EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have been reading some posts and I find it kind of odd that many guys on here are WANTING the rough catchy type dogs. This is the type of dog I have had for 25 years and am trying to breed AWAY from. Almost all of my old dogs would bark 1-2 times then try the hog. If they got slung off they would bay but if the hog broke, they would catch .If you put 2-3 dogs on the ground, it was just a catch..no bark at all. I had cut dogs, wrecked dogs, big vet bills, down time due to dogs recovering, etc for so many years I decided I needed more bay and less catch. I am "trying" to breed some of those now. I don't mean the loose baying from 20' away dogs, but I don't want a RCD either. I want a dog gritty enough to stop a running hog (by that I mean put teeth on him) but when the hog stops to fight, I want the dog to bay him, not catch and hang. I am talking about a 150 lb hog or bigger. If its a 50 lb pig, catch it. I don't want a dog that will bay a 25 lb shoat.....

A lot of the places I hunt are thick woods. I don't hunt open pastures or farmland and it takes a while to get to the dogs sometimes (most of the time). Plus I am not 20 years old anymore, so it probably takes me a little longer than it would some of you younger guys. All the more reason I want more bay and less catch.....

Is it just me, or is there someone else on here that thinks the same way???

Most of my dogs are on the rougher side and will try any hog more than once.  I like a good bay, but most dogs with time will learn what hogs they can handle if they start out rough.  All my dogs so far are rough, but I don't have an established bloodline like you do so it's hit or miss with my dogs.  Some might be some may not.  At least them ol FL Curs look good whether they are rough or not. ;D. Mine are just ugly 24/7.

For many years I bred mtn curs that with 1 or 2 could catch big hogs because they put enough pressure to stop a hog and then just keep him bayed. But more than 1 or 2 dogs would either catch or they would bust the bay. These type of dogs never bayed more than 1 hog on account they would be too rough. Even though I knew this I like gritty dogs and ran 4 or 5 because that was my preference. I had vet bills (sometimes) but sometimes down time after 1 caught hog.

These dogs work best in the winter when the weeds are down or when the hog is jumped in the open.

Like I said though, these dogs worked best hunted alone but not more tha 2 at a time.

I am one of those that want more grit and less hogs breaking. I still want dogs with more nose for trailing and winding and also want dogs to not give up a track but to stick with it and find the hog and hold it at his first oppurtunity. Time will tell if it is the right thing for me...or not.

I am hoping to have pups of both styles born in my back yard in the next month and breed from there.

I ran a pack of T-Rex's for a long long time.  The Vet bills drove me crazy.  I spent as much time sewing up and doctoring dogs as I did hunting.  Now I got to say we caught hogs buddy big big hogs there was not a 300 pounder safe in the woods when I ran these dogs and it stopped all the running hogs but the prices my dogs had to pay and I myself had to pay just got to be way to much.  These dogs were not short range dogs either they went were the hogs were 50 yards out in the corn patch are 5 miles down the road didn't matter.  You got these kinds of dogs you have to b there quick are else !  So I took all these old dogs of mine and I said nuff is enuff and I started knocking the catch out of them not the grit but the pure catch and today I can say am glad I did have not had a vet bill since I done this and really have not had a dog cut really bad bad since .  They got the stopping power and will drag one down then back off bay him tight as it takes to keep him there till I can get there.  It took doing a couple different breedings to get just what I wanted I had to fine tune it some but it has all worked out for me .  I love it now I don't have to break my neck trying to get to them and feel confident the hog will be there when I get there and without Wrecked dogs!

The dogs I bred before caught and released a big boar until I got there and then I had the choice of whether I wanted the dogs to catch for me or to just shoot it. After a few years I learned that shooting was always better when I had 3 or more dogs on a bad boar on account of keeping injury to the dogs at a minimum.

My plan is to run vests on all my dogs...but like I said, time will tell if it is really what I want. Like always, it takes me a long time to finally make a decision of this type or even when making a breeding with 2 dogs...  ;D :) It drives my wife crazy when I do this but the right breeding/dogs require a lot of thought before making a decision of this magnitude... ;D ;). Besides, it is the fun part of every day living.... :)

i agree mark , i dont mind them catching something they can handle .

 i dont want a dog that i think i have to run to to keep him from getting butchered.

i dont want any dogs that chase around a 75 lbs shoat for hours or even minutes .

there are still some dogs , in places that know how much pressure it takes to make one stop and bay , and at the same time know how much room to give to keep a hog bayed till you get there with help ....  thats the kind i like to feed , i wish they grew on trees lol .they're out there but you wont see 'em advertised on the web .

x2...Now this is the perfect bay dog. one that can wind, bay, trail and stay on a hog until it is caught. This dog can be free casted or rigged or  road hunted. He should hunt with you and circle 2 -5 hundred yards around you and check with you every 10 minutes or so. He should bark 2 or 3 times when locating a track and draw in the other dogs and these 3 barks will alert you. The dogs will then run silent until hog is bayed..

WHETHER IT BE ONE DOG OR FOUR DOGS THE DOGS ONLY PUT ENOUGH PRESSURE TO KEEP THE HOG BAYED. WHERE DO I FIND THESE DOGS???
I have seen 1 or 2 dogs do it but more in a pack tend to be catchy or push the hogs to break bay. I am not saying that a pack of 3 or more dogs are not out there, but I don't know of any. These dogs will catch a sow or a shoat but might back up and bay a big boar.

I think there is a fine line....

i love rough catchy dogs even better off the hood . i dont like a hog race but i do get out ran i also run vest and my vet bill isnt bad,but were i live we dont have to many toothy hogs.but i will say that there are places to hunt with out rough dogs all you need is loose bay dogs,but thats why iv got 26 dogs, but all styles of hunting work some faster and some slower. this is what i like about this sport is hunting with different people and learning from what they do if its right or wrong.its kinda like fighting roosters i take in what works for me and through the other stuff away.

Yep...  ;D

I still run vest on all of mine .  They are still very ruff just not catchy till I can get there are if the catch dog goes in.  What I like is I can shoot over my dogs are run a catch dog don't matter.  I agree different dogs for different situations you run into. Some places you can run one two dogs other times you might run five six .  It does take a lot of time to breed what you want.

Vests for rough dogs and no vests for dogs that just bay that is the way I see it anyways.  I like my rough dogs but they are shorter range and in all reality tring to add some catch to them that I can turn out at first hint of pig

The rougher the better.  I like em to try the hog first then bay if they have to until another dog gets there.
I don't run cut vest's or collars. I have some down time every now & then but not to much.

I believe a good Florida cur should know when to come off and bark. but they still need to be "rough" enough to attempt to catch and hold "any" hog when told. This, in my opinion, is what sets our curs apart from most others. ;)

I would have to agree that's how most good FL curs are... but that's a main trait I'm trying to breed out of my dogs... keep the rough... lose the catch...

I don't mind draggin' a bulldog along if it means my curs last a bit longer...

x2

I have both but do agree on rough dogs!  Sometimes it feels good to catch the hog and not be out all dang night!  Just find and catch load up for a quick hunt!  Even tho my wife says she hasn't seen a quick hunt yet! lol.  Famous last words!  How long you be out?  NOT LONG!!  LOL  Or better yet,  you off yet?   Yes I came to make a quick run at the hogs! 

i run a straight pack of bmc they are plenty rough i suit them up in vest and let them go they are short range but you need a garmin to find them they are all catch big hog or small its all the same to them

the chain is only as strong as the weakest link :D

The three Fl curs ive had were ROUGH.  They generally try it themselves if its 150 or so but over the years learn to back off and bay anything bigger.. But you let 2 of them get to the same pig and its game over,  They are GOING to catch..  I dont normally mind it but id at least have them let me get there first..  bulldogs are a heck of a lot cheaper to get and train..

 It aint just you Mark!
I like the way you are headed with your breeding and I think you may get were you want to be faster than you realize with the dogs you have.  ;)

I have been keeping up with TexasHogDogs since I have been on this board. In my opinion, judging from his post, I believe he has bred close to the best of both worlds in his dogs. Jim, I remember how excited you were in that thread about your young dogs baying that big boar just like you wanted! lol. Heck, I was celebrating with you! lol. Seeing the breeding pay off in your dogs has got to be a heck of a feeling!

Dogs bred like this (loose baying, just rough enough, etc, etc) in general, are the most productive hog dogs in my opinion. They just dont use themselves up on a few hogs like I have seen rough dogs do and they are very rarely nursing wounds and cuts. A few hogs in a hunt is fine unless you are hunting hog polluted farm country.
I have seen some fine rough dogs in my day. Flat out hog catching machines that I would feed and hunt right now. They just spend a heck of a lot of time on the injury list if they are still living is all.   

The rough dog mans matto............Catch a hog, stitch a dog!  :D
 
 

Boarninja,

You are right about what a good hog dog should be... It should be rough enough to stop a bad boar and then back up and bay/hold the hog.

To rough and you catch a boar and then the dogs are wore out from being caught too long or worse from going to the injury reserve list for a week or 2.

I have been wrestling with this issue in my head for years. I have decided to go extra rough with running vest and at the same time breed away from it until I am satisfied with what I have. I have already decided that I want nose and lots of hunt not just a dog that gets turned in on a hog but a dog that can find one.

The problem I see with this type of dog is that when he finds a hog at the end of the track he could be far away and that will be a problem. I have seen these types that don't bay but straight catch. That will be a cull for sure for what I envision...That is a catch dogs job.

Reuben,

I can appreciate your breeding plans. From Bull Arabs to Rottweiler crosses, I have seen all types, shaps and sizes get it dont. I can think of a few recent situations that had me thinking of a dog just like you are breeding for. Im looking forward to seeing what you come up with. You may never even quit get to where you want to be with them but I bet you catch plenty of hogs on the way. Then again, Im thinking you will pull it off.

I own 2 dogs one pit and one bmc (mears) bred.
1) i believe having the 2 dogs, sharing the same yard only got the bmc ruffer.
2) i also believe hunting 1 dog helps the ruff dog live longer = learn where and when to catch.
3) I believe genetics will be passed over from ruff dog down to its siblings however correct training when where and how is critical on how ruff the dog will turn out.
Think of it, I now i want my dog to stop a hog when its running however if you have a dog that stops a large hog by the ear in the thick stuff do you really think its that easy for him to let go and then go into a bay? its probably easier to stay latched on.  Dogs that stop runners that dont ear the hogs that go into a bay after the hog has stopped are usually hammers or ballers which among  must hog hunters are considerd week. My dog has stopped several larger hogs 350 and up running by the ear and then has gone into a bay, he also has bayed earless hogs that were in the 250lbs range but 95% of the time its 1 or 2 barks and caught hog. Im just saying when where and how the dogs get trained are probably just if not more important than the breeding.
By no means do i think im an expert but from my experience on the field this is my opinion.   

Interesting opinion you have there... I am tending to agree...

No more hogs than we have here if you do get on them and don't have something putting teeth on um you ain't gonna get one thay will run all night thay no what dogs are about so I have to have rough dogs. I love them  ^-^

I will take two loose baying dogs over a pack of rough dogs any day.  I don't mind a dog getting rough until the hog is stopped, but then I want him to back up and bay.  I have had dogs that were as rough as they come (not on purpose, they just happened to be that way) and they are all in the graveyard.  Nothing disturbs me more than having a good bay going then ole' alligator mouth comes in and "tries" the hog, and the race is on.  Super rough dogs have broken more bays for me than they have created.

After a hunt I would rather sit on the tailgate looking at the hog and drinking a cold one rather than sewing up Butch and wondering if he is gonna make it through the four cuts and 10 punch holes in him.

I like rough dogs, but I don't prefer catchy ones.  There's a big difference, and I feel lots of people confuse the two.

I agree i got just enough grit in my yella dogs to keep on held long enough for my bulldogs to get there i prefer to hear a bay over a squeal any day thats just me though

BoarNinja,

I remember when I was so excited that day those dogs were I guess 15 months old are so maybe younger when all that happened that day.  To say the least I was worried sick cause you dont mess with perfection and those dogs were perfection when it comes to TRex kinda dogs.  The range was there. The hunt was there, the stay was there, the nose, wind , staminia the whole package.  It is a hard thing to say man I got to do something just to many hurt dogs to many dogs getting killed "3" in three years and this was with the best protection money can buy and try and figure out the best dog to cross into those TRex bitches to knock the catch out of them but not the grit and keep all the other great traits, that is the key .  It takes some people years to get it right.  I had a old stud dog that is a brother to Cole McVeays Lanky dog my dogs Deets that I thought could do me right and that is what I kept  him around for this whole time and I be danged if it didnt work !  These dogs are now 2 yrs and some a little older and they will flat make one sit down and most the time hold them till I can get there and guess what no more wrecked dogs a few minor cuts here and there but no more dead dogs are complety wrecked having to retire dogs from injuries so far.  That old Deets dog of mine I think a man could breed him to the baddest bulldog around and atleast half the pups are not gonna be catchy now gritty as hell but no catch till the bulldog gets there on big hogs.  Now these dogs will sure nuff try and catch but they got the good since to know when to back off hold and wait thats what I like.  I just like the no more dogs getting wrecked everytime I go out .

Ten staple guns a whole case of needle and thread and about 1800.00 in vet bills in one year kinda makes a mind  go crazy!  Something had to be done!

another thing about rough stop dogs with brains .... they are around longer to reproduce more of the same  ;)

I agree... that is called evolution :)

Good post Texashogdogs... 8)

Reuben ,  you can do it man just take those TRex gyps and find you a stud dog that is what you are looking for making sure that the dogs behind him was bred for the same thing that he is thats the big key.  You got to make sure that stud dog is just not a fluke and just ended up being just the right way make sure the dogs behind him were bred to be just like he is ruff gritty snatch a hog but not catchy.  I would bet some of that will carrie threw your good TRex type gyps to the pups maybe not all of them them but I would bet some will be just what you are looking for exspeicaly with the stud having a strong gene pool of not the catchy type dogs in him thats the key and you will still have your brood gyps gene pool hard in there so if you dont like them you can go right back to what you had with the pups you bred breeding them back to her line.

x2

X3