EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I'm sure this has been debated before on here but just a refresher...What do you prefer and why?
I have both..my main dog is loose and his pure cat son looks to be the same but I have a couple of rough suckers too..a cat/pit that is 10 months now and is cut or poked every trip (extremely rough) and a lacy/ybm that gets grabby but must jump that a rabbit because he hasn't been cut with me (knock on wood). With all the runners I've been seeing this debate keeps runner thru my mind as to the best approach to stopping these hogs. It seems the hogs out running or outlasting dogs with LOTS of bottom. As hot as it's been these hogs just don't stop..I've run 2 dogs out and up to 6 dogs out just trying to switch it up a bit to see if the hogs will stop and fight but I'm getting the same results. I'm catching several smaller hogs 150lbs and down but the bruisers are not stopping. I'm about to release a pack of pits on the bruisers..I've discussed the trend with a few people and I believe the theory I've come up with that over time we all have been catching the slow and dumb hogs now the runners and smarter hogs are breeding and we are getting smarter and more apt to runners. To combat this, styles will have to adjust and packs will as well. Just wanted some feed back on the issue...

Just had to pick that scab didn't you. ;) grab some popcorn and take bets on how many posts in the first fistfight will be challenged.

Use the search function and you can read on this topic for days....

Use what you like, as they both have their merits.

I prefer loose baying dogs, with plenty of bottom.  I  caught plenty of hogs with my old rough pack too.  The biggest difference for me, is that I don't want a rough dog hunting long range, I want to be able to take my time getting to a bay, and not worry about stapling dogs after the hog is caught.

in the open woods or open land a pack of gritty to rough dogs can keep a bad hog stopped.

In the thick stuff these rough dogs can't stop them because they can't stop what they can not catch up with/to...

Well alright fine, ill give my opinion, I seek excellence. I prefer baying dogs to catching dogs, but neither style will work if they suck.

You've seen red hunt plenty and you know him by now so lets use him. He is a relatively close baying, dog who does not use to much teeth. Some would call this loose. As far as his hunt,bottom and drive he is a bit above average, but he, in my opinion, sucks hardcore at making a boar respect him. I enjoy him and think sort of highly of him, but I'm realistic. For now I have to continue using his positive attributes the best ways I know how but I'm rambling...

Both of these styles will produce hogs but I feel too often people attribute hogs getting away to dogs being too loose or rough when in reality the dogs are just ignorant, they ain't got engh hog sence.

First off, let's narrow the "type" of hog down you're speaking of... Dog educated runners...

This, I believe, is the true test of a hog dog... The ability to produce them consistently...

I'be seen dogs of both styles that are good at it... Personally, I'd rather get it over with quick so as we can go catch more if you know what I mean  ;D

Loose with just enough pressure to keep them bayed

thats why i'm going to the hound cur cross noah . as far as dogs i want my main strike dogs to be loose because i think a big hog will stand for a loose baying dog till the rest the pack gets there and then by all reasoning it should be to late he may break but with the rougher dogs haveing alot of leg and more running ability they should be able to keep up and put enough pressure on the hog to make him stand and fight till the bulldogs get there . thats my theory anyway .

Im going to ruff dogs. If i have to unload a bulldog it had better be a big pig. But here they run quick,before the dogs even get their feet set to bark so im going with rougher dogs. I hope it works. But i prefer loose dogs with just enuff grit to keep em bayed also.  

i hunted the rough dogs for 7 years and did plenty good withuot a bulldog but i could have fed dogs for a long time with the money i spent in penn. and staples and vet bills main reason i backed em off a bit .

The vet is my thing about rough dogs,I do like the loose baying dogs myself but there is the thought of what if when in the field. I have 1000.00 in 1 dog an she is real rough. She got 2 bad cuts and several small cuts to the point of retirement at 3 yrs old. This is my main reason for wanting a looser pack. With maybe 2 RCDs on the ground to slow things down a bit. So I guess my true response is a mix with a balance to be ready for whatever happens.

If a hog wants to run, it's gonna run no matter what you throw at it... period. ;)

yeah Mike if you're talking about Carl Lewis on the river you are absolutely correct, we have thrown loose and rough and end up with the same results. The rough dogs had him for a minute but got shook off and cut up then he pulled his same routine.

X2

Too loose and they run all day. Too rough and you either have a roughed up dog with injuries, a busted bay  or both. How much is genetic.
 Vs. learned?

I would have to go with mostly genetic. But an old gritty/rough dog can learn to wear a hog down and be cautious doing it under normal circumstances and then increase the pressure when the hog has slowed down. That would be learned behavior...but then, if the dog learned that on its own then it probably is genetic to a certain extent. It is almost like what came first? The chicken or the egg...

I prefer loose baying dogs, with plenty of bottom.  I  caught plenty of hogs with my old rough pack too.  The biggest difference for me, is that I don't want a rough dog hunting long range, I want to be able to take my time getting to a bay, and not worry about stapling dogs after the hog is caught.

Im with you on this circle c. As long as my loose dogs can stop a runner and know when to help catch if needed Thats my preferance, no point in hurrying to a bay until the cd is cut in my opinon. I also hate dealing with a cut up dog all the time!
 

very true!!

I hunt, I guess you could say regularly, in all different types of terrain with all different types of dogs. I seen real rough to real loose and everything in between stop hogs. I'm a student and don't have much money, therefore I can't have a bunch of dogs. I am slowly building my pack around close baying, not rough except on the rear end of a runner (once stopped to at, back up and bay), with a lot of bottom that don't help catch big toothy boars. Then cd with enough bottom and hunt and lung to stop a runner if needed and a little size so they don't need cur dog help. For example, I can only remember my lacy dog having to take off one day in the past year and that was mostly cuz she had already put in 40 mi in the 48 hours before, but she did have a small cut on her cheek.

The reason I am building my pack this way is because I don't really feel like you can get the best out of a bay dog when they are geared up like a cd and if I get a dog cut down with only four dogs (one being a pup so really only 3), I'm out of hunting till they are healed up. If I had the space and money, I would have a few rougher dogs in the lineup as well though. I like hunting with rough dogs and seeing everything biting onto something when we get the the catch  ;D

We have both in our pack and I like'em both. Good dogs produce hogs no matter their style. IMO  As long as we keep on catching hogs, I will keep hunting the dogs that we have.   ;)

Amen to that!  Since we started using the garmin tracker on the dogs we've noticed how the running hogs stick to certain trails.  We hunt some thick, pine tree, green briar matted crap and it seems like if you can't get the hogs caught before they get on their trails, then you'll run one all night.  Before they get on a trail a poodle could bay them up.  After they get on the trail the dogs could bite off both back hams and the hog still would not stop.  Sometimes a hog will run to the end of a trail, if the dogs are still after it, it'll do a 180 on the dogs and start the trail all over again.  Our dogs have a hard time catching hogs in East Tx, but when we go to the open parts of Tx our dogs do really well because of the terrain difference.
*A solution to the problem may be to breed the run out of the hogs*

makes me wonder why my rough pack  of cats would make one sit down in the middle of a plowed feild and protect his arrs and if he thought of  standing back up theyed make him sit down again ????

Well this has been discussed more times than the sun has come up and went back down but I'll bite...

I've got loose baying dogs and they have stopped lots of hogs that rough dogs made run all day. In my opinion, I think most hogs aren't threatened by a dog until the dog gets too close or bites it. I've seen some bad hogs stand there and let loose dogs bay them all day and throw in a rough dog and he's headed to the next county.

I brought 3 other guys that all had their own pack of rough dogs to this spot and they ran this hog all day. I went back a couple weeks later and bayed him in about the same spot and kept him bayed for 2 hours with 2 loose dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT6ijydQkKU

A bay dog is suposed to bay. If you want a rough dog, get a catch dog. I don't want my good dogs getting cut up anyways.

it all being said some dogs just know how to work a hog and some know how to catch a hog and some know how to bark at a hog and when you wind up with a pack of dogs that do all the above you got it made   ;D

Big Hogs

If you want to run, bay, run again Big Hogs Loose if you want to stop and catch Big Hogs ruff.

There is not much inbetween !  Done been there done both !

I like rough bay dogs, and they can stop a bad hog unless the brush is thick and enough dogs can't get situated right to work it. The smart gritty or rough dogs know to stay clear of the tusks on the average, but when the dogs are fresh they throw caution to the wind and that is one way they get cut and the other way is when they get caught up where they can not move out the way...

Hogs know to run to and through the thickest brush because they know a dog can not keep up. The hog also knows he has the advantage in close quarters especially if the dog can't move around because of the thick brush. having said that I still like the gritty to rough dogs.

Hey NechesBobcat.... why don't you show me the ending to that video and I'll be impressed.

There's PLENTY of dogs out there that can bark at a hog... show me a BAY dog that can hold a hog tight long enough to get a CATCH DOG to it(and I'm not talkin' about a bloody RCD) and then you can talk chit.

I apologize if you just decided not to show the ending to that clip when you walked your CD right up to that "bayed up" hog and CLIPPED your catch dog on his ear...  maybe you can show us the rest of it then?  ;D

TOO MANY DILLHOLES think they got baydogs just because their dog can find and bark at a F'n hog... ask them to catch that hog with THEIR OWN CATCH DOG and see what you got then....

On a side note, your dogs looked good... just like to see you finish it if you gonna talk smack about rough dogs...

As far as I'm concerned it was finished. The dogs did exactly what I trained them to do. You have any video of your dogs baying a hog that other dogs couldn't stop? What do you call baying if this isn't baying? I'm not worried about a running catch dog or any catch dog. My dogs found this hog and kept it in one spot until I could get there. I let them bay it a while and called them off. I don't even own a catchdog. If I would have had one and he couldn't catch that hog then I would have culled him. How is it you think I'm talking sh1t? There are no bloody running catch dogs in this video that I'm aware of.

Don't have any use for a dog that won't attempt to stop a hog.
There's a big difference between a dog that will CHASE a hog until the hog DECIDES to stop, and a dog that will attempt to STOP the hog. Don't mine one backing up(10 to 12 inches ;D), and respecting a settled bay, but you can't stop one that breaks from fifteen feet away ;)  
 

Why yes, yes I do... and lot's of pictures too...  ;D

Sorry for callin' you out, if you were plannin' on shooting that hog... well, you accomplished what was required...

Noah, smoking that swamp cabbage tonight? Not only is what you said full of bull, but it doesn't even make sense?!?


This n't a catch dog thread, he asked wether you like loose or rough and why.

HAHA... but for those of us that actually CATCH hogs... WITH CATCH DOGS... the style of your bay dog matters much grasshopper  ;)

I think that good dogs know when to be rough and when to bay. When a big boar turns to fight and cur dogs get rough on him, they are gonna end up gettin killed or hurt. Good dogs will apply pressure when needed and back off when needed, my opinion that would be rough when I hog wants to break, and loose when a hog wants to fight.

Well lets see which side of the fence I'm on tonight?  I like to keep 2or 3 dogs that hate a hog but are to scared to get very close these dogs need good nose big mouth and lots of bottom. When they bay   Ease in some ear bitter with a lock jaw and long legs in case hog breaks from the noise of him coming and should be caught hog.   Sounds simple.   I wish it worked every time.

You and me both brother  ;D

Sure thing Hemingway rolleyes  :D

Maybe you should clarify what you mean by those of us actually catch hogs.

If a fella wanted to be a real douche, one could say your making up for a lack of true work ethic with the unending desire for more drive and grit. Never having met you or your dogs, I believe them to be effective, but if you think your way is the only way then I will proceed no further in this silliness.

Well said brother  ;D  There are many paths to the same end... 

Well my bowl popcorn ran out and my hunt got cancelled and still no fights broke out. So far what I gather is breed my rough dog to my loose dog and hope for pressure from the pups. That's what I thought, that was the actual goal of my breeding plans. .25 pit .25 cat .25 redbone and last but not least .25 YBM ending up with dogs that have grit brains a nose and bottom. I know it can come out of one breed but in this game attributes from several breeds make an excellent combination. What I want is a dog that will bay a stopped hog bite his hind when it tries to break but that is my want. I believe the strongest attribute a dog can have is brains, it is smart enough it will know when to do what.

Then again you may end up with a fatheaded spotted dog with droopy skin and a cow habit ;)

Hahaha why do you have to bring chances watchdog into this  rolleyes :D

I've come to realize theirs not near as many differences in dogs as there are dog owners. I'm all for people having what they want. I have alot of people that want to bring their rough dogs with me to my spots to prove me wrong. I think I do pretty good on my own. And Yes Noah, I do catch all the hogs I want. I've released more hogs with the only cuts being on their nut sack than most people will ever see. My family has been in this game over 100 years. My great great grandpa had free ranging hogs in the Neches River bottom all the way up into the mid 80's. They were caught with a few dogs and a rope. Didn't ever need a catch dog to chew the marks off a hogs ear and I still don't care to see a dog latched onto a hog when it can be baying a group of hogs I have also realized that most people with good bay dogs are in the woods with their dogs way more than the people who say they have rough dogs (which can usually be found at the local bay pen).

OK  ;)

OK  ;)

Well I like them both and think there is a time and a place for both in different situations .  You put a lot of pressure on that big boar hog there I promise you he would have been gone if your dog didnt have big nuff balls to stop him and thats usally what happens people got a dog that thinks he is bad till he runs in on one like that and gets his ass handed to him then all hell breaks loose you chase the hog for five miles get dogs cut up killed and everything else all because of a dog that is COUNTERFIT !

I thought the mans dogs done a good job myself and hell if I was catching hogs with catch dogs those dogs there done enuff they got him stopped and they were baying not to close but still doing what they needed to.  The hog didnt run off so the pressure musta been pretty much right on him thats all I would have needed and I would have  sent two three bulldogs and the pork would have been on the grill.

whoo this topic is gettin to be a "dogo-AB" topic :laugh:

I think most people that catch hogs with catchdogs would agree with me that you'd have about a 1 in 20 chance of actually catching that hog in the video with ONE walk in catch dog... that hog was doin' basically what ever he wanted...  now if you wanna go and dump a box full of running catch dogs out..... SURE you might catch him... HELL, I'd give yall a 1 in 10 chance in that case!!!  ;D

Now, I do understand those dogs might tighten up when they see a catchdog comin' in to them... BUT, if you gonna say how your dogs can "bay" a hog another man's cannot, you better show the end result if you want credibility in my eyes... not that anyone gives a CHIT what I think LOL.

i agree to each his own and there are so many different types of land that people hunt and so many ways to get the same thing accomplished. but at the end of the day its whatever floats your boat, you feed them and hunt them and what everyone else thinks? oh well. but as you can see there are some who belive strongly on certain ways and they back it up...

I'm not saying they can. I'm saying they did and I have the video of the hog they couldn't stop for more than a few seconds cause the dogs were too rough.

Maybe you need another catch dog if you got one that cant catch and hold that hog till you can get there.  I didnt say I didnt have a catch dog that could have caught that hog I said I would have turned two three loose on him because .   I have had catch dogs that would have slapped the number 2 out of that hog and we would have been on him but and I say but we now use two three catch dogs because it cuts way down on one catch dog getting hurt are killed.  Hell you need to come work the corn feilds with us when you dont know what they hell the dogs have got bayed cause you cant see your hand in front of your face and if you miss that hog with one catch dog he is gone to the next country not county.  No room to move no room to bay no room to get out of the way no room for noting.

Damn man I didnt know a hog doggers needed a hand book to take with him so he can pull it out to look up what he needs to do when he gets a hog bayed,  O my dogs are not bayed tight enuff so I need to do this are o my dogs are bayed to tight so now what do I do O this hog is in the brush so I should catch him this way thats all bullnumber 2 just catch the damn hog the way you want to and call it good.  If you catch hogs with your dogs then you dogs are just as good as the next mans ,  no need for all this bullnumber 2 !

Gentlemen I just wanted to know what type of pack y'all run and the reasons behind your choice. I have both types of dogs myself and I like the looser baying dogs but to be honest the rougher dogs are producing more hogs. Usually approaching a bay the hogs are breaking on the loose dogs and rough dogs have the sucker on lock down. Around here these hogs have gotten dog smart and it is obvious. If I could find a loose dog that could a bay i'ld rather that pack due to vet and stitching work. If you have this dog line let me know and old be happy to test them out. ;D

I hear ya ,  I got both kinds myself.  I like the ruffer type packs simply because it cuts down on the running hogs , it cuts down on the distances traveled for both man and dog.  Thats not to say the loose dogs don't get their share but it seems you travel a lot longer distances to get the bigger boars.  They both got their do's and don't . I prefer ruffer smarter type dogs but as I said got both kinds.  The land dictates really the kind of dog you need the smaller places need the ruffer type dogs to get them stopped before you get off the proptery, if you got 20,000 then sure why the hell not have loose dogs that can run and bay run and bay and never get off the land and most the time hardly ever get cut .

Not argueing with you but that's what I don't understand. It's always the opposite for me. My loose baying dogs usually have the hog bayed where they found it and everytime I've hunted with rough dogs one of them busted up a group of hogs and there were hogs and dogs scattered for miles.

Maybe you haven't hunted with GOOD rough dogs.

I just want to throw this out there. I hunt all over Texas, I like to travel, I think that different hogs react differently to different dogs. Some hog run from rough and bay for loose, some run from loose and bay for rough. Some just flat run no matter what until you got a cd or 2 hanging off of them.

If people are running so called rough dogs & their hogs are breaking.  They need some new ones   rolleyes

It's hard for em to run with a dog locked on each ear  ;)

I dont know maybe this is the problem,  I find this to be the case most them time .  A man will have three four loose baying bayem up kinda dogs and have one are two ruff dogs a buddy brings that are just ruff and not really schooled in shuting down are stopping holding bad  hogs such as in your video and they will run n get their butts handed to them and break the bay.  I have seen this alot.  Me and my buddy Cory decided not to go this morning for this very reason .  The place we were going holds big bad boar hogs the real deal cut-slash and kill kind.  Well I sold my old trackin system last week and he sold his and we only have four garmin collars not enuff for what we needed to do .  This place you have to have some very ruff shut them down holdem kinda dogs are you will be running till midnite.  I got dogs I have to take for these kinds of hunts on these kind of bad bad boars ,  Bo-Running Stop Dog , Duke Catch dog, Ole Blu find running stop dog and we take Corys catch dog Champ so four and we take Horn find dog help catch , Penny find dog help catch and Swig  find dog help catch all will jump in and help when we get on a bad bad hog all these dogs here working as one not many hogs get away from us anymore.  That may sound like a lot of dogs 7 but man when we get in on a 300 lber it is pretty to watch Duke on one ear, Champ on the other ear, Bo got him by the nose and making him scream and sit down Swig on the back end , Horn on the back end and Penny and Blu are gone looking for another one unless the hog is out of control then they will be in the mix too. It has taken a long long long time and was a never ending JOURNEY to get dogs that work together like this on big Big Bad Boar hogs but since we have gotten the right dogs we have not missed a big bad boar hog and no one has gotten cut are killed.  I  hardly hunt with many people no more and bring my dogs unless I can bring the whole crew and still I dont like to if I dont know their dogs simply because all mine all depend on each other to do their jobs and if you are missing one are two thats when you gonna get something killed are hurt badly .  They may have great dogs but its like tuning a engine you cross the plug wires and it runs like number 2 !

Yeah. I usually take two dogs with me when I go to the woods & catch what ever. It's not very often I get to hear a bay. Those dogs in that video are my buddies pups. The bobtailed  male is 8 months old & the female is 11 months finding & stopping her own hogs. If that was the older dogs we wouldn't have heard a bark  ;D  We run these dogs because you have to shut em down quick on these properties. Loose dogs ain't gonna cut it there. Many have tried & didn't succeed. Them hogs start running when they hear the front gate squeak open.  :D  Like you said earlier loose dogs are good for big pieces of property but in these tight spots  you have to shut em down.

Don't mean to toot my own horn but......... TOOT TOOT

x2 well said

I like a combination of the two.. With more leading to the rougher side. We like for the cur dogs to catch what they can handle. Even larger size boar hogs.. That being said no-one wants long ranged strike dogs catching boar hogs 2 miles away. The better ones know when to apply pressure and not, that's the brains behind a truly good hog dog.. it's fun sneaking in and watching a bay before the dogs know your there, then watching their whole demeanor change once they see you tightening up waiting on the catch down or looking for their ippurtunity to catch knowing that you showed up to finally help them.

We like the rougher dogs I guess for the simple reason you can catch more hogs ( numbers wise) when you hunt a rougher pack, saves time when your cur dogs can catch and roll off. The best days are big places when you can have a pack on the ground with a good mixture of loose, hard hunting dogs and a few rougher dogs that you know will put teeth on one

Hogs are gonna run and stop when they want, some will break more because of pressure applied by rough dogs.. Some will sit and bay with loose dogs.

I would have turned one 50# cd dog loose on that hog in a second and caught it. Caught too many like that to think otherwise