EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

How many of ya'll think it is a good idea to let a kid own their own APBT and have all of the training responsibilities that go along with it?

ive had dogs that see children as the less dominant one and they sense that and act dumb at times and then ive had dogs that try to please the younger ones and do great!

it depends on bloodines, how temperant, and alot on the trainer!

Whooo think you gonna open a big can o worms on this N.

I feel bar none there is no better catch dog when chit hits the fan. However I will never own a full blood here on the ranch around kids, horses, cats, chickens, calves or anything else I care alot about. Feel alot better with a cross that seems to be little smoother temperament.  Or in my case let your pals keep em at their place ;)

JMO ain't trying to get the diehards stirred.  8)

 it all depends on the dependability of the child and if the child knows how to handle the dog and knows how to reconise an aggretion growl or an startled growl and other tell tell signs if the dog is in a bad mood. me personaly, i let my 8yr old son feed and walk my big pit when i could get my son in the summer and the pit never showed any aggretions towards my son other than wanting to lick him to death. the pit never growled or anything, he just wanted to be petted and his back rubbed. my pit was a teddy bear with humans, but hated pigs. with the bad rep them dogs have because of irrisonsible pit owners, they have got a black eye and if a neighbor stuck their nose in your bizness, you might have to deal with the cops or social workers, but i highly dought it would ever come to that.

my pit is a lot like charles pit. she is scared of our little 6 pound dog but i have seen her throw and drag some big ole pigs around by herself i dont unt understand it lol but i love her

 ive had  bulldogs just about 40 yrs now and raised my kids up around em. aint NEVER had any problems with them and kids and my sons still raise their house dogs with my grandkids .a dog on a chain or pen with very little to do with humans besides goin huntin is another  thing .raise em right .KIDS AND BULLDOGS.  JMHO

My pit is well socialized but he is under my supervision when out of his kennel. I turn him loose with all my other dogs but I make sure they are always getting along.

I work 13 hr shifts so my wife lets him out alone (if I am not around) and he is under her supervision as well.

We might be overdoing it but I do know once a good pit gets fired up something is going to die...That is why we watch him close... as well as the ones we have owned in the past.

As soon as I get some 1/4 pit in a few mtn curs I will not need this APBT and he will be sold or given away.

To answer the question small kids are allowed around the dog as long as I am around. If a young teenager feeds and lets him out...is ok but the dog is let out alone and I don't have to supervise.

This is a pain in the rear and that is another reason why I will get rid of him when the time is right...

Yep, some of you will call it over kill but I have heard and seen pitbulls get loose and go catch a cow and actually kill an 800 pound steer (friend of mine paid for it ;D)  and also catch a horse by the nose...etc. etc.

Once a pit catches a cow it is hard to break them of it.

got off the subject...but that is how I see it with the pits... :)

 i agree with you on that point reuben.other animals ,GOATS come to my mind  rolleyes,usually just bout anything that 'll get em goin. never had a problem around any of my horses.some of the newer CDs that ive gotten in the last 5or 6 yrs had would have issues if given the chance

i dnt see a problem with kids an bulldogs as long as the bulldog has a good temperment. I have to full blood pits an i have a four year old an a seven year old an my pits are calmer an gentler with them than they are me. My male will pull an pull but if my boys are playing with him or walkin him on a lease there is slack in th leash th whole time. Of course they are always under my supervision though.

I dont trust any dog unsupervised with my daughter.

My pits listen to my kids better than they do me. My two were housedogs before they were catchdogs. But i have no problems with them around kids, livestock, nor anything but a hog. I do keep an eye on them though. I live around donkeys and cowd and a few horses. They seem to be scared of them and come back tailtucked. As for my kids, i doubt theyll ever be aggressive towards them. Usually they cant wait to see them

Ever.

I like my dogs as much as the next guy, but would you let your toddler wonder off into a cow pasture where a rogue bovine could reach her faster than you? Would you let her go play in a horse stall where even with a well mannered horse, 1 accident could end her life? Why, if you know what your pit or even cur can do to a hog with way thicker skin, would you wanna be all macho and let the dog be unsupervised around the most beloved person in your life. If your kids are older and know dogs, its different but as for my duaghter, it ain't happening till I know the question changes from trust a dog around the kid to trust the kid around the dog.

This is the deal right here because kids are gonna be kids.   They're rough and playful and to a dog can be aggravating at times, and some dogs don't know how to take it.  My whole deal is that it only takes one time and my kid could be crippled, maimed, or worse and that's with everything, dogs, cattle, and horses.

Ok, here is my dilemma. I have had APBTs for quite a few years and have had my 9yo daughter around 100 or more of them that I have owned, now I have a 7mo daughter that will also be raised around them. That is not my question, my question is should a kid Own a pitbull and be totally responsible for the training and socialization of the dog. I raise some very good game dogs and have never had a problem with man aggression or anything like that. I have a kid, 15yo, that is wanting one of my dogs and I am just not sure about it. I would feel responsible if, when the dog got older, the dog got out and got on another animal or another one of his dogs or something like that happened. Just wanting to see how ya'll felt about it and see if it could ease my mind about it or help me decide against it.

I am sure ya'll have seen my other posts on here and know I am very much an advocate of the APBT, just not sure about this situation.

I'd have to talk to the kid's parents as well. Some kids are responsible enough...the majority are not.

I think a 1/2 pit with ill predispostion to fighting is just as bad or worse as a ill bred pure pit bull terrier,  some have to much agression in them even with crossing into a different breed of dog, I had a 1/2 pit 1/2 running walker almost kill me trying to catch my mule back 20 years ago, after that happened i never owned or hunted with another pit bull or part pit bull and went to all black mouth curs, until you are getting dragged by a mule because a 1/2 pit went off for some unknown reason on the mule you are riding you wont see it this way usually, Ihave had rat terriers i have had to destroy that were too agressive so i know its from the cross of the terrier with the bulldog that makes them wacky, most bulldogs are very passive, its the game bred pit bull terriers that have the ill temper that is ready to explode if lightly scratched, i let a child raise a old tyme bulldog before a registered pit bull terrier, too many wont destroy the bad blooded game pits that attack men or dogs too easy,,,,most of the cliches about hog hunters wrecks are always about a pit bull ripping a toungue off a herd bull or tearing off a ear off some cow with a baby calf ya know where there is smoke there is fire, nobody ever complains about a hound killing a child or man thats for surelol  Be kool if they would oulaw catch dogs especially pit bulls and nothing but hounds could e hunted on hogslol

The problem as I see it isn't always the dog, or the childs fault.  Two kids start wrestling on the floor and dogs can't reason whether it is play or a real threat and acts to protect.  There's where the problem lies in my opinion.

VERY seldom do you ever hear of a dog bite case where the owner says..."Yep...that mean 'ole SOB...we just knew it was a matter of time before he got somebody".  No, what you hear is "We can't believe family pet Bruiser acted that way...we've NEVER seen him show ANY signs of aggressiveness."  Once those words are spoken, the damage is done and no amount of remorse can repair a childs mangled body.

Not to single out the APBT, but I would personally not leave my children unsupervised with any breed of dog that has a protective (notice I didn't say aggressive) nature.  Also not to start some debate on which is better, but this reason is why I PERSONALLY prefer the AB.  In my experience, the AB's seem to have a little more control of their own preydrive.  When I break my bulldogs off, they can shut down just as quick as they game up.  Perhaps I've been around the wrong ones, but the MAJORITY of APBT's I've been around took a little time to cool off after getting amped up.

Just my $.02

Ok, let me rephrase this. Would any of ya'll that have raised or raises good temperament gamebred APBTs allow one of their dogs to be placed in the hands of a 15yo kid to raise, discipline, socialize, train, etc. I didn't want this to become a debate about whether kids should be around "pitbulls", or about which is better abs or APBTs, I already have my own opinions about that. I guess since I raise APBTs and have culled the abs that I have had ya'll know where I stand on that subject.

I have owned APBT's for over 30 yrs. and I don't believe I would put one in a teenagers hands. No matter how responsible a teen is I don't know that they have the depth of experience to make the judgement's needed to keep the dog out of trouble. You can't paint all APBT's with the same brush, there are as many variables as with people. I know that I take the extra responsibilites that come with owning this breed but I'm not sure a teen can grasp all that. The learning curve can be very steep. As you can see by some of the posts, peoples impressions of this breed are seasoned by sometimes 1 or 2 bad experiences. I bred very few times over the years but temperment was always the top requirement. Many breeders have excused bad traits if other things impressed them and that is why you get some of those crackhead dogs. JMO

ultimately, it is always the dog owners fault in my opinion when a dog attacks an inocent human.

Example; I am walking down the street and someone has a pitbull chained up in the front yard and when I walk by he lunges at me and just wants to eat me up.

Well, I will try not to walk down that street any more but if I do I will carry me a weapon of some sort that can stop a dog.

The owners of that dog just love that guard dog or watch dog. But one day a kid is riding a bike down that street and the pit bull hits the end of that chain and it breaks. the dog runs down the kid and the pit won't let up because it is a pit bull.

We have quite a few irresponsible people out there that will eventually be the cause of why a good breed will be banned.


It will take a special teenager to be able to be responsible enough to care for one...If the kid has responsible parents that know dogs then it should work with the right APBT.

I think no child should be held responsible for a dog.

I say this because a month or two ago when it was 100+ degrees outside there was somebody who let their kid take all the responsibility and the dog had run out of water and was left outside in the heat and the dog died from heat exhaustion. This should have NEVER happened. Ultimately it was the adults responsibility to make sure that dog was taken care of and not the child.

http://www.dfwmustangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15497


This was the other forum where I read this. Sad story and ashamed the dog died the way it did.

tmatt, like you i was raised with APBT as a family companion my whole life! i bought and raised my first APBT when i was 16 and have been breeding raiseing pups of that first male for 10 years goen 11 now. sit down with the youngster talk long and hard find out his full intentions, make him sign a contract that if at any point he violates the aggreement he looses the dog.

i would`nt knock him for his youth, be his mentor and guide for a great breed of dog. If you feel like the kid is worthy of the dog stand in front of him and guide him right.

Big Chris, if he was closer that would be the plan but he lives outside of Austin. I love to get more responsible people involved with the dogs, it is just hard with someone that far away. I am having a hard time with this decision because I was young when I got my first APBT of my own. I am just afraid of the what ifs.

I think you answered your own question. In my opinion, when it comes to an animal, there should be no doubts. If you are having second thoughts, there must be a reason, even if you aren't sure what that reason is, it just don't feel right, then don't do it.

But that is just my opinion.

Ok tmatt this is from my experience, when I was 14 I went behinde my parents back and bought a old school game dog that was a yr old from a man, I keep him at a buddies house that had pitts and his parents wernt ever home, I was 14 and thought I was grown and turned a dang good pit into a dog fighting machine, I wish I hadn't now but I did, what I'm trying to say is if the kid wants the dog bad enough and his parents will let him have it then I Would give it to him but under the understanding that if the dogs not properly taken care of u will take him back, such as him fighting it r not feeding r watering him correctly r any other things u don't see fit for the dog, I wish I hadn't messed up such a good dog when I was young and dumb

Thanks Tiny, I think your right.
Clinton, I wouldn't worry about that old school gamedog too much. Remember you CAN'T make a dog do something he don't want to do. Old school game dogs were bred for one thing and that is dogfighting. Now days they are bred for other things such as catch dogs bit before the animal welfare act of 1976 they were bred for one thing.

My 2yr old has his own full blooded pit. Got her around my sons 1st Thanksgiving for him when she was 5wks old and they've been together ever since. I can tell my boy to go get his dog and he calls for her and she goes right to em and licks em in the face. She's hard on hogs but a best friend for my son.

i had a pit that was full blood and he stayed in the house with my wife and oldest son witch was six and my pit was still in the house when my youngest son was born .  I was a over the road trucker at the time that dog would sleep with my kids cat and would not let any one near my kids or wife Best dog i ever owned and was one of  catch dog  we lost him  three years ago to cancer  .

it depends on the 15 year old kid a bulldogs owner needs to b an alfa if he isnt things can go bad i have an ab and a 12 year old son i did all the training but i have no problem with my boy haveing the dog out around his friends dogs or other people he knows to b firm with her but i allways tell him if him and his sister r home and some one comes to the door to let her in cuz in the house she is adifferent dog but if u know the 15 year old kid and he knows wat he is geting in to and he is responable there shouldnt b a problem

With the one thing in all of our lives that we care about the most. (Our Children)  I have never had a question on whether it would be a good idea to place them in the vacinity of a questionable bred dog. If things go wrong its not the dogs fault and its not the childs fault it will be Your fault. I have read most of the above posts even from the main breeders that all seem to have a hint of reluctance in it. Therefore would make my decision accordingly!

Again this isn't to offend jmo. Hate to see kido's hurt and have it backlash on our sport.

We got enough ignorance representing us on national Tv these days ;D

tmatt, to answer your question, No...
But not because I would be worried about the dog hurting my kid or another person. Anybody that knows much about a true APBT knows that they are one of the most trustworthy dogs on the planet around people. Most of the ones that are bred right you can walk into a man's yard and steal every one of them and they would be wagging their tail the whole time wanting you to pet on them..
I would however be worried that the dog would be too much for a kid to handle if a situation came up where the dog got into it with another dog or other animal.. Then I would be worried about the other dog biting my kid when he or she was trying to break them up..
Also, I'm sure you've had a few yard incidents where you had to handle 2 dogs by yourself, I would not want my kid to have to do that..
I would be perfectly fine with letting them have a dog of their own but not have sole responsibility for the dog and let them take it with them everywhere...

I agree, I see that as a total lack of resposibility on the part of the dog owner.. But most of the time someone who does something like that Hasn't ever even seen a real apbt and the dog chained up in the front yard is about 100 lbs of mixed bred Sh!t... The dog should be CULLED , period..
It goes right along with someone who posts pics of their dogs cut all to hell all over the internet and brags about it.
We can fix the part where the dog needs to be culled, the problem is fixing the people that own them...

That is exactly my concern. I am not worried about it hurting someone.
Ybm, it is not a questionable bred dog, I have owned and raised 4 generations behind these dogs on the top and 6 generations behind this dog on the bottom side and have yet to have one with man aggression issues.

I think Bryant makes a good point from my experience.  I played college football back in th day and one of my buddies on the team had a great pit.  He was good around people and other dogs.  I loved that dog, I would go over to just to play with the dog.  You could wrestle hard and have hand in his mouth and everything.  The problem I see it is what happennedwith two incidents with the dog that I could easily see happening with a teenager owning one.  We were hanging out and one of our buddies tackles the owner and starts wrestling and the pit immidiately locked on the guys arm, the owner just said something and he instantly let go but guy had to go to hospital with some nice puntucures and bruised up arm for a few weeks.  He then let eveyone know not to horseplay around dog because of incident and would put up if he didn't know people well.  A few months down the road another friend was messing around and pushed owner jokingly and gave a little flinch like he was going to hit him and the dog locked on this guy's arm in same place on bicep, again owner said no and dog let go.  Another ER visit.  After that he just kept him up unless it was his closest frinds.  I could see something like this happenning but if the boy can be trusted and explained to him and his parents to keep dog up around people, maybe.  Just wanted to pass along a story that could happen when you have youngster that might start horseplaying.  That is still one of my all time favorite pits.  Just better not mess around with his owner

ANY bulldog around a kid unsupervised is a bad idea.

You'll have to decide for yourself. 
My 12 year old has total control of my dogs, without a leash.  My 18 year old, can control them on a leash, but they don't handle as well. 
Same dogs, kids from the same family, same exposure to dogs.  The youngest smallest kid has the most control? 
The youngest has always had control over my dogs.  At 3 years old, that child could put my curs, bulldog and healer in the pens or on a chain, when my wife and older son could not.

This is to address the comments Bulldogger made. I have learned thru the years that you teach an APBT that it is never OK to put your mouth on any human, period. If you want to play with these dogs get a toy they can grab. Don't let them think it is OK to grab a human, even in play. Now I'm not gonna get in a pissin match with those who do French Ring or Schutzhund as that is normally pros that know more than the average guy. I start very young not to mouth me. My first APBT I did all the wrong things and although he never bit anyone I believe he would have under the right cercumstances.  I don't want to be in that position again, not trusting a dog. That being said I completely agree that you should never leave little children unattended with  dogs.   

To answer the question, Absolutely Not!

I think your answer will hinge on many factors.. As for me, I've raised two pups out of my catch dog and they think they are no less than human and part of the family.. Each situation will have it's own dynamics and should be treated that way... The key to the equation is, is the child handling the dog capable of doing so

very simple and to the point

I am going to chime in hear because I can argue both sides with confidence.

But to answer your question.          NO.


I will give you one example and perfect reason why. for the past week one of my Niece whom is 19 spent a week with me, she is actually very good with all animals and wants to continue an education into an animal line of work. She wants me to teach her about training and enjoys spending time with my dogs, thats why she likes spending time here.

Anyway one incident when we we went to visit family she being a "kid" mentally thinking she got control of all animals takes off with one of my catch dogs iin the city, granted its in a backyard but only four foot fences and my dog jumps four feet fences day in day day out. My dog is not dog aggressive, but other dogs in connecting fences are and thats all it takes is ONE SMART KID, IN ONE SITUATION. Nothing happend I am always aware of where my dogs are and in a few seconds I knew the kid slipped out the back door with my dog and I went and corrected the situation but even when I corrected her and told her you do not have permission to take MY DOG ANYWHERE, I got the look thay I recognize that "WHATEVER" because they are so smart!!!!!!!! I was too at that age, I did not worry about consequences that I do now.

Lets Face it, Whats not a liability these days?

Even if the "kid" is the owner, handler and caretaker?

Thanks for all of the input, I have made my decision and I will he keeping the pup. I made this decision based on two things, one is he is too far away for me to be able to assist or mentor him with the pup and the other is his lack of experience with dogs in general. He seems like a good kid, just not enough experience for me to be comfortable putting that type of responsibility in his hands.