EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Visit the Tdha website to review and discuss the 2009 Tdha Contest Rules.

Thank you,

http://thenewtdha.com/smf1.5/index.php?topic=333.msg1917#msg1917 (http://thenewtdha.com/smf1.5/index.php?topic=333.msg1917#msg1917)

That $3,000.00 first place prize should get some real attention!!!  We have had people calling the shop from all over the state asking about rules and to get contest entry forms.......Those belt buckles will be a coveted prize for sure!!!  Will be a good deal......

Thats worth driving too just to meet all the folks that should show up.  I may have to find someone to hunt with down that way quick.

Joey

Eric was call name Brute before?

Joey, we drove from Lubbock last year and will continue as long as the contest does, just to meet the folks and lend a helpful hand.

Des,

   Yes Eric used to be Brute on the boards.

Yes, I am Brute on most boards.

Here are some things I thought about the rules.....They are just my opinion but here goes.  

The first one is being required to show a hunting liscence to contest officials.  I know the actuall law regarding this can be interpreted in different ways.  But It does say that you do not need a licsence to hunt hogs if you are the land owner or agent of the land owner.  Well, in every situation when I go hunting I am acting as the agent of the land owner in an effort to reduce the hogs on the place.  So if a person does not need a liscence to be legal why do they need one to enter the contest?

Also about the knife and dog only.  I understand why yall think this will help make the contest more fair(meat quality, unfair advantage, ect),  But I dont necesarily agree.  Some people might think that baying and shooting hogs is easier or has an advantage over the knife.  But thats not necessarily so.  I think allot of those beliefs are based on missinformation and a lack of understanding because they have never tried it.  Sure there are trade offs but in reality it is not that much greater of an advantage and sometimes is a disadvantage.  If you are worried about the meat quality then make it a rule that there must be one clean shot only for the hog to be entered.  One clean shot is easy when the hog is bayed and you can get close, but not so easy from a helicopter or when shooting at a hog flushed from a field.  It would also emiminate the use of some of the high powerd rifles, shotguns that would not leave a single or clean shot even with proper placement.  Besides if people want to waste thier time trying to drive hogs out of a feild, let them.  They would have a much better chance at big hogs and winning the competition, if they would bay the hogs with dogs.  Also just my expereince, the hogs we end up catching with dogs, the meat is all bruised by the dogs, while the gun shot hogs have bruise free meat.  Unless you shoot the hog to many times or have bad shot placement gun shot hogs will always produce better meat than dog caught.  I think you are limiting the ammount of meat produced(your ultimate goal if i am not mistaken) by excluding dog and gun hunters, my self included.  It is also worth considering that TDHA claims to support all dog hunters in Texas and that rule does'nt necessarily portray that message.

Also, if you really want to curb the cheating cut the prize money down.  I believe if you keep it at a reasonable level.....enough to cover the cost of participating and pad the pockets a little bit, that is more than enough, expecially with the buckles and other items added in.  Just donate the rest or use it for the TDHA.  I think that will help you attract more people that understand the cause (Donating meat).  Not to mention I am a firm beleiver that you will never please everybody.  I am willing to bet that you will have a similar ammount of complaints no matter what rules you decide on.  You can never please all the people and the complainers will always find something to complain about.  Not to mention the ones that are hollering about cheating are probly the ones that did a little cheating them selves.


Thats just my 2 cents.  I would like to participate in the contest but I wont loose any sleep over it if I don't.  I hope this years contest is a sucess for yall.

Waylon

Copied and pasted from TPWD website:


Waylon, do as you like, but be prepared to articulate in a court of law, that the hogs were causing depredation.
Personally, I'll spend the money yearly on a liscense ($65 combo), as it helps our great state's hunting and fishing industry, and helps avoid any trouble.

Being the higest paying hunting contest in the State of Texas is what makes this contest so desireable.

Waylon,

   Very good points.

I think the logic behind the required hunting license has more to do with helping the TPWD and ultimately we as hunters than it does with any laws. Not sure if this will makes sense, but here goes...

The more hunting licenses sold, the stronger a force that the hunters appear to be. Strength in numbers you might say, and when agencies research hunter numbers, they will use the number of hunting licenses sold to arrive at their figures.

We are looking into the idea of expanding the contest in the future to include hogs that are bayed and shot.  It would be a seperate division from the hogs caught and killed with a knife.  It won't change anything for this year, we are too far along in the planning, but I'd like to see, on a seperate thread,  how many people from the boards would enter a bay and shoot contest if one was held next year.  Also waylon, I appreciate your candor and input.  Thanks

Circle C you are absolutly correct on the hunting licenses. Tdha supports TP&W, they support the cause.


We have asked on prev. threads how many were bay-shoot and never had any response. We can do it again right here but I think the response will be the same.


I AM MOSTLY BAY AND SHOOT and would appreciated a section for that. ;)

I undertand and have a current hunting liscence myself.  However, I dont consider feral hogs wildlife any more than Feral Cattle would be considered so, and any regulation of such is not right in my opinion.  If a game warden approached me in reference to my licsence I would politely tell them I dont need one and be glad to walk him/her through the woods for a couple miles and present some depredation.  Or better yet invite them back some time in July and I will shot them a corn field or two.

Thank you for supporting TPWD as well as TDHA.

Everyone is correct....you dont have to have a license to KILL any animal if you are on private property.  A landowners agent can kill animals that are destructive to crops or pastureland and let them lay.  But it may be hard to explain to a gamewarden why you are entering a HUNTING contest and how all 4 team members are the landowners agent.  Also, hogs are no longer considered ferral the are an exotic animal in the state of Texas.   

Everyone knows how the system works.  Lets say Joe Blow gets wrongfully ticketed......it is a bad reflection on TDHA and the contest and all of a sudden hog hunters are labeled as outlaws.  Thus in support of the law and TPWD, TDHA has decided it is in the best interest of the organization to require a hunting license.  I am willing to bet it will not even be an issue to 95% of the people wanting to enter. 

And again.....there is alot of money at stake.  If anyone wants a shot at it they have to play by the rules. 

As far as shot hog....there were too many "plots" and too much "hear say" of people doing/or planning to shoot un-bayed hogs.  Gunners were set up in open feilds and dogs and team members went into the brush.  The team members caught the dog-bayed hogs and the gunners were shooting the fleeing hogs.  Also, there were reports of helicopters getting involved and all other sorts of mess.  Thus, at this time we want to make the contest as fair as possible.

This is a hog hunting contest, not a dog contest.  Bay and shoot hunters cannot enter just as bird dog people and coonhunters can't enter.  This is just one contest that TDHA is soponsoring.  It does not mean we don't support other styles of hunting, it is just not what we are doing with this contest this year.  We want to incorporate this in some fassion, but at this time we dont have a viable plann to keep it fair.  Hopefully in the future we can. 


As Catchcrall said....thanks again for the response and we hope to hear more from other folks out there that have ideas or concerns.


RJB

What are you doing to keep people from recatching hogs they have allready caught?  I can think of a bunch ways to cheat only a few of them involving rifles.  I just think you are limiting your contest, and more importantly mean donated, based on only one subset of hog hunters and thier paranoia and rumors about something they don't personally do them selves.

Waylon

Waylon,


  I think this is the rule that applies.
"Hogs cannot have been previously trapped, kept, or held for the contest."

Mandatory polygraphs for all winning teams... that's what all big money tournaments do.

Yep.....The polygraph will cover all the rules so if someone caught and held hogs then the polygraph will catch it!

I think that Doug summed it up best when he told me "if you want to play, you will have to play by our rules" (paraphrased)

I too am concerned with participation but its hard to argue that.

Steve

 It really is Montera...

I mean... you can WIN $3K and custom buckles! :D I would go buy $50 license and bribe some one with catch dogs to be on my team for that. ;D



Thanks for yalls help with these rules. We look at threads like this all thru out the year to get feed back on what the hunters want. IF enough people will stand up and say, we want a gun-dog division it will happen, but that has not been the case in the past.

I know i'm splitting hairs here, but don't Barr Hogs technically fall under "Hogs that have been previously trapped, kept, or held." Haven't they been previously caught? WWT has Barrs in a seperate division, I don't think Barrs should be allowed for the contest.

That is what we need.  ;)

We will get an official answer back on that in the morning but just off the top of my head I would say yes they will be allowed. Hopefully we will be able to set the polygraph up to make sure no hogs were "barred" for the sake of hunting this tournament.

 Just read this onthe TDHA foum- " Can I catch a hog on fridday, put it in my holding pen then feild dress it on sunday to keep it from spoiling?"- The question was answered yes.
   So we are allowed to catch and keep hogs alive till sunday, but we have to "catch" them again on sunday in the pen and kill with a knife??

Sorry but I do not understand the question you are asking?

IF it helps... hogs can not be caught out side the specified time frame, held, and entered in the contest. Meaning... YES YOU CAN catch a hog on Friday night (because that is in the specified time frame), keep it in a pen, and kill it Sunday morning to bring to the contest fresh. YOU CAN NOT catch one Thursday night (not in the specified time frame), keep it in a pen, and kill it Sunday morning to bring to the contest.

Also on Barr hogs, yes.

Yes...they all have to be killed by means other than guns....knife/spear....(blade killed)

You can catch it and put in your trailor or pen alive to keep it in edible condition, some folks don't want to haul around ice chests and ice to keep the hog fresh, so they put them in a trailer. Other folks leave them tied up all weekend until Sunday morning that ay the meat is Fresh and edible. If you can't catch and stick then don't turn it loose or don't keep it live, put it on ice  O0 That is the rule.



Waylon are you going to enter the contest? Did you enter last year?