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Title: Simple question Post by: Peachcreek on July 04, 2011, 01:36:23 pm I have been having a long disscusion on the topic of ivamec.. My question is does ivamec kill all the intestinal worms? I have been worming once z month with ivamec and strongid alternating to panacure every other month. I was told ivamec takes care of everything "rookie" ;D
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: OCD on July 04, 2011, 01:54:04 pm i use safeguard a horse wormer, and i takes care of everything
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: shankem on July 04, 2011, 02:31:37 pm jus asked a vet n he said ivomec wont kill tapes or whips. Said panacur kills whips n praziquantal kills tapes. Didnt say what it does kill but suggested a regimen similar ta yers.
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Mike on July 04, 2011, 02:32:58 pm No
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: curdogs3006 on July 04, 2011, 04:02:48 pm you are doing it just right, keep doing ivermectin on monthly basis and at least ( fenbendazole) panacur or safeguard 10% twice a year , you'll be save. :)
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Peachcreek on July 04, 2011, 04:11:49 pm thanks.... I knew what i am doing is right i mainly wanted to be able to "show" the guy that ivermec does not kill gut worms.
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 04, 2011, 05:24:25 pm .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Reuben on July 04, 2011, 07:18:54 pm Ivomec and zimecterin are the same but one is almost twice the strength as the other and they might kill other worms but I will only use it for heartworm prevention once a month. I also use it for other reasons but never for intestinal worms.
Strongid is my first choice for rounds and hooks. Panacur and safe guard are my second choices. Praziquantal I will buy at the feed store when I see tapes in the stool which is very seldom. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Cutter Bay Kennels on July 04, 2011, 07:47:00 pm Reuben,
Zimectrin Gold does in fact kill tapes. The regular Zimectrin does not. 2 different products that are approved for horses by label. An honest vet will confirm that correctly used, the Gold can be a good canine wormer. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 04, 2011, 08:53:06 pm .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Mike on July 04, 2011, 09:03:04 pm Noelle, how long have you been giving your dogs Zimectrin Gold... 20 years???
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: bighogtexasstyle on July 04, 2011, 09:07:41 pm it will kill heartworms read post on ivermectin on hog dog discussion
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Peachcreek on July 04, 2011, 09:12:55 pm I know it will kill heart worms in the infant stage, The question was does it kill intestinal worms.
I was just trying to prove my point to someone. popo Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Reuben on July 04, 2011, 09:13:08 pm Reuben, Zimectrin Gold does in fact kill tapes. The regular Zimectrin does not. 2 different products that are approved for horses by label. An honest vet will confirm that correctly used, the Gold can be a good canine wormer. Thanks, I did use th Z. Gold but someone on here did say that it didn't have enough Praziquantal in it to kill the tapes so I stopped using it for tapes. I too have been hunting dogs and have raised many litters of pups and have gone to the vet very few times and I haven't lost a dog in many many years due to not giving them the right preventative medicine or pup for that matter. So this works for me but this is only one way of doing it. I am not a rookie because I have been doing it for over 40 years but I am not an expert but I most definitely am a student on breeding better dogs, preventative health care for dogs and training dogs the easy way... Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Cutter Bay Kennels on July 04, 2011, 09:14:03 pm I know it will kill heart worms in the infant stage, The question was does it kill intestinal worms. I was just trying to prove my point to someone. popo Yes, it will kill some types, but not all. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Peachcreek on July 04, 2011, 09:17:30 pm I know it will kill heart worms in the infant stage, The question was does it kill intestinal worms. I was just trying to prove my point to someone. popo Yes, it will kill some types, but not all. cutter u are not helping.....lol Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Cutter Bay Kennels on July 04, 2011, 09:35:13 pm Reuben,
Bryant has posted that several times. He has been trying to help, and i thank him for that. I know from the bottom of my heart, he has the best intentions with his statements. That being said, all the formulas in the word don't cancel out real life experience. An engineer can study for 8 straight years on the proper use of a clawed hammer. However, the man that is on the jobsite day in day out is the one I'm taking advise from if I'm wanting to learn carpentry. Book smarts is great to have in your backpocket as reference, but everyday experience trumps it. I have personally seen a good dosing get an infested dog immediate results for the better. Followed up again within 2 days, and the hound was a different animal. I've seen this many times over. I have a lot of people come to me for advise when they need solid advise. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: SCHitemHard on July 04, 2011, 09:43:18 pm An engineer can study for 8 straight years on the proper use of a clawed hammer. However, the man that is on the jobsite day in day out is the one I'm taking advise from if I'm wanting to learn carpentry. Book smarts is great to have in your backpocket as reference, but everyday experience trumps it. x2 but dont really have enough time spent on the stuff really Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 04, 2011, 09:50:41 pm .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: UNDERDOG on July 04, 2011, 10:00:12 pm Reuben, Underdog has posted that several times. He has been trying to help, and i thank him for that. I know from the bottom of my heart, he has the best intentions with his statements. That being said, all the formulas in the word don't cancel out real life experience.carpentry. Book smarts is great to have in your backpocket as reference, but everyday experience trumps it. You sure your talkin bout me?? Not sure i ever chip in much in this type of topic :-\ Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Cutter Bay Kennels on July 04, 2011, 10:09:34 pm You sure your talkin bout me?? Not sure i ever chip in much in this type of topic :-\ You are correct. I believe I got you confused with Bryant. It probably won't be my last time doing it either. Your names are the same. Sorry about that. I modified my post. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: UNDERDOG on July 04, 2011, 10:11:20 pm No sweat ....happened before, just didn't want to be caught in the middle of a fight with no bullets ;D
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Cutter Bay Kennels on July 04, 2011, 10:15:28 pm I just did the math on the Zimectrin Gold (1.55% Ivomec, 7.75% Praziquantel) Based on the canine dosage rate of each (Ivomec - .002250 mg/lb and Praziquantel - 2.5mg/lb). The tube is advertised to treat one 1,250 lb horse based on the horse admin. rate of (Ivomec - 91mcg/lb and Praziquantel - 454 mcg/lb). Given this info, we can calculate that the entire tube contains 113.75 mg of Ivomec and 567.50 mg of Praziquantel. The ratio being 4.989 Using a 60lb dog for an example, to treat tapes the dog would need 150 mg of praziquantel (60lbs X 2.5mg). Divide that by our ratio (4.989) and to administer that amount of Praziquantel to the dog would be giving the dog 30.066 mg (or cc's) of Ivomec. A 60lb dog needs .135 cc of Ivomec. (60lbs X .002250 mg/lb). Based on these calculations, Scott is correct. To treat them properly for the tapes, you would probably kill them on the Ivomec. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 04, 2011, 10:42:41 pm .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: southtexasff on July 04, 2011, 10:57:10 pm When some of you all on here get your Strongid, what type of container does it come in. The one I get from the vet is a plastic bottle with a label that says strongid on it. It just seems the pups I got look a wormy and I have been giving em the strongid. I was kinda thinking maybe the vet kinda water it down a little to be able to get more out of the supply they sell it from. How young is too young to give a pup Ivomec
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: UNDERDOG on July 04, 2011, 11:07:21 pm I'm not Tryin to step on anybodys toes nor do I claim to know everything about anything, but my younger age don't mean I ain't been around the block a time or two either... I grew up in it, by 1983 I was sittin in a saddle feet dangling watching my pets get sewed up, wouldn't see a hog Gettin stuck by a knife or shot just for sport back then!!!! Them yello dogs mite have been $&@! Eaters but caught cows all day and Bayed hogs at nite, hooked or cut never seen a vet, got sewed up with tail hair and doctored with whatever was handy, coon hunted competitions with my uncle by 12yrs old, had sum walker and English dogs, they got doctored the same way. I'm not a vet and I'm sure some of y'all old timers and new comers can still teach me plenty, but I feel as tho I'm Bein called out and I can tie a hog cut a boar sew up a dog or doctor one as good as anyone here and do it behind some pretty good dogs with 35+yrs of breeding. I didn't just jump on here cuz I started huntin a while back and think I'm king dog doctor and hog hunter, I enjoy readin and talkin and sharing opinions with y'all but honestly things aren't like they use to be, stickin hogs or shootin them ain't my style, nor is consulting or goin to the vet, I still cut em mark em and let em go, it's kinda like a way of life to me not just the thrill of stabbing a hog, there's plenty of hogs around so if u like killin em hey go ahead everybody has different ways and they ain't none of em wrong long as it's satisfying... I just like to do my own thing it was planted in my brain as a youngun to not b wasteful and my Ol dad would jump out his grave if I killed just to do it. I'm gonna keep on doin things the way I do it and that's called an opinion, a feller without one ain't got much goin for him... I used cow wormer(ivomec) a long time and mine stay healthy, in my opinion it kills the worms, the z gold every quarter cleans up the tapes and little easier on the guts. I've met some pretty good folks and some not so good and whatever works for u works... End of story lol I don't wanna get banned from yalls site for voicin my opinion, like I said I enjoy it and I apologize for anyone that I offended... Except you peachy, Ur still a rookie Lmfao!! All bs aside I respect those older fellers that know more than me and I'm pretty sure y'all know where I'm comin from... Can go on and on for days and end up rite in this same spot so I'm gonna let it go hope to see some of y'all in the woods soon ;) Glad you can admit being wrong ;) Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 04, 2011, 11:22:34 pm .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 04, 2011, 11:28:39 pm .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Black Smith on July 04, 2011, 11:45:12 pm The key is to start them on ivomec early and stay with it. Ivomec will not kill adult heart worms.
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: SCHitemHard on July 04, 2011, 11:46:44 pm so sayin if i was to start my dog on it, hes 26 pounds.
how would i go about it? Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 12:09:31 am .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: uglydog on July 05, 2011, 12:59:50 am Quote just did the math on the Zimectrin Gold (1.55% Ivomec, 7.75% Praziquantel) Based on the canine dosage rate of each (Ivomec - .002250 mg/lb and Praziquantel - 2.5mg/lb). The tube is advertised to treat one 1,250 lb horse based on the horse admin. rate of (Ivomec - 91mcg/lb and Praziquantel - 454 mcg/lb). Given this info, we can calculate that the entire tube contains 113.75 mg of Ivomec and 567.50 mg of Praziquantel. The ratio being 4.989 Using a 60lb dog for an example, to treat tapes the dog would need 150 mg of praziquantel (60lbs X 2.5mg). Divide that by our ratio (4.989) and to administer that amount of Praziquantel to the dog would be giving the dog 30.066 mg (or cc's) of Ivomec. A 60lb dog needs .135 cc of Ivomec. (60lbs X .002250 mg/lb). Based on these calculations, Scott is correct. To treat them properly for the tapes, you would probably kill them on the Ivomec. Ivomec- is for heartworms not intestinal worms in DOGS, although it does take care of some of them some of the time, no other wormers kill heartworms, I vomec is the active ingredient in heartguard that the vets prescribe, Praziquantel is the active ingredient that kills tape worms that are caused by fleas dogs carry two different strains of tapes and if you got white peices of worm that look like rice crawling out of your dogs but, then you need Praziquantel, I don't care what the label for HORSE wormers say about it, different directins/medications for different species of animals to be efficient you need to be able to rotate between Safeguard/Pyrantel paomate (yellow colored) and Panacure/Fenbendazol/ Safeguard (white colored) which are whats need for Hook worms, Whip Worms,and Round Worms, which Ivomec is not EFFECIENT at for DOGS. Ivermectic Gold- has Ivomec and Praziquantel but to get the right dosage of Praziquantel for DOG tapes you will severly overdose on Ivomec for DOGS HERE IS A QUESTION for you why do Vetrinarians prescribe Heartguard and Heartguard Plus is number one wormer? Heartguard has Ivomec for Heartworms and also has additional wormers for intestinal worms to be EFFECTIVE Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 04:01:10 am .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Dexter on July 05, 2011, 05:04:11 am LMAO over here this am
Ill tell yall this if Uglydog wrote it on dog health she has lived it, used it on dogsand knows what works and doesnt work and to throw a wrench in the mix we use Valbazen 500 cc bottle with ivomec 10 cc and have for over 5 years , and strongit t for puppies as recomended by KD Black Mouth Curs http://kdsblackmouthcurs.com/puppy_health theres my .02 worth Dexter Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Reuben on July 05, 2011, 07:03:18 am No sweat ....happened before, just didn't want to be caught in the middle of a fight with no bullets ;D ??? ;D ;D ;D Title: Re: Simple question Post by: bighogtexasstyle on July 05, 2011, 07:07:08 am i bet you ole boys dont whup yall's dogs either probably got a shock collar lol.well i whup mine i ivermect mine i horse worm mine i dmso mine and have had to use creek bank mud or sandbar sand to stop the bleeding and sewed em up wherever and with whatever i could.i've even used the pour down the back ivermectin on some pup's once.just like deer hunting hog hunting has become a big money thing,just like anything else be it horse racing,fist fighting,or football.once you get money involved it takes the true heart out of sport.cull and cull hard if he aint no good dont say well he'll be better by this time next year.KILL THE FICTISIOUS SOB.my fondest memories are of a dog my pa had forty years ago,his name was YOGI he had a real handle on his dogs he was a cow/hog/deer/squirrel dog,you wise dog men probably aint wanting to believe that but its the truth.pa pa had this kinda handle on him.he holler huey get ahead and they was hunting cows,no bs treeing squirrels or baying hogs or running deer.he holler suey get ahead and YOGI was finding hogs,it's like he read the old mans mind.his dogs never seen no ivermect he used cow wormer in them big silver syringes.he had a handle on them dogs but them dogs were his lively hood.if one didnt make the cut he didnt leave him at the end of a culdesac or on a dirt road,he killed it and disposed of it himself.remember cull and cull hard its the right thing to do.if i've offended anyone well live and learn,before these politicians are finished we may be back to living off the land.
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Mike on July 05, 2011, 07:57:20 am I can see you two smart a$$es won't last long on here.
I guess everyone else is a bunch of idiots that don't know $hit about raising dogs... just what they read on the internet. Probably put their dogs in "time out" for acting up. I love it when people come on here, think they know everything and act like everyone else is a bunch of idiots. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Bryant on July 05, 2011, 08:13:23 am Sounds like u got all that info out of a book or off the net... It's a great theory and it looks good in writing but the ability to be technical and the ability to be practical are two different things. Noelle, In fact, I did get a good bit of that information out of a book AND off the net. Merck veterinary manual, manufacturers product literature, statistical data, etc. Then I took that information, and applied it in a practical approach. It's called research...see there...the ability to be technical and practical CAN go hand in hand. It's how problems are solved, and methods and techniques are discovered. I get worn out frequently on here by people who do things just because granpappy or 'ole so-and-so the dog man said it was so. I prefer to take the information given, process it and form my own opinion which is based on facts. Here's a fact for you. Take 30cc's of Ivomec and inject it in your dog and see what happens. That's how much you'll be giving him to properly dose worms with Zimectrin Gold. I question why your using the Zimectrin Gold anyhow if your also using straight Ivomec? When some of you all on here get your Strongid, what type of container does it come in. The one I get from the vet is a plastic bottle with a label that says strongid on it. It just seems the pups I got look a wormy and I have been giving em the strongid. I was kinda thinking maybe the vet kinda water it down a little to be able to get more out of the supply they sell it from. How young is too young to give a pup Ivomec The Strongid you should be using for your dogs is "Strongid T". Comes in different containers due to different brands but should be yellow. It is a prescription medication not availble at places such as TSC. I've posted links before on places to buy it inexpensively over the internet. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: cward on July 05, 2011, 08:38:47 am Bryant I like the way you word things even though I have trouble reading it because all the spelling and punctuation is correct .lol Bryant do you have 1 CC of ivomec I could buy from you. You will have to pay shipping. ;D
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Bryant on July 05, 2011, 08:49:30 am Bryant do you have 1 CC of ivomec I could buy from you. You will have to pay shipping. ;D Haha!! That guy was a trip, huh? Sure...I'll get the Ivomec in the mail today. And hey...long as were chatting I got this buddy just starting out. He doesn't have but about $37 to spend but needs some bay dogs, a catchdog, few collars, tracking system, vest, breakstick, dog feed, set of tires for his truck and an ATV if you have an extra laying around. I've got him covered on Ivomec. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: cward on July 05, 2011, 09:03:24 am I've got to have 40 for all that if he tries to Jew me than the price will go up to 50.lol peachcreek I could not help that One.lol
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 09:04:26 am .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: bailey508 on July 05, 2011, 09:06:30 am why cant we all just get along...lol ;D
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Bryant on July 05, 2011, 09:17:31 am And a formula sayin 30cc of ivomec is yet just another opinion So you're saying that the prescribing / dosing information on medications which requires FDA approval is just a matter of opinion? Nevermind. I'm done with the topic. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 09:31:00 am I apologize it is probably a correct formula I just never saw the directions/ dosing information from the fda on how much paste wormer or ivomec injectable was to b administered for dogs written on either box.
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 09:54:02 am .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: uglydog on July 05, 2011, 01:28:06 pm Noelle its okay to have an opinion or none of us would be here, but if you are refferring to anything that I posted about being off a box or out of a book well, honey, I will tell you I am the first one to buck the system all of what I have posted is from experience, trial and error and alot of asking proffesionals, experminting more experience, asking real life experienced people and experimenting and first hand knowledge of learning from mistakes made first hand. YOU that have attitude can take it or leave, it matter not.
As there are alot of people here that have been around many a years, and do know what they talk about, what advice I will offer you, and some of these smart little wanna B's that talking about what their grand daddys did back in the day, is that the good folks on this site are like family. Some close, some distant but there are a good majority that have been knowing each other with mutal respect for many years and alot get together and hunt afew times a year. We may not have the same dogs or opinions but we have RESPECT for each other, our sport and fellow hunters, and this is a small world and word gets around quick. Title: Re: Simple question Post by: got2catchem on July 05, 2011, 01:40:09 pm (http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/got2catchem/popcorn.gif)
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 02:50:23 pm .
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Cutter Bay Kennels on July 05, 2011, 03:01:15 pm That's great but I think it's just about been beat to death already thanks... And btw if it wasn't for grand dads as u put it you or nobody else would even be here or know about anything for that matter I'm sorry if yours didn't influence u but mine did so if absorbing knowledge from people more experienced is a bad thing then I'm just a bad person I guess. I'm glad u did Ur time and wasn't referring to anyone in general so to b so offensive must mean just one thing right? People that earn my respect get it. And as far as wanna b's I am more than happy to meet and hunt and get to know anybody here I'm not a a$$ usually but enough is enough ya know it's just an opinion and I'm not gonna change mine on how I worm my dogs I'm sorry. Several people on here hunt with me they know I'm not a wanna b and I'm not rude or disrespectful. Before u judge me get to know me first that is fair... I have plenty land to hunt u can join us if u like... And if Ur a bettin man bring cash I don't accept checks lol ;D Not sure if "SHE" bets or not. ;) Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 03:21:54 pm Hmmmmmmmm not much to say... I'm not changing my opinion however I refuse to argue or b disrespectful to a lady, u have my sincerest apology uglydog things kinda got hasty and off track a little and I am Movin on from this thread with regret that I got tied up in it and offended anyone to begin with was just a little spat between me and Travis as I said before and some things that shouldn't have been taken seriously were by other folks. I think women in the woods is a great thing and to b knowledgable of the woods and huntin is even better whether anyone else has my respect or not y'all women on here do. Again I apologize ladies and anyone else I offended with my own personal theories >:D
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Reuben on July 05, 2011, 03:43:03 pm I can see you two smart a$$es won't last long on here. I guess everyone else is a bunch of idiots that don't know $hit about raising dogs... just what they read on the internet. Probably put their dogs in "time out" for acting up. I love it when people come on here, think they know everything and act like everyone else is a bunch of idiots. Noelle, I have 2 sons and they are about your age. I always tell them it is better to lose a few battles but to win the war... Read Mikes message and figure out what he is telling you and try to see what I mean. This is a very good site and we all learn from each other right here on ETHD, it doesn't matter how much experience we have there is always something we can learn and sometimes the knowledge we aquire comes from a ROOKIE. 8) :) Mike and his Administrators run a tight ship and watch this site closely... Sometimes it is not what we say but how we say it...I think you need to review what you have posted and maybe you can see how some folks are getting somewhat offended by how you express your thoughts and opinions. Heck, I tend to be very opinionated but try to keep myself in check... ;D Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 05, 2011, 03:54:40 pm You are absolutely right Reuben and again I apologize I erased my posts from the prior pages I didn't mean any harm
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: bighogtexasstyle on July 05, 2011, 08:48:12 pm well if your right eye offends you just pluck it out.maybe i wont last long on here. neither am i saying i know all or my ole granddaddy knew all .i was saying was my point of veiw if you ole boys new me a little better youd find that half of what i say is sattire in the purest of innocence i mean no harm by my picking,and i would be the last to call someone a SMART ASS,or a WANNA BE.unlike my friend noelle i wont apologize for my opinion,it's the right my ole pa pa fought in ww ii to make sure each of us have.
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: BarrNinja on July 06, 2011, 12:31:40 am And the #1 answer for the simple question is...............No! lol
Dang Peach! You see what happens when you ask simple questions in this heat?! lol Title: Re: Simple question Post by: Reuben on July 06, 2011, 06:38:14 am And the #1 answer for the simple question is...............No! lol Dang Peach! You see what happens when you ask simple questions in this heat?! lol What wuz the simple question??? ??? My wife tells me all she wanted was a simple yes or no when she asks me a question about anything... ??? :o ;D She's the no no nonsense type and I like to kick back and talk about it first... :) I think it balances us out. ;D Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 06, 2011, 06:54:21 am Lol it was does ivermectin kill intestinal worms in dogs and the popular answer is no lol ;D it kills em in bovine equine and swine so would naturally figure it did in canines but idk I'm confused in my own theory now lol everybody says no so I'm gonna research it further I mite need to change my worming routine up
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: bighogtexasstyle on July 06, 2011, 07:27:13 am what the hell you doing up noelle it aint 10:00 am?
Title: Re: Simple question Post by: noelle on July 06, 2011, 07:36:10 am what the hell you doing up noelle it aint 10:00 am? Huntin lol text u last nite told u b at the gate at 630...Title: Re: Simple question Post by: bighogtexasstyle on July 06, 2011, 08:21:23 am hell some of us is old and go to bed before midnight
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