|
Title: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: mod93dirt on March 04, 2011, 12:25:55 am Let me start this post by saying I am new to the world of hog hunting with dogs, and this is one of the few forums I have come across. I have been hunting a few times with some friends who use BMCs, cats, and american bulldogs. My background with dogs is with schutzhund or protection trained dogs. My personal german shepherd is a SCH2 dog. For those not familiar with Schutzhund, go to youtube and search it. In a really raw version, it is a dog tracking a human, baying it, then attacking when need be. After going hog hunting a few times, I thought to myself a german shepherd or malinois (malinois especially)would be perfect for hog hunting. But yet I see no one using any kinds of these dogs. With their incredible noses, and incredible bites, to me, it seems like these breeds would make awesome hunting dogs. I have seen these dogs drag 200lb men in bite suits around like its nothing, so my thinking is surely they could be trained to do the same thing on hogs. Basically what I am asking is has anyone heard of people using these breeds. Has it worked for them? If not, then why so. Like I said, I am greener than goose s**t when it comes to hog dogs. But from my schutzhund background, I think those breeds could work. I am just looking for anyones else opinions on the matter. Thanks.
Brandon Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: TinyTexasCowgirl on March 04, 2011, 12:40:12 am Brandon, I am familer with the GSDs, and while I have never seen one hunt, I have to wonder if it is because they have so much hair, that in the brush it would get incredibly nasty, as well as HOT. I also know that while to a degree GSDs are independent, they also very much love their humans, and want to be with them, where as most curs that I have ever been around couldn't really care less if you are there.
I know nothing and the malinois, but I've been told they are not much different than the GSDs. All of this is just my opinion though. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: geronimo on March 04, 2011, 05:16:28 am talk to noah on here. you can see from his old post he had a gs cross that produced tons of hogs. not sure why he never tried another one but im sure he could tell you more.
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Noah on March 04, 2011, 06:02:40 am I had one and I believe NThoghunter has a dog named Luke that's got strong shepherd characteristics and both were/are hog producing machines... Wish I could find another one..
I like the Mals, but for $1000+ for a decent pup(not to mention how naturally catchy I hear they are)... risky investment.... that's IF you can talk a breeder into letting you have one for hog hunting... Most GS don't have the hips to hunt hard... Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Reuben on March 04, 2011, 03:26:26 pm I knew of a good 1/2 collie 1/2 german shepard that was a winding and hunting hog dog. I have seen some natural hog dogs that were rotwieler and also heard of a doberman that led a pack around.
I think a smaller working type GSD could work. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: mod93dirt on March 05, 2011, 12:04:18 am Thanks for the replies everyone. Like I said I am new to the hog dogging world, and this was just a curiousity question. I'd love to put my shep in a pen with a hog just to see what he would do, but I am pretty sure my wife would divorce me if "her" dog got hurt. Since my dog got hurt his leg and can no longer compete in the schutzhund trials, I am looking for another dog sport and think that I have found the answer. I will be getting my first "hog dog" as soon as they are weaned from a friend that is 1/4 shepherd, 1/4 airedale, and 1/2 BMC. His shepherd/airedale cross is a hog hunting machine which is another thing that got me thinking along these lines. I really think that the mals would be better suited for this, but like Noah said they are extremely pricey. But with that said, I love mals. They are like shepherds on crack multiplied by 1000, truly awesome dogs to watch work. If I get wrapped up enough in having hog dogs, I know enough people that I think I could get some Malinois semen straws to try and do some cross breeding. Ahhh..the adventure begins. Thanks again everyone.
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Draggin Weight on March 05, 2011, 08:24:58 am if you do that cross let me know. i would love 2 get my hands on some of those straws i have a cat and a bmc that would b great 4 that cross
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: chainrated on March 05, 2011, 08:43:02 am Got a buddy that's a K-9 officer and trainer that just got into hog hunting about 3 years ago. He had a retired malinois that was the most bite crazy dog I've ever seen, he hated everybody and everything and I think just life in general.. I told him I thought the dog would quit if he got cut and he disagreed completely with me. We had about a 200 lb boar hog in our 20 acre pen that had about 2 inch teeth. The dog went crazy when he saw the hog and hit him like a freight train but the hog sunk a tooth in his chest and the dog screamed and took off running back to the truck. You couldn't melt and pour that dog on a hog after that.. There is a big difference in a dog biting a man that's probably not gonna do much more than holler and a dog biting a hog that's gonna put some teeth in him...
We also tried another high dollar malinois from germany and he would bay but wouldn't run but about 5 minutes.. That's just my experience with them though. I'm sure some of them would make good dogs especially if they were crossed with the right cur dogs. They have a lot of drive... Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: BOBDOG on March 05, 2011, 09:58:50 am If you were dead set on a herder, I would look into a line of Dutch Shepherds called the Arco line. Logan Haus kennels. The hardest, most pain tolerant herders I have ever seen. You can google his kennel. Better get your head right though. They an't on "Country Club shutzhund" dogs. lol
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Bino9905 on March 08, 2011, 10:42:48 pm This one seems like a well built prospect http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/17949846 Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: mod93dirt on March 09, 2011, 09:35:07 pm Thanks again for the opinions everyone. Like I said, I was just thinking out loud with a lot of this. I am going to run a few tried and true breeds first, as I am new to this. But later on down the road I think there could be some great cross breeding potential. Give me the drive, nose, and bite of a malinois or gsd, along with the hunting instinct of a good cur dog and I think I could get some awesome dogs.
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Noah on October 16, 2011, 08:24:46 pm Sorry to bring this old post back up... but if any of yall ever come across any Malinois breeders in your travels that are sympathetic to our cause....
well, I'd be interested... lot of intelligence/drive to be gained in that cross... Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: uglydog on October 16, 2011, 11:11:16 pm Herding dog instincts they nip and tear to drive and make run so they can pursue again they dont like to " bay" . They like to bite then they dont catch like catch dog they thrash and tear to bring "down" the prey like a wolf that was trying to kill to eat and bring something to the ground.
Think about it. hogs dont work/act like sheep. Thats why so many different breeds were developed. I bet if you get a hog that wanted to stand still and bay the dog would coherse it into running and one that want to run grabbed and and then get the ears and extremeties ripped off, just thinking outloud. How do they work sheep? as they are not even known for working cattle much at all that I know of. Herding are "HEELERS" Stock dogs are Head dogs, or lead dogs. why arent catahoulas and BMC used on sheep? because they are crazy enough to chase them around ;D Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: TColt on October 16, 2011, 11:18:40 pm My girlfriends aunt trains ring sport and number 2hund or however you spell it. They used to make a living at it but now it's just a hobby. But they have some along with some gs. All their dogs are imports and really nice. They are really interested in hog doggin and my dogs. I take my Dogo pup out for training on their club days sometimes. Just to get him around different dogs and people and to work on his handle. I'm sure they would be down for something. I have talked to them about a mal Dogo cross before.
The mals drive is incredibly high and they are very smart dogs and unbelievable athletes. The thing is, in most of those disciplines, like ring sport, the helpers (guys in bite suits) are not actually allowed to hit the dog or hurt the dog in any way. So there isn't really any way to truly test them unless they get on to something or someone who really doesn't want to be caught. My personal opinion, when these dogs get busted up, they will probably quit, that's the only reason I haven't really Pursued anything real hard on breeding something like this. Might not be a bad mix with a cur dog though. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: SCHitemHard on October 16, 2011, 11:21:10 pm i had a buddy who ran from a k9 that was a mal and he was real tore up, he was hittin the dog with a pipe and it still wouldnt let go
i think a cross would work better, i did a dog class where they tested different drives and down bites on a meter and the mal did real well but the gs had a higher drive and better bite Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: TColt on October 16, 2011, 11:22:34 pm Schutzhundis what I was trying to say where it edited to " number 2 hund... I just didn't know how to spell it haha.
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: TColt on October 16, 2011, 11:23:50 pm Schutzhund*
I'm not mentally handicap I swear... Dang phone. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: TColt on October 16, 2011, 11:41:35 pm That's crazy, i would have never guessed that. all the mals I been around seem to have a much higher drive than the gs, it's like someone gave them some meth lol. I have taken bites from both and the gs bit harder for sure. Good gs imported cost a lot compared to the mals, and most, not all, the US gs seem to be bred pretty poor and have a lot of health problems, especially hips.
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: SCHitemHard on October 17, 2011, 12:03:53 am well if you think physics the GS head is bigger than the mals so bite force is of course gonna be higher
and like alot of US bred dogs the GS was bred to loose the drive and get the want to lay on the couch ;) Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: charles on October 17, 2011, 12:20:38 pm I had a soldier who used his gs for hogs, but he didnt use to hunt them, just keep them run off his property. He said the gs would latch hold n tear the hog up n kill it, it wouldnt sit back n bay. The dog was his k9 when he was a cop n both the dog n him were shot n he got to keep him instead of them puttn the dog to sleep. Like said before, them dogs are herdin dogs, not stock dogs n then trained to attack on top of that wouldnt make for a bay dog, just a catch dog at most.
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Noah on October 17, 2011, 02:51:51 pm I'd still like to try it if I can find the right dog to cross on!
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: SCHitemHard on October 17, 2011, 08:05:35 pm i could see some mastiff or maybe dogo bred into them, they are already strong and fast runners so some muscle added in would be nice
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: SCHitemHard on October 17, 2011, 08:06:49 pm i knew i saw a video off nat geo about dogs
here it is :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZm037jPNgc&ob=av3e Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: tmatt on October 17, 2011, 08:07:22 pm A friend of mine raises Mals. He did the APBT thing for a while so he may consider sending one to someone to try. I give him a call and see what he thinks about it.
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Noah on October 17, 2011, 08:09:36 pm I'm all ears tmatt ;D
I'm lookin' at the cross from more of a bay dog perspective.... I want my baydogs focusing on the "heel" of a hog rather than the "head" .... The Mals I've been around were so scary smart, I believe they'd learn to not push on one once bayed real quick... Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: UNDERDOG on October 17, 2011, 09:15:29 pm Matt, is that Doug? If so he told me the other day he had a 6 mo male working prospect for 1200 out of Aj....Noah, you can afford that right ha ha
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Noah on October 17, 2011, 09:42:35 pm "Can" afford, yes ;D.... but I'll be DAMNED if I'm gonna drop that much cash on a hog dog prospect.... too many variables.... when the right person wants to test their line of dogs, the dog will find it's way to me... in the meantime, I got my hands full proving what dogs I got... :D
And UnderDog, do it YOU. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Noah on October 17, 2011, 09:43:37 pm Hope you know what I meant by that ;)
Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: mod93dirt on October 17, 2011, 10:43:07 pm Thanks for bringing up the old post Noah. While my first two hopefully hog dogs will be hitting the woods soon as deer season is over, I still think about this subject. Since I am just getting started I am going with some curs until I learn about and figure out what I want and need in a dog. But a few years down the road I would like to try a cross with a mal.
I do think it is a crap shoot though and probably would take several breedings to get what is needed, but thats true with a lot of proven hunting breeds as well, correct? But if I could get the brain, drive, nose and bite out of a mal, along with the hunt, drive, nose and brains out of a cur; I think it would make a kick a$$ dog. And it would definitely take the right dog to make the cross. Your backyard bred dog aint gonna get it done. People who are serious about their GSDs or Mals cull every bit as hard hunters do to get what they want.I am not as knowledgeable in the Malinois blood as I am the GSD's. But if crossed with a GSD it would definitely have to be out of some old Czech blood for me. Either dog, I wouldnt look for so much a breeder who breeds for schutzhund, but rather a breeder who breeds specifically for police K9 or personal protection dogs. Like someone said a lot of the ring sport dogs never take a real beating, but I have seen some protection dogs take some good beatings and it only seemed to turn them on more. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Noah on October 17, 2011, 10:53:45 pm Just depends in what you are wanting in a hog dog... for me.... I expect my bay dogs to take a beating when necessary(i.e. protecting me or mine from getting hurt).... but otherwise, I fully expect them to use their BRAIN and avoid injury by WORKING a hog into submission... if the hog decides to run, RIP IT'S HAMSTRING OUT till he decides to sit down and fight.... then BACK THE HELL UP and wait for the MEATHEAD to arrive.... ;)
Trust me when I say it takes not only a TREMENDOUS athlete to accomplish this, but a THINKING dog as well... A Mal would be an EXCELLENT cross to enhance this... Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: Reuben on October 18, 2011, 05:18:29 am Just depends in what you are wanting in a hog dog... for me.... I expect my bay dogs to take a beating when necessary(i.e. protecting me or mine from getting hurt).... but otherwise, I fully expect them to use their BRAIN and avoid injury by WORKING a hog into submission... if the hog decides to run, RIP IT'S HAMSTRING OUT till he decides to sit down and fight.... then BACK THE HELL UP and wait for the MEATHEAD to arrive.... ;) Trust me when I say it takes not only a TREMENDOUS athlete to accomplish this, but a THINKING dog as well... A Mal would be an EXCELLENT cross to enhance this... excellent post NOAH...year before last there was a malamute cross dog hanging out at the lease and he was a hunting machine...He tried to catch birds hidden in the grass and would hunt and catch rabbits...I thought he was probably living off of fawns so I gave him a long ride elsewhere. He would of made a heck of a hog dog. He was built perfect and was very fast... Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: mod93dirt on October 18, 2011, 07:42:19 pm Noah, the talk about a dog taking a beating means I dont want a dog who will tuck tail and run with a good shot from a hog. I dont want a suicidal dog either. I agree with you that I want brains in my dogs.
Most of the guys I have been hunting with dont use lead in catch dogs, they just rely on a Team of their dogs to catch and get the job done. And with my wife dead set against me getting any type of bulldog, I will have to hunt the same way. Thats why I like the idea of a GSD or Mal cross. Take an already catchy cur dog, cross it, and get the prey drive and bite out of a Mal, and to me that seems like it would be a good dog. That is what I envision out of the cross. May be a pipe dream for an all around dog, but that is what I would like to see. Taking an already good finding and catching cur dog, and adding some nose, drive, and catch to the dog. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: TColt on October 18, 2011, 11:51:16 pm A friend of mine raises Mals. He did the APBT thing for a while so he may consider sending one to someone to try. I give him a call and see what he thinks about it. Guy wouldnt happen to be named Douge out of Kaufman County would it? If so, he has some awesome mals, crazy drive! I have taken some bites from his AJ dog. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: TColt on October 18, 2011, 11:58:27 pm And it would definitely take the right dog to make the cross. Your backyard bred dog aint gonna get it done. People who are serious about their GSDs or Mals cull every bit as hard hunters do to get what they want.I am not as knowledgeable in the Malinois blood as I am the GSD's. But if crossed with a GSD it would definitely have to be out of some old Czech blood for me. Either dog, I wouldnt look for so much a breeder who breeds for schutzhund, but rather a breeder who breeds specifically for police K9 or personal protection dogs. Like someone said a lot of the ring sport dogs never take a real beating, but I have seen some protection dogs take some good beatings and it only seemed to turn them on more. They cull alot harder from what I have seen. There is a guy in NY or somewhere in one of those yankee states that breeds some unpapered dogs that he sells to special forces, I cant recall the guys name, just remember the conversation from a day at training. From what I understand this guys breeds, raises, and trains some crazy dogs that would probably fit the bill of what your looking for. Title: Re: German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois Post by: treeingratterrier on October 21, 2011, 08:46:48 am Let me start this post by saying I am new to the world of hog hunting with dogs, and this is one of the few forums I have come across. I have been hunting a few times with some friends who use BMCs, cats, and american bulldogs. My background with dogs is with schutzhund or protection trained dogs. My personal german shepherd is a SCH2 dog. For those not familiar with Schutzhund, go to youtube and search it. In a really raw version, it is a dog tracking a human, baying it, then attacking when need be. After going hog hunting a few times, I thought to myself a german shepherd or malinois (malinois especially)would be perfect for hog hunting. But yet I see no one using any kinds of these dogs. With their incredible noses, and incredible bites, to me, it seems like these breeds would make awesome hunting dogs. I have seen these dogs drag 200lb men in bite suits around like its nothing, so my thinking is surely they could be trained to do the same thing on hogs. Basically what I am asking is has anyone heard of people using these breeds. Has it worked for them? If not, then why so. Like I said, I am greener than goose s**t when it comes to hog dogs. But from my schutzhund background, I think those breeds could work. I am just looking for anyones else opinions on the matter. Thanks. I had a german shepard we got from the pound 30 years ago, hunted it for several years as a nut dog, it would strike but was always catching on big boars, stayed cut up most of the time, but it figured out finally that bad boars he could shut down by chewing out the nut sack, many many times we would find him at daylight near a tank with a hog in it with chewed off ears or nutsack, at daylight he would come to the truck and find us and take us back to where the hog was, one could tie a hog to his harness and he would pull it out by himself, he really loved to hunt and drag hogs for sure, he was finally killed by a javelina in a tinhorn as he went inside it before we could find and hear him and get em out, javelina got his jugular vein, i carried him out to the truck as he bled to death but we did not make it, was pretty sad, he never barked on track but would bark on a bad hog, anthing else he fought it or caught it with other dogs, this was running him with black mouth curs and 2 pit bull catch dogs, GS are very smart and a straight pack would prob be pretty rough on hogs for sure, they got to be one o the smartest dog breeds for sure??? Brandon |