EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

O.K. hope I can get this out where it makes sense.
 Female


              Trouble
Jewel
               Becky


               Sam.           (which is belly bro to jewel)

Pete
              Becky            same mother


I would think this would be too tight. what say you?

Polly not but really depends on what's further behind them.

NOPE.  As long as you liked the Becky dog I would sure enough do it.

There is couple other half brother and half sister on back.
   Yes, that Becky dog is a keeper, so is Pete and jewel.

if there are not any other repetitive names in the pedigree, this may tighten out the genetics and do pretty good, I would keep most of them until at least a year old to make sure that there are no major skeletons stored in that closet of genetics.

Stephen, Becky is out of that rowdy dog I was tellin you about. There are a couple repetatve names on papers but I dont have them in front of me.
Boones plott spike, which is a Crockett dog, Marney, and other Burnside dogs, I just glanced at the papers, half asleep last night.
    I might have to get back with ya'll.

I say it is ok to make this breeding...just make sure the dogs are keepers that will be bred and then cull the pups hard.

so is sam becky's son?

tryin to read it here but no coffee yet

Yep

not really we used to breed them like that, best son back to mother then father out of the son/mother litter, to help keep what line we want and drive we want as a center focus

Bred tight is bred right! What do you have to lose?  ;D

nope...

I believe that line breeding and inbreeding is the fastest way to get there,good or bad...but good only if you pick the very best dogs for breeding and then must pick the very best pups for the same reasons...I think that is where most of us go wrong...there shouldn't be any compromising...

but there can be an exception every now and then but only after it has been well thought out...

example:
exception 1... let's say when starting the program one of  the dogs to be bred is a fair hunting dog but not great, but they are from an exeptional line of dogs...breed the dogs and then pick the best pups and only use the best parent for breeding with one of the pups or grand pups. Turn over rate should be high at first to purify the strain and then can hang on to the dogs longer once you get the breeding where you are ok with it.

example:
exception 2...you lose the main female or male but the next male in line is not of the highest quality...I would use this lower quality male before even considering a top dog of another line...

once the blood gets tired freshen it up with a dog that has some relations if at all possible but must look further back before making the decision to breed it in to the line. The dog to be used must come from a good line of dogs and should bring a strength that your line of dogs might lack.
The pups from this cross must be looked at with a critical eye and only the very best can be used in the program for breeding...but first you must analyze the whole litter to see if this cross nicked otherwise get rid of all the pups and find another dog to breed to.

Lets say the cross worked...now select the very best pup for breeding and do not use the parent that was used to freshen up the bloodline , otherwise you will not have a line- bred line of dogs...

 my opinion...but it has worked for me.

I would say it is not too tight. Tight is good, and it is also the quickest and easiest way to find out what you really have. When you start tightening up you will see.characteristics start coming out from back in the line. If you like the dogs breed them.and use them.

I don't think it's too tight as long as those dogs have just about everything you want in a dog, especially the becky dog..

nope, but I would expect either some good ones or some bad ones and maybe some of each, breeding before last had some weirdness show up, all gone now. compounded traits are really compounded,

I would try it also should be ok some one posted this link on here before it can be used for food for thought
http://www.czerwonytrop.com/inb/index.php?full=ok&lng=en

My Catahoulas are bred real tight. Plenty of Aunt x nephew, neice x uncle, Grandpa x grand daughter etc. They have been bred back and forth like this for generations and generations . This line of dogs came from the Sandhill line and Koon lines. Two of the oldest Catahoula lines known of. They were all around versatile Catahoulas. Some were Hog dogs, Some were coon dogs, some worked cattle, Some were bay pen champs, etc. Their good traits were locked in because of this line breeding. A few weak traits were starting to get locked in as well. Always wanting to improve on the Catahoula breed, This breeder friend of mine brought in a male out cross. Casey's Tuff Enough.
This dog descended from Aden cow dog stock and is the son to Lee's Badeaux. This carefully selected male out cross improved on what was already an outstanding line of dogs. Google Casey's Tuff Enough. I always hear folks say don't get dogs out of bay dogs for Hog hunting. I say Bull number 2. If them pups com from the right lines of dogs they can do anything you want them to do, providing they are in the right hands of course. My first gyp was purchased from her 2 years ago as a pup. She was double Sandhill bred. We bred her to Casey's Tuff Enough and she had eight pups. They are 4 months old. Three are getting started hog hunting, One is started good in the bay pen world. Three are started good and  will be used for blood trailing deer.  The point I guess I'm trying to make is you have To be real selective before you breed. Only breed dogs that will improve the breed. Most folks won't take the time to be this selective. To quote another Catahoula breeder   "Pedigree indicates what the animal should be. Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be. But PERFORMANCE indicates what the animal really is."

Thanks, I was initially going to breed to another male from this same line, but having trouble getting up with the man I got these dogs from and running out of time. The thought crossed my mind to breed her  to Pete, because he is fast becoming an  exeptional bear dog, with all the traits im looking for.

Go for it!
If it works out call it line breeding!
If it's a flop it's inbreeding!!!

I hunted Omcba Mtn Curs for awhile and they breed them real tight as in littermate tight and it seemed to work out for them.

LOL, Thats what an old dog man told me yrs ago. I was waiting for a call to see when or if I could get her bred, but Havnt received it yet, so I think I will put her with Pete tomorrow.

Sounds like a good breeding to me Tom,,, and if u need somewhere for one of them to sleep, you know wherento send em!!!

I will dang sure keep you in mind Mike. We'll see what happens.

I won't give to many opinion's on this cause there are plenty already, This is one thing about linebreeding for sure I know for sure. some lines of dogs can be bred tighter than others before inbred depression shows up, some can't take much , others can be linebred/inbred really tight for long periods of time before any ill signs show up. There is no hard and fast rule and all that 59.6877564 % stuff is not the answer either, I don't care how much of a percent your dogs go back to another dog if the dog in question didn't throw there traits, some dogs are producers, some ain't no matter how tight there bred and all the math in the world won't make or break a dog at the end of the day.

Some times you just gotta try it and see what happens.

God Bless, Waylon

Thanks Waylon,

it is tight enough to produce canabalism or human aggression but u wont see any 2 heads or 5 legs,monitor behaviour early and cull hard!

tom all you really need to do is use pete as a "donor" to get male pups to breed back to the mom

Its a done deal, guess ill find out.  ;D