EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I was just curious about the pros and cons of buying a papered pup from a good line and how many ppl on here care about papers or not. Just trying to weigh my options

Papers don't find hogs. ;)

I would say that totally depends on your overall objective.  ;)

Are you in it to only catch hogs?  Some are, so are not. You've got to decide what your longterm goals are. Proceed towards that direction (with a great amount of research, evaluation, and thought). Jmo!

One benefit of papers is that you can see the consistency amongst the ancestors or lack of it. I was amazed the other day when I sold a plott pup to a guy that had plotts for over 50 years, he told me this one particular dog way back (that was extremely well known) would throw a certain trait that you could only see in the paw. Black river Bawlie would produce pups with greying fur in between the toes of pups. Totally amazed me when he showed me.

i have dogs with papers and with out they hunt the same but papers an help you know what to look foward to

Cutter bay
Currently have no dogs with papers right now and yes my ultimate goal is to catch more hogs  ;D my no papered dogs r doin just fine for me! I was just wanting to add some proven blood mabye idk tho most ppl breed out of proven dogs wheather they have papers or not a very expensive puppy could b a very expensive cull never know? Jm .02

I only deal with papers. It helps keep
my options open. If the dog want hunt send him to the show ring. Can't show them or reg. them without papers. If you're selling dogs the first thing a buyer ask you for is papers just to get a lower price. At least that's how it is up north. Jmo

What is having a papered dog got to do for a guy that only wants to catch hogs. You let me me pick 25 dogs from the pound, and I'll have 10 catching their own hogs on the right piece of property within 3 weeks.  Papers are more for those that want to breed dogs.  If you never plan on breeding your own line, I can't see it helping enough to justify the cost.

Now having said that, there are plenty of people breeding dogs that have no business doing so. They are simply creating more culls.  Buying into a breeder's line whether the dogs are papered or not, is merely a tool to have in your toolbox of knowledge. It helps mold your finished product by knowing what your ingredients are.

If you just like catching hogs, feed your dogs tracks. If they don't have the tools to consistantly get it done, find replacements that will move you closer to your final goal.  I am not into dogs to catch hogs. It is so much more than that. To each his own.   ;)

Depends on the breed. Cur dogs who cares, catahoula maybe, Dogo definitely.

But if the dog doesn't catch hogs it can take the papers and get out. Not having papers doesn't catch pigs either  ;D

Papers no papers who cares? Better catch pigs.

As much as I enjoy jacking with Mikes emotions. Great point! Have to go with that myself.

Definition of paper (A material made of cellulose pulp, derived mainly from wood, rags, and certain grasses, processed into flexible sheets or rolls by deposit from an aqueous suspension, and used chiefly for writing, printing, drawing, wrapping, and covering walls).  

Did anybody get great hunting dog out of that description?  Nope neither did I.

For hunting dogs in my opinion worthless. Show dogs why not Paris Hilton has em on Tinker Bell !
  

never in my hog hunting days have i seen a big old boar stop and say hay dog you got papers dog  says nope hog cuts dog all up dog says yes dose hog still cuts dog up.i ant never had a papered dog. Dose it matter if you got thim or not         

you guys are right  papers dnt find hogs!!  but I can breed 2 mediocre dogs  that are line bred and come from some good bloodlines that have been proven many times and have better odds on gettin better pups than if you breed 2 super strike dogs that you dnt really know where they came from..              just my 2 cents!

to me papers just show where a dog came from! sure i can breed the same dogs, and sure they may or may not work. when its all said and done if u line breed off another mans name all u did was ride his coat tails!!!  i looken to better the breeds i use, i may take this dog that works from this line and this dog came from that line of dogs, but what i wanna do is try and lock in the traits i desire from each dog. and that is where a good line bred dog comes into play each line of dog posses traits that another line may not have u take the 2 dogs u make the cross, cross ur fingers and hope that u can achieve what u was crossen for. if u did`nt breed what u was looken for cull the litter and go back to the drawing board. the ultimate goal is to have a whole litter that posses all the desire traits that im looken for, this will take years im only 26 so i hope i have years to come, and many breedings ahead of me!!! in the end im goen to have dogs with lineage a mile long and does`nt have a stitch of paper big enough to wipe my butt with.

I have just one question if papers dont mean any thing why do all of the big time yellow dog breeders in south texas charge $500-1000 per pup for the papers if papers and breeding dont find hogs why would some one pay this kind of money? Just to catch hogs because ever one that buys these pups are not all breeders? Just wondering?

Take anybody who has bred any line of dogs for any amount of time, and they can tell you the lineage of anything on their yard.  Wether it be documented by registry, written on paper in his dresser drawer, or solely by memory alone there will always be some sort of record, and therefore some rhyme or reason why he/she made this or that cross.

The problem with "papers" comes about when someone gets hold of one of these dogs and starts mass producing and breeding based on the names alone.

You guys are right...papers don't find hogs...but if successful, consistant breeding is your intent whether it be by written document or mental notes you better familiarize yourself with the lineage.

Not to disrespect anybody but they ask it because of one thing. Their are always people that will pay it! Alot of our current hog hunters are young or new to the sport (nothing wrong with either). Everyone has to start somewhere and its human nature to want the best. Fire and smoke. Its easy to whip out a piece of paper that says your dogs are champions of champions to impress a novice. If I recommend any type of paper it would be a piece of notebook paper that you are frantically writing down the lineage of an old man's 60 yr line that he is giving you from memory.  But to each their own.       

i got some muts that find hogs, what are papers good for.

registered dogs usually sell for more money. Especially pups... I steer clear from most of them because lots of people will breed the dog because it has papers and not care whether it is a proven hunting dog or not...they do it because they have a chance to make money because of the registration papers.

X2

I agree that papers don't find hogs. However, I like to know as much as I can about the pedigree/lineage of a dog that I consider breeding, and the hunting/working abilities/habits of the dogs in that pedigree. I value the verbal account of this from the person(s) who raised and hunted those dogs as much or more than a set of papers from a registry. Therefore, I agree with those that are saying that pedigree/lineage is important, but papers are less so. Correct papers do help keep up with lineage.

In my many yrs of dealing with paper dogs is sometimes the papers are real if it is NKC they do not mean anything all you have to do to have papers is go to a vet and let them sign that is purebreed dog and bang you have papers on the otherhand NALC you have to send pics with mom and puppies in to be verified its just a matter of can you trust the person you are buying it from Papers help with breeding for puppies

Some of the worst dogs I have seen the seller said they were triple registered. I figure I only need that much paper if I am on the toilet after eating something that was not cooked right. I have only owned a few registered dogs because that is how the dog came. The registered dog I have now I got from LaDogos. Now you tell me his dogs don't hunt. Papers don't hunt but in my life the best dog I ever owned had papers. So the worst dogs I ever saw and the best dog had papers. When it comes to hunting I could care less about papers. The only thing paper is good for when hunting is to blow your nose or wipe your @$$.

And sometimes a breeder makes the choice to not register certain litters to keep people from breeding papers to papers.  Its not mean, just makes the dogs prove themselves before anybody breeds them...jmo.   Some of mine are registered, some aren't.  But each one has earned the right to live here and they didn't earn that waving a set of papers in front of me!!! 

good to wipe ur @$$ with  ;D never had a papered dog except my wifes pugs and danes :-\

 Papers are just a way to make $$$$$$, Heck I can go get a Pitbull registered as a black mouth cur at canton every first monday of the month. Like already said before Id rather have a pup or dog from a ole timer that scribbled the pedigree down on a napkin, Id trust that more than any registry papers around.

Papers don't mean squat!

Where inns put a dog or a horse is going to tear them papers up lol I got tapered horses and inns tell u its goin to b hard for me 2 find them I had tapered coin digs never used them they were just easier to sell them I'm here to tell u my good dogs aren't goin anywhere and my puppies are cheap and if they won't work I give them away as ranch dog so papers no necessary

 No papers, but then again I don't plan on selling pups. Ive never spent more than 25 on a pup but if I were going to buy a pup, I would want to know about the parents and grandparents hunting abilities and about the success of past litters and I don't think that they put that on papers.

                                           i agree with you on this dj because it aint like they have a true hog hunt trial that you could hunt and record your wins on that i know of like in coon hunting? even then that aint to accurate because i have hunted with dual grand night champion coon dogs that had that on his papers and i have also hunted with a mountain cur that would out hunt that dual champ anyday but the guy didnt like the contest politics so my point is papers dont tell how they hunt. they are there for the pupose of a breeder to make money imo...

Papers don't find hogs but I bet that majority of the folks that post on this board, THAT have puppies and dogs that are sought after, have some kind of recorded lineage of the dogs history and breeding of bloodlines- "PAPERS" is a way of keeping records, it just like anything else can be abused, cheated, lied about. Inegrity of the breeder and the individual you ge those "papers" from has alot to do with it.

Dogs with the "right" papers/lineage will give you the upmost percentage of oppertunities to consistently go and find what ever you are looking for, its called "research", and those that are passionate about what they have, raise and reproduce, do CARE about that lineage

Mike was the first to say "papers dont catch hogs" ;D but I bet you can find several posts about how many hours of conversation was spent back tracKing those bloodlines of dogs that he owns on his yard, and I bet he has it all written down on "papers" today!
WIth good reason, if you had those dogs you would want to know where they cam from and ho wmany folks have been trying to guard and care for their passion for generations, a truely good honest working dog.

I have some of mine registerd with registery, some are just in my computer but they have many generations of dogs to back that up, and that what I have "papers" to relay that info to the net individual that may be as passionate about my line of dogs as I am and may use what I worked with and take it to the next level in their own name, but if they have any integrity they will honor where it all started from on that paperwork and hope it will still be around when I am dead and gone.

MMMMMMM papers? Couldn't care less.!!