EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

 Elliscounty's thread got me thinking. What is your number one problem to getting new places to hunt? The frmer who owns the land around me has been helping me get into contact with farmers around here. The thing I have found is that libility is on the minds of the younger land owners and the amount of people who will pay decent money to come shoot hogs around here is alot. It is hard to tell people that I will not pay 1500 a year to come hunt hogs, but the dogs will do more then a gun will in that years times.

Livestock issues are my #1. I have hunted on places where other hunters in the past have run their yearlings through fences, cut fences to get in, other hog doggers have been ticketed for trespassing, gates left open, etc...   It is tough to get a rancher to trust you once they have been burned in the past by hog doggers.

Liability has not had a major role, but it has been discussed with some of the landowners.

In that instance, you have to find the land owners who really have an issue with the hogs and convince them that you can actually help with the problem. Differentiate yourself from sport hunters as a depredation contractor. All land owners have dealt with the guy who just wants to come out a couple of times a year to shoot pigs. In that instance, liability is more of a concern because the sport hunters are not actually helping with the farmers problem. 5 or 6 dead pigs a year in return for the liability of having someone on your land with a gun, where is the ROI in that? Approach them with a business proposition. They have a problem and you have a solution. Then sell it!

Steve

Some thing I have been doing lately is telling landowners is that I do hog removal. I charge X-amount per hog I remove and I have references.

I try to seperate in their mind the stereotype of 10 people riding around having a party one wheels and raising hell like they are use to. I tell them I am contract labor so they can use it on their taxes and the liability is no different than them having a fence building crew or day hands on their property. I am there to do a job, not to have social time, not for sport or entertainment.

It definatley seperates the people who are really considering it as an option from those totally against it. There are pros and cons to this type of deal also though.

Seems like we're getting a good list of risks - I'll list a few here and share my mitigation strategy for each:

Liability issues - have a solid, enforceable release of liability waiver available

Livestock - I have added a "livestock replacement guarantee" clause to my agreement, but references also help here. 

Trust issues - slow, steady growth and solid references.  My very best sources of new places come from people I'm already hunting for.

Bad behaviour from other hunters - I call this the "scorched earth syndrome". This one is almost impossible to deal with, but I see it all the time. It takes alot of trust and time to heal these wounds - and even then sometimes its just not possible.   We are definately our own worst enemy.

Also believe that participation in the TDHA and these message boards can help alot - education, communication etc. but there are sooooooo many dumbasses out there ..

Regarding money from paying hunters - I don't bother with folks that see the hogs as a potential revenue opportunity.   I'm much more successful with folks who have a problem and want rid of hogs - not guys who are trying to sell seats to hunt them.   

The biggest problem i THINK i have is that the farmers like the hogs it seems, they like them to damage there crops for insurance claims and also they figured that there was a market for them so they buy them a few traps and have there ranch hands load and sell em..

But the ones that we do help they love it and try to spread the word, but being so close to dallas farmers have people begging and pleading to let them hunt so to them i seem like the ordinary hunter that wants to hunt there land for free and remove hogs. It is tough to find new land. I have a feeling that texas is going to get top the point that you will have deer leases and hog leases. :-\

Excellent post Tim.  I agree on all points.

What I have explained to landowners is this.  If you cannot accept my word/ handshake that I will do right by you, then no amount of signatures will do any good. As far as I am concerned a man is only as good as his word. Solid references always help too, I give a list of HOA's, Ranchers,etc  I also point out that we can be considered an asset rather than a liability in that we are on the property at odd hours that the rancher is not. We are extra eyes looking for down fences, water gaps, etc, and can notify him of anything that looks out of the ordinary.

Now with that said, I do have a 4 page contract that some lawyers drew up for a development I was doing hog removal for. I guess it made them feel better ;D

Good point there, i have been hog hunting on several occasions and seen issues with livestock and reported back to owner and even helped on a couple occasions.. As well as the deer hunters i see an area that is good bedding or trail i can report cause we know that us hog hunters go places unimaginable 8)

Just like in business, word-of-mouth advertising can be your greatest asset or your worst enemy.

If you can somehow get in with the big farmers / land owners in your particular area, then prove your worth (not by words, but by your actions) you'll find more places to hunt than you can shake a stick at.

My family's been leasing land to deer hunters for years, and I've been hunting on other's places for years.  I've seen both sides to the equation.  What gets people in trouble is when they get a little too comfortable and start failing to realize that the owner is STILL the owner.  Every time you set foot on a piece of earth that doesn't belong to you, it should be considered a privilege to be there.

When dealing with owners of prospective tracts of land, I don't personally represent myself as anything but a sport hunter who can *HELP* with a potential problem they might be having.  I feel if you gain access to a property by representing yourself as depredation control, then you are at the mercy of the owner.  He calls...been seeing hogs and has corn knocked down, you better jump or he might take away your privileges.  The understanding that I have with the owners I hunt for, is if they are having a problem they call me.  99% of the time I AM able to jump, but fact of it is that my business and family comes first and sometimes I have other obligations and just can't come running.

What they (and really anyone you have business dealings with in life) appreciate most is honesty and integrity.  I was raised under the premise that the only thing a man really has in this world is his word.

Good point bryant! Now when is your family gonna lease me some deer hunting land ;)

It's not a problem that muich for me but when it is, the #1 problem is landowner having a previous bad expereince with irresponsible people hog hunting.  If you take on the role of thinning the hog herd as apposed to recreation, that shows, and the landowner responds positivly.  When we hunt is more of a task at hand than it is a party.  We also get allot of places because we dont use catch dogs.  They like the fact that the hogs are dead after we get through with them and no chance for us to catch and release.  I've had allot of landowners ask about bulldogs and catching hogs and we don't do it, they say "thats good then you wont turn them back loose like those other guys did"

Waylon

That's interesting you say that, Waylon.  One of the reasons I started using a catchdog is that I was running into a few landowners that didn't like the idea of several guys running around their woods with guns.  Here in central texas, I don't think people releasing hogs is as much of a problem as in other parts of the state.

Agreed. We never let hogs go but we have been warned not to by land owners. I just dont think thats done much around here.

Steve

so it seems the number one problem dog hunter face....... is ourself.

    I am tring to get into contact with the large land owners but the few I have talked to have MAJOR issues with dogs. I have offered to bring a few dogs out and let them see for themselves that they wont mess wth cows and such. Around Granger alot of the farmers bitch about the hogs but not many want help getting rid of them. I am sure after I pound more pavement I will figure it out. Just need that one break.........

I have always equated hunting properties with credit....Its a PITA to get the first one, but once you finally get one, if you take care of them, the others come along much easier. If you screw it up, it is hard to get more land.

You hit the nail on the head! ;D

One of my biggest issues hunting these "city hogs" is convincing these HOA's, developers, boards of directors, local govt. agencies, etc... to let me bring the dogs in to help solve their problem. They all want you there... but no one want to be held responsible.

Once you get established, do everything you can to earn a spotless reputation. Good references are priceless in future properties you try to obtain.

Also, try and work with local law enforement. I work closely with the sheriff's dept, game wardens and constables... having them on your side and for references is a major plus.

Does anyone have a sample contract/agreement they are willing to send me? Thanks

I posted in the general section about a sample contract also.  It would help out.....anyone?

I have one that I can send tomorrow. It is on my office computer. It is rather lengthy, but you are welcome to modify it to fit your specific needs.
Just need your email addresses.

Circle C,

PM'ed you Thanks.

Here is one of my contracts. If nothing else, it should give y'all a starting point on what to put in one.  Some of the stuff in the contract is legal "fluff", some of it is important. Maybe it will help someone though. The 4th page I use is a map of the location printed from Google Earth, with the boundaries clearly marked.

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p204/ccoughran/accessagreement-blank_Page_1.jpg)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p204/ccoughran/accessagreement-blank_Page_2.jpg)
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p204/ccoughran/accessagreement-blank_Page_3.jpg)

i have one land owner that is a lawer and he has been nice a wrote me up a form the holds each person in the hunting party at there own risk and this has helped a lot

Man that document looks complicated,  I'd have to mount a fileing cabinet on my dog box to carry all those dern things around in.  Call me old school, but I'm sticking stick to a hand shake as long as I can.

Waylon

Waylon, that's the life of "city hog" hunter. ;D

You oughta see the stack of paper in my county contract. :o

Waylon,

   I agree 100% that a handshake is all I need. It's the damn lawyers and our litigious society that makes the landowners want the contract, that and this particular landowner has their own legal department.  ;D

I have a farmer that sends a paper with me from his insurance company. Every one who goes on the property has to sign it. Every so often I turn it into him and get a blank one again.