EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have a buddy that has a cur as a house pet and he brought it to the vet and they vet says he has heartworms she wants to chargge him 300 a visit and 1900 for the heart worms now from my experance with usein ivermec and my understanding it kills and prevents heartworms right his dog is a lil over a year and about 55lbs I should give a 1/2 ml to him for about three months and will this take care of them

IF she has been treating with ivomec and it be me ---then I would get a second opinion.

No he hasn't I told him about it

I think I would still get a second opinion 300 and 1900 is no small ammount of money now a days.  JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION SIR.
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From what I have read the Ivomec doesnt kill the adult worms but rather the microfilaria, the life cycle isnt complete until the mosquito redeposits it into the dog.  The adult worm lives 2 years so technically if you keep them on a good dose of Ivomec your will be OK once the current worms die off.

A few years back out Forrest dog tested low positive, the vet said it was most likely because he had been on Ivomec and offered the treatment which I refused because we knew some guys that had one kf their dogs treated and when they started using again it died....I have also read that the treatment is extremely hard on them.  I cauhht some flack from the vet but ultimately he is my dog and I did what I thought was best.  I would have never known he was positive but I took him in for something else.

I also have a 15 year old dog that is positive and to me she gets around just like one at her age should...she chases squirrels and harasses the bikers with the best of them lol.  

1900 to me is entirely too much, if its a house dog I would get another opinion if you are set on treatment and do alot of reading.

Yea when he said that he wasn't sleep over the price I kinda ezzzzed his mind with fifty for a bottle thanks alot guys I'll let him know

 I had a dog as a kid that was so infected the vet gave it 6 months and said dont bother treating it.  We gave it heart guard for a couple years and at the vet visit the vet said it had nothin.  heartworms only live two years.  Start it on Ivomec every month .1cc per ten pounds and keep it up.  if the dog lives long enough to let the adult heart worms finish their life cycle it will be fine.  The ivomec just keeps new eggs from hatchin so to speak

yep i would just give him 1/2 cc every month he is only 1 yr old they cant be that bad...keep your money :)

it takes about 6 months for the test they use to show positive...more than likely if it has them it is in Stage I at this point. hogaholicswife is correct in the lifespan of an adult Heartworm is about 2 years...however the adult worms can do damage in that time.  Keep the microfilaria and larva to a minimum with a .10cc per 10# of dog weight and it may come out just fine.  Stage II or III more than likely would need treatment and that is the going rate in these parts too.  The traetment can be hard on them.. 1/2 cc or ml would be a dose for a 50# dog...

If the dog has a good amount of heartworms and you give the normal dosage of 1/10 cc per 10 #'s, it will most likely kill the dog.  The Ivermectin actually parralizes the worm.  If the dog is infested, the dead worms will clog ther ports up.  That equals no blood flow, which means dead dog.  I know this for a fact first hand.  Try explaining this to your father in law who is upset about loosing a dog he raised from a pup.   ;)

You can treat with the Ivermectin, but you must do it very low dosages over an extended time to slowly get rid of the heart worms. 

from my experience ivermectin will kill a dog that already has heartworms, i worm all mine with it, 1/2 cc under the skin... great for preventing them, but have killed 4 outta 5 dogs with it that already had heart worms.

Can anyone point me in the direction of ANY resource or research that suggests that Ivomec will kill adult heartworms?  I'm not talking about a cousins friend who knows someone that used to be a vet or any BS like that.  I'm searching for documented proof.

look up the ingredients on heartguard or heartworm medicine that comes from the vet, or red mange treatment... ivermectin used from everything from flea control to mange to heartworms... just depends if u wanna pay the vet for a trusted tested product or take a chance on ur own... itll kill heartworms but most likely suffocate ur dog when they ball up... best used as a preventative from young age on up and mayb kill them if its not progressed very far but on mature dogs with heartworms itll either kill the dog or the worms or both. this is just my experience... best to compare the ingredients for a scientific answer

Ivermectin does not kill adult worms...so I can't point you to that document ;D Adult Heartworms life span is about two years...as long as there is adult worm in the system they will be doing damage to vessels and the heart.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/heartworm_treatment.html here is a good one I have another at home and will post it here when I get home

http://www.heartwormsindogs.net/treatment-for-heartworms-in-dogs.html
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/11300.htm

Noelle,

The active ingredient in Heartworm preventatives such as those you mention is Ivermectin (Ivomec)....it is a preventative that kills ONLY microfilaria.  I've read pages upon pages of research data...everything from the Merck veterinary manual to online discussions on common breeder forums and have found NOTHING to prove that Ivomec will actually kill the adult worm.  Some believe a regimen of Ivomec on an infected dog can shorten the life cycle of the adult worm while keeping the dog from getting worse thus letting the worms die off and pass naturally...there again no scientific proof, nor are the adult worms actually being killed by the Ivomec.

Nothing that I can find short of Immiticide has been factually proven to kill the adult worm, yet every couple of months someone comes on the site claiming otherwise.

Old time Heartworm detection test kits (which are more than likely still used by some) actually tested for the presence of microfilaria in the bloodstream.  Since microfilaria ARE killed by Ivomec, it would be very possible for a dog currently on a preventative to test negative that was indeed positive.  This is the reason it was (and commonly still is) advisable to test a dog prior to starting a preventative due to the fact that subsequent tests would result in a negative result.

For sure if I were to have a dog tested that was currently on a preventative regimen, I would question the vet on which test method was being used.

Is the rub the long adult heartworms dont show up in the tests because they are so big and likely clogging a heart or artery eating blood while those microfilla are floating around in the blood and get sucked up in the blood draw and them show up on the slide when they look at it and stain it with something???  I wonder if Levasole is still around???  Its sheep wormer with cynidie in it and we used it in the 60-70's to kill heartworm, we did not know what it did but i bet it really did kill adutls since it was basially the same thing as the vet was giving iv but in such massive doses that when it killed all of the adult heartworms in a heavyly invested dog it killed it due to too much dead worm load clogging up kidneys, heart valves other organs where they lodged when they died and the dog could not handle it???  2 weeks of 1 levalsoe pill a day cured many a dog for me plus hand feeding it and cooking it special hot food to help it not go into shock like thye always seem to do at the vets office??

If the Levasole you mention contains cyanide, it probably did the same thing.  One of the active ingredients in the drug used now for treatment (Immiticide) is Arsenic.

 

I going to look and see if i can find it online and look at the actual label ingredients, its been so long like 30 years....lol

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/anthelminticswork.html 


This is pretty kewl, says a lot about what wormers kill adult worms in sheep vs what wormer kills in the bloodstream andhow they work.  That stuff i was using 30 years ago is now used in humans and off the market it says???  Says it was for adult worms only if i read it orrectly??

I rotate mine from zimecterin gold paste... enough for a 200# horse... to 1/2 cc ivomec injectible cattle wormer...I had a couple older dogs that had heart worms when i got them and i gave them 1/2cc a week for 3 weeks as the vet instructed, 4 out of 5 died the other one is still kickin today and never showed anymore signs... I always assumed it had killed the worms and they clogged up and resulted in killing the dogs...mite have been wrong..although I would think a strong enough dose of ivomec over a period of time will kill them probably, or mayb not, but i imagine it has just as good a chance... if not  better...as anything else u can get. I have never found anything doccumenting that it kills adult heartworms and probably wont find anything definately proving it will (a) because its designed for livestock and not reccomended for dogs so not many studies would be publicized, and (b) if it was a cure for heartworms it wouldnt likely b published or the pet medicine industry would go outta business lol

I have used levasole to cure 5 or 6 dogs of heartworms. One was sent home by the vet to die. She was pregnant and had intestinal worms and the heartworms were real bad. She looked and acted like a young pup after the treatment.

The treatment that the vets use is almost as bad as the heartworms and the dog can still die of liver and/or kidney failure.

I believe the active ingredient is "levamasole" and it used to be an alfalfa looking pill and now it is a yellow pill.

I got the recipe from a vet catalog and they almost lost their liscense to practice vet. medicine because of it not being FDA approved so the association claimed. rolleyes

Recipe below:

Give a pill for each 40 lbs. of body weight once a day for 10 days.

No pills of the next 10 days


Give the pill a day for another 10 days

Rest the dog for 60 days as the worms will die off and any harsh excercise could cause too many worms to break away too soon and cause a stroke or heart attack.

If the dog weighs 20 pounds break the pill in half

if it weighs 60 pounds give 1.5 pills etc. etc.

This treatment is very safe with minor side effects if any.

100% x2...

I believe ivomec kills the heart worms in a dog but it would take away a major part of a vets income if it were researched and approved... :o ???

I treated a pitbull with a mega dose of Zimecterin and he seemed to be dying with a heart attack or a stroke about 2 hours later and I crushed an aspirin and gave it to him and in 30 minutes he was up and moving around...

ya im 99% sure it does...but its not doccumented so cant be 100% but i rarely believe what i hear or read these days anyway... it kills all worms, mange, red mange, fleas, healthy coat... put a insecticide cow ear tag on the collar and keep the flies and gnats off... happy dogs and a cheap " cure all " = a happy owner lmao... but seriously you cant expect any vet to put theirself out of an easy job by tellin you to use it instead of a high dollar treatment... its all personal preference in the end :)

give him a old penny in a piece of bread seven days in a row what a old coonhunter told me back in 1993 lol.i had a dog they diagnosed with heartworms in 1996 said he wouldnt make the year.i give him a cc of ivermectin was laying on the end of his chain the next morning i thought he was dead on closer inspection he was breathing barely he layed their in the same place for three days shallow breathing in what was like a coma i poured water down him and on the third day i come in and he was up walking around.called dvm milton theil in livingston tx asked him what he could do for ole p.d.burks he told me nothing youve done it just give him half a cc from here on out. he lived till june 11 2001 died at twelve years old.he never coughed again after he came out of his coma,found a bunch of hogs with him up until april of 2001.i dont which is better or which is worse i do know the vet aint gonna tell you the whole truth just like a cardiologist wont.i say try what you can because bottom line is he has the last name''HOG DOG'',and he got a very short life expectancy be careful how much money you spend on him cause its most likely a loss.dont get to attached cause the right ole rooter hog will put him out of buissness.
you can spend thousands and still not have a damn thing.the best or the ones you raise train and hunt yourself.just saying

All i can say is Well said big boy!!! Lol 

Can you give it to a GSP and an English Pointer

I have a Gsp male and gyp and I worm them with it...

i have given two doses to rusty my gsp and he has not complained yet

greyhound and collie breeds are the only one you can't give it to i think

Do not give it ivomec if it has heart worms. It will be dead the next day if it has heartworms and you give it ivomec.

This is just not true at all. Many factors play a role in whether or not it kills the dog such as how bad the worms are and how much u give them. And in my experience in giving it to dogs with heart worms if it kills them its a pretty fast process not a day later. As established on the first page it is what the vet prescribes for heartworms so....

Have treated one dog that had heartworms with low dose of Ivermectin. Slow process but 18 months later he was given a clean bill of heath. Not my dog but my mother in laws golden.

Just curious why does it kill greyhounds and collies?