EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Moving from Tecksus to Florida and been wondering all of my life about why so little history of the florida hog and cow dogs is around, in the 60;s we used to send bull wagons of registered angus bulls to Lykes Bros steamship Co and sometimes we got pups pack from the bull hauler driver, the pups usually looked just like the cur and catahoulas we had down here but sometimes we would get the blockhead type curs from them, asked the guy driving what was the deal and he said those big headed pups came from cracker country and they actually catch cows and hogs with them so they can drag them out to a road where they had a tractor with big tires on it pulling a cow trailer thru the swamp,  he said they had bull dog in them to catch, are there any cracker cattle or dogs left in florida or have they all disapeared???  I am interested in any books or florida  cracker cow or cracker  hog dog websites and anybodys coments on why the dogs in florida seem to have slipped away?  Another question, how many hogs and hogdogers are in Texas vs Florida, is it about the same or way more in texas or whats the aprox amount in each state?? What is a florida cur and what is a cracker cur, are they the same or depends on where u live, is  a southern cur a bulldog strain or whats the deal with the southern meaning? Thanks in advance..

from my understanding a cracker cur was a splotted up lookin cur dog with just tan and white and no other colors like a catahoula. And the partin dogs were a black and tan mostly type small cur. And a people's cur dog was just a big cur dog kinda like the carnathen line. Not many people know the truth on florida dogs because most of the old timers have passed on. Now a just regular florida cur dog is red ,tan or bucskin, mostly with a black mouth. a lot of people call all kinda of dogs florida curs but trust me i still remember what the old timers used to tell me and im 33.

Just hang in there rat.....ther's a wealth of knowledge for you here. It won't be long until you have some answers. Wish I knew more about them myself, since apparently my best dog is a florida cur.

I don't know much about the florida cur nor the cracker cur but I do remember back in the early 1980's The Ross family in East Texas partnered up with a few dog men and created a registry for the black mouth cur...In some litters they had a few brindles and at that time they did not want to register them with the YBMC so they registered them as Southern Curs.

Alot of people have been breeding them for $$$ with little regard for the actual preservation....the name Partin sells like hot cakes. 

My grandaddy said that a true Fl Curr was a red bone hound (I believe) and bull dog, over the years the different families bred them for what suited their purposes / needs.  My mom was telling me the other day about an old timer that had some of the ugliest fiesty looking currs in Brighton, she said that they were some of the ugliest monkey tailed little dogs but everyone wanted one because they knew they would make dogs.

There are some dogs down in Devils Gardens and Moore Haven that they still use to find and catch what the cowboys call 'dick bulls' which have never been penned.  These dogs are salty as the day is long with a pile of heart and go.  Most are very catchy that I have seen but there are some that will back up and bay.

Alot of them are either black and tan, yellow (some have black mouths)or red with a ring neck.  When I refer to a black mouth dog alot of people think I am talking about the 'Foundation Dogs' but when I was growing up black mouth just meant their markings.  They also vary in uniformity, their suzes are not consistent and their heads can range from block heads to fiesty looking.

The Documentary 'Florida Crackers' would be a good one to watch for the xow fogs, you can also Google 'Judge Story Teller' in Florida, he has taken pictures of the cowboys roping bulls in Devils Gardens. 

When I make it home I will post the links for you to check out.

One of my favorite subjects...  ;D  "labels" are just tools by which to market an animal for sale... but this is some of what I know about the working dogs of Florida....

Been able to spend a lot of time over the years with some sho enough Florida Crackers... their family helped settle Florida back when there were still indians roaming around... can not begin to tell you some of the stories I have heard from these people...  To understand their dogs, it helps, first, to understand the people that used them...

Cattle/hogs were freeranged back in the day, no property lines, no fences... A man's "mark" (along with his reputation to defend it)was all that showed ownership of livestock... Rustling/stealing livestock was not uncommon and that created an atmosphere of distrust between many ranch families that still is evident today believe it or not...  I know of neighboring ranches that will have nothing to do with each other because they believe their great, great, great grand-dads "stole" a few cattle from each other lol... crazy...  ;D

Many of the old families that are still around, are still quite reclusive... Hard to befriend(trust me)... but if you can gain their trust, they have an absolute wealth of knowledge about "The Way It Was"(book I highly recommend on the subject)...  Many of these same old ranching families have sold off their land, downsized over the years, yet still remain just as secretive/protective of the dogs that have helped their families survive for hundreds of years...

Florida curs are a mix of alot of dogs, the old blood dogs I have seen all seem to have a distinct "look" to them based on the ranch they came from... the original dogs apparently had a much colder nose than what is necessary today, as working cattle before the time of fences often involved tracking cattle for miles before one could even begin the task of penning them up...  The same dogs that were used for this also worked hogs, and were even used to hunt deer with the men shooting from horseback... stories of these same dogs tracking down day old tracks of indians exist... There is no doubt that the old Fl cow men liked their dogs rough... but most seemed to have a mixed pack of looser bay dogs with a few meat heads to catch hogs/ornery cattle with...  The broad, "box" head of a Florida cur is an unmistakable trait with the breed...

One conversation in particular that stuck with me... I was talkin' dogs with two old timers and was asking them where their family got their dogs from... they laughed and both agreed that whenever they could not find a good cur dog, they would just make one by crossing a hound with a bulldog...

In my travels, I have met some truly "historic" Fl Crackers that still have the dogs of their ancestors... I've accidentally stumbled into many of them... haha, and it's amazing how protective of the dogs they can be...  often times, they don't even want you lookin' in their pens unless they really know you :o  I have seen pens full of GORGEOUS dogs, that look unlike anything I could compare... distinct lines of animals breed by each individual family for generations...

Do to time constraints(work seems to always get in the way  ;D ), I have been unable to thoroughly scour the state to document all these amazing animals... In my opinion, Florida holds a treasure trove of working dog genetics that for the most part, is undiscovered...

I could go on and on, I wish I had pictures to show you of just some of the examples I have seen...  What I currently hunt is straight FL cur from south FL cattle country... good examples of what a Florida Cur generally looks like(maybe a "tad" more refined... but still similar  ;D )

Couple pics of my FL curs...

Sawfish and Whaler(7/8 FL cur x 1/8 English Pointer)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm192/aprilcmetzger/005-5.jpg)

Chub dog(3/4 FL cur x 1/4 EP)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm192/aprilcmetzger/050-1.jpg)

The curs are the same as anywhere else.

In La. someone dubbed the leopard ones  catahoula.

In tx the yellow ones are blackmouth or yellow.

But I think the all developed the same. A need for a stock dog.

Tratterrier I hear you moved to Groveland. My buddy I hunt with over there has been working cows and hunting that area for 50 years. Shoot me a pm

See ratterrier,......I told you that there was a wealth of info on here. ;)

  That hound with bulldog remark sure struck me, Jude Hart was orginally from Florida, he came over by wagon with his family and his dogs, the dogs that i got from Lavon Davis that I bred and fooled with for about 10 years used to throw a lot of white hound like markings on the chest and feet and were almost white white yellow, I was inbreeding them heavily as i had no other dogs and they got lite as heck and had the hound type resemlance ear markings and that dewlap, i have seen those traits still showing up on pictures of blackmouth curs on here, some owned and still own dogs that trace back to Jude hart and Lavons dogs, so it makes sense that if Jude came from florida his dogs might have been created like that and had hound influnece in them, all i know is those dogs hunted as a rule way way wider and trailed more than the usual cowdog types i was fooling with from down here, I been searching southern airboat about the Partin dogs and ranch as well and it is very interesting as well about there strain of dogs as well, thats why I love the internet nowdays, you can figure out who was where and what dogs they had and almost always if they had there own strain going or bought dogs or what the deal was, plus now you can go back and spot the promoters created bloodlines and stay away from them, why would anybody want to crossbreed to different strains of black mouthcurs i have never figured out, if they were working in florida for the crackers they wood for sure work in texas, south texas has no history of cowdog strains, almost all of the cowdogs came out of east texas and la and florida if u look closely and seperate out the hypes.  Thanks to all of u guys for posting up, pretty crazy to think dogs from Florida had such an influnce in texas, they had to walk behing a wagon to get here and hunt and work cattle along the way!! 

I found this website with Florida curs from the Partins  pretty cool strain of dogs, i loved the baying up of those cows, has anybody on here close to them to know the dogs or own any of them,  there is a picture of the old man himself a AQHA hall of famer on this website link as well as 2 pages of there cur dogs, Noah, are u hunting these dogs or some like them??

http://tsnakecattleco.com/dogs


I agree that Florida still has some unknown strains of cur dogs still going, I bet they could tell exactly how they bred the dogs and no telling what is in there scrap books and memories.

they have a facebook site as wll found this picture of there cur dogs on a truck bed, look at the ear and white on the feet of the dog laying down  http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/301995_259026230807471_159029587473803_722369_2136817743_n.jpg

I've hunted with a few good Partin dogs, they have a very distinct look to them usually... round muscled head, big doe eyes.  Not seen one I'd want to bring into my breeding program yet, but wouldn't doubt if way back my dogs have some old Partin blood in them...  do see that "look" show up on the head of some individuals occasionally...

Mark Chesser's got a good Partin dog he hunts.

There's a big ranch down in Myakka that has some dogs I'd kill to get some blood off of, basically RCD's, but that's how a lot of the cowboys hunt down there... One dog in particular looks like a cross between a BMC and a Dogo... a creme colored dog with a box head to die for lol.. probably a good 100# dog used on cattle and hogs... what makes me bring it up is, again, the complete originality of "type" in this specimen... just don't see dogs around that you could compare him to... a distinct line of cur for sure...


Def looks like some hound in the woodpile  ;D

  Gees, anyway u could post a picture of the creme colored dog, how tall is that rascal??  Sure sounds like u discovered a sleeper strain, its driven me crazy trying to figure out how these curs got bred in the first place, one thing i found in fooling with the rat terriers is that almost every rat terrier can be traced to who was breeding that particlular type of terrier,  u see it over and over especuially if you heavy inbreed like i do, thats why one should stay away from dogs whose history is unknow or a secretlol  Might not mean anything if the particular dog is firecracker but start breeding one like that not knowing and you might get a missfire for sure.  What do you know about the dogs you have now, are they all florida curs or what do yall call them and how are they bred??  Are they more a ruff type dog or a bay type dog or both??

Cream colored dog was built just how mine are built, just bigger obviously... Extremely balanced/proportionate cur dog... The owner had pretty much stopped hunting with him because he was too valuable as a cow dog.  Wish I had taken pics, but people like that tend to get twitchy if you show too much interest, if you know what I mean...
 
As for the dogs I have, defenitely on the rough side... Know probably ten or so generations back, but crossed on an unknown "freak" dog lol.... Time will tell if that was wise or not

What part of Fla are you in? I have had Fla curs for almost 30 years. I managed ranches for several years and have used these dogs on both cattle and hogs. It is my opinion that the Fla curs seem to be rougher, as a breed, than most of the other curs. Some have bulldog in them I am sure, but a lot of the cattlemen don't want bulldog in them. I for one have spent years trying to get some of the bite bred OUT of mine. My old dogs used to be "bark once or twice and catch".....about ANY hog. After sewing and stapling dogs, vet bills, dogs out of commission for weeks, etc, and doing this for 20 years,  I decided there must be a better way. Sure, you will catch a lot of hogs with the rough dogs, but it only takes one bad hog to put you out of commission too........

Here is a pic of my Monkey dog. He is 6 1/2 years old.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/nov18b.jpg)

This is my Spur dog. He is sired by Monkey and out of one of my females, and is 5 years old. Note the white ringneck, white chest and feet. I get a lot of ringnecks in my dogs.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/spurmarch2011.jpg)

I also get a lot of red dogs. This is Scarlet.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/scarletmarch2011.jpg)

I have owned and/or hunted with Florida curs, most of my life.  The only traits that every dog had in common, were hunting, catching and short hair.  They were purpose bred and culled.  Ours were cow dog culls from Okeechobee.  Either they trailed too long, or were too rough on yearlings.  That's the only two reasons we got them.  And they were free, because they were culls.

About 6 years ago, I realized that the name "Florida Cur" had been stolen to drive prices up.  That's how I slowly moved over to Jagds.  I couldn't find or afford any curs with the ability or toughness that compared to those ranch dogs.

I believe the best working cur blood is in South Florida, dog jockeys and money have robbed the name and history of the Florida cur.

This is the main reason I stay away from the cow bred dogs...but some baying styles will keep the hogs bayed. If the dogs are bred to go deep in the woods to find, stop and bay, or, catch wild cattle then we are talking about a good dog or line of dogs that in my mind will make a top notch hog dog.

But then we have the dogs that are controlled to work closely with the cowboy to bunch up and drive catlle. The range is bred out of that dog or line of dogs because it is not a desirable trait in this style of cow dogs... and the nose and hunt is not tested because it is not required...So how many generations of this does it take to breed out or lose the hunting traits??? I know that good hunting dogs will pop up here and there from this type of breeding selection but the percentages will be lowered and probably progress to lower as more generations are bred.

not trying to stir the pot but this has been a personal theory of mine for many years...theory should have been my middle name ???

so what are your thoughts on said subject...we are talking about history of the cur but times have been changing and the deep hunting, long range cow dogs are no longer needed for the average cowboy/rancher but I do know we still have a few around and that is where the cow dogs live that make the best hog dogs...Strictly my opinion but I suspect many others feel and think the same.

I'll add my 2 cents and it may not be worth that.  I am from Texas but lived in Floriday in the early 2000's.  I was lucky enough to get invited with a couple buddies to go on a hunt with some great people that own one of the largest cattle operations in Florida for over 100 years.  He was a great guy and family were as nice as can be.  They took us hog hunting with two of their currs.  Only had the female on ground with her son in truck for backup.  He was never needed.  We all killed pigs that day and was very impressed with the abilty of the cur.  I asked about the cur and he said it had been in his family for generations and bred for cattle and hogs.  He has other ranching friends that he still breeds dogs with.  I asked about where they originated and he said about 100 years ago they would add in what was needed to continually make good dogs.  He said the three main dogs used 100 years ago were: Redbone, German Shorthair and Rhodesian ridgeback.  He said each brought something to table and they breed a little more or less in until they got what they wanted and bred pretty true.  H said he was told this by his grandfather.  I was surprised that there was Rhidgeback in Florida 100 years ago and he was positive there was because of what old timers told him. Take it for what it is worth but this guy had no reason to lie and had pictures that were very old and still had tons of land and is very well respected.  His biggest issues was poachers on his land.  When we hunted with him he had a shattered leg from flipping his airboat chasing poachers at night on one of his properties that always gets poached.  The cur dog would stop any smaller hog and a cowboy was following that dog on a horse and we followed in a jeep.  We would get close and line up shot with finger off of trigger.  He would say bay, bay and dog would back up and he would say take your shot and it would be doen deal.

Bulldogger, both you and Rueben have true statements. I have been around the Fla cur dogs myself for 50 years. A lot of them used to come what the old timers called "pieded" which was black and white or red and white. When the YBM cur became popular ( and started bringing top dollar) many people went to breeding for the yellow color. Some of the Fla dogs were that color to start with, but they came about every other color also. I had a litter that had 5 black & white pups in it and an old timer came and bought one and said lots of the old dogs looked like that. He was 82 years old and been in Fla his whole life. And that was about 15-17 years ago.

My original female that started me in the Fla curs, 6 generations of dogs ago, was a yellow bob tailed ringneck dog. They told me at that time she has both bird dog and ridgeback in her, but just a little of each. My only litter out of her ( she was about 10 when I got her) she produced 5 pups out of a litter of 10 that had ridgebacks, even though her nor the male had them. That was the only litter I have ever had with ridges, and even though I kept two females out of that litter, they never produced a ridgeback.

But ranchers don't use the curs like they used to. Just think it was in the 1950's before there were any fence laws in Fla. Until that point they had to have a dog that would hit the woods, find and bay cattle in palmettos, cypress, etc. Now most cattle are in open improved pastures and the dogs don't have to find them. There are exceptions, but most of the big places have been split up and divided and improved for beef production.

Anyway, starting to ramble so I will close. Don't know if you will be able to see it in the pic, but this is my old PJ dog, a littermate to Dixie's grandmother. She was a yellow ringenck 3/4 tail dog with a ridge. Thats Dixie in the pic with her.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/image6.jpg)

  When i get settled in Groveland i will find the pictures i have of the yellow black mouth curs i was inbreeding back there, that white ring neck, loose skin under chin is a dead ringer to them except there heads were not quite as blocky but close, they were from Jude Hart and Lavon davis's dogs, which Hart brought from Florida to the east texas big thicket, they hunted more like hounds than curs i had seen up to then, would roll out until they found a hog, silent on track and could trail up a hog, this was 30 years ago too by the way before the internet, how is Monkey bred as far back as you can tell, there is way way to much resemblance to Jude harts dogs for there not to be a connection, when u see the picture of Whitey and Buttler i am sure you will see it too, soon as i opened this post i saw it, small world for sure, most of the ybmc cur dogs in texas are coastal burmuda dogs and stay close, very very few have dogs that will take off and windsheild wipe a 2000 acre solid brush  pasture and hunt up a cow, they kinda have all disapeared to the close ranged bark and catch types due to all of the hog hunters buying anything with big head and black mouth.  There got to be a few left but so many now cross any ybmc to any other ybmc strain and just sell pups, there are 10 times more hogs in texas now than florida i am sure of it, anything can catch a hog now days, its not like it was 30 or 40 years ago when u had to have a wide ranging strike dog who could road all night in front of the truck trying to find a hog, times and dogs have changed for the worse for sure, thanks for that pic of your dogs, was a blast back to the past for sure.  I ran a pack of ybmcs that bayed only and would not put a mouth on a hog, but if left for 45 to 1 hour on a pack of hogs and slow driven could drive them to the old pens, nowdays the curs seem like all catch dogs who hunt in front of the horse, am sure there some wide ranging ones with sense but they have to be a rare breed for sure.

I know a bunch of guys I sure would like to get on here and comment... getting them anywhere near a keyboard is the problem  ;D

... Maybe Gil Tompkins will chime in, I'd like to hear what he has to say about it...

Very interesting, I see a couple ridgebacks every one in a while that look a lot like big view, never new they were mixed in, but it makes sense now.

Always like reading about this.

Noah this subject could take up a few chapters in your book, maybe you should get going on the research

Look a lot like big CURS

my grandfather on my moms side was born and raised in okechobee. i could always ask him if he knows much, his family had lots of cows and he would always tell the kids stories of him bein out in the woods for weeks lookin for cows with his dogs, he also had his hands on some of the plotts back in the 60's

hes 83 now so i figure he has to know sometin since hes a dog man at heart

That's about the only people left that might have good info on the history... those old timers are gettin' harder and harder to find... somebody needs to document what's left before its too late...

... I wonder if I could talk the University into financing something like this...

Depending on who you talk to and what part of the state your standing in, depends on the answer you get.  ive had a few Fl Curs, now im down to one yella bobtail dog out of the flint stock near Lake City.  Ill try to post some pics up..

larry and bobbys dogs have mountain cur and catahoula in em.

(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/RJustham/tipper.jpg)

Tipper he GYP that got me started.  She was a hand me down dog when shegot too old for the boy that had her.. But she wa a bark twice and caught kinda dog.  Cept when she got up there if she barked three times it was big and if help wasnt tere on number 4 she would quit it.

(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/RJustham/DSC00286.jpg)

He was suppse to be off Lightsey ranch stock.  Got him half started but all he was gonna be was a catch dog.  Only problem was he caught two of my dogs and me in the process so........

(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc26/RJustham/DSC00188.jpg)

Jack... got him 3rd hand from a boy nea lakeland when he got divorced.  Came from the Flint stock in Lake City area.  Would love to get another, old man that breeds them has a cousin that lives ten minutes from me, dont know him real well though.. He knows i have him, and i hint too him everytime we run in to each other how id like to get a gyp... but the old cow men around here dont like hints unless they know you real well..

Oh i shouda mentioned... The picture of Jack was the night i brought him home.. Hes a nervous kinda dog unless hes with people he knows, thus the cowering...  Oh and hes put on some weight...Dang pig!  Not real sure what the boy who had him before me did when he caught a hog, but when he catches one for me as soon as i flip it and pin it he lets go and hides... Not real sure what thats about, but i cant break him of it..

`

 More than likely someone used to beat that dog off of caught hogs. I have seen that in hog dogs before

"the old cow men around here don't like hints unless they know you real well"... you said a mouth full right there brother  ;D  .... men are protective over genetics for a reason...  for a cowboy, his dogs help maintain his reputation.... which gets him more day work... very similar to some hog hunters I know quite well  ;D

I've never seen any dogs that were built like that over that way... I frequent the Lake City area and have been through some of the ranches over that way, not seen anything built like that Jack dog over there... he's built good... nice looking dog, but he got a S FL look to him

Noah my buddy's dad over in labelle has a good line of dogs that all look just like my jack dog.  I LOVE the look and build but they are damn hard to come by.  Ive had two but everyone of them ive been around were the right kinda dog.  Smart hunt and die for you kinda dogs

Funny thing is... Started coming around these boards and hearing the term to cut, I was thinkin dang I got
To get me some of them.. Turns out that's what I had been around my whole life. We just called them fur dogs. Everyone I grower up around just wantedgood dogs. They didn't care what state they were from! As long as they worked right and were built rght they didn't care

Rd my buddy got a dog that looks just like jack and out of Larry flints dog if your curious about where more of the blood is at. Looks just like your dog too.

heres mine, ill try and find a better pic.

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/koyote76/DSCN0139-1.jpg)

he is the one caught.

Bucsniper  Jack is out of the flint line, good way to tell is the F on the right hip  ;).  Got him from a boy that got him from the flints in lake city area.  Ronnie flint is about 70 years old still works cows and lives here in lehigh.  He told me its his cousin that breeds them but he hasnt offered a name, number, dog or anything with all the hints i been dropping.

He is looking good Kerry. He looks a lot like Monkey in that pic too. My two females don't seem to be as catchy...yet....but we will see as I hunt them more.

How big did he get? I know you said he was about 70 lbs before.

i got him down to 65 in hunting shape. real leggy.

he is  doing really well, just have to keep an eye on his attitude towards strangers lol. hes in that stage where im about to find out what type of dog hes going to be. you cant tell from the pic, but after he locks on his holding style is very very clean. the only concern i have with him, is that he gets wore out running with my cats. they hunt out wide open and he has a hard time keeping that pace especially in the heat. so i have been hunting him by himself and matching him with a more laid back style dog.

My kind of thread. Good lookin dogs everyone. I believe the Florida curdogs to be more of a "type" of dog rather than a "breed". Ain't no such thing as a purebred Florida cur. They are "made" in all shapes and colors. They are and have been bred for decades to work rough stock. I will say that I am partial to the long legged, block headed types. Won't feed one that won't work "one out" ;)

A few of mine!! Very good dogs to have if your looking for a rough, med range, smart athletic dog!! Koyote thats not normal for Florida Curs!! They were developed to handle the hot Florida temps and work all day. I have no problem running my dogs in the summer 20 miles if we have to. Does he have a heavy coat like Monkey?? Post a better pic of him if you can..

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/PB120002.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/DSCF0905800x600.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/006-2.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/scan0002640x480.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/scan0003640x480.jpg)
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/P8140002800x600.jpg)

taz good to hear from you, i will get a recent pic asap. the fl cur has found a load of hogs by himself, and is basically a one out dog.  i will find out what type of dog he is pretty soon, hes a bigger dog which usually means he needs more time to mature. i have not culled him yet and prolly wont. he can and will hit 20 miles. he does 1000 yard loops. but he cant hit 20 miles or so on the pace my cats do. they hunt wide open where he is in more of trot. hes better off hunting by himself. so far  like him. and even if he didnt hunt  i would still keep him around for security. i enjoy turning him out at nite at my house knowing i can sleep safe with him on guard.

He sounds like a good one!! What cats are you running?? Whats up with your lead BMC?? Retire him?? I got a couple Leopards. Bosco and Rita. Like them so far!! Here's Bosco, I'll post a pic of Rita later.
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/PC240001.jpg)

Bosco is a nice looking dog...Is he Leopard cur or does he have a touch of hound?

Bosco is out of a Blue Sky Kennel leopard male from New Mexico, and a friends female leopard out of Fl cattle/hog dogs. No hound. He resembles his dad in size and conformation.

My bad i meant plant city... Too many trips to georgia has me thinkin lake city..  Gotta love them Krystal burgers..  ;D

taz, the bmc is still huntin lol. the only dog ill ever retire is my old male cat, my cats are just some hombrew stuff.

what made you swith to leps from fl curs?



sorry boys for gettin off the fl cur topic, ill post a pic of fl cur soon.

Koyote. I didn't switch, I still have 2 Fl Curs. I just found 2 nice Leopards that hunt and act like I want my dogs too. I'm not breed blind, its just the Fl Cur is a dog that has works for me more then other breeds.

Great thread, I just joined and have been reading yall's post..  I grew up on the edge of lake okeechobee half way between Okeechobee and Indiantown.. have had old florida cracker curs my whole life, all out of old line cow dog stock.. I really enjoy hearing everyones stories.

Mine are mostly red or reddish tan with some white on a few, My uncle used to work on the Partin ranch back in the 60's some of my dogs bloodline come from their old stock, and some from lightsey cattle company near lake Kissimee... and the other line came from dogs my dad used to use that came from the Veal family, they used to run cattle in the JW Corbett area from the 50s till around 1970... these are old bloodlines that go back a hundred years that i know of...  they are rough long winded and have lots of sense...   my uncles and grandparents would work cows all week with them then hog hunt all weekend...

Good to have you on here Ralph, I'm from Indiantown, live in Moorehaven at the moment

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Dang man dont even look like you need a bulldog with those crackers,  Thats the kind of dogs I use to run before I screwed up and went cutting some grit out .  I will tell ya one thing there was not much running hogs then and thats were Am going right back to .

Ralph77. I just did a breeding with my Zipper dog that is from Hobby Campbell's stock and a dog out of my Bo dog. Hobby runs cattle over in your old neck of the woods, Okeechobee and Lorida. He is running Zippers 2 litter mate brothers on cattle for work and hogs for fun!! I have to replenish my pack. Hopefully Fancy will have a basket full of puppies!!
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/GuyD/20121103_085902.jpg)

Hey Boar Buster I lived off of 441 near J&S fish camp...   a good friend was the foreman on Latt Maxcy ranch there and my Grand parents were close friends with Duke Tucker who owned all the land from 441 to 710  and around the power plant.. I hunted all that land and work cows there.. we used to catch cows out of Barley Barber swamp...

Taz  those are good looking dogs

Good to meet you Mr. Ralph, would love to see some pics of your dogs

I've caught hogs on just about all those places that you've named! Let's see some pictures of the dogs

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Nice to meet you guys too...

I keep trying to upload some pics of my dogs and it says its to big...  let me get my son or daughter over here to the house and see if they can figure it out, i'm not the most computer savvy person around...

Hey rdjustham don't you have cur pups for sale off the dog in your cursor on Southern Airboat? I haven't owned a full FL cur yet but a buddy of mine has one out of some cow dogs in Zolfo springs that is a fast feisty pointy faced bob tailed ring neck dog that will shut a runner down. Plan on getting a pup off him in the future.

Yeah kinda..lol Got a gyp for my GF from a friend of a friend who had some pups over near moore haven.  My male locked up with her female and she had 6.  Im keepin 4 for now and picking through them.  I cant keep all 6 so the ones on SA are the ones i didnt like as much as the 4 im keeping, based solely on looks/size and really nothin else.

I showed three of the four im keeping a piglet at 8-10 weeks old in a big overgrown chainlink chinken pen my aunt built in Muse and they all trailed it up, one barked at it and the other two caught the little thing.  I dont mean play bite I MEAN CAUGHT!  I picked the pups up and the pig came with!  Not really what i was hopin for but hey, their momma is RUOGH and daddy used to be.  lol

Oh the short answer would be, Im keepin two when all is said and done, the rest are the GF's to do with as she sees fit, so i posted them there for her.  Thus the Kinda statement.  The two that im not keepin there really isnt anything wrong with except i like the other four better.

i'm about to give up trying to load pics... everytime I try it says folder full or that its too large... any advice ?

Ralph, look at the top of the Dogs on Hogs board... there's a thread on how to post pics.

Ok thanks

email them to me i can post them.  ;D popo

Hi SC   send me your e mail i will surely do that... thanks alot

My pops hunts out there by Indiantown. He use to be the FedEx driver in okeechobee and indiantown. Our friends have a big ranch right before indiantown.

What ranch is it?

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The Armstrong ranch. Right next to where they train the race horses. My pops hunts a few ranches out that way.

This is cool stuff!!!!  I lived in Indiantown when I was little.  My Grandma was a lunch lady at the elementary school.  My Mom's oldest brother was Homer Wall....He started a lumber business by cutting cypress fence post out of the Corbet area.  My Grandady on the other side worked groves..he is an Odom as am I.   I moved to Alabma 25 yrs ago and have been hog hunting with plotts for about 15 or so years.  When I was growing up, almost everybosy had a cur dog in there yard.  Some were red, ring neck, black n tan, but they all were hands.  I been looking for one for some time just to ride in my truck.  Them things all would handle like my youngins are suppose to.  I can remember cow hunting and I was to little to do anything but get in the way.  But when they got them cows penned the dogs would go lay under the trailer.  If they had trouble putting one in the trailer or something they would call 1 dog by name and use it to help.  The other dogs may not even pick their heads up.  Thats good stuff

Hey Heat... I luv that to hear them stories... years ago all the fences were built with cypress or Liter post.. My granddad put in about 200 Liter poles back in the 50s for the old boat sheds at J&S fish camp.. he cut them in the corbet area.. they were 12 to 18 inches around.. 30 years later you still couldn't drive a nail in them they was so hard..  From the 30's to the early 50's My uncles used to cow hunt and move the cows from the west side of west palm beach to Okeechobee, said they did it once every year took 3 to 4 weeks, they had cow camps along the way and had supplies dropped to them by a guy in an old world 1 plane.. in the 30's they're were still a large group of seminoles  that had a village near Indiantown they said they would trade with them  along the way and sometimes hire a few of um, to help hunt the cows..  I remember as a kid saying to my Grandparents, there was really Indians there.. My grandma said to me , Good lord child where do you think the name Indiantown came from !!   

Im pretty new to the site but have enjoyed reading and have learned alot. I live in North Florida, in the big bend area. Majority of the people in our small communties hunt with dogs whether it be for hogs or deer, and also use dogs for working cows. There are still free ranging cattle on alot of the land around here. Heres some pics of some pups from a line my family has had for along time. Ive always been told these are florida curs, but they look alot different than the ones ive been seeing posted on here from south florida. So I guess we can all them North Florida Curs. Also a couple good books for the history of cracker country, A Land Remembered, Spring Creek Chronicles I and II, and Palmetto Country. Hope yall enjoy!
(http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q753/Shortys259/IMG952012111495101909_zpsd9e029af.jpg)
(http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q753/Shortys259/IMG952012111495102052_zps60e4b894.jpg)(http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q753/Shortys259/2012-11-149510-14-5895287_zps9f9eae7d.jpg)

Great story Ralph77.
Cooter they look good. There are all kinds of looks to Florida Curs. Just like Plotts. It depended on the ranch/people that were breeding them. Your dogs look like they have alittle more ear to them then the ones I have. One thing about the breed regardless of how they look, they all seem to hunt the same way.
The guy who was breeding the line I have Jimmy, who went by Ghost Rider, was running Peeples Florida Curs and became friends with the guy Morgan who was breeding the Morgan line for McCoughlin Ranch. If you ever watched the Lady Hogdoggers show, the dog Poacher that Gary Stamper had was his Jimmy's last Poacher!! When one Poacher got killed the next litter with a big red cur became the next Poacher!! Some of Jimmy's Poacher dogs were close to 100lbs!! They started breeding their dogs together and were producing some very big rough curs back when nobody wanted rough curs. The stories of them getting invited to stay on some of the ranches for a month at a time and catching 300-500 hogs a month were just crazy. The pictures were awesome as well.

Well just got some bad news from the wife. One of the gyps in my picture died. Not sure what happened seemed to be fine last night while feeding them, no signs of parvo, snake bites, or roughness from the others. She was doing the best out of all my puppies, already finding her own hogs and baying tight. R.I.P Bell!

Hey Cooter... sorry to hear that... I have had things like that happen over the years.. never did figure out what happened to some of them.

Went hunting today, took one of my 13 month old cracker curs and my two old dogs, it's the daddy and mama to the 13 month old, the male is 12 the female 8, the male winded off the tool box and bayed a hog for an hour I never could get to him.. the gyp trailed up a pretty good boar hog , her and the younger dog caught him, i did get that one.    I still can't get my pics up loaded.. is there anyone I can e mail them too and up load them for me ?

not to get off subject but do any of you guys from the 'chobee area know any tomlinsons, i have a friend that moved here to southeast ms thats from that area i think he worked for likes or lights cattle company not sure of the name

Hey Goose..

There is A Lykes Brothers cattle and land.. mostly on the west side of the lake.. it's a big operation.
and there is a Lightsey cattle company. but there closer to Kissimmee

Is his name Justin? I work for lykes brothers.

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I know a cpuple tomlinsons.  The ones i know had a ranch near arcadia

rdjustham yep thats him he took the  ranch manager job for the owner of the piledriving company i used to work for and his middle daughter and my girlfriend rodeo some together he lives about 20-30 min from me now....hog hunnting community is a small world...you know anything about them two yella dogs he has

he offered to let me breed a gyp to his male, said he works pretty dang good, he does some ranch rodeos with my soon to be father in law

anybody know anything about a man named waters and his curdogs from around Ocochobe?

I have not read this whole thread but I would like to ask .   What breed of dogs makes up the Partin Cur ? 

Again... this is one of my favorite subjects  ;) ;D 

This is a pic of some men and thier dogs at a cow pen in 1910... same area of Florida the Partin dogs originated from...  What do you see in the picture  ;D

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm192/aprilcmetzger/251089_230955663704364_494991743_n.jpg)

Dog to the left looks like a big, leggy, wide chested cur, with a lot of ear??? and the second looks more like a bulldog...the othe two, kinda hard to see?

where's waldo?

Looks like mom pops and offspring to me

It is not always the ingredients that define a dish... it is the chef that knows how to manipulate those ingredients  ;) ;D

Partin dogs were the result of controlled line breeding, best type to best type to best type for many, many years.  Old Bud Partin and I talked about it for a lil' bit at a horse sale one time.  He said the Partin family was big enough, that when one of the family needed a good dog, they just went to a family member's ranch and bred best to best... over the years, the "type" of dog just "set".

The Partin blood is a very strong characteristic in most Florida Curs...  very easy to recognize

When my daddy talks about cow huntin...they most allways had a bulldog....the one dog looks like a plott.....

I got a good question...how many of ya'll have ever ridden in a half track?  I had an uncle from Apopka that had 1....that was the neatest thing I had ever seen...it was before the modern day buggies.

Who is your uncle in Apopka?That is my town I might know him. Those old half tracks were great.

My aunt divorced him probable 15 years ago or longer and Kinda lost track with him....but growing up I thought he rocked...he had hog dogs, bear dogs, deer dogs....he was a hunter and a dog man... His name was Bob Chapman..he worked construction and My aunt had a nursery.... I have floated down the river at rock springs a many a time  :)

wasn't the nursery next to th B-B-Que place and country store was it?

I know a Bob Chapman about in his sixties? Maybe same guy! Small world. I live on rock springs. I wish you could run dogs on it for bear. I have seen two treed in my neighbors yard.

I havent been there in so long I do not remember where their 2nd nursery was.  The one they had was behind there house and it was down a dirt road and it seems like maybe there was a BBq place close to where u turned.  There was an old store at the corner I think I can remember where u turned to kinda go to Rock Springs.  This has been 20 yrs ago.  My Aunt remarried and we do not really "agree" with her knew husband so I havent beeen down there alot.  As far as bears in Florida I have seeen them and some of you probable have where they have actually contracted Sarcoptic mainge.  This is the only population od bears known to have this.  It is because they are living in such close quarters to each other.  The super High numbers of bears coupled with the limited place for them to live.  There are alot of places in florida now that have more bear than anywhere I have seen, nothing tosee 4-5 in an afternoon just riding and looking.

There is a bar on the corner of rock springs dirt road. It has been there for years. The chapmans nursery is about 1 mile from there.

I remember a hog dog hunter named Bob Chapman from way back in the 1970's.  He hog hunted with Jack Martin Sr. alot on the same 39,000 acre tract I hunted back then (Seminole Ranch formerly Norris Cattle Co. back then).  Mann Bailey and Jack Walker ran the cows in there.

Hunted with Roy Partin back then also on their place South of St Cloud.  He had a red Fla Cur named "Rowdy".  Remember a hunt with Roy one day when Roy was up a tree hollering "catch'em Rowdy".  It was a big old spotted boar that wrecked some cow dogs and people over a year or two span.  Long story but I ended up with two broken hands trying to catch him the second time.  I had a Partin dog back then, an exact replica of Mark Chesser's Monkey dog and about as good.

Damm, that was a long time ago.  How'd I get this old?

Dave

That would be uncle Bob and I remember hearing Jack Martin and probable meeting him.

Does anybody have a picture of an old half track? 

Goose:  The ones i knew where more city slickers.  I went once and helped work cows with them and worked for one while i was in highschool/college at a store selling stuff.

Noah:  I already told you what was in that pic.  ;D

rdjustham i meant to say to sfboarbuster that his name was justin the one who worked for lykes sorry wasnt paying attention when i posted

sfboarbuster have you ever seen any of justins dogs work i gota and old gyp here that ive had for a while and me and my father in law were thinkng about carrying her over there and breeding her to him

I wasn't working there at the same time he was. Just heard a few stories about him.

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Saw this thread pop up again and thought  would post a pic of my pups just to show the Fla cur dogs can be pretty much any color. Unlike a lot of strains of cur dogs (I won't call them breeds) they haven't been breed for a certain color. I have seen Fla cur dogs in about every color you can imagine. Just depends on what was crossed in them and when, and the breeders preferences. I like the ringneck dogs myself, and a lot of the old Fla cur dogs came ringneck and pied (like the spotted pup). You don't see as many nowadays as many people are trying to breed them all a certain color. I have always said I don't think a GOOD dog can be a bad color......unless maybe its blue spotted...... O0

Pups at one week
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/Otispups5.jpg)

Pups at two weeks...they are big for their age but there are only three pups in this litter.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/otisxJJpups2weeks.jpg)

That pieded dog is gonna be a looker  ;)

It's not your usual yellow dog that's for sure!!  Be easy to spot in the woods too! ;D

Just wish it was a female!!!

I have watched this thread with much intrest. I think I would like these Florida dogs. Sure would be hard to get the real deal in ar tho.

Dug around my old photo albums and came up with some pics...some OLD ones....LOL So I took a pic of the old Polaroid pics with my phone and will try and post some of them.

This was Hub. He has been dead for over 20 years. To me, this is what a Fla cur dog should look like. Rough as a cob, used on hogs and cattle and would catch most anything. He would be my JJ female's great grandfather on her mothers side.  I would give $1,000 to have him back....just to breed!

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/Hub2.jpg)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/Hub.jpg)

A couple pics of colored pups. This litter was born about 20 years ago. Hub would be their grandfather, on the mothers side. A dog named Tip was their sire.  Out of 10 pups, 5 were black and white pied, one black & tan and the others were red or yellow and all had some white on them. Probably the best litter I ever raised. My old Dixie dogs mother came from this litter.

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/pied2.jpg)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/ring.jpg)

Pups a little older.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/color.jpg)

Yessir... that Hub dog represents... Very nice pic Mark

Mark, are those 3 pups spoken for.

Yes sir, these pups have been spoken for since before the breeding. In fact, I needed about 10 more pups for people that wanted them. I am keeping one pup, so will see how they do.

This is my Tar Baby gyp out of marks (Monkey x J.J) cross, she is a year and a half and really turning on, she has been striking her own and holding them there till another dog gets to her. She is on the shorter range side but that is how I have trained her as I only walk hunt. She will stay out around 100 yes continually hunting and check back in every 10 mins or so unless she strikes then you won't see her until she is bayed.i can't wait until she is completely finished, believe she is going to be a real decent dog! Thanks again mark for allowing me to raise one of your dogs

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zps9db4869c.jpg)

This is my tusk dog, he is out of some local ( Citrus County) cow dogs, he is about 8 years old now. He has struck and caught more hogs than I can count! He was a very very rough dog until about 2 or 3 years ago. As a young dog when he would strike a hog he would yip one time and when you heard that the hog would be squealing seconds after! He could anchor any hog he got on by himself and hold it there until we go there. Now that he is older when he strikes one he stays gritty enough to keep it stopped but won't catch bigger ones until I get there then I can tell him to catch and he will long enough for me to get my hands on it, then he will roll on if there are other hogs around! He is a real decent dog!

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zpsd7034c77.jpg)

These are some pups from an accidental breeding out of my tusk x tar baby cross

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zps1541eafa.jpg)
(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zps522eec95.jpg)
(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zpse32a005d.jpg)
(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zps6778904e.jpg)
(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zps03d7bf3f.jpg)
(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zps73a37b68.jpg)

how do i go about gettin a fla curr pup?? ive been asking around for dang near a year and cant find any .. if you know of anyone on here or around your are give me a pm on here i would really love to have one supper bad

I am just learning about these dogs myself to this extent. They are definately a dog that one day I would like to see and have one do their thing. Getting one here would be nearly impossible without knowing someone and a long drive.

Junior it looks like you got a LOT of color out of that litter! There was a guy that got the black & tan pup from that litter and he posted a pic of it on her a while back. Haven't seen anymore after that one post though.

Tar Baby looks good and glad to hear you like her. She is a Monkey x JJ offspring and the pups I posted a pic of above are Otis x JJ offspring. JJ was always on the ROUGH side and thats how she wound up getting her jaw broken....trying to catch a no eared hog that Monkey had bayed. I didn't know the hog didn't have ears when I sent JJ to the bay...........

Keep track of some of those pups and let me know how they turn out.

Toyota Todd is the only one not local that has one... He got lucky! I have kept one pied female and a couple buddy's have the other 4, I had to cull 2 at 4 months old because they were to aggressive towards me and my kids, they got to were they would bite the tar out of me anytime I tried to handle them! It was a shame because they were my picks! They are 6 months old now, and I took mine to the woods and ran here with her sire and she was ranging around 200-300 yards with my tusk dog. He usually don't hunt that that far out but I think that pup was pushing him! She should turn out pretty decent I hope

yea i know .. it would be pretty neat to have one tho

Most people with good dogs in Florida, especially the old timers won't give up or sell a dog to a person they don't know. Sometimes they get down right defensive if you even ask about their dogs.

Junior you should have called me before you culled the mean dogs...they would fit right in here at my place....... ;D

Yep...  ;D    .... from personal experience... you want a dog out of this type of person's stock... you have to learn to think like them... I have a "delicate" relationship with just this type... if for ONE SECOND they thought I might sell what we produce, I would be cut off... as well, if I know someone has a prepotency to sell dogs, they will never get a dog from me.

Most of the people I trade dogs with are well out of my area and there is no overlap of territory... mutual respect of control of blood, breedings are agreed upon, progeny is kept and the rest culled unless agreed upon otherwise.



Many other factors that do not have transparent reasons...

The fact of the matter is... I know most every high end FL Cur breeder...  there are not many great lines left.   I do believe that the hog hunters are doing more to preserve this type of dog than the dayworkers...  I could point out many, many examples

Here is two that came from Mr. Ralph
(http://emob1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj494/hansonw205/E53ED507-1EEC-4060-A2E6-97976D8D3676-8681-00000B52AADF3BA8.jpg)

Okay Noah...here you go! Better be careful what you ask for...... ;D  I have about 10 photo albums of dog & hog pics and boxes of old pics that would have to be sorted through.

Picked out a couple from my old line of dogs. I have had these dogs for 6 generations of dogs, going on 30 years with the same line. Monkey is the only Partin dog I have and got him to cross with what I had. Jury is still out if that cross is going to work the way I want it to or not. Monkey has only been bred to two females in his life. Both my dogs, as I don't breed outside females,  so we will see.....

Pic one. This is Pup at about 11-12 years old. The Grand Matriarch of all my dogs. This is the dog that got me started in the family of curs I have now. GREAT dog. Unfortunately I didn't raise many pups back in the day and only raised one litter from her. I didn't know what I had back then or how hard it would be to find today! Otherwise I would have raised a PILE of these dogs. They were rough, never quit type of dogs that would catch about any hog or get cut down trying. Until two years ago (when Cward brought me a pup) I NEVER owned or fed a bulldog. Everything I caught was with cur dogs. I thought that was normal...... :o
Great old dog.........and great producer.
 (http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790448502.jpg)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790466479.jpg)

Pup and one of her daughters I called PJ . PJ was sired by Hub (see pic above)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790749865.jpg)

Another Hub x Pup offspring. Probably the most conformationally correct dog I ever owned. Littermate to PJ above.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790506559.jpg)

The two sisters together. They hated each other..... ;D
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790528576.jpg)

Lull before the dog fight.........thats Pup and my old Half Pint dog in the pic too.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790520169.jpg)

Half Pint. Not exactly sure WHAT this dog was. She was given to me as a 6 week old pup and I was told she was a "Partin" cur....go figure. She has been dead about 11 years now. Probably the smartest dog I ever owned. I never bred her as I wasn't sure what her breeding was....but I would bet money she wasn't Partin bred! Used her on cows and hogs and she was smarter than most of the people I have met in my life. Really a cool dog.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790490947.jpg)

PJ and Half Pint......you didn't touch the truck when they were in it....it didn't matter if you were a cow, a person or an elephant...they were going to BITE whatever got close!
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/1356790480310.jpg)

Forgot to mention that these pics were taken around 1987-1989?? That's my Ford Ranger in the pic and its a 1983 model. It wasn't new when pics were taken so pics had to be taken a few years after that.  Scary thing is, I still have that truck!!

Mark your older dogs have the look I like! They have the nice short coats, very athletic bodies that look like the can run all day in the hot Florida Swamp. Monkey has the longer coat compared to your older dogs.

Noah it's hard to know all the ranchers/cowboys that have top Fl Curs!! There are so many ranches in the state and 7x the amount of cowboys working the ranches!! Example was when I asked if you knew Hobby Campbell. His family has been here ranching and cowboying as long if not longer then the Partins..

All breeds of dogs were developed by the breeder using dogs that had the traits to produce what they wanted in their dogs. The Florida Curs are no different. Working cattle, hunting, and for protection of themselves and property they used dogs to produce that dog. No secret formula.. Depending of the ranch, Peeples, Morgan, Partin, Bickers, etc, thedogs all had a different look, but they all work the same way!!! Some people like to create some kind of legend or persona about thier dogs to have others think what they have are special or better then others dogs. It's kind of funny if you listen to all of the stories told!!!

Crackerc - dang look at the shoulders in the dogs.  Great pics. 

Reminds me of all the all cur dogs i was used to seeing growing up.  They werent known to me by any "special" name.  People just had cur dogs! That were either cow dogs or hog dogs and sometimes both.  Kind of like the ol' bulldogs you used to see....with the old cur or bulldogs, they didnt need to be any special color, they just had that look...i guess untill some people figured they'd try to make it rich or famous selling dogs

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DWest, I was the same way. Growing up all the ranches and dayworkers had "cur" dogs...that was it. No names for them, no papers, nothing. But they all worked and were good all around dogs. Now that more and more people are hog hunting and getting cur dogs it seems the quality of cur dogs has gone downhill.......not sure why that is, but its hard to find the old time Fla cur dogs like the ones that used to be around 20-30 years ago.

I had an old man buy one of those black & white pups years ago. He was in his 80's, born & raised in Fla, had cattle and cur dogs his whole life. He told me thats what a cur dog is supposed to look like! That dog made a heck of a cow dog for him and he had it for 3-4 years. Several people tried to buy the dog as he could take that one dog and pen cattle that other people couldn't. He wouldn't sell the dog and at night he chained it in his horse barn so it wouldn't wander. He went out to turn it loose one morning and there were boot tracks in his barn and an empty chain. It about killed that old man that someone stole his dog......

Thats why I don't mind a mean dog. Mine WILL bite.....ask anyone that has been around them. And 90% of all the cur dogs I was around growing up would bite a stranger..........

... never met this guy/hunted with him to give perspective, however, he is undoubtably an excellent trainer....  He lives/hunts the same areas I do, just have not had the opportunity to bump into each other yet... I'd love to make a few hunts with the man to compare notes in the near future.

I feel this is an accurate example of the "rougher side" of the Florida Cur history.  Very typical of " South Florida mentality", in that, the "rough" areas on most ranches(bad ass thick palmetto), make it pretty much impossible to get close enough to stop a hog and bay it.... by necessity then(as bottom is not a viable option considering typical property size), STOPPING POWER/SPEED is bred for... to stop them before they can make it to the "rough"...  a FUNDAMENTAL/QUALIFYING trait of any good Florida Cur in my opinion...

... just thought this was an interesting video to show some background on some Florida "style"...

http://youtu.be/zHPNYhYiJe4

Gary Clark is a friend of mine! You wont find a nicer or more knowledgable guy! For the first time I got to hunt with him at my Ranch this past week. He has been working in North Dakota in the oil fields and not hunting as much. My friend Tyler in N FL owns "Bonnie" the brown cur from the video. She is the mom to all those dogs. Gary mainly walk hunts or sight cast. The handle he has on his dogs is AMAZING. Wait for the enxt video were going to shoot some at my Ranch and maybe you will even see me running in there LOL  ;D ;) :D 

Very cool Matt  ;D  We all need to get together and drop some dogs, your place or mine.  I'd like to see something different to check my own chit.

Go to Matts place! You can catch a hog with a cast net ;)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

HAHAHA dont tell him that! The time we go well get skunked somehow!  ;) There's a couple hogs running around.

Im not sure how old Gary is but I would nick name him "The ageless wonder" when I say he walk hunt's  I mean "Walk the dogs on top of the hogs" he crashes into heads like a buggy! Thick or not it does not bother him. He cannot stand sitting still. Well try and get something lined up.

Gary is a great person i got the pleasure of meeting him as well!

noah u know gil ? damn shame bout jt few years agi buddy mine dad ran with gil for yeaes over here brevard county before palm bay popped up like wildfire man had has some sure fine curr dogs them young bouys of his would get out there show lot these dolks to shame at 13 yo with um lol

I've still got the black an tan gyp.  She is doing pretty well.  I've started taking her out in the woods some.  She still is not quite mature enough for me to start doing any serious training.  She has seen some hogs and is showing interest.  I'll try to get some pics up of her when I get back from this MS duck hunting trip.  She has a great personality and a pretty decent nose for being this age.  She does have a little aggression with another gyp cat that I have.  But the cat gyp has been known to cause some problems with othe females I have.  She might not be in my yard much longer if she has anymore serious fights.  After the jan/feb toso hunts I plan on starting her training hard.

Toyota Todd, I kept one of the pied females and have started fooling with her a little bit! She is baying hogs already but will only bay if she is with another dog that is baying or caught....just a maturity issue! These pups are only 6 months old (born 2012June09). I have took her to the woods only one time and she did very well for her first trip! We did not get on any hogs but she stayed with her sire the entire hunt ranging between 200-300 yds on average only checking in with him every 10-15 mins.i am very pleased with my pup so far and hoping to get her on some hogs very soon to get her exposed out of a controlled environment

And I forgot to mention if she don't work out for you I buy Her back from you she don't go to anyone else!!!

I have pretty high hopes for her.  Guess only a little time will tell.  Hopin she falls in the footsteps of another cur gyp I have.  If I ever decide to get rid of her ill let you know.  I still have your number and always give the seller the first opportunity on a dog that doesn't fit with my pack.  I'll tell you one thing though, she is fast as hell!  Not sure about the ones you kept but mine (suey) has a lot of leg and seems to be exceptional on the brains side.  She is just startin to fill out some, I'm pretty curious how she will turn out, structure wise, in another 6 months.  Might take her along for the toso hunt just to watch on a lead and get her excited watching the other dogs. 

tofd what toso hunt u got i will be running opning day the 11th

Ill be goin as a guest on opening day with a group of buds.  Then I drew the second quota hunt in feb.

Circle S, heres a couple pics of the pup I got from you, hard to keep her still!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b382/todd4food/photo1_zpse3994101.jpg)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b382/todd4food/photo2_zps4d75a78d.jpg)

Toyota Todd she looks good but her color is changing a lot since she left my yard!

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zps948e4a94.jpg)

Here is my female she is going to big on the bigger side like her sire and I think yours is going to be like her dam on the smaller side

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zpsf0bf756b.jpg)

Uh oh...don't know what happened there? Second try

(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/sarahwines13/image_zpsc79701e6.jpg)

I give up! Turn ur computer upside down for a better view

I really like the way that dog you have is turning out.  Mine is getting pretty tall, I think she will pass up my other cur for sure.  Was hoping for her to start filling out some more but it don't look like she is.  Been feedin her plenty and she don't keep much weight on.  For size refrence, the tennis ball in the pic is one of those big tennis balls, probably 5-6inches.  How many total did you keep out of that litter, 2?  Mine does act a little on the skittsh side.  She is getting better, hopefully something she will grow out of.  Not sure how she is going to do with the rest of my dogs, they all catch unless its too big.  Even then alot of the time they will try, then bay if they can't.  Not this weekend but next weekend i'm gonna start working with her as much as I can.  She's only seen a hog a couple times, just don't wanna over due it until shes ready.  Keep me posted on how yours turn out when you start huntin her.  Anymore litters planned this year?

When you start her run her by herself with just one good older finished dog that has no bad habits and she should do just fine! The blood is there on both parents sides.... Sire a lot rougher than dam but she should do good! I have mine in the woods twice now and she has stayed with her sire hunting all day long, we got on three hogs Sunday all too big for just the two of them, we were in gulf hammock and a lot of people have been running them with hounds lately so them hogs have there NIKES on right now!!!!! They tried all three of them but couldn't hold them more than 30 seconds and they broke and ended up running them between two to three miles on each different hog. Not a good thing to build confidence in a young dog but I am working on that! I need to find a good hunting buddy that has a good finished dog that I can run some younger dogs with because my main dog is over 8 years old now and is starting to become a push over on big hogs, and these young dogs need to learn how to shut them down! Mine is baying good with another dog but hasn't got gritty enough because she hasn't been exposed enough yet... Will come with time, now that deer season is over and the hounds are put back up! As far as any expected litters go, I do not plan on breeding any until I need another dog. I don't breed to sell other people dogs. The pup that you got was from an accidental breeding and I did not want to keep all of them. I may breed the parents to your dog again once the dam proves her self as a completely finished dog but that depends on if he is still kicking then!! I would like to breed her back to some of marks blood but I don't believe that will happen ??? And I had originally kept two different ones but I had to cull them for aggression reasons towards me and my youngins.... So I got that female back from a buddy that had got her and one of the males

The past generations of my family grew up on ranches or worked on ranches, my grandfathers best friend was a ranch owner and bred real fl curs. I talked to him one day about dogs and as a lot of the other posters have said, he said ridgeback, bird dog, redbone, and he said a lot of ranchers would mix bulldog in once or twice to get a catchy trait, but then quit the bulldog breeding. Anyhow, like a lot of ranchers my grandfather bred to have a long range, cold nosed, gritty dog. He also bred for color. After the years he has come up with a line that is similar to the "foundation bmc" they are built basicly the same, but with a little broader chest. Every litter, I've been able to see and every pup comes out the exact same. They are all a creamy yellow dog with a white chest, and white feet, and a black mouth. How he gets the same colors in every litter, I still haven't figured out. But I do know they make the BEST hog dogs I've ever personally seen. They all start real early and listen extremely well. Good thing for me, the gentleman don't believe in selling dogs so I get free puppies whenever I need. The rest get picked up and brought to a ranch in Texas.

Some of the best I have seen lately are Old FL cur crossed up with bird dog. They look under ever blade of grass and are real gritty dogs.

I know this post is old, I just read it for the first time, good reading! I was wondering if those dogs on that video of the hog wrangler are florida curs?

Blew the dust off of a good bottle that time. 

for sure! i coulda kept reading into the night :)

The dogs on the hog wrangler videos are blackmouth & bulldog

Tyler Lee in north Florida ended up with that female Bonnie from the videos

thank you! Ive been wondering that for years. in the comments under the vid on you tube everyone thinks they are pits. but they dont look it. mystery solved!

No problem