EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

We are all generally anchored somewhat into our own pasts while looking into our uncertain futures. 

I have always been fascinated by Old timers rymes and reasons for doing certain things pertaining to their hunting dogs. Some give very solid advice that is backed by modern research. Some is just downright comical to me but for some reasons always prove to be true as well. The question I am throwing out here is based on your personal programs, would you venture to say you are more prone to follow an Old Mans advice...or prefer to be skeptical until it can be proven in your minds as a young mans reason?

Some of the Old men pieces of advice that i have picked up for example, is

If you want more male pups..breed the gyp toward the end of her heat and vice verse for female pups. No scientific proof that I am aware of but so far has been right on for me.

Feel free to share your thoughts and instances that have guided or influenced you in your personal programs. 

Enjoy

There is a proverb in my homeland;
 
"Más sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo"

that translated goes something like this:
"The devil knows more for being old than for being the devil"

Meaning, that experience means a lot.

I listen and try the old ways ALWAYS.

I had heard this one when I ran hounds years back " The lower a hounds ears START on the side of  his head the colder nosed he will be " I don't know if I ever tested the idea but I did have some Extra houndy pups from then on  ;)

Truth be told I like to listen. I have been told some plain stupid stuff. I do the smart stuff and ignore the stupid stuff. That is the best recipe I have found for a big serving of humble pie. Now that ain't saying old people never ay anything dumb but you better stop and think about. When I ask about the stupid stuff many times I find out I am the stupid one. When I ignore the stupid stuff sometimes everyone learns I am stupid. But that is how the old men know I ain't gonna listen because neither did they. Nut no matter what you need to listen and have respect. Science changes every day and science I'd just an educated guess. I have old men to be way better than science.

Just want to see if anyone knows what spent motor oil is used for regarding dogs

Fleas, ticks, or even if they have mange

The old timers used, as they called it, 'burnt' or as you said 'spent' motor oil and sulphur as a cure for mange.

my dad and uncle use (burnt/spent) motor oil for almost every skin related problem that a dog can have, Dad has also used new axle grease on cuts. I dont ever remember one of the dogs having any long lasting problems......

my papa used mineral oil for intestinal worms, lubricates the walls of the intestines and they slide right out

x2

Also heard that dogs with rear dew claws made better dogs.

Also was told that linebreeding made for retarded pups/dogs...

Dogs with a black on tongue and inside of mouth were gritty dogs.

that's exactly right and it works but you don't want to handle a dog for a while...that stuff works too, my uncle taught me that in the early 80's. I don't do it anymore but it does work just makes your dog pretty nasty.

how about a good pinch of snuff? anybody

Snuff cures worms and French kissing

Worms and long relationships...

Interesting topic.  No doubt some of the "old timers" you refer to had a reason for doing the things and believing the things they did.  Most of what they did/do was based on years of observing the results, and also the proven logic that was perhaps passed down through generations.  What they lacked, was the scientific reasoning behind it.  For example...many of us have probably heard over the years how when the cows are grazing the fish are biting..cows laying and fish aren't as active.  That is something that perhaps people noticed through generations, but it wasn't until modern research showed that falling barometric pressure effects the digestive system of cattle and can cause them to stop grazing and lay down.  Falling barometric pressure also can negatively affect the fish bite.  See where I'm going?  People knew this all along, just didn't really know why.

I'm personally a very analytical person...I love research, and I like being able to find hard evidence for the things I choose to put trust in.  I live by the addage of believing nothing of what I hear and only a portion of what I see.  I refuse to ever believe that I should do something or believe something just because someone said it was so.  Times change...methods change and just because something was good years ago doesn't necessarily mean it is good today.

In regards to breeding animals...look at anything bred for work, sport or show.  Horses, cattle, dogs, even down to the 4H rabbits, goats, etc.  They're better today than they were years ago and there's a reason for that.  Progress is inevitable and you either keep up or get left behind.

I was told when you pick a pup (in bmc atleast) make sure every toenail is the same color and they have a knot on the head. They will make for a smarter dog. Well i have learned this aint true, but an old dogger told it to me!!!

But i do catch myself lookin for a conehead when pickin out a black mouth pup.;)

The old timers used many rememdies that still hold water today regardless of there fact or fiction as seen in the eyes of some, vet medicine has developed and reached light years past the days of old but it doesn't mean the old timers had it wrong they didn't have to justify the reason but rather knew it worked. Why in the world would you ignore some of the medical remedies of times gone by just because a man that run dogs to live rather than a hobby found out he could avoid the expense of a vet and handle these issues himself. Now I'm not saying I don't use a vet because I do but if there is a "Old Timers Remedy" that I feel will work I will use it without question.

I was told on picking a pup to do it before their weaned, to pick a smarter , easier training pup... to lay it on iits back in your hands and see if it fights to turn back over, if not inspect the mouth and teeth, and so on ..... the more you can do to the pup before it starts to sqerm out of your hands the better it is....

I brought up the same question the other day on the pot knot on the top or rear of the skull. I actually somewhat have a lil faith in this due to identifying and observing multiple dogs that strangely seem to show higher intelligence.

Again is it just happen stance or an unproven scientific answer. 

Occipital protuberance--- in the Dogo they say the larger the knot the larger the head shall be when grown, not sure that is fact either.

The old hound men around here called that the 'occiptal protuberance' a 'tree knot'....meaning that if a hound had it, he would be a lot more likely to tree than one that didn't possess the feature.....and I've found it to be somewhat true, but not to the point that they thought it was.

heard same for pits...

I can see the bigger the knot the bigger the head, that has been true to me before (not like i have have a whole hell of alot of black mouths). But i have not picked a pup with a knot on their head that has not turned out to be a good dog. Hopefully this pup will turn out... If she does then i will be a believer. This pic doesnt do her knot justice, that thing is HUGE.

(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l553/jared_wine/2011-07-17161346.jpg)

It's not how long you have been doing it but what you have learned in that time!!!!

Another example of myth or reason.

When picking a pup hold them up by the nap of the neck, if he hollars pick another and keep the ones that remain silent.

Or the runt of the litter will always yeild a higher percentage of performance from the rest of the litter. Crazy but three of my best dogs have been runts.  Haha. What is the reasoning behind this......Unknown to me.

Another example of myth or reason.

When picking a pup hold them up by the nap of the neck, if he hollars pick another and keep the ones that remain silent.

Or the runt of the litter will always yeild a higher percentage of performance from the rest of the litter. Crazy but three of my best dogs have been runts.  Haha. What is the reasoning behind this......Unknown to me.

If anybody has a knot headed runt with low set ears uniform toenails rear dewclaws and never screams when picked up by the neck AND likes dippin snuff I'll buy him off of you. :D

On picking pups a man told me once he would take all of the pups out of the dog house when they were to small to walk and kinda line them up side by side, He would then go hide and the first pup the mom picked and took back in the box was the one he would choose, he reasoning was that the gyp would pick up and care for the best pup out of survival instinct for her " pack " He believed in it 100% and swore it always worked.  ??? maybe it works, maybe not? but it is about as fool proof as any other method I've ever seen used.

 :D @ T-bob


Waylon

These are what we call once in a lifetime hunting dog... :)

Using that logic, seems it would be safe to assume if he did it multiple times she would always pick up the same one first.  Wonder if he ever tried it more than once, and what the outcome was.

Yeah I should have said so, he would do it a few times, he raised his own dogs so it was easy for him. He culled pups early based on his " theory ". I'm not sure I'd go that far but they were his dogs not mine  : 8)

I would venture to say he had exceptional dogs?

i had a hound cur cross out of decent dogs and had a pop knot, gave the dog plenty of time and chances but ultimately it did not make the cut? so some of these dont hold water in my opinion. but when an old timer speaks i do listen, but then i like to see results to really put alot of stock in it..

X2.

I also have had culls that possessed this feature. The only thing that still makes me linger around the folk lore is the amount of dogs I have seen that do turn out as rumored. On that aspect I guess I fall into Bryan's catagory of going with research and percentages. But regardless a very intriguing lil head scratcher.

There are several other pieces of advice listed so far that are very fascinating as well. Let's here a few more. No peeing on dogs heads at dinner time please!!!  Lmao :laugh:

My grandpa said to never yell at a dog or a woman because they can both hear better than you. You never hit or kick a dog or a woman because someday when you turn around they will rip you up.

If a horse bites you hit it real hard. If a dog bites you shoot it.

Only feed a dog that can go get its own food.

...

Took a young feller to an old bear Hunter to pick up a plotts pup. That youngin walked around, and around and around scratching his head asking will this  one ne gritty will this one have a cold nose and so on.
     Old bear Hunter said somethin I never heard before, he said to pick the ones thats going to have the coldest noses, feel their feet. He said the ones with the coldest feet, will have the coldest noses. He also pointed out about the inside of the mouth, or roof of mouth being black, means grit.
   All I know is hes got dang good pack of bear dogs.

Well I was 20 years old once now 50 and I can tell ya you can learn more from a well experienced veteran dog man that you can ever learn out of a book .  There may be new ways but all they are a old ways with big fancy handles now a days !

You cannot beat hands on eyes on experience !

I'm sure some of the old remedies and such were out of necessity because there was no TSC's with a 50' aisle of lotions, pastes,and sprays for every ailment. I know my dad's family was big 13 kids and they lived dirt floor poor on the red river bottoms in Arkansaw they did what they had to with what they had.

Good post. Some things passed on to me by my happy are..
Look at the eyes and you can see intelligence in a puppy.
Stick your hand in the box close your eyes and grab the first pup that you feel chances are just as good he makes a dog as any of them.
Mineral oil gets rid of ear mites.
Motor oil cures mange.
Females start later than males most times.
Genetics are the key to success but without hunting a dog genetics are worthless.
Always set the gun down 100 yards b4 you get to the truck.

Here is a picture of my puppy's noggin, looks like he is going to be a smart dog....

(http://tapatalk.com/mu/46ffae93-25e2-9472.jpg)

Jerryg

" I would venture to say he had exceptional dogs? "

you would be correct about that sir, I worked him for 3 years for the gyp I know own, it took lot's of begging and crying and whining around to get her and IMO she is far above average and has proven to throw above average pups so far, lets hope the cross I made over her and my Abel dog doesn't change that or I probably won't ever get a chance at another one like her from him.

That's actually a very curious little method. Might do some playing with the theory myself. Sounds worth while giving a good solid test run with.

I have always heard that a hound or cur dog with long ears means thay have better nose but will bark on the track also.
 Burned motor oil used for hot spots and mange.
Block head dogs with short ears are rougher.
Runt most of the time makes the best dog.
Old coon hunters always say the prettiest hounds usually don't make coon dogs.
And my grandpaw always said you can lead a horse to water alot easier then you can whip him (meaning on being a boss and work with the hands not chew there azz all the time ) I have found most to work really well.

I hope all the old timers are right. I've got a 5month old pop knot headed, double dew clawed pup that I hope makes a dog!! She was also the only brindle and bob tail out of the litter. Any old timer thoughts on that??

I hope their right also I got a 7mon old red blackmouth that was the runt and got pop knoted  head and he will already go with my grown dogs he went over 600yds the other day on a track with one of my grown dogs

AMEN x2 ---and WHO you have surrounded yourself with.

x2--- sitting down with one of these ol-timers and shutting up and just listening to them and I do mean REALY listening to them will help and teach one a great deal.  For some reason when I read this post I thought about that story about the old-bull and the young-bull--- LOL

x3...

and internet hog hunting like on ETHD's, can teach you in 2 years what could take 20 years to learn in the field.

LOL aint that the truth

There is no doubt that you can learn a lot from listening to some old timers. I love listening to some of the stories they can tell, whether it's true or not, lol.. But like a buddy of mine says, what if the old man is just stupid?   :)
We all know some not so bright people and if they live long enough they will be not so bright old people..
I do take advice from some of those who are older and more experienced than me but I also like to figure things out for myself and draw my own conclusions.. I believe what I learn from personal experience..

I recently got to meet and sit down with Mr. Lloyd Perry, a legendary dog men around the parts and the man responsible for the Black cur dog line we currently have dogs out of..

He said most hog hunters have this mental image of the perfect hog dog, most likely the best dog they have owned or had the pleasure of hunting behind.. and they are continuously trying to find "another" dog that is exactly the way "the one" was. But excluding twins, no two people are genetically the same and will never walk, act or live their lives exactly as another person. In applying this same principal to dogs, you will never have another dog exactly the same. So instead embrace the hog dog for the ability it does possess and attempt to get the most out of that ability

x2

x3...and I always say never under estimate a kid and his hunting dogs...

I've heard of from ol' timers and used with success; burnt motor oil for many symptoms, and mineral oil for multiple uses, and grease for cuts/wounds, plus many more ol' time remedys which i'm a firm believer in. Since researching my family history that my grt. grt. grandmother second gen. cajun in La. was a healer back in the early 1800's using herbs/roots,etc. learned from the indians locally. Not only survied but saved many others thru 2 yellow fever epidemics.

Wilton,

I had the pleasure of being around my gfather that was born in 1882 and he used those remedies you talk about.

I remember he would use cob webs and turpintine or white has on our wounds on our animals. Some called it lamp oil. Smelled like petroleum distillates to me.

About the only medicine he bought for himself or his livestck was a liquid in a square looking bottle called VOLCANIC OIL and that smelled like distillates also.

I like CUT HEAL for almost every type of cut on my dogs and it smells like distillates and fish oil... :) If it didn't smell so bad I would use it on me...

I heard pick a pup that has 3 hairs growing from the mole under there chin, all dogs have them and he said the pups with 1 hair wont make as good of a dog. So look at your best dog and see if there may be some truth to this.

I am 67 and have owned alot more bird dogs (well over 200) than I have hog and squirrel dogs. Some of the guys I hunted with when I was a kid were old men then and long since dead. One guy used to take a buggy 16 miles, hunt quail all day, 16 miles back and then clean birds. They would tell me about the days when they did not have any vaccines and many a good dog died from destemper. Some of the things they told me and I have found them to be true.

A dog with dark spots inside their mouth have better noses than the ones that don't.

Mix a cup of tannic acid in a quart of pine tar --t as a coating for pads. Absolutely the best thing I have ever found.

A dog with dark pads has tougher feet than ones that light colored ones.

I don't like rat headed dogs.

Mix white vinegar, alcohol, and enough 7% Iodine to make it the color of stout tea and use it for ear mites.

A dog with a lower set tail on its hind end has more muscle and drive than a dog with the straight up poker tail.

Pick a dog with a tight foot not one that is sloppy an spread out.

If you can get a dog out of a proven repeat mating it would be good.

You cannot fool mother nature in your breeding program.

I still use terpentine, pine tar, and kerosene for cuts and such. I never use anything on my dogs that I won't use on me.

My daddy got snake bit in 1907 by a copperhead at about 5:00 in the evening. All they did is put coal oil (kerosene or no 1 diesel) on it because the doctor did not get there until after 9:00 that night. That is all they had. His hand, arm, and entire left side of his body swelled up (he was 5 at the time) and the doctor really could not and did not do anything. He finally got OK.

There is no substitute fer experience.

 old timer told me that when my dog got bite by a copperhead that his front leg was swollen the softball to give him a quart of milk and cup of bacon grease now and again in 2 hrs for the swelling and poison ..4 hrs later all the swelling was gone.. dont know why he didnt saywhy it worked but it did ...

Just because some guys have been doing it a long time don't necessarily mean that they know jack about dogs. Seen lots of guys older than me that had been around them all their life and still did not know anything.

I used to hunt all the time with this guy alot older than me. His dogs never were very good and were gettin old. I gave him a male out of some good breeding and several dogs in the litter made good dogs. However, this was not one of them. I told him that just because I gave him the dog did not mean that he had to keep him until he went on old age pension. The dog was worthless.

I came across a great little female that was a sure enough dog and would have been perfect for him. I green broke her and all she needed was hunting. What does he do? Gives her to a guy that works for him and she gets run over. The dog he kept was not even on that same planet with the dog he got rid of.

Then I gave him a real good setter pup out of a outstanding proven breeding. What does he do. Names her Hillary--this was Clinton was in office. Words could not describe how bad this chapped my behind. I swore then he would never get a dog from my kennel period.

This is good stuff right here... :)

My buddy's great grandfather who is closing in on a hundred now has always told us that kerosene is a cure all

I guess it works I've always been to big of a wuss to try it though. Lol

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

best piece of advice an old timer gave me was to always keep a open mind and a closed mouth when somene was giving you a piece of advice, it was up to you to use it later on if you wanted....i have found that it works wonders i could sit for hours and talk to old timers and swap stories and remedies....best thing i ever did was use that piece of advice as my motto for everything, whenver someone is telling me something i listen and then think about this persons personal experiences and what kind of reputation he and his dogs have and listen to things that worked and dint work for each individual and try to piece together the best game plan possible for me im always swapping stuff up and trying new techniques the PROVEN tchniques these old timers have used with success over the years and as of right have assembled a decent pack of dogs and learned to exploit each dog for their own unique talents that each brings to the table and cant say its ever been better and ive bee hoghunting going on ten years now and just now fnaly starting to make things click and making sense of things

Well said Mr. Goose... :)

Pore kerosene on a bleeding cut and it will burn for just a little bit but you won't get an infection or lock jaw. At least that is how I remember it back then...

My wife and I used to buy hound pups from an old man in Cushing Oklahoma years back when we first got married. He always had a yard full of hounds tied out. I asked him some questions once about his breeding program and he laughed me off and said he would unsnap a gyp when she was in heat and leave all the males tied out and what ever male she bred to so be. His pups always did make good hounds to, he also let pups run loose until they started treeing on there own, that was his training program for the first year or so, after that he would trash break them or sell them to men who hunted what ever the hound preferred, be it deer dogs, coyotes what ever. He sowre by the idea of letting the gyp choose her own male, kinda like the gyp picking the strongest pup out of a litter, maybe something to there old ways?

One of grandpa's old cowboys was rambling on to me and I did not have a clue what he was saying. So I just kept saying "yes sir" when he stopped talking. Finally he walked off and my grandpa came over. My grandpa told me that the old cowboy was a hard worker but did not have a lick of sense. Then he thanked me for treating the old cowboy with respect. To me I do my best to not be rude even if they don't make sense. Just the other day I was getting way outdated advice but I listened anyway and I actually learned something. Wisdom is not the same as smart. You can get smart by reading books and stuff but wisdom takes time and experience. There is no fast wisdom. I can listen and get smart but wisdom comes with knots on the head and just plain hurts sometimes.

Awesome thought. I actually have heard the exact same practice but used in fighting chickens. Let you hens run loose on the yard and let them pic the rooster. Very interesting idea.

very well said

x2...treat others like you want or expect to be treated.