EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Alright, this is a question as to how Dogos apply to "American" hunting style...

Most of us would use them as a catch dog, some as a running catch dog, and even fewer will use it as it was bred for... an actual, independant do it all dog....

Argentinians evidently run these sum beeches loose in a pack.... without a vest..... :o  The possibility exists that these same Argentines are looking for the same thing that other RCD breeders are looking for, in that.... a dog that will catch and "lay up" beside a bad boar, thereby "trying" to avoid un-necessary damage....

I see all these pictures of people that run Dogos from proven lines of overseas dogs and don't run anything but a 2" nylon collar.....  I understand that a dog can move/hunt better without the protective gear... but I can only ask myself "what are these dogs being asked to do?"  

"Hunt, Find, and Catch" is what I believe their specific trait is known for... in as much... why then.. would anyone in their right mind run a catch dog without some sort of protection?


"Bucho", a Los Medanos bred dog sent to me by La Historia Dogos, is thus far, a phenomenal catch dog.... he is the "mental epitomy" of what I would consider the perfect catch dog....  He had never seen a hog, until I recieved him... once introduced, he did his job and, just as quickly, shut it down and went back to "chill" mode...  He doesn't care about cattle.... horses.... kids.... deer... small hogs ???.... put a big hog in front of him however... and he will not relax until that hog is handled....  SERIOUS genetics going on here... BUT... He heals very slowly thus far... not looking forward to his first major injury....

I'm interested in how much "brain" these dogs might actually have... do they have enough "self preservation" bred in to know when to back off or are they a "go untill you blow" type of dog?  

ushog, I know, hunts an all dogo team.... but from what I've seen, he has the sense to run a vest...

So... Aside from my bullcrap observations.... how do yall view the Dogo pertaining to "American Hog Dogging Style"

Here in Hawaii guys are running them as "drop the tailgate & get er done" dogs and also there is a strong belief in not vesting a dog here for mutiple reasons. I had an interest in the Dogo when I was in High school but opted to go with the bull instead as they're alot easier to come by and at fractions of the price.

I have to and they are very differant "types". I love the versility of the Dogo and they have the size and speed to handle a big boar with style.

I run an Austrailian style breast plate on my big Dogo and run the small one with just a cut collar.

Noah, I have listened to countless numbers of people tell me how dumb Dogos are and I tell you after hunting with several now and I mean top quality Dogos and my own Dogo/Ab dogs, there are two things that stick out in my mind.

1. they go beyond SMART!

2. They are so laid back and easy to handle

I dont think they are Hog Lunatic Crazy like Pits and they definately start slower, thats not fair, I should have said they mature alot slower than the bully breeds. There are a bunch of haters on this site and for them I would say dont buy one then! As for me I will probably never own another CD thats not at least half DOGO!!!!!

I put vests on every Dogo I have if they are hunting hogs. To me it is safer and cheaper to run vests.

Stating the problems with dogos as used for the "american hunting" style is in my opinion this: They were not bred to be used as lead in cd's, they are bred more or less as a real gritty cur with bulldog tendencies but their "brains" will make more dogos a cull compared to pits/ab's per litter when used as a lead in cd (how i use them), this is also true b/c they are such a young breed compared to other bulldogs. However I think/hope this will change with time as more hunters only breed the ones that catch like a bulldog. It is also my opinion that they will mostly catch when not rushed and their confidence is built properly. ex: I dont use mine as a rcd until its caught lead in severel times.

Who knows as stated before on this forum I have only owned 3 dogos and have only hunted behind them the past 4 yrs so i am no expert, heck i culled the first 2... but they work for me and i have had the pleasure of seeing white anchors on well over 150 hogs, i love their endurance, prey drive, obediance and their so easy to train around other animials compared to other bulldogs, their laid back house dogs then all business. 

I see them, or there intended function as an intrical part in hog dogging in America due to the laws of Natural selection.  We catch the slow and dumb, so the fast and smart breed.  RCDs are without a doubt going to be a necessity soon in all areas and already is in mine.  Good baydogs still can get the job done, but your sucess will be better with the RCD or Dogo function.  JMO.

Joey Young

All very interesting points!   

If I were just about population control, I'd certainly like to try an all dogo pack...  I'd feel much more comfortable trying it on big property first, however....  lose control of that much horsepower on a small place and I bet some bad stuff could happen quick :o ;D

Give me a little while and we'll run an all dogo pack Noah. I'll be back down there soon, and the dogs are biting at the bit to get on some pork. I'm glad Berrinche's brother is treating you well.

I have been running mine with a 5" cut collar only. They have gotten a couple of cuts and scrapes, but for the most part been unscathed. I don't know if it is the way they catch, but most of my dogos catch the face. I like that spot, from my limited experience, they seem to be able to avoid the tusks. Mostly the have gotten facial cuts and thats been it. I am probably going to start using vests or chest plates. But I have been more concerned with heat exhaustion. Any suggestions?

La historia if u run a vest in this heat soak it in water before u turn out. This helps to keep them cool. Also take gator aid or pedialyte with u for when they start blowing gas. 

Chest plates are the way to go in the heat. Most Dogos are big enough and have a long enough neck that a big boar can't reach back past their elbows with a tusk. Getting wadded up in a thicket is a different story but in most cases a breast plate with two dogs holding offers great protection. Plus they run very cool.

Make-em-squeel:

what does...catch like a bulldog, mean?

Can you describe the differences in which your dogos have caught in comparisson to your bulldogs? 

For me, the problem with some lines of dogos is that they don't feel the dogo should be as game as a bulldog. Therein lies the problem, and thats why people such as yourself feel that pits catch better than dogos.

As some others have said, the purpose of the dogo is to have one breed to do it all. The creators of this breed intended on breeding a dog capable of finding and catching Jabali weighing 200kilos'400+lbs'

How often do any of us come across a 400lber?

Many also forget the other main prey for the dogo, since we cannot hunt them as easily, but the dogo should be able to catch and subdue an adult mountain lion'puma'. I wish I had the opportunity. Saw some 'panther crossin' signs near our new home, maybe we will accidently find out?

Thanks for the gear reccomendations,  I will be looking into them very soon.

i would like to run a dogo pack someday....maybe u guys with them dogos.. can sell  me sum pups or started ones. will do.....i use to raise pits. but not any more.... hopeing to get me a pack of dogos someday.. to hunt with ... any help will be appreciated

I have owned dogos for seven years and have hunted around them for ten. I have seen the progression of many dogs and I have noticed that they learn to PLAN their catch. I have seen dogos one on one with large boars outside of pens and equaled or beaten by the boar. A quality  dogo will not walk away from a boar but they will rethink thier aproach on a boar when being whipped. They are not superman and they cannot walk on water but they are as good as you can get for hog stopping machines.       

Some things I heard and read:

Dogos were bred for an all purpose hunting dog.

Dogos catch wherever and sometimes chew up a hog.

Dogos arent tested as hard b/c traditionally they were bred to run and catch in packs so each dog gets pressured less when on a rough hog.

Dogos are slow to mature and the breed are far and few btx when it comes to finding working quality dogs.

Dogos are not tested to the standards that the founders intended b/c they are not used the same way in this country.

Any thoughts?

None of the above true for the breed as I have seen.

Forgot to mention that I have met five different breeders FROM Argentina.

La Historia Dogo the only way to deal with the heat is to deal with heat. It is simple water! and lots of water! If you come down here from New York and take your dogs out they will die! Not smack talking, truth talking. If you come down you will have problems. If someone works in an office and sits in their house down here and just goes out they will not make it. Make sure you know both heat stroke and heat exhaustion and how to treat them. The heat is no joke. For your dogs have them down here and outside at least a week before taking them out and watch them if you like them. My dogs are never in a/c and I watch them.

Now I am no expert on Dogos or any other dog breed. But I have tried to get out and see different dogs hunt. In my limited opinion pits are great because they can go right to catching with little training and hit like a freight train. But they will hunt like they are going to hunt. I know I have seen people say they train their pits. But to a simple man like me they all catch with the same style. Slam the hog and take em out. That is fine I just do not care for the personality of pits. The Dogos I have seen seem to adapt to their owners style or personality. That is where I see a difference. It is good and bad. The Dogo also seems to progress slower. I really like the Dogo personality and for that I will be patient and put more work into my dog. However I do know it is a catch dog and I can see why some would not want to put years into training a catch dog.

I would not have believed an all Dogo team would work. But I saw ASHog's Dogos work and I can see it as possible. They seem to have a really good nose and they ran all night in cut vests. I was really impressed with the Dogo and I am thinking serious about using more of them. But it will take time and effort. I think the Dogo is what I will be going with more.

Here are my responses to the statements you've heard.

Dogos were bred for an all purpose hunting dog.-----I would say partially true.  All purpose as in they were bred to find and catch large game, primarily boar and puma. And also expected to be a guardian for their farms and properties, sometimes were even used as cattle dogs.

Dogos catch wherever and sometimes chew up a hog.----I have yet to see a dogo "chew up" a hog, I would say a dogo might catch wherever to stop running prey, but will more often catch head on, if given the opportunity.

Dogos arent tested as hard b/c traditionally they were bred to run and catch in packs so each dog gets pressured less when on a rough hog.-----Do some searching of the video that the creator used to introduce the dogo to the "general public", I wouldn't say that his testing wasn't that hard.  I have seen plenty of video footage of dogos fighting with adult INTACT puma/mtn lion, and 350+lb Jabali(boar), not the type of boar to just sit back and wait for the dog to be broken off, the type of boar to FIGHT. A Jabali with tusks that were so long they started to curl around.

Dogos are slow to mature and the breed are far and few btx when it comes to finding working quality dogs.-----Slow to mature is relative to the owner and the breeds the owner has worked with. It all depends on how you raise them, but being that they have many large breed dogs in their makeup, they are not physically grown up til 2, but I would say that they can be solid hunting dogs by 1.  I don't think its hard to find working dogos, or show dogos. But it is hard to find both in the same dog.

Dogos are not tested to the standards that the founders intended b/c they are not used the same way in this country.-----I would say I agree that the creators would not have used the dogo this way, but feel the need to add "in their country" to that statement.  Lots of people here catch LOTS of HOGS running dogos and other breeds, in the manner they do.  And for out terrain, and not to mention PROPERTY LINES, it seems to be the efficient way to go.  As a breed enthusiast, its not the way to PRESERVE the dogo, but it may refine certain lines to be the americanized hunter necessary for american hunters.


Dub:
 As I was typing I see you posted...I have run my dogos in South Florida with no problems in July and August with no problems. I do let them drink as much water as they want, and I appreciate the reminder. I am thinking about how to bring pails of water with my, but I usually just bring bottles and a bowl.
I have never needed to train a dogo to catch anything. And as their creators have written, their primary training should be that of accepting the animals you want them to.  They are bred to have an inate aggression with other animals, and any animal you want them to be cordial with, they need ALOT of socialization. I don't want to start a bloodlines conversation, but am always interested in how specific blood works for different people, so if you don't mind emailing me about that dogo you are working its Lahistoriadogo@aol.com.  I think sometimes others scare people into too much training with dogos. Maybe some exposure, but for me if you want to see if a dogo has it, just let it up against a boar that will FIGHT it. If the dogo doesn't want to fight it, then you have a problem.  Then the only thing I would do, is give the dogo praise for things you want it to attack.  Getting them to attack should be the easy part, getting them trash broken should be the harder part.  Once you let them know that they are allowed to go after something specific, believe me, they will be searching there asses off to find that fight that you don't punish them for.

I did see that video or a video I should say. It was in black and white. I didn't see any type of testing that personally knocked my socks off in the one I saw. Mabe you should post it to make sure we saw the same one. I did see some testing on Puma in a video once, but it was on a declawed adolescent. One of the ones I saw on a hog the dog nearly pulled the hogs lip off. Also if a hogs tusks are curling over they aren't cutting tusks.

The footage I have is not internet material, I have spoken to people that were present at the testing of the footage I have seen and I know that these puma were intact. I think the puma video on the net is a 9-12month old dogo. Not sure about the claws. As for the curled tusk not cutting, I don't know what normally happens but I can assure you this boar did damage. Both with pokes bites and just general wrestling. As a matter of fact, it killed a dog that was put up against it.  As I said, this is not footage that will be shared as it is not mine to do so.  The point was, I have seen video of dogos being tested as hard, if not harder than other breeds. Also I have spoken to people who first hand have been at these sessions.  Believe it or not, an adult puma of 60-70 kilos against a dogo will need to use his back legs more for balance, than the "gutting" most people think that they do.  Obviously each animal differs, but if the dogo has the right drive, the pressure that he/she will bring to the puma will force it to not use its hind legs in that manner otherwise it will give up much more vulnerable parts of its body through a lack of balance. The back of the neck and head will be easier for the dogo to grab.

Also that is the point of the dogo to fight its prey, not just hang on. Think about a chess match. When you are constantly on the defensive you typically don't do well offensively. Same in this situation, a Dogo should constantly be pushing its prey, so that they aren't working on banging the dogo up, just trying to stay alive. Like a puma trying to protect its neck and head isn't going to be thinking about killing the dogo.  Plus wild animals typically are flight animals, since they need to live another day, not like a dog, who will be taken home or to the vet to be fixed and have time to recoup. More self preservation.

Side note: Its 103 degrees in NY, not gonna need to adjust the dogs to climate lol.

Pen testing has almost nothing to do with hunting and provides us with a poor way to judge dogs.  The catch is the last thing in a long list. Many big dogs can engage and hold a boar in a pen, I am most concerned with the skills a dog has that gets him within catching range on a good boar.

I can search google there fore I am an expert. If that offends you then it was ment for you.




I 100% disagree with the pit statement. You must have not been around many of them.


  
Pen testing is like bay pen dogs to me. You cant judge by what you see in a pen if you are talking about hunting dogs.

X 2   Curling tusk are WAY less dangerous than those 2 inch sticking straight out tusk .

Seems a little passive to me, might as well just call out who you are trying to.

I really don't have a clue who you are directing any of what you just posted but since I am in this thread, I will respond. If not then you should have been more specific.

1. None of my dogo, or hunting lessons come from google, or the internet for that matter. It comes from people with experience that I directly speak/hunt/work with.
2. I didn't have anything to say about pits and couldn't find where anyone else said anything negative about them.
3. I agree 100% about pen testing. I didn't pen test any of my dogs, until all sorts of people who claimed to have knowledge in this field, suggested I was going at hunting ass backwards.

Its interesting how some people comment on only the parts that they want to rip apart. As for the tusk length, it was just to give reference to age and the fact that they weren't cut off or broken. The point was that the boar was a fight and a dog killer, and thats how these dogos were tested.

The internet is a great tool, but unfortunately people use it to argue way too much. It sure is easy to be a jackass behind a keyboard. And if that offends you....

Paul: I agree about pen testing, thats primarily why I don't waste time and resources doing it. But the person was saying dogos aren't tested as hard as other breeds.

I am done. Internet arguements are so draining. I hate repeating myself over and over again. And it makes it even worse when there are people that are just sitting behind their computer instigating.  Anyone who has anything to ask me or say to me, my phone number is 631-680-7347 and my email is Lahistoriadogo@aol.com

Still looking forward to meeting up for a hunt in a few weeks Noah, I will let you know when I am back!

La Historia,


   Don't sweat the the haters. ;D

  You have taken more time to answer questions, and it seems that you have been under a microscope on this thread, when there are three or four other dogo breeders that have posted, yet not taken the time to answer many of the questions posted on this thread. Not that it amounts to anything, but I have more respect for you after reading your responses to this thread, than I did before. simply because you have taken the time to explain where you are coming from, and what your goals are.

   The problem I see is that people have entirely different expectations of a Dogo. Some want a hunting dog, some want a catch dog, and some want both.

   You don't have that same issue with AB's and pits, as I would argue that most use them strictly as catch dogs, and they rely on curs or hounds to do the hunting.

    I think in time you will see a division within the breed, if there is not already one, where some lines are catch dogs, and some are hunting dogs. Then the consumer can have an easier time knowing where to locate the dogo that fits their needs. 

 

CircleC,

I do believe you got it right.

La Historia,

You did good... Also, I like the fact that you have clear goals as to what you are trying to breed, and I don't mean the word "TRYING" in a bad way but in the way of working toward breeding a better DOGO.... :)

I agree with circle c..la historia u have taken the time to answer most all of the questions asked. U have also taken a lot of heat thru this thread and several other threads. If there was a kudos button u would get it simply because u have stood ur ground steadfast with good support.

Hopefully one day I will get to hunt behind one of ur dogos.

Dogo.   Not directed to you at all. You have taken the time to reply to the posts.

I appreciate the kind words guys. If/as you get to know me, you will be reassured of how I stand my ground. But I also try to absorb when it is necessary. As for many other dogo breeders, I have yet to see any of them put a REAL opinion in any thread about dogos. I actually spoke to a dogo breeder, one whose been breeding the for a very long time here in the U.S.(though he has had his kennel based in other countries, according to his website) he said he stays away from message boards because theres too much politics. But on the other hand, how can you educate and in turn learn, without sharing, and the web is the fastest widespread way to do it.
  I do have very specific goals with my dogos and the breed in general. And unfortunately if the dogo splits between a hunting dogo and a catch dogo, then there will be three different 'strains' of dogos, the show one too. I always enjoy talking dogo and will continue to, just making my thumbs tired typing on this phone.

Cantexduck:

I appreciate the clarification, but you got my .o2c anyway, lol.

One thing about pen testing and catchdogs...if done correctly, it can tell you everything you need to know about a bulldogs heart quick, fast and in a hurry.


I hunted with few good dogos over the years and seen more than enough culls. IMO the good ones aren't as plentiful as some would have you believe.

She wants the hog it is just not letting her get whipped too hard. It is less training and more holding her back for the right opportunity. The breeding came from bryant. I am not sure what he used. All I know is that she is half American Bull I believe from an old line, and half Dogo. I love her personality and hope she becomes a great dog. But if she decides not to hunt even my wife said she has a place in our house. But she shows lots of desire and really wants to get a hog. But if you want to know more about her uglydog would know much better than me.

What i meant by catching like a bulldog is that I use mine as a lead in cd and the ones i have culled in the past did not fit that bill/ they were hard hunting dogs and would catch anything under 200 lbs but would fight and bay a big bad boar, especially if they were tired. The one i have now is straight catch on anything and has great lungs when needed, that is what suites me, however i dont think the others were bad dogs but not typical for what the avg "american hog hunter" is raising a bulldog/mastiff for.

Thanks for the response. 10-4 on the video, I can only go on what i saw so far. One key thing you mentioned, its a dogos job to fight rather than catch, which supports what my hunter friends say that they tear up the hogs. A bulldog gets on a hog by the head and goes to sleep. To catch it not fight. In anycase, hats off for working your dogs and pursuing a structured plan to better your breed. How do you plan to run your dogs? As walk in and release or the Argentinan way?

Now we're getting down to the good stuff!!!  ;D

La Historia, you did great... I warned you you were swimming with sharks 'round here..... ;) ;D  I look forward to hunting with you, lots of good conversation ahead... ;)

I think CircleC hit the nail on the head about the split in styles of US bred dogos...

It's odd to me that the point keeps being brought up that dogos "fight" the hogs. From my experience the are the exact opposite. They don't fight the hog they hit hold and closetheir eyes. No shaking ripping or tearing. The bulldogs I've walkEd behind they hit then begin shaking pulling tearing. Even my young dogo will hit and she is then she is just caught. There isn't any fighting of the hog at least from the ones I've been behind.

X2. Don't know what this business with dogos fighting hogs is all about but the good ones I have seen are also catch and hold, and the hogs are NEVER all tore up unless you let your cur dogs bite the !@#$ out of the hogs hammys, and under the armpit areas cuz you took forever to get to the bay or you are running too many curs on the ground.

I agree on the "fighting" of the hog, I have never seen it and for that matter don't want to see it ever in my dogs. La Historia is a very green hunter and he will learn the difference. Some Dogo breeders throw that term around like they are proud of it when it is a detriment in the mind of most hunters ( could be a translation issue ). When I get to a caught hog that a Dogo has been holding for some time I would expect to break them off and find one single set of canine holes in the ear of that hog, no re-gripping minimal shaking.

Sure would like to hear some "authentic" opinions... I know there's some Argentinians that are watching this....

It's got to piss you off watching foreigners try to "define" your country's dog....  it would me.

It is my understanding that the majority of hunters over in Argentina run mixed packs. There are a few that run str8 dogos, but they are not in the majority.

X 2  I agree 100 percent.   

 Kinda like this

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/mwgarrett/Hunting/DSCN1829.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/mwgarrett/Hunting/DSCN1830.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/mwgarrett/Hunting/DSCN1833.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/mwgarrett/Hunting/DSCN1832.jpg)

De'Angelo catches locks on and doesnt let go for $hit.  Even after the hog is dead he doesnt regrip shake or try to fight the hog.  These pictures were taken after the hog was dead and even took his vest off he was still locked on. 

And this was a hog in texas with Dig-Em-Down.  Same thing .

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/mwgarrett/Hunting/DSCN1385.jpg)

Not trying to argue. Just my preffered way for a dogo to catch and hold.   

you know its funny you said yours like to catch on the face! My big Max dog catches on the face 90% of the time and after about 250-300 catches had yet to be cut until he one outed about a 200 lb Boar the other night. We were going back to the truck with some cut up dogs and I decided to let Max run loose back to the truck (no vest) when he winded one and was gone about 400 yds and was caught by himself, he had this one by the ear. Most of the time it is right across the snout. He is about 130 lbs AB/Dogo. That face catchin must be the Dogo

My AB/Dogo's dont fight a hog either, they catch and hold, Make um squeel, and DFW Hog hunters PPC Dogos neither of them fight they catch and hold. I like it that way

The only really sad thing I see about dogos is that from what I hear the show dog people don't really test their dogs. I have heard of and seen some show ring champions being hunted, but with the relative low cost and ease of semen storing I would like to see some sure enough Westminster dogs in the woods catching. It is the same old story with every breed, but seems like as small of a breed as dogos are at this point someone could spark an interest in actually hunting those show dogs. That way there may be a division in hunt or catch, but not so much a division in hunt or show. I believe hunting dogs need to be shown to those judges for the sake of breed preservation. A dogo with no hunt is not a dogo to me.

Off my soapbox now.

Cheers
M

The other HOT night with hoghunterdfw we turned my fairly green year old dogo to a bay from 60 yards out to hear it break shortly after, ended up treed on the garmin just over 400 yds and 25 min later she was calmly caught on a 120lb sow, no thrashing etc hog was in good shape and didnt even squeel until she saw me and the back up coming  ;D I was a proud papa! She laid in a puddle for about 5 min and was recovered from the heat quickly. Thats getting real about dogos and why i am glad i spent the money for a PPC dogo.  ;)  Many bulldogs would have had a heat stroke much less have been able to catch another boar 20 min later.

Could be the bulldog adding that trait. Remember, if the desired behavior for hunting puma is the way La historia desribed, then dogos with that predisposition could pop up in any of them. If your using AB/dogo crosses and bulldogs are/have been historically bred to seize and hold you really shouldnt be looking to credit the dogo side. You'd be doing that just b/c you like dogos. Thats not fair to the bulldogs, dogos or this debate.

Crib, I would say you make a good point but The three other dogs outside of mine are ALL REG. DOGO's (Not Crosses) so credit goes to the Dogo!

Oops, I messed up Star is from Bryant. He is here on East Texas too.

Thank you Raider for acknowledging. As far as the credit comment...dont know if i'd say all that.

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=17693.0

These a pure dogos too.

If they are pure Dogo where do you think those traits come from? There is no other breed to give it to?  RIght?

I have run out of answers for those who think a Dogo shouldn't want to fight its prey. So I called up Agustin Nores Martinez and asked him what he thought lol..........Here's are his words, translated by Marcelo Fernandez

"since the Dogo was essentially a big-game hunting dog, destined to fight with wild animals of much greater size"

But seriously that was written by him, in his book, " The True History of the Dogo Argentino"

Right, everything Big Nasty said, the dogos own all of it. They get the credit for all that stuff. Good luck with that.

Josh you have been down here and seen my dogos hit the woods fully vested and walk hunted that way as well. If they are in condition of some sort they will be ok with full vest and collar. I have been hunting my dogos that way for years now.

I have seen a lot of culls and hunted behind some good dogs. I just lost my first dogo to old age this past winter that had been on 100's of hogs and never was cut. Hogs that killed dogs and knocked pits loose and out. Several times we went into the brush and found him and my male I have left caught on big boars laying at the hogs side while the curs and bulldogs were laid out from exhustion or to cut down to keep going. These two males held the hogs till we stuck them then fell down or over from exhustion as well.

I have been hunting hogs for awhile now and while I still like and keep a good bulldog around. My main catchdogs will be dogos as long as I can afford or find them. Like somebody said before I like big catchdogs LOL. My plans are to soon be running an all dogo pack in the corn and milo fields around here.


Folks just need to quit hating and get with somebody that has good dogos and hunt with  them. My dogos are not the end all of hog dogs, but they catch hogs for me and I will take folks out with them. We will either catch some hogs or watch the dogs work or ride the mule. Either way getting out and hunting is 100% better then B#$%^ing and moaing about what breed is better then X bred.

La Historia, the translation may have inacurate word choice. You have gotten hung up on some small points that are/have hurt your argument. Like I said earlier, after you have caught a couple hundred hogs you will understand the slight differance between "fight" and "engage and hold".

To a hunter "Fighting" indicates a dog is biting, regriping, shaking, chewing, catching dirty, ect.... none of that is good and I have not seen it in any of the Dogo's I have or that I have hunted with. I am a huge fan of the Dogo, a good one brings some things to the table that others can't.

Agree Paul, totally. During the last many years we have seen the difference.

Good deal for those who have dogs working out for their yards. As i said in my 1st post, working quality dogos are few and far btx. Which is diff than sayin none work at all. I think the translation says it all. They were developed as mutipurpose big game hunters which means, they were not developed strictly for hog hunting as some have said, they also will show tendecies that are favorable for hunting other types of game, namely puma which may not be the ideal characteristics for hunting hogs. Problem is they are being made out to be more than what they are and that has been proven in this thread. Why someone would want to pay so much for a catchdog that could get killed in short order is beyond me, but it is their money to spend. By the same token I fel my hunters friends concerns about them were justified by the responses and I can feel confident in sayin none of my hard earned money will be going to waste trying to sort through a breed that produces so few working representatives. The type of responses here have cemented that. Mabe I should ask a ton of money for pups and tell those who cant afford it (even tho they may be good homes) to "get a job" since that is the accepted vernacular amongst the dogo folk. La Historia, keep on doing what your doing for your dogs. You seem to have a very good grasp of what to look for.

Paul, you summed it all up in saying what hunters use the word fight for, unfotunately slang doesn't translate well through the internet.

Here is the websters definition and what I mean for "fight", and probably what the doctor who wrote the quote I used, and as for the doctor who translated the original work, I would be inclined to believe he chose the right wording. But I will look for the original and try to post it. I know Birgitte has lots of historical dogo 'stuff' maybe she can get us the untranslated quote.

Fight- to engage in battle or in single combat; attempt to defend oneself or to subdue, defeat or destroy an adversary.

So when you or I use fight as Websters does, you get the idea that the dogo doesn't have to tear a boar to pieces to catch and hold with one solid attempt and work from there to SUBDUE, DEFEAT OR DESTROY AN ADVERSSARY. Sounds very similar to the whole purpose of the dogo to find, catch, and if necessary kill their prey.

As I have said before, this may not be the best for every hunter, maybe none here. But I as a Dogo ENTHUSIAST, and one who hopes to PRESERVE the dogo in its ORIGINAL form, will always be striving for what the creators envisioned.

I too do not expect my dogos to regrip ever, especially once I am close. I expect them to get a good grip and try to bring the boar to its knees.

Shane,

It was nice to have the opportunity to hunt with all your dogs both dogos and others, also to hunt behind my own blood was a great privledge. I am looking at different vest option right now. I was really liking the vest Paul has from L3 but his looks different from what they re offering now.

Paul,

is that chest plate from L3  a custom or did they just change designs?

Crib, "few and far between" I think not. If you don't like the breed then don't buy one. Dogo's are no different than any other dog used on hogs, you need to get one from proven hunting lines.


La Historia, L3 is now carrying Duncan plates from Australia, I believe he is still making custom plates also, just give him a call.

Ok so was a pitbull developed "STRICTLY FOR HOG HUNTING"??????? :o

i keep hearing the problem with paying a lot of money for catchdogs is that they can expire on any night. while i know this is a fact, i also know that there are MANY cd's that hunt for very long periods of time(mike's clifford, joe's esue, come to mind quickly). personally if your cd is constantly getting poked and cut then your cd isn't very good. i think with the proper training, the proper style, and good releasing techniques a good catchdog will be able to for many years. i your are running through cds 1.your cds aren't very good 2.maybe you should protect them better with vests 3.you should rethink your releasing practices.

myabe i've been lucky that i've seen some of the better cds on this board, but most all of the cds i've seen do a great job of hitting the ear and sliding to the side. when there have been mulitple cds on a hog they each are hitting an ear and they make a 'v' protecting themselves. come to think of it out of all the hunts i've been on when the cds are protected and released smartly they haven't even got cut. i've seen more baydogs get mowed down and sliced up than the cds...and that's been dogos, AB's, and pits as cds so i'm not saying any one breed is prone to get cut more. i'm saying a cd of ANY breed isn't very good if they are getting cut all the time...

No way, Whoever said that doesnt know a thing about dogs.

Dont worry, I wont be. Agreed on the other statements.

I would tend to agree with few and far between. On the whole, of all the "registered" dogos being produced, what percentage do you think work/perform at their intended function? How many are being produced with the goal being the whole, or the majority, of the litter being proven or culled in the woods? Of all the dogo breeders in North America, how many are breeding proven hunting dogs?

It has nothing to do with like or dislike, it has to do with a large percentage of the breed as a whole not being worked/utilized at it's intended function.

I really like a good dogo, but in my experience, they have a much higher cull rate than the APBT or the AB. It is my opinion that there's not a dimes worth of difference between the good representatives of each breed...it's just personal preference as to what you choose to feed.

Scott there may be moere Dogo culls if you are looking for the entire package of a 1 out do it all with one dog dogo, as is with ANY BREED. But as far as one that performs as a lead in cd the cull rate is very close to that of any other bulldog, most will catch. Alot seem to also catch the way i perfer, no thrashing etc.

The biggest problem with the Dogo is that most breeders are not hunters and are not proving entire litters and culling and keeping only the best of the best. When the Dogo was developed the culling that would have taken place would have been massive. Today's breeders seam to want to skip that part. The hunting breeders who prove their lines on hundreds of hogs are few, but if you get a Dogo from those lines your probably going to get a pretty solid dog.

I agree that the difference between the top end dogs is small, as it is with any other "type" of dog, just like there is not much difference between a good Catahoula and a good BMC.


If I was going to buy a Dogo there would only be two or three places that dog would come from.

We are in agreement...and your closing statement is exactly why I believe the good ones are few and far between.


My experience (and the experience of friends who have owned/hunted the dogo for many years) has not borne that out.

Thats exactly what I was saying.

x3 :)

Scott, If a person wants to go buy a dog that comes from great lines that have been hunted and tested for years, from a breeder that knows what they are doing the list will be short no matter what breed of dog they are looking for. So I do agree with you, i just believe it is true for all breeds. There are fewer Dogo breeders than the rest, so the best of the best is a short list.

X4... ;D

I agree with Scott on this. I've been around many over the years... more bad than good.

The main reason all goes back to the money issue. People that spend that kind of money on a pup tend not to cull so easy. The dog usually gets sold or bred to produce more culls... gotta get that money back. ;) So this trend continues for many years and the dogo is what it is today.

when you guys say you have seen more bad dogos than good. what is making that dogo a "bad catchdog"? i think i pretty much know the answer to the question, but i think there are other people that would like to know what you guys mean by a "bad" dogo.

in my eyes a bad dogo is one that will not catch. for my purposes a dogo that doesn't catch or one that gets hit one good time by a bad boar and goes to baying...

I think I have read more bullnumber 2 on this thread than any other ever.  :-X

Won't catch at all, grabs the hog all over, human aggression, dog aggression, hearing problems, bad skin problems, etc...

Kevin,

   That's funny. I was just talking to a guy about this thread, and the need for hip waders....It is deep. ;D 

And before anyone says it... i'm not a "hater". ;D I've hunted behind some damn fine dogos also. I enjoy any breed of dog that gets the job done.

Unfortunately, the dogo has gone down the same road as the catahoula... IMO.

mike you know i value your opinion and highly respect you, but do you think there is a possiblity that you and many other dogo nay sayers look at them with a fine toothed comb?

meaning because of their high price and their claims of being the 'ultimate' hog dog that people expect more of them than they do other breeds. i think that the curring out part is pretty much equal for most breeds, catching all over is a training thing, human aggression i think is the way they have been raised, dog aggression(can't be any higher than pit bulls), hearing problems and bad skin problems(they probally rank the highest of all hog dog breeds in these two categories).

maybe i just think of the dogos i've seen(which admittedly isn't a ton)and they haven't shown any of these problems(sorry one that i bought did). most if the ones that i've seen are true to type, their only fault is that they are smaller than your 'typical' dogo. i actually like that. i've seen them catch 350lb boars and they do just as good as any big dog.

i say these things not to defend the dogo but to offer some extra things to think about.  it seems that we have inflated expectations of the dogo cause of the price tag or rather we are less exforgiving when they dont pan out.

So you are saying that dogos are BAY PEN dogs?  :o

 ;D 8)

lol good one cutter bay....lol

Josh I think we have been around more free dogos than most people.  I know I have been around 8-10 easily myself that were being tested and they got an F!  I owned a damn good one that was given to me by a friend but very few of them made the grade.  If we had been paying for them they would still have been the same cull they were as a freebie.

Duece, all working dogs should get a fine tooth comb.  A cull is a cull no matter the breed.  I

You guys are silly....everyone knows that Dogos have super powers given to them by the gods.

OUCH!!!!! :o :o :o :o

5 pages on this thread and you are just now showing up!!!!.......lol

yea, right! i miss all the good stuff.

its too bad we cant find a big white catchdog that has been bred for a couple hundred years to catch hogs.......

Its the fantastic claims you guys keep making. They should at least be able to do what they were bred for more consistenly. Esp for the amount of money people ask for em.

Heres an example


The reasonable thought process is this:

Do dogo s bay?

A real dog man uses a fine toothed comb with a magnifying glass and then double and triple checks.

The APBT is what it is today because of the hard core dog men of the past.
This is in spite of all the backyard breeders that have not culled for working ability.
I Know this is about the DOGO but a few shots were fired in the PIT direction.

It was said that some pits don't have the wind. It could be that the dog came out of the pound or someones backyard that don't know anything about heartworms, or the dog is overweight and never gets any type of excercise.
The pit backed off of a bad boar.... well maybe the pound dog isn't a purebred or is of the larger type and is still a pup.

The pit is dog aggressive... Yup, they are game dogs but a firm hand and proper socialization usually works... especially if it is brought up from a pup... And if it is people aggressive it is a cull. I treat all pits like a loaded gun because I know what they are capable of... The reason being is probably due to irresponsible breeders. In spite of all this I'll put my money on the APBT.... :)

ok i can't hold out anymore off this topic to answer crib ? i know it was directed to mike but i believe ppl do pick on dogo more about their flaws but its because their high priced you can buy a really nice started strike dog for what you pay for a pup some go as high as finished dogs then you have to look at like this you can get a finished cd either pit or ab and know that their goin to do their job for around 500 and under some maybe higher but that seems to be a regular rate that iv noticed... and last yes ppl prob expect more out of dogos because of these high pedestals others have put them on as far as the "ultimate hog dog "

Well.....I am a Dogo and Catahoula man, I am quite surprised I ever catch a hog O0 haha

I have never hunted behind a BMC that I would feed.

I have never hunted behind a single pit that I would feed.

So what does that mean......absolutely nothing...., there are great dogs in every breed. But there is more variation with in a breed than between breeds. That means that the difference between a really good Dogo, AB, and APBT is not great, but there is from great to junk in each breed.


Edit for not using my head....

Any one want to try a Dogo pup out of an Adora and D'Angelo pairing? Just saying a person needs to evaluate the family the Dogo is coming from and know that there are very solid dogs behind them. If you don't do that first then nothing else matters whether they are free or expensive.

Josh, exactly what Kevin said. I'm not a dogo nay sayer, just sharing what i've experienced the past ten years or so since i've been around them. Like I said, i've hunted behind some damn good ones. All the "nay sayers" have had the same experiences... not basing their opinions from just being around a few dogos.

Ive hunted around a few, maybe 10-15.  I've personally only seen one that i would use.  Now, i liked some of the others ok, but it seems like most have a problem either getting to the hog or getting the deal sealed the first time they hit the hog.  A lot of this is due to the size of the dogs.  I just don't have have a need for a dog that gets anywhere near 100 lbs.  thats just my .02...

Yeah its definitely true that there are a lot of crappy ones in this area. I too have seen more bad ones than good ones. with ratio skewing heavily towards the crappy side. but like everyone has said you can say that about several dog breeds that others seem to use with great success such as catahoulas. What can I say just like with curs you got to do your homework before you spend your money on a dog and you will increase your odds of getting a good one but like with any dog breed its all a crap shoot in the long run.

Won't catch at all, grabs the hog all over, human aggression, dog aggression, hearing problems, bad skin problems, etc...
[/quote]


I agree these are problems with the breed, but do you think it is more frequent than the # of pits you have to go through to get one that isnt agressive, heat strokes, leads horrible, etc (the many reasons you cull a pit besides effort typically) To me its a wash, and i dont think many people drop alot of $ on a dogo that has those typical problems. The people i know that ask a grand for a dog guarantee it or they will get you another pup or you cash back. I have culled at least 8 pits i paid between 50 -150 bucks for so to me its a wash...... no need to put the dogo under the microscope any more than the next bulldog just hunt what suites the individual  ???

My last post was not meant to imply that you, mike, are putting the dogo under the microscope- that was just a general statement to this thread....I just replace the word dogo with my favorite strike dog the BMC, I have seen more curs i would not feed than ones i would, seems to be true with most hog dogs.

I put all dogs under the microscope... this thread just happens to be about dogos. ;)

Paul,

"la hysteria" frankly I would expect more than that from you,  especially after you called me out for a similar infraction last year.  This man has been nothing but respectful even when constantly being put under the microscope on the last few threads.

I can't believe that so many people have taken these discussions so personal....I mean its just a dog breed, its not like anyone is insulting someone's manhood.

First,I am not a Dogo"hater" and really don't care about them one way or the other as I really am not one to tell others what ot feed and don't care what others feed if it makes them happy but since this thread is most all there is to read hear lately I will ask a coupple questions.

(1) How many on this thread are feeding "pure" dogos,how many you have and how long you been foolin with them (the breed)?  and how many are actually catching with Dogo's regularly?

(2) Why is it you seem to see so many Dogo's crossed w/ AB'S or APBT's ? is it to "fix" something w/ the Dogo's or a monetary thing were no other dogo was available so the Dogo owner went w/ an AB or APBT ?

(3) To the Dogo ownwers/breeders what is your cull rate and how many did you go through to get the working ones you have (assuming that if you reply you are hunting the dogs)  


Again,nothing against the Dogo as I stated before I have my own breed I like with it's own problems and challenges.
 

Chris, you are correct. I was only trying to point out that novice hunters can have unrealistic expectations about the Dogo. When they start pushing what they have read above what they have done, it makes for some unneeded clouding of the water.

Its not personal to me in any way. I just want to give my view as a hunter and try and cut through some of the mystique of what is written about the Dogo.

You are obviously a PittBull fan, that being said, if you go to a top notch reputable breeder, one that has super high quality Pitbulls, what will an 8 week old registered pup cost on average?

I remember Paul, Douglas, and Krystal jumpin' on me like a choat in a pen full of catch dogs back in the day when I first found this "internet hog doggin' thing".... ;D 

....... and they jumped on me good   :o ;D  Any of yall remember TxBoars....  :D

Once I got done showin' my a$$(and getting banned rolleyes ;D), I realized they "might" have actually known what they were talkin' about and have learned a tremendous amount from them ever since.

You can learn something from everyone... take the good, leave the bad and use what you get out of it to make yourself better....


As far as dogos go, I agree with PaulT... not enough actual hunters breeding them, period. (And put me down for an Adora pup please ;) )

Raider, it really depends on a few things...but, if you get one to put in the woods from a true dogman, in my experience, the price is negligible.

I see them on a regular basis for $150 dollars and sometimes less. Have seen them sell for $1000 but a good average price is $250. I only keep one at a time because strike dogs have always been my priority and I have limited room for dogs. I hunted without a catch dog for about ten years but sometimes someone would bring one or two.

Usually caught all hogs with my curs, either they were caught when I got there or caught when I gave the command. After several wrecks I started carrying a pistol and would not let the dogs catch a bad boar.

To me, it is a lot easier picking a pit puppy for catching than picking a pup for striking/baying hogs...



You are obviously a PittBull fan, that being said, if you go to a top notch reputable breeder, one that has super high quality Pitbulls, what will an 8 week old registered pup cost on average?
[/quote]

Scott this was my point!  High quality dogs are expensive no matter what the breed is, Dogo's are expensive because ther are not alot of breeders out there. Hog hunters dont like to pay alot of money for dogs. Coon Hunters wouldnt think twice about paying 3 or 4 thousand for the right 6mth old pup. I have seen Pitt pups go for $7500 it is not likely anyone is going to pay that kind of money for a Pit and then turn it out on a hog. Pitts are a dime a dozen because everyone has one and every body breeds them every time they come into heat because they can sell them. Dogo's are not a dime a dozen! they are $1500 ea. because there are not alot of them. I culled a AB/Dogo pup of mine because he wasnt as far along as my other one. Sold him as a pet for $1400 people like the dogs because they are big and pretty and great natured. I have yet to run into anyone that buys a pitbull because they are good natured.

[/quote]

Ruben you must have missed the Top Notched, Reputable Breeder part. I can show you website after website where weinling pups go for no less than 5K per pup. Yes you can get the backyard breeders to sell you one of 150 but that wasnt my question. and I do agree with you on one thing I focus on strike dogs first!

Been using them for 4 yrs, owned 3 culled 2 one was free and i got what i paid for, the other had human agression but hunted / caught great, not 2 mo. after going to my cousins she got over the human agression, she was 18 mo. old but it was to late to take the dog back. The one i am huntin now is great catches and holds very clean. So I am a rookie compard to most on this thread but have caught alot of hogs with dogos none the less,i have friends who use dogos regularly through the past 4 yrs and have hunted with a few more that were great dogs. Like all breeds of hog dogs i have seen, I have seen more dogos i would not feed vs ones i would feed. Hopefully us hunters change this, I am going to do my part, God willing.

All hog dogs are crossed up, there is no relavence to this statement....who know if they were not trying to impove upon the pit/ab/cat.??

I am not a breeder but if you can trace your dog back 5 generations and breed it to something similiar, your odds go up vs being a back yard breeder with pound puppies in my non-breeder opinion

 (And put me down for an Adora pup please X2 Mr.Paul I'm all over it!

Raider54 is right, get on line and look up pitbull breeders, selling their working papered pits, you cant hardly get one less than $500 minimum...1k avg. the oly reason you can get pits cheap is b/c of the pound and forums like this one...backyard breeders creating lots of pits driving the price down!! they are as pricey as dogos online.

The quality APBTs I'm speaking of...you're not going to find on the www. I know a few of those old dogmen aint much for technology ;)

Scott,

    I think you are wasting your time. Some people associate price with quality, and have trouble grasping anything else.

    Some of us know exactly the type of breeders you are talking  about. The ones that are more concerned about putting a dog in the right working home then they are making a buck.

I should clarify that I am not directing my comments to any individual, but to an.ideology .

I do what I talk about with my dogos! I qualify what I DO with MY dogos with what the creators of the breed wrote.

You said there are three places you'd get a dogo from, are they all hunting ALL OF their brood stock?

I don't disrespect you, I appreciate the same. Hunt behind one of my dogos, then you can say I don't know what Im doing or saying(though I bet you wouldn't have anything to say). Its unfortunate all these people have such doubt in the dogo. But its justified by breeders who settle for dogos that aren't dead game. Justified by breeders who don't care if their dogos HUNT.  
 Its funny how people will be stuck on certain lines when they aren't even out of hunted parents. But a few pups placed with people that know how to train dogs to hunt, and all of a sudden this line or that line is the best.

 I haven't had 40 litters and hunted a couple of dogos. I've had a handful of litters and hunted EVERY dogo in my kennel. The pups will be started in a few weeks.

What other dogo breeder even cares enough about the dogo to offer any info? I haven't seen any chime in!

How many hog hunters do you know that buy these high dollar pits from breeders? All the ones I know use pits from proven woods dog stock... back yard breeders. Thats where my money would go if I had to buy one... proven hog dogs, not "professional" breeders.

The problem with back yard dogo breeders is that most want to charge a premium just like the registered breeders .... evidently on dogo crosses also.

I understand exactly what he is talking about! But since this turned into a Dogo bashing thread I was compareing the few Dogo breeders out there to the Top Line Pittbull breeders! There are no Dogo breeders out there that have proven lines selling pups for $150. Maybe some day there will be. I think you can associate price with quality when it comes to Strike dogs, are you going to try a $200 Finished Strike Dog? I dont even give those add a second glance. This shouldnt get personel, I just dont understand the bashing, what ever happened to "if you dont have something good to say, dont say anything at all"?

I agree with Scott on this one. The pitmen I know don't do the net. Too many people get caught that way. On avg I paid no less than 400 for my pits(ironically it's the same price I paid for my dogo). Well bred pits cost as much as well bred dogos. And I think their cull rate is about the same. I will say that ur avg pitbull breeder will be able to produce good CDs over the avg dogo breeder. I truly believe that this is due to the relative young age of the dogo breed. The pit has MANY years of hardcore culling in them. It's hard to screw that up. In 50yrs with hardcore culling the dogo will be in the same place. I think it takes people like is that are on this thread to help make the dogo a better breed.

Problem is that we as hunt so we don't have the time or the money to do what needs to be done. Which is why I said that it is going to take several people that are willing to get several strains of the dogo and work together to make it a better breed free of the genetic defects. But most dogo people aren't into giving pups out to hunting homes. They all want to make their money back. That's cool do what u do. But in contrast how many of ur well bred cur dogs will people give to their buddies to hint and see of they make the grade?

I agree...

Raider, where do you see anyone bashing dogos? All I see is people sharing what they know and learned from experience... I don't see any kind of bashing going on. Unfortunately some people don't like the truth and get all wadded up about it... it's been a good discussion as far as i'm concerned.

Mike you are exactly right but I believe there is a reason for that! there are very few if any back yard breeders of Dogos, and especialy that have a proven line, thats why they are still expensive. The truth is if pit bulls were as expensive as dogos most hog hunters would be catching with Gritty Curs

Raider,

  I had a dogo with health and working(catch dog)  guarantee for 300 bucks. Breeder said don't even send me the money until the dog is a year or two old so that you can determine if he will work out. That is someone who is interested in the breed not the money. You will never see his dogs advertised and if they don't work out they darn sure won't have the opportunity to reproduce.

The dogo price is supply and demand. When there are more good dogos out there the price will drop. Kinda like the blue pit bull. When they first hit the scene u couldn't get one for less than 1k now u can one for the same price as any other pit bull.

Mike you havent seen any Dogo bashing on this thread? Really? I do think it has been a good discussion for the most part. I would go as far to say a few have bashed pits on the thread as well, its probably because everyone has to compare one to the other. Are you suggesting I am in denial and that I am wadded up? Because if you are you would be very wrong. I dont even own a purebred Dogo and never have.

Man, this thread is crazy....

All in all I think this is a FORD VS. CHEVY VS. DODGE thang.

Ya get good a one then its good, if ya get a bad one its probably a Ford.. lol

If someone wants to buy a overpriced lincoln,Cadilac or Mercedes who cares.... REALLY

What ever makes ya happy... ??? rolleyes ;D O0

I agree with everything you said and my hat is off to a breeder like that, would you agree there are not alot of guys out there like that? Unfortunately!

Mike I actually dont know anyone who has bought a pit from one of those www..high $ pits, I was amazed a pit would cost that much unless it was out of a rare game line, shows what i know.   Out of the 3 dogos i owned one was free and culled and one was 200, the 200$ one would have made it but i was not patient enough....but dont regret my decesion, i wouldnt give a pit 18 mo to see if it was human agressive! The one I have now i paid 1k for from PPC, the hole experience makes me want to stick up for them b/c they lost $ on her to get her to a huning home, know there dogs inside and out 5 generations back etc, did a very similiar thing for a frend of mine to get his dog into a hunting home, guarateed the dog or they replaced it for me, basic stuff you expect from a reputable breeder or when you drop a grand on a pup....plus she is a great pet and very clean catching dog. I know when she is bred i am giving the pups away to my friends to keep the blood around before i sell any! I have however seen quite a few dogo crosses for pretty cheap, not sure! And FYI I like Pits, owned at least 10, However my opinion is that when comparing the good pits to the good AB's or Dogo's The later two have advantages as cd's, pets, and guard dogs. I cant wait until line breeding and culling makes them as easy to get as a pit! But for now  :'(

Raider,

   Yes, I agree that those types of breeders are few and far between, however they are out there.   I think they have to feel comfortable with a person enough to know that you will not ruin all of their hard work.   I consider myself fortunate to have relationships with breeders of Dogo, Ab/Dogo, and Ab that all have similar views. If needed, it can put you in good blood, for reasonable money.  
  

1) Right now I am feeding 4 dogos. I have been around and messing with the breed since '98 or '99. I hunt and have been hunting with mostly dogos since I started messing with them. I have said it in the past and will here again I do keep a good bulldog around due to being used as a brush weasel LOL.

2) I think the answer to this question is both. I know alot of folks and some who seem to frequent this board that think every dog has to be pit, ab, or have one or the other in it to be worth a damn. If it don't have pit or ab in it then it aint chit.  Then there are those who have a good male or female dogo with no accesss to a male or female dogo to bred to, but have the access to a pit or ab. Hence the cross.

3) I have not bred a litter as of yet. Of the 5 dogos I have owned I have not culled any. Two were rescues and I wished I had them from pups on. One came from a good buddy of mine who hunts all his dogos and of the litter I know mine came from only one or two were culled. I have two now I just got. One was hunted by a member on here for awhile. The other is a year old pup, and if she does not show me something soon will be the first dogo I will have culled.

Man I guess I'm just being comical but having my broker license some would say Dogos are like getting in on Microsoft from the ground level.Dont kill me guys just dont see an end to these discussions!

Or Amway :o

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Speaking of MS at the ground level, how would you like to have about 10k shares with a $5.00 basis :o Some close friends began buying in the late 80's, MS has been good to them.

Is this the record for the longest thread or what????

I don't think I have ever even seen one of these "Dogos" you guys are talking about....

Paul, sorry, but unless I missed something I don't see anything I would call bashing.

John, I just looked at the stats... this thread is in the top 5. ;D

Top 5, but over two hundred posts from being the top thread.

Here is the top thread if you have a few days to waste reading it.
http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=8101.0

I care enough to offer Info to anyone that really cares or want to listen  BUT ! ! ! !

I have been argueing these same topics on the internet longer than most people on here have even owned a dogo. Not bragging or no pun intended . BUT it just gets OLD , the same old arguments and the wheels keep turning.  It gets OLD real OLD . at least to me .  Thats why I havent chimed in.  I have owned dogos for about 18 years now and have had literally hundreds pass through my hands.   I have sold a few and given a few away, and even culled some, in one way or another for one reason or another.  If anyone REALLY wants to talk , DOGOS, HOGS< or just dogs in general , Hit me up and I will be glad to talk or discuess dogs , actually love it.   318-382-0303 But argueing on the internet , , well it gets old and even funny at times.  

The internet dosn't give the true sence of feeling or expression someone is trying to get across .  

Josh, I would have to say to you, I COMMEND you for what you have read and absorbed and what your goals are.  And what you invision, I also invision the same things and expect the same things out of my dogos. BUT with about 18 years of hunting Wild boar with Dogos I have learned a LOT. and I am still learning.  And I still try to be realistic.   In no way am I trying to call you out or make you look stupid or anything like that. I think some of the terms or words must be LOST  in translation.  Some of the thing you say/said about your dogs or dogos are funny to me.  Lets just say for example . " The dogo should even kill its pray if the human hunter doesnt make it to them "  I can agree with that only to an extent.  For several reasons. Say the hog I caught the other night. There is NO way in this worls would a  Dogo or 2 or even 3 killed that boar . NOT in this HEAT.  one of about 3-4 things would happen before they killed him,  1. HEAT EXHAUSTION, in this high humidity the dogos would over heat before they could kill this hog,  2. The hog fights a while BUT while fighting he would be trying to get away and run.  The hogs ears would rip off and then in those tie vines be gone and running off to the races.  3.  Or the boar would have them dogs cut down and toren up or even killed if the fight lasted for more than a few minutes.  Again would I want my dogos to have the mentality to become triumph in this situation ? SURE  i would, Do i breed for this type dog you explain ? SURE I do .  But again i am realistic .  And again I am not trying to ridicule you or your ways.  Just trying to explain a little of what my thoughts are . BUT Thats whay it would be eaisier to talk than type .  

And as I tell everyone I LOVE the Dogos . They are my preffered Dog of choice.  But there are good and bad in EVERY breed and a Cull or two or 5 in EVERY litter .  And the dogo as a breed is a great dog. If I didnt think so I would not have kept them for the last 18 or so years.  BUT they are not a great white unicorn from the hunting gods above.   No Breed is .  IMPO  

Anyone wanting to talk DOGOS or hogs and dogs, Give me a call .  Josh I would be glad to talk to you on the phone and maybe this would be easier for us to understand each others view points .

318-382-0303  Home
318-820-1383  Cell 

I hope this clears up some of these arguments.

Thanks,
Marvin Garrett

Hey Paul put me down for one or two of them . . .    ;D  Oh wait a minute. you have to do without Adora for about 4 months if your gonna ever get her breed . . . . .  rolleyes 

Thanks two the two of you answering the post....thought there would be more...

1)I am running one pure dogo. I started hunting about 5 yrs ago and for the last four I have been dealing with dogos. They weren't mine. I was hunting with ushog and his dogos. Every time I turn out I take my dogo gyp with me.

2)I think u see a lot of crosses of the dogo cause people don't have the money to buy multiples. Getting ur gyp studded will run u a grip as well. From what I've seen it runs more than getting a pair of breeding pips

3)I have only ownee two. One I bought from a guy on here and I made a bad voice in buying her. I couldn't be told anything about her parents or about the line she came from. She was sold as a pet and is now in great hands. The second one is young but has several woods catches under her belt. Hopefully she keeps progressing.

So wouldn't that be doing an injustice to the Dogo by crossing them as what if more carless folks breed these crosses and pawn them off as Dogos?

Atleast you ain't in it for the money  rolleyes  1400 bucks for a cull/pet......

If you haven't run into anyone who buys a APBT because they are good natured tells me you don't know that breed very well. (repectfully)

Great post Marvin.

 :angel:

I keep reading the excuse that the Dogo is a "new breed" wasn't this breed started in the 1920's?  That doesn't sound very new to me.  You would think after 90 years they could get the problems worked out.  Money does matter I have had several great pits and have never paid over 100.00 for any of them.  I have owned 100's of dogs and the most affectionate are the pits by far.

the  dogos  are  just  kinda  big  for  me .... i like  smaller  dogs ..... i  have  heard  the  same  problems  with  dogos  as  pits or  bulldogs .....a  dogo  is a  form  of  bulldog ......  its the  bulldog  in em  that  makes  em  catch ....... a  real nice  dog  from me  that  was in  south  texas  was  killed  by a  dogo ....friend  of   mine  down there  had  one  catch his  mule  with him  on it ....


there's  real  nice  bulldogs  and  real  nice  dogo's ...just  depends  on  what you  like ..... its  like  trucks there's  fords  dodges and  chevy's  ..... drive  the  one  you  like  and  love  it but  beware  there's  lemons  in  all  of  em .....

Great posts Bryant and Leon, pulled the thoughts right out of my head.

the doing the breed an injustice arguement is kinda crazy to me. no one says your doing the bmcs an injustice when you cross it with a lacy or cat! jeeze fellas we are talking about hog dogs here. we all think the same, we want dogs that get the job done. when we need to replace a dog we breed to what is the best around us. unfourtunately there aren't a lot of dogos around that people are willing to breed without a large price attached to it, so you cross to whats available to you. that isn't doing the breed an injustice..like i said those people are doing the dogo no more of an injustice than those people who are running cross bred baydogs.

the 1920's of just beginning to formulate the breed is a young breed my friend. the pit bull was bred for 100's of years, pointers were bred for 100's of years, bmcs, cats, lacy's, etc. all these dogs have been selectively bred for more than 90 years. 90 years is not a long time when you compare to the other breeds of hunting dogs..i bought pits BECAUSE of their temperment! they have been the best dogs with my kids and family bar none. hell on strangers and other dogs(at the time i wasn't into hunting and didn't care if my dogs hated other dogs).

I do.

okay bryant you may be one of the few to only people on this whole board that runs all pure dogs..most everyone on here will tell you they do have a preferance of bay dogs but they will take a crossbred dog if they are good..they never say why are you crossing pure dogs, that is an injustice...

i guess i don't see that as an injustice. i like pure dogs(two of my three are pure..one is a cross of the two breed that are pure), but i'm not above making a crossbred litter if the other dog is linebred and a great dog..

If you knew me very well you would know money is the last thing I'm concerned with! I did know he was an exceptional animal and wanted him to go to a good home. If I give him away as a pet the new owner will have nothing invested and therefore would be more likely not to take care of him. When someone pays that kind of money for a pet they are much more likely to take care of him. The first three people that came to look at him wanted to fight him and I wouldnt sell him to them.

You are right I am not a Pitbull Guru, nor do I care to be, we have had plenty of them over the years some good and some bad just like everything else. I see you find it amuseing to be sarcastic with your keyboard, it really isn't necessary ;D

I own, raise and hunt BMC's because those were the first dogs that hit my yard that I was pleased with.  I have nothing against crossbred or other breeds of cur dogs, but I don't plan to bring them into my thing.

Said it before, but the purpose of linebreeding is to produce consistancy.  If your bringing in all kinds of dogs to try and improve your line simple fact is that you started with the wrong dogs.

The same can be said with any breed.  People feel the need to cross Dogo's, because the people before them didn't understand culling.  If people would take care of their business instead of being out to re-coup their losses, there would be a lot less sorry dogs.

And in the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

Bryant, you may be absolutely right! ;D

Nice Post! Dayuum!

Well said Bryant. I agree 100%. Only thing I will say is if I have a bmc and I don't have another linebrd bmc to breed her to i I will take her to another LINEBRED dog of a different breed if that dog is exceptional and carries many of the same traits. The breed of dog is secondary to me the traits a dog carries are more important to me than the breed. Long as the two dogs are linebred and have the same traits I will stick them together. To me the problem is people want PUREBRED dogs to say they have purebred dogs and will only breed them to a dog of the same breed so they can have purebred dogs instead of just good dogs regardless of breed.

Do Dogo s ever bay?  Not just pups. I woujdbt want a dog that ever backed up.

Culls do, so do cull pits and cull AB's... ;D

I've seen quite a few over the years that would give bay pen dogs a run for their money... dogo's, pit's, AB's and crosses inbetween. ;D

I have seen it! 2 times but that being said Daisy dog traded for a nice Pit CD here a while back and after catching several hogs he put him in the pen to catch a hog out to move to another pen and he ran in a bayed like a champ......I dont believe either of them are supposed to bay

our dogo is the best lead in i have ever owned but if you use him is a running catch dog he turns into a one out aramidillo dog lol you can hear one crunch from a log ways

LOL, Bar M ;D
I have had that a couple of times with young unexperienced dogs in fieldwork, in Greece a couple of month ago, We were on our way back from a dry run, then suddenly Epo was working real great on something, we were waiting anxiously to see the pig comming out of the bushes that he was searching in.....or hear the sweet grunt of caught hog..but this is what he brought out..:

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs294.snc3/28375_393806518788_631498788_4102514_2528782_n.jpg)

 rolleyes

B

(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/got2catchem/popcorn.gif)

x2
just need a beer too

LOL at PPC .  epo just didnt want to have a totally dry run .  LOL 

La Historia:

Can you post some pics of you and your Dogos Hunting. There are none on your website.

HAHAHA, man, this is an old one to pull up!  ;D  Why don't you just get to your point then?   How about you, what you got to show for yourself?