EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Ok I got pulled over the other day for expired tags which i had with me just had not but them on yet. I as headed to the woods 4 wheeler n dogs all loaded in the truck. After I show the office my tags and he ran my name he asked me if i had any wepons in the truck to which i repiled yes I have a lever action rifle in my back seat he asked if he could see it. So not having anything to hide i said sure as I was asked to exit and stand at the rear of the truck he removed the rifle. He proceeded to his car with gun in hand pulled out his tape and measured it 3 different ways then asked me if I knew it was a felony to carry a sawed of wepon to with I replied yes Sir. he then told me my rifle was illegal to carry as the barrel was to short. I said well I dont understand how that can be it is a factory model and there where thousands of them sold I had all the paper work on the gun and I had been through all the proper channels to get it so he makes a phone call comes back and asked me if I had ever been charged with a felony. No Sir (what I wanted to say was would I have it if I was) he the proceeded to tell me that I could have my gun back but it was not to leave my home and I needed to find a different rifle to carry with me next time I would be charged and the gun would be taken. Has anyone ran into this issue?

I don't think there is a law on rifle barrels! Shot guns yes but rifles I don't thinks so!

Sounds like he was really bored, Sorry you got an a**hole

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS Texas Penal code
(10) "Short-barrel firearm" means a rifle with a barrel length of LESS than 16 inches or a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, or any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle if, as altered, it has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

I don't live in Texas but this is what I found online, hope it helps ???

I ain't smart enough to copy/paste on this iPhone.
Google Texas Penal Code.
Chapter 46 - weapons.
Definitions are at the beginning of each chapter.
"Short barreled firearm" - rifle with barrel less than 16, shotgun with barrel less than 18 and either with an overall length of 26 or 28 (read it for yourself) I don't remember.

If I planned on carrying it, I'd be sure and print that and keep it in the truck.

There you go. He must type faster than me.

I carry a Puma 16" 357  in the truck, mule, or saddle. Handiest little rifle I have ever owned.  Maybe I need to print out the law and carry it in my wallet with me...

I guess I opened my mouth a little to early on this one! Lol

I dont know if he knew what he was doin with the tape or how to use it but I watched him pull two of the measurements one from the end of the barrel to the action which was 16" on the dot and one of just the round part of the barrel which was 15 1/2" I beileve but the tape had a bow in it over the sites so I it was probally a little shorter than that. I guess I will have to measure it myself from every thing I have read it says measure through an open barrel or from the end of the barrel to where it meets the action. Thanks for all the info guys n you would figure the Factory wouldnt sell you and illegal fire arm anyway. Maybe he was just bored he who knows. But Im sure Im not the only one on here with that same model.

Chris,
   That is the exact same model I carry very accurate, light, easy to handle and means business real handy lil gun. In my mind it is the best thing since sliced bread and I to had it with me at all times.

Also, might pull up the specs with a picture of your exact rifle.
Hard to argue when you have the manufacturers exact specs.
When I measure, hook the tape on the end of the barrel, then set it on a hard surface and measure to the point where it contacts the action.
Never measure a barrel when the firearm is disassembled.
Trust me, that screw up cost me a Mossberg barrel.

The ATF specifies what barrel lenghts can be on both rifles and shotguns.  the min is 16 inches measured from chamber of barrel to muzzle.  for a shotgun its 18 inches measured the same way.  Now texas may have changed that to where the barell has to be longer but thats the ATF ruling on it.. Unless of course you have a tax stamp for a class three weapon.. And if it was illegal he wouldnt have given it back to you, unless of course he was two days out of the academy.  :)

 i ran into that issue with my short barreled m-4. ignorance of the law isnt an excuse as the atf man knew my barrel wasnt 16", it was 11.5 and i didnt hav it registered and he told me to take it out of the store ( where i was getting a 4 rail free float handgaurd installed) disassymble it and olny bring the upper portion back in and tell him it was for a pistol. i did as i was told so as not to get it confiscated and a big fine. the reads the rifle barrel has to be ATLEAST 16" to be leagal. im no lawyer but if it was me, i would keep carrying the rifle and have the tx and federal law printed out and if that same LEO pulls u over just to ck u, and givs u crap about it again, u can show him the law and inform him to have a nice day and then ask for his supervisor to be called out to the location if the cop continues to want to be a bur under a saddle. he cant make up the law as he goes just to satisfie himself. use the law against him and he wont have a leg to stand on

Lesson learned if a police officer ever ask to search anything , Just say NO!!!!  Period!!

just a suggestion, take it for what its worth...be polite but intelligent, state it in a nice way..DONT TELL HIM OFF OR TO GO POUND SAND..It may get thrown out of court but the ride to jail is expensive...  And for a 11.5 get a bigger flash suppressor..lol

if you have nothing to hide let them..Theres more than one way to skin a cat..reach into the glove box while they are stopping you or reach down any movement could be construed as furtive..  Just be polite and legal and youll be fine..

Why let them search when the search it's self is illegal?  Without a warrant or probable cause the search illegal, so don't let a cop illegally search you or your property.  There is no reason for it even if, "you have nothing to hide", don't let them search you illegally.  You might be very suprised what they find, something could fall out of there pocket.  Don't think it want happen!!!

 well i put a barrel extension on it to make it legal, i drilled, pinned and welded the pin in place as the law states to make it a permanent extension. even if u dont have nothing to hide and the officer seems to be throwin his badge around and then wants to know if he can search, tell him to get a warrent and waste his time and the time of a judge and make the officer explain to his boss why it took a warrent to prove u were clean to begin with. iv done it several times and then found out later the officer got a repremand in his file for acting the way did. but like was said be polite no matter what attitude the officer has and make sure your legal in all aspects other than the reason you were stoped to begin with. politeness goes a long way

if your in a car its an afurtive movement...Trust me on this one.. if a dirty cop (yes there are some of us that dont play by the rules) wants to search any movement you make in your vehicle is afurtive and the supreme court says we have the right search for weapons WITHOUT A WARRANT..Do what you want and think is right im just tryin to save you some headaches..Cause trust me piss the wrong cop off and the tape measure just said 15 and 3/4 inches.  fight it in court but by then its already on your record as being arrested for it, and any time your stopped from there on its guns up...JUST SAYIN....

like the cops say in bell county "You might beat the rap. But you wont beat the ride" Id print the law and be nice  and polite
and most cases  things will be ok
       

Doesn't matter what dirty tricks a cop wants to play with a tape measure. The Puma cary bines areapproved for import to the USA by the BATF. Just another tin badge clown with no comprehension of the law. People like that shouldn't have jobs in law enforcement.

This advice will even work on the incompetent a$$hole officer with the tape measure! It can sure be hard with some of them. Most cops act like you don’t have a clue about a gun unless you have a badge like theirs. They have their reasons though. ;)

I have had my run ins with the law on hunts. You just got to nice them to death and cooperate so you can get to huntn.

All im sayin is being polite will get you further.  But based on the above statement id say youve spent a night or two in the gray bar hotel..  Just a suggestion, try gettting shot at a few times for enough money to be in debt to everyone...These kinda statements piss me off..Would you spit on a soldier too???

i feel the same way machine73 does, if the LEO is to dumb to know the law he/she is trying to inforce or making a law up as they see fit to inforce, they shouldnt be aloud to carry the badge.  i have been shot at more than a few times and hav limped a helicopter back with an RPG in the fusalage ( thank goodness it didnt explode). as u said rdjustham, there are dirty cops and we may/may not have any interaction with them, but if they r dumb, then there is NO cure stupid. that tape measure cant be adjusted to read what the officer wants it say, if the law reads 16" then there aint no way with out leaving tool marks from cutting the weapon that even the dumbest cop can pass 16" off as 15 3/4". i do aplaud the police of any fashion for what they do and having to deal with all sorts of folks on a daily basis, but a dumb cop is more dangerous than any loaded gun, b/c the cop has a partial brain and a loaded gun and knows just enuf on how to use it to get in trouble or worse, kill some1.

Agreed!!! Mahine's first post ame off as just tell the op what is what and thers nothing they an do.  All im trying to say is carry the statue/ordinance (what ever you guys in texas all it) with you and POLITELY explain that based on this you thought it was acepptable and provide them with the opy you have.  When you tell the op no you ant searh it seems like you have something to hide.  then there are a number of ways to get into someones vehicle legally without their consent and without a warrant.  then your just asking to go to jail.  the 15 3/4 was just an example.  and on a side note, the "law" is not just what is printed in the state statue book, we also have to memorize case law, county ordinances, all of which changes on a daily basis so easy on the "dumb" cop he may just not have seen today's new case law.   That being said i have worked with some STUPID STUPID people that had no buisness in the uniform, but really who hasnt???

Rdjustham,  Thank God we don't live in Nazi Germany or Red China, what you proposing, to agree to an illegal search is absolutly insane there is no way a cop or any government official are going to receive consent from me to search anything.  I have a Contstititional right against illegal searches .  Too many brave men and women have fought and died I defense of these right to just throw them away at the whim of any cop.  In Texas the only way to legally search is through probable cause, a warrant or consent anything beyond this is illegal.  I never have anything to hide but that isn't the issue an illegal search is not going to happen on my watch and I would strongly eurge others to do the same.  Don't allow cops to break the laws of this land that were paid for with so much American Blood.  Just say NO to illegal searches.

Just looked at their website and the puma josh randall lookin lever action firearm is sold as a HANDGUN! Not a rifle. Carry that bad boy all u want, but under law pertaining to a handgun. American rifleman just did an article on that weapon and a few other lever action rifles that just came out.

Ok sine what im saying is falling on deaf ears, and you guys are missing the point im trying to make, whih is what ever you decide BE NICE, and for those of you that think, warrant or consent is the only way to get into a vehicle, ill add this A. Man i think i smell weed.  B..FURTIVE MOVEMENT (and just about any movement can be considered furtive..just reaching for your wallet, registration etc.) If you have nothing to hide let the man do his job and move on.  EITHER WAY BE POLITE, take it for what its worth..

Actually I spent 9 years active duty in the USAF as a security forces troop. our version of an MP. So you have the wrong idea there hoss. I have 4 tours in Iraq and spent a lot of time in some really shady places with only my M4 and a small team of other joes. And what I don't appreciate is tin badge cops hassling people for not doing a damn thing wrong. I fought for freedom and won't stand it being usurped on our home shores by anyone exceeding thier authority. That's ridiculous. Cops have a tough job and good ones deserve our respect. But bad ones only deserve scorn and to be fired. If a cop doesn't know the lawnhe shouldn't be enforcing it. That's pretty straight forward. Ignorance is no defense. And no i have never been in jail and have no axe to grind against LE. I just hate d!ck$ that don't know what the fudge they are talking about.

   Reading through this debate only brings one thing to mind. We each need to realize how many of our rights and freedoms are trampled on each and everyday. How many times something is done against our constitutional rights by our government. Remember in November and vote. If not we will really be heading into bad places.

Rdjustham, the question I have for you if you stopped me for a traffic violation and did not have a search warrant, lacked probable cause and asked to search and I knowing my Constitutional Rights afforded to all citizens denied your illegal search are you telling me that you would make up or lie that you smelled pot or I made some sort of furtive movement for a weapon?  Is that what your training has taught you to lie in order to illegally receive access to a persons vehicle?  That is exacelly what they did in Nazi Germany and Communist China maybe you can lie and cheat and get away with that in Florida but in Texas we hold a
our law enforcement to a higher standard and don't allow them to crap on the Constitution.  Cops in Texas who try these Nazi tactics careers are very short lived and some of them end up in Huntville where they belong.

The cop said "sawed off"? That is an altered weapon. If it is factory then it is not sawed off even if it was a 2" barrel. May not be legal but it is not sawed off. But you handled yourself better than the cop did! Cops like that get under my skin.