EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Ok guys, my mom is new to all of this, and asked me several questions tonight while we were talking that I didn't know how to explain. Can y'all help me?

She said that she completely understands why we hunt pigs, and that it needs to be done.

Her only hold backs are A) she feels like some of the pigs are tormented just because they are stupid pigs, and B) that many people just say screw it, cull, if a dog doesn't work instead of trying to find it a home where it could live and be happy.

How do I explain to her that most of the time, we do respect the pigs as a living creature, and don't cause unnecessary pain?
And how do I explain the reasoning, and why's of culling?  I completely understand, and agree that culling is necessary, just am not sure how to explain why... Does that make sense?

wow this is new...

well: A) its due to some "people" take it out of their way to torment a pig and then make it public, then PETA uses it as gas in a already burning fire. these people make us look bad.

B) culling really is hard to explain cause nobody can really understand it but another hunter, ive culled my share, im sure everyone has. its just cause we want the best of the best, and we dont wanna feed a extra mouth that wont put food on the table so to speak

Well, here is how she feels about culling, whether it be right or wrong, lord I REALLY do not want a fight started here...

She feels like if you are going to breed a pair of your good dogs, and say only 2 pups out of 8 come out as decent pups, you still made the commitment to all 8 pups to care for them for their entire lives, and what gives you the right to take it away?

NOW I want it known, that while I can't explain the reasoning behind culling, I do agree that it is necessary, and must be done.

To me culling can be as simple removing from the gene pool. Spay/neuter and find a pet home.
Dog or human aggression equal euthanasia for me.

Circle C, I AGREE with you 100%, she just feels like more hunters euthanize than rehome? Is that a fact, or is she being misinformed?

agree its not killin the dog or dumping it out somewhere, but yet again its these "people" that do that and it makes a bad rep for everyone else

now the aggresion yes, i would take it to the pound and tell them its a hard dog and if they cant find a rightful owner to do what they gotta do

Cull means clip it and find a pet home.

Have you seen what a hog does to itself. Plus look at a boar when you catch it. I think they enjoy it in a perverted way. This is a public forum that children can read so I will not explain it in detail.

I don't really care if anybody likes it or me. Most people that are against it either have no clue at all or they saw some crazy video of some fool.

Dub, help me out buddy... I am trying to get my mom on our side, Right now she is still on the fence.

tiny my gfs family is on the other side of that fence....

I really don't know. For what its worth, I have euthanized an entire accidental litter. I didnt want to put a bunch of pups out there that I don't want, and I figure if I don't want one of the pups, nobody else would. Hunters, non hunting breeders, any "respectable" breeder of dogs knows that culls occur. It would be a wild guess to say how most hunters handle their culls, but I can say that if you look at the dog trade, you will see that a large number of culls are sold rather than euthanized, or placed in pet homes.....

 .

Trying to find a dog a new home is good but can be very hard at times its always worth a try but sometimes culling has to b done its something that is best unmentioned or not talked about with most

What is causing her to feel that way Tiny?

There are times when euthanizing can be more humane than rehoming.  If I sell or give away a substandard dog, then that dog could very well spend it's life being handed off from owner to owner and never really finding a "home".  Also many hunting bred dogs are just not suitable to be a pet.  They may have a ton of energy but no drive to hunt,  making them useless to a hunter and a liability to a pet owner.  I also feel responsible for a dog that I give away.  For example if I had a dog that I was not comfortable to have around kids, and I gave it away and it bit somebody I would feel terrible.  And responsible.  I would rather see the dog put down. 

Before I deployed I had two dogs that I liked, but really didn't fit what I wanted in a hog dog.  Decent dogs at what they did, just not "wired" right for my tastes.  I could have just put them down, but gave them away instead and last I heard they were doing fine for the new owner.  I think a lot of hunters will try to find a place that is a better "fit" if they think a dog is worth keeping.


How many would consider rehoming to be culling? 

Ninja, honestly, I think it is because of what happened to Garin, that bmc male I got from Nogalus boy. Donny found him on an oilfield sight literally at death's door, so he picked him up and saved him, but he wasn't able to hunt, so I took him. Well when I got him home, I took him to the vet, and they thought he had some neurological damage, so we took an xray, and sure enough, he has bullet shrapnel in his brain... He has made a GREAT house dog, sleeps with me every night, and has gotten very protective, but in the bay pen he is mostly a "me too" dog.

He could have been the result of a weekend warrior property owner putting a bullet in him, or a deer hunter thinking he was running the deer off his feeder.... hard to know that he was actually "culled" by his previous owner based on the info in the above post. ???

Circle C, I agree with you. My mom is just convinced that he was culled be he has not shown a real interest in hog, both in the bay pen and in the woods with me.

SHEESH... MOTHERS!!!  rolleyes

Heck, if her mind is made up, I wouldn't bother trying to explain it to her.

For what it's worth, my mother is a UT alum, tea sipping hippy, bleeding heart liberal (she claims to be independent, but that's BS)  She knows that we need to use the dogs to hunt hogs, and she doesn't give me any grief over it, she just doesn't want to be a part of it... That arrangement works out just fine. ;D 

Have to agree with Circle C on this one Tiny. People believe what they want to believe. Even mothers.

Tiny,

Like previously stated, culling can mean lots of things like placing in non hunting homes etc. etc.

Does your mom eat pork, beef, and or chicken? The way I see it people need not be having a double standard. And if they are vegetarian that is ok too just don't try to force it on others.

 Mother nature is the hardest when it comes to culling.... We all need to look at the big picture and not get tunnel vision. Some folks walk around with rose colored glasses.

I am not trying to be rude nor harsh just speaking the facts as to how I see them.

x 2 rueben . and look at it this way , if an irresponsible breeder decides it no longer has use for a dog is it right for him to dump the dog off to starve ? or to be a burden on somebody else ?

   is it right to take it too the pound , thow em in a cage only to be killed after so many days, at the expense of the taxpayer ?

 i say hell no !

   if you have a problem culling dogs that nobody will want ,then you dont need to be breeding , there just aint enough homes for them .

  its kinda harsh but so is the real world . and some of us still live in it .

Speaking of mother nature.  My friend had her little pet toy dog scooped up and killed by a hawk this weekend. I'd rather catch a bullet, than being eaten alive by a hawk.

BINGO , a well placed bullet is the most humane way to go , the subject never feels a thing . even with lethal injection or electric chair their is some sort of pain .

  the human  "culls " they use to " hang by the neck until dead " .

It all goes back to what a old friend of mine told me"never tell a woman everything you know" cull and move on.

you know , even if an ostrich sticks its head in the sand and can' t see the lion coming , it aint gonna change what happens .

  alot more people are acting like ostriches these days .

 Yea, but some of the "Ostriches" have lots of money and can use their money to influence politicians to pass laws that are not in our best interest.   :(   Just sayin.....

Tiny, you know I like you, so take this with a grain on salt, or a shot of patron  ;) but the thought that we commit to care for them fir the entirety of their natural lives is the faulty reasoning. Does a rancher care for all cows till they die of natural causes only then making burgers? Does a farmer wait till apples fall to the ground to harvest them and send them to HEB? Does an employer have  a commitment to employ you until yo choose to retire? We use working dogs, if they don't work, they get fired. Whateveryour means of firing is your business if the dog would mke a good pet good. If not, whave a responsibility to our fellow man not to pass on a working bred cur dog to a world of folks used to the family Labrador.

T-Bob, I completely agree with all of y'all! My mom is never gonna know this, but I am gonna cull on Grace's litter hard, for two reasons. One, because it's her first, and Two because this was not a planned litter so only the best of the best is gonna stay around.

My mother is just one of those soft hearted, rose colored glasses, love everything people. I love her to death, but I can't say she is always the most reasonable person.

HEY if you dont want one ill take one!!!! lol MAYBE. I like your dogs.

I like how you explained it T-Bob... :)

tell your mother to look at the hard facts. How many dogs are in shelters and the millions that are now in "private rescues" where folks are actually more like hoarding actually find happy healthy fulfilling lives?

Quality of life is the biggest issue for me, do you want to live longer or better? just because a dog is alive and living crated or kenneled 75% of its life its happy because a HUman thinks enough to save its life? Come on, its a dog and dogs don't think with human emotions, They have a few simple basic needs, PEOPLE are the ones that make life complicated and dramatized, give a dog a job, companion, and plenty of excersise and acess to clean water, and most are balanced dogs.

Here is what "so called Humane societies" argue that there are so many dogs that need homes, PET OVER POPULATION, you don't have working dog over population, because the (most) working dog people are realistic and know that not ever home is equipped and prepared to give a "working bred dog" a home that serves its energy needs, these dogs become problem dogs that will end up in a shelter or dumped on a country road  where it can "run" Realistic working dog people know that their are not enough adequate homes for all dogs. I have placed many "culls as pets" and alot of retired hog dogs, but the facts are there, not enough good responsible homes.

Most pet bred dogs are not able to do "the  job" that is required to be a top notch hunting dog, some are, however, "humane societies" will not adopt to hunting dog people because they have their head up their a$$ and believe hunting is cruel, and you have to try a dog to find out if it will work, they don't takre returns without labeling you, an unfit owner, because your not willing to sacrifice a "forever" home to a useless pet that eats and takes costs just the same to care for as does a good dog. If shelters offered trial periods to find a dog that suits you and would adopt to hunters then it might give more dogs a chance to have "life".

Euthanize those problem dogs and unhealthy dogs. Educate people and quit taking away their dogs and putting them in sheltersmake them do it right, take away their food water and shelter if they can't provide for responsibilties.  Educate peolple about breeding inferior dogs because of health and temperment. Most dogs that go into shelters don't make it back out. They become ill, or develope temperment issues being in that situation, or just flat run out of time.

I spent a couple of my young years working in these "so called humane societies" as  a euthanasia technician, I promise you in my mind they are not very humane if you have any clue of the phsycology of what a dog is about. I despise the whole vicious cycle that they go through.

Now I ask you if Culling is more Humane, I say "YES" it is when I have seen first hand from both sides of the fence, and so do humane sociaties or they would not "humanely KILL" so many animals every day of the week.

The other arguement why breed then?, well is it not my right to breed for better quality, horses or dogs, or should I be the oneto have to go use somebody elses crap that they turned out when I feel that I have a thourough understanding of what it takes to make a better animal? Its my opinion maybe but its still not my right? or should the goverment be allowed to decide what is good for me? what kind of dog or horse I should own?
Form follows function a dog that genectically is able to hunt and work to the level I expect will be a healthy individual and its almost like the natural selection that would happen im mother nature. Not like breeding fancy dogs that look really neat but have health issues that require human intervention to keep it alive. Do designer dogs deserve to be bred because somebody thinks they look cool on their lap? Or should we all have to wn accidental mutts that are provided by shelters with animal rights nuts telling us what we should and should not be allowed to have as  far as a canine?

Believe me, it kills me sometimes to have to cull, but I kmow in the bottom of my heart that I am doing whats best for the pack, the whole, the greater good of the ret of my animals and definately for that animal, when I make that decision. There you have it from a womans point of view that has experience to speak from both sides of the fence.

OUTSTANDING POST uglydog!!!! Thank you!!!!

The crazy thing is the Animal Rights people will be the first to abort a baby.

X2 couldn't have said it better.