.  Probably a few that were even on the wrong side.  JK.  Anyone have an "human tracker" story that would help shed some light for Chris' posted question?

Man, I think you might have some issues that you need to deal with.  My post was pretty clear, that I was questioning the analogy used, nothing more nothing less. No need to try to read anything more into it.  Hell I kind of regret even making the comment now, as you seem to have your panties in a wad about something, and that was not my intent.

When training cadaver dogs, sometimes human bodies are hard to come by, so trainers will use domestic pigs because apparently the scents are similar....how does that fit into this discussion? Had a cadaver dog trainer lecture a class at tx state and he has a dog that can smell bodies 10 ft below the water....


I think the way any dog uses his nose is far too complex for anyone to understand.

WE HAVE A WINNER haha  I agree man!

i agree with you as well....we just know the tip of the iceburg when it comes to how a dogs nose works

Very impressive on the water comment.  As for your comment about understanding a dog's scenting abilities, I'm with you.  It is hard to fathom.