EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

(Doing a bit of brainstorming here... so bare with me  ;D)
     I have noticed well respected hunters throughout the state have been having an increasingly hard time finding quality replacement catch dogs when they are needed... a very specific quality of animal that not many can find...  I have been toying with the idea of doing a catch dog litter for a while now, and have a fairly extensive network of good genetics to work with... many different possible combinations to produce the type of catch dog that "I" would prefer for myself...

I enjoy raising dogs, as much of a pain in the ass as it is... I still greatly enjoy it... The fact of the matter is, I am after a very specific "one" when I do make a breeding... and it takes keeping the whole litter for a good bit for me to see which pup "is" that one to me... Lot of dog food... medicine... etc.... To make it more affordable for me to do this, I imagine taking deposits with a refund agreement of some sort...

I would, ideally, like to keep the whole litter to 4-5mnths... make my pick, then divy out what dogs have made the initial cuts... Although I realize most people would like to have a CD from as early an age as possible for obvious socialization issues, this is how I'll do it... if I do it...

I want, basically, a med/large, leggy, straight catch cur dog... 70-90#'s... ATHLETIC/FAST/QUICK like a good cur dog should be... easy on the eyes... and SHUT YOUR EYES HARD.   

So on to YOUR ideal catch dog... size(weight), build(conformation), breed preference(or cross thereof), etc... What would you like to see?

Bout 40 lbs of nothing but pure heart... that bout sums it up.

Noah,  I'm sure I haven't owned the "best catch dog" there evee was....but the best catchdog I ever owned was smart.  He knew how to catch the big boars and stay alive.  The other trait I look for is stamina...my catchdog must be able to catch a hog and then be in good enough shape to catch another and another.  So I look for brains and stamina.  You may ask what about heart...if he aint got heart he wouldn't be a catchdog in the first place.  JMO

noah   you just opened a whole can of worms   i wanna see  pauls T chime  in on this ....lol

I've been fortunate with my catch dogs. I've done one breeding and I have a heck of a male size wize but he's a lil too wide. I prefer pits. I was into pits before I even started hunting hogs. I have a female that's a house dog that if I'd let her would catch everyone of my pigs. She's more on the lean side and not as wide but she don't have much of a head on her or jaw size. I'm thinking of crossing my big bulky 90 lb big headed pit back to my lean athletic leggy gyp.

The one I kept out of my last litter specifically for catching ain't nothin' but a black block headed catchin' machine. He's a year and a half and hasn't missed an ear and can get to a bay quick regarless of how thick it is and is stout enuff to hold for a long time and then still have some for another pig.

So I guess in general I like pits that are from 65-90 lbs with a big head and good wide front but then from there to the back with a lot of leg about knee high. I've really liked the looks of the "Old Family Reds" just don't have any true ones close to me and they are pretty pricey but if I had the money I'd ship one in.

lol X2

24 inches tall at shoulder.  Somewhere 70 to 80 pounds.  Big head big chest with wind to spare.  Ridgeback/pit is my where I'm starting.  May breed in a little something else for SOME hunt but I think I should have what I want.  Idealy would 3/8 pit 3/8 ridgeback 2/8 something of good size and smart.

RCD or walkin ?

Don't know if you asking me or not but want both in one dog.

My buddy got ridgeback / pit
Catching lil sum gun..
First time ever seeing a hog he hit ear and held
Now he hog crazy..

Landon I see u don't got hope in the white pups
Ya got haha jk

I have caught hogs behind lots of great catchdogs but have only seen 3 that I would say were the best I ever seen. They were all alittle different but the brain they had. Caught on command only never leashed,never left your side until told to go catch. Once hog was caught told when to let go then went and laid down why you tied the hog. If hog broke bay before initial hit came straight back to me. I used this one little dog even with no k9. She was amazing I had another that would catch and handle just like her but alittle more hard headed when hog broke from bay she would stay until caught but once caught her handle came back. The third was a black lab that won every catch competition he ever entered just wow we kinda of catch dog..

If we're talking dream dogs id say...
built like "Mayday", light yellow with a black mask, catches like a bear trap, smarter than lassie.

Ok here goes... 8)

26-28 inches at the shoulder
75-85 lbs
six inch neck (collar wise) and a long tail
Balanced head with a long muzzle
Leggy
Clean holder
Fast and hard

Kinda disappointed Paul I was figuring on more reading ;D

Well I could have gone on for half the night.....but thats a start  ;D

Noah I know you are not a APBT guy but if you'll go to the ADBA website and look up they're Basis for Conformation I think you will see the build of dog you are looking for. They explain a lot about why they are built like they are.

5/8rednose 1/4dogo 1/4 lab if I could make one from scratch

If my math is correct that'd be a heck of a 1 1/8 dog 8) haha

40-50lb APBT deep and wide chest with lots of lung, nice head, wide muzzle, long legs, and strong. Something similar to this old dog of mine.
(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/tmatthews78/IMAG0168.jpg)
Or this one.
(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/tmatthews78/IMAG0158.jpg)
Or even this one, she's a little small though at 35lbs.
(http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m622/tmatthews78/2011-10-02_162240-1.jpg)

That is exactly what I want in a catch dog.

If it does that,every other thing goes out the window....Breed, size, color.

A good brain/trainability seem to be a common denominator... Another reason I now prefer to avoid straight bull blood dogs.... A catch dog with a "cur" brain, desireable yes?

... Next question for all you hard core bulldog guys.... If u could have a CD with identical weight/hardness of catch BUT with a more athletic cur style body.... Would you not want that, or is there something about the awkward typical bull build you feel makes a better CD?

Well I like one that is around 60-65 lbs.  One that has some leg on him for leverage , one thats is built even threw out his body,  nice deep broad chest , one that has some bone on him, big nice stout head with a deep squared muzzle were he can get a mouth full ,  One that has thick thick teeth med-long thick is a must  , the long teeth that have no mass to them tend to get broke off quick .  I like dogs that are heavier than they look to the eye when you try to pick that dog up you go damnnnnnnnn . I like to be able to feel the power n a bulldog soon as you touch him you can feel it for sure.  A hard hard mouth once he is caught I dont even mind taken a ear when me when it is all said and done.  A athletic dog is a must with speed and quickness,  I dont care how great a dog looks if he is slow he aint gonna make it speed kills and that is a must for me.  One with a straight mouth a crooked mouth dog aint gonna last long and above all one that has a heart with no quit.

Seems like a lot huh that is the perfect catch bull dog ,dog to me.   Dogs like that are kinda hard to find these days unless you know were to look.  I lucked out and got a good one last year that fits all of that and I got a young dog from a friend that Iam hoping will fit that bill this year.

Haha apparently autotype doesn't know what an 1/8is

Her is is 5/8rednose 1/4dogo 1/8lab  rolleyes

Noah

Being a bulldog breeder for over 25 yrs this is my take.  Some Pits are just freaks .  There head , body , weight is all out of proportions.  I have seen some that you would think could not pop a grape but when locked down you need a crowbar to get them off little PIN heads small teeth but the power in these kinds of dogs is very misleading some may look like they are frail till put to the test and then they are monsters in sheep's clothing .  They may look all out of proportions but are sticks of dynamite .  These dogs are out there I have seen them and witnessed them.  The kinds of dogs that just make you shake your head and say damn were the hell did that come from .

I've seen them too, no doubt bite strength has less to do with head shape than the dog... I have seen a couple pits that were good, fast athletes.... But still got that brain issue lol... Not acceptable to me

As for walk-in vs. RCD, what I'm after should be able to do both...

...all of this was brought about when, on a hunt down south, discovered a major hole in my program... A CD Athletic enough to slip into a big palmetto head and catch without making the hog break... A necessity for hunting that terrain... Which is why many south Florida hunters use straight catch curs instead of bulldogs...

Just for reading purposes I will give you a example of one of these Little pin head dogs.

I had a little bulldog named Cannon Ball he was little maybe 40 lbs soaking wet out of proportion little short thick teeth didnt look like much a real calm nice dog would not hurt a flea but learned to hate a hog.  I went and got this dog from a friend I had given him to and I had bred this liter.  Well Tom had a friend that had caught a big boar hog in one of them trailer kinda traps and they could not get the hog out of the trap he was big bad and mean and just a dangerous kinda hog with teeth .  He called me and ask if I thought I could get him out the trailer I said well I can't but I got something that will.  I drove up with little Cannon Ball  Tom had never seen him as I had just got him back. There were a  few older men  standing around and saying what are you gonna do with that ahahahahahahahahah  little thing. I said am gonna get that hog outta there.   The one guy said aint no way man I said well I bet you 50 bucks I will have that hog out of that trailer in less than five mins and in your pen after I turn this bulldog loose he said you are on aint no way  I got to see.  This trailer had a walk in gate at front of it and a little gate at the back of it ,  Told Tom when I holler you open that little gate , told this one guy to stand in front of that gate and hold Cannon Ball and soon as I  holler and tom opens that gate  you let him go he said ok . Waited for the hog to get turned just right and I hollered Tom pull the gate and if you was not looking u missed it  hahaahahahahah the dog hit that hog so fast you could not hardly see it .  He locked on I got inbehind the hog legged him and walked him out of the trailer over to the pen and Tom was trying to break Cannon Ball off ahahahahah he could not get him off and by now i was wore out holding the big hog so Tom took out his pocket knife and ole Cannon Ball got his trophy ahhahahahahahah and I got me 50 bucks .  Tom said damn man damn I open the gate and it happen so fast I didnt even see the dog hit the ear ahahahahahahhahahahahahahaah the dog was faster than my eyes . ahhaahhahahaahha.  The looks on them peoples face was worth a million dollars man .

I agree man you got to have the brains for sure its a must.  Just kinda scrolled threw all of this .  Yeah a Bulldog without any smarts is worthless really and a lot of them will get a man in big trouble.

i have stayed  out  of this because i love to read but hate the  bashing of people that  take a different path

that being said   i have a dog now not sayin he is a perfect dog   but he fits what i want to a T

 25-26inches at the shoulder
 athlectic built     deep chested  long legs travles with a long stride
 good thick long neck
around 80 pounds  
   a smart dog one that can be droped on a small  property on the ground with just a strike dog or by him self has a good nose
dog  cant fight and shake the  pig  just  hold it
must have a handle tapped on the head  and told caught hog lets go  
 can be trusted in the box  with anything
will go to a single bark or a solid bay it dont matter
has the lung  and brains to run farther and  hold longer
 

Sounds like a nice dog, got a picture of him?

Lol just giving a hard time. Sorry to take away from the post!

My ideal dog is about 65 - 75 pounds of athleticism, I lean towards Pits because I personally like their personalities but honestly I could care less about breed if I could find one that was built right.  The dog we have right now is some sort of Mastiff Heinz 57 but he has NO hesitation about his job and his personality makes him a pleasure (except that he whines in the box with no stop / solution) but he is too wide making a little less agile and having a gait more than a smooth stride when he runs.

I like a long legged, deep chested / girthed dog with a longer nose built for running, here are a few examples of the athleticism that I prefer over the short and wide dogs:

Nickel was a  AB x Leopard but he was started (IMO) wrong with hesitation on larger hogs and once he was off if you didn’t grab him he was coming back for WHATEVER he could put his teeth on, which is unacceptable to us so we gave him back to the man who raised him.  I sure wish we had gotten him when he was smaller because I always thought he had a great potential that was missed out on.
(http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac209/rafeallen/IMG_7044.jpg)

Ruger was probably 65 pounds when a gator got him but he was laid back and never said a word.  Once he caught a hog he was at the truck or sitting beside you waiting to go back to load up.  He was a protector of our little boy and didn’t allow strangers near him, he also played ball and could be trusted around all livestock etc.
(http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac209/rafeallen/ruger.jpg)

 I want a dog with no hesitation, our currs will catch pretty much anything but there are times where they do back up and bay, I do not want that in our catch dog but I also want the trainability portion / brains that our currs have because I do not need some nutso catch anything no mannered bull dog running around because he is more of a liability than an asset to me.

I am also one of the few that prefer a 5 or 6 month old puppy than an 8 to 10 week old one.

(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/w-tate/7-23003.jpg)
the black dog noah     ( and  no i dont run him with out a vest it was about 120 that night)

I think for what its worth that a lot of folks confuse catching anchoring and holding a hog for catching and fighting a hog.  There is a big big difference .  A dog that will catch lock down press his body into the hogs, anchor a hog and hold him in my opinion is way way better than a dog that will catch a hog on the ear and start to fight the hog by shaking out of control and just general fighting the hog if that happens the hog is not under control he is just caught and this is were lots of dogs meet there makers curs and catch dogs.  So look for that when you are looking for a good catch dog. 

Completely agree on the anchor aspect, BIG difference...  Having a dog with some ASS/leg sure does help on those big hogs.... Especially if you don't have a pile of other dogs with him to help catch...

W-Tate nice looking dog, little finer built than what I'd like but built good!  What is he?

Mr Mason's Catdo's are a good "type" example of what Im leaning towards... Athletic Dogo crossed on a hard catching cur dog...

noah  that was 6 months ago he is alot thincker now    he is a  pitxdane the  black dog  so far has been the real deal   he will be 2 in feb. been on several  big pigs i have sent him to a single bark in open country as far as 750 yards  he uses his brain  i hear mr masons catdos are good dogs i like there build also     i recently picked up a  pitxairdale   he is comeing along   he had a rough life befor i got him but he is make a catch dog   has alot of drive and hunt   

Noah,

To your last question I would say whatever consistently catches and their is no doubt ever in my mind that it may start baying. My only scare in a cur catchdog type would be that in a bad situation with a bad boar in a tight spot and myself or a friend and dog gets ass handed to him and begins to bark instead of engaged.  I have been lucky to hunt over the last decade with some guys with great curs that can shut most any hog down under 150.  Been plenty of times I brought my CD and been able to just tie him up and leg 150 pound boars or barrs cause a good cur was already locked down.  I have also seen at some of the catchdofg comps back in day where a great cur that actually won a competition in past and he had never in his years bayed and I know and have hunted with the owners,  o I believe them.  It was a head to head major collision and low and behold the cur finally bayed up.  It was a big mean boar as well, I thought to myself if we were in a tight place and I was down there I would/ve been screwed.  A Bulldog it could happen as well but I think you have a better chance with a great straight pit or AB to continue to battle.  I also seen plenty of good mixes of cur bulldog.  CWARD, I know some guys in Cleveland that had a Cur x Black lab that was a hell of a catchdog, I wonder if it was same one.  They called him Blackie or Black dog but I remember them telling me it was half cur as well.  That was a good catchdog.  It hink my bulldog beat him though so it may be a differant one if you say this one never lost.  Either way it was a good dog and seen him do good in woods as well.  Got a little sidetracked but Noah the way you word it about awkward bulldog would make it sound like you may have not hunted with an athletic pit or AB.  Some can be very fast and athletic, I can see maybe your point though because on a whole they are not as athletic as curr, I'm just talking about the cream of the crop since you are saying ideal.  I don't think anyone's ideal CD would be an awkward chainsaw breathing pit or AB.  I would agree that the thing most cur mix catchdogs bring is better heat tolerence typically but the good ones will die before they would ever bark.  I also have seen bulldogs that have smarts as well.  A good dogman or woman can put some serious obediance on a bulldog sort of like what CWARD described although those seem to be some of the best if you can break one off verbally.  I've never even tried that, I've always wanted my CD to have to be broken off but would be great to see a surefire CD you could call off and he would go lay down.

I like mine two ways athletic or somethin like a lineman hittin a 2nd grader

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii166/southrnboi069/76eced4b.jpg)

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii166/southrnboi069/e5745291.jpg)

i agree with alot of what he said

but on the other hand i totally know what noah is saying wanting a great catch dog with brains , i have has a couple pits in my life and 1 was a great little catch dog that i raised from a pup and had around many different dogs people etc..1 day that dog tryed to jump on a 4 month old puppy out of the blue? after that i never trusted her around my kids or dogs so she meet her maker. but i know people have raised their on line for many generations and they claim absolute no people or dog aggression. i just aint been fortunate enough to see 1.

They are definitely muscled up!! Id love to see a pic of them on a hog!!!

Whatever dogs I choose to pair, you can bet will be chosen from truly hard dogs... The problem with using non-bull types(Dane, Ridge, Mastiff, etc) for the purposes of increasing size, is it seems the bite strength/hardness is not always consistent with that of a good bulldog... 

Making sure both sides of the pairing are proven hard dogs should help with the percentage of pups to turn out...

I don't believe you are adding anything to a catch dog by breeding a bay dog into it.  If you want handle ability to hold and brains the answer is simple.  Find a pair of catch dogs that have these qualities.  There are some great performance bred ABs, pits, and dogos that possess these traits.  When we breed dogs for catching we look at brains stamina and recovery time much more so than pure brawn. I like a dog that can turn it on when it's go time and shut it down just as fast once the job is done.  I like leading my dog to a bay not the dog leading me.  I also like when my catch dog can be turned loose into a group of hogs and keys on the larger hogs and not pig crushing.  We have been fortunate enough to have these qualities in our catch dogs and will continue to try and breed for more like them when needed.  As far as looks go, I like long legs deep chested dogs with a longer muzzle (sure big headed mongrels look cool but longer muzzles tend to breathe better) that are athletic and can flat out run.  I do not like an extremely broad chested dog or one with a short neck.  I also prefer my catch dogs white seems the hogs go toward the catch dog which means caught pig also easier to determine which is the business end at night.

I agree with not trying to cross a bay dog on something in hopes of making high percentage catch dogs... but there are good lines of cur dogs over here that are known for being straight catch... what they lack, in my opinion, is size.... that's where I want to bring in a Dogo or other larger breed that would complement the cur dog and vice versa... bring the big dog's size down a bit, add to athleticism... maintain hardness...

An example... My Shine dog(my lead "bay dog"), both her mother and father were used as walk in catch dogs as well as strike dogs... both VISE GRIP hard... and I mean hard... If I wasn't worried about birthing complications I'd cross Shine with an athletic Dogo and I'd be set... Shine moves through a briar patch like a damn rabbit... a quality that most CD's lack...

How big are your CD's(I mean Krystal's CD's ;D) Doggie?  They're straight Dogo right? 

I doubt you will. What we have here is purely an Internet hogger.  >:D

For the record, the smartest dog I ever worked with was a pure pit. I've messed with all different types and breeds, but he was truly the smartest and easiest commanded dog I've ever worked with.  I kick myself everytime I think about heat stroking him. Were there better catchdogs? Yes. Was he a great all-around catch dog? Yes. He was the total package.

My boy . I almost sold him a couple times just could'nt make myself do it , glad I did'nt.

(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i412/mrstexashogdogs/boooj.jpg)

(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i412/mrstexashogdogs/dogs014.jpg)

Two good'ens.  White one is Cory's.
(http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i412/mrstexashogdogs/swjimcory014.jpg)

noah i think shiner would survive pups with a dogo cross

and cutter someone has to take over boar ninjas spot  rolleyes ;D

Boarninja posts pics atleast once a year...  ;D

My Cotton dog is about 75# and is half AB half Dogo. Krystal's main catch dog Smoochy is a full sister and closer to 90#.  Both are very good natured and both run extremely well.  We do have Karma that is 3/4 AB and 1/4 Dogo and is probably our most athletic dog but she lacks the calmness of the other two.  I understand where you are coming from on rough lines of currs but if you're speaking catch dogs and overall probabilities of being a great CD I feel you can find the specimen of one of the bully breeds and use that.  

hey i post pics... well not of hogs but pics none the less sir

plus nobody asks....  :-X

I want to see pics of you with your dogs and at least one hog in the woods ( not pen). There I asked.  :laugh:

My ridgeback has one hell of a bite when he locks aint nothing but choking or break stick if u can get it in there going to get him off.  With a good ridgeback I don't think you will lose any hardness.  Maybe I'm just lucky but the female I have is really showing to be hard as well and straight catch or extremely gritty so to me crossing with something like this is no different that a straight catch cur dog.  Imo I think you would get exactly what your looking for in a ridgeback/pit.  The size is not what I am trying to add it is his brains, heat tolerance, wind and ability to move.

no offense i havr seen and owned a few  ridgebacks    there to goofy lack the brains  that jmo

x2, most the Ridgebacks I've been around were gorgeous goof balls prone to cancer... show bred in other words... wonder if there's still any working lines out there... defenitely good looking dogs

i think you can get some out of african blood lines  but   not sure   i have only seen one in my entire life that wasnt just a spaz

I'm going on limited experience with the ones I have been around.  Goofy yes but smart as can be but I don't mind the goofyness they know when it is work time.

I have a rigeback cur and hes one of the best catch dogs ive seen. Perfectly silent with one hell of a bite. Need a break stick to get off. In glad he s on my side lol. I think everyone is on the bulldog bandwagon though.

If you're trying to start a "line", then stick with the bulldog breeds. Yes, you may get some damn good crosses with cur dogs, but what's gonna happen when you breed the offspring? Those pups more than likely will be all over the place.

You've got the dogo, find you a couple of good pit gyps if you want to get the size down... and take it from there.

Just not exactly what I'm after Mike...  ;D  I don't mind a few culls as long as I get EXACTLY what I'm after

Would you not like to reproduce that Clifford dog you used to have?  Always liked the looks of that sucker

3/4 catahoula 1/4 pit, 82 lbs. Long legs, big head, very athletic build not
To bulky (http://img.tapatalk.com/42520963-74ed-3fca.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/42520963-752f-9aea.jpg)

Only problem is If you are going to tie um you have to use a break stick to get him off.

I would have loved to reproduce Clifford. But I always knew it would be a crap shoot because he was an AB/ cat cross. I would have only bred him back to a full AB. Even then there was no guarantees because of the 1/4 cur blood.

Like I said, you may find a hell of an F1 cross, but your cull rate will increase dramatically when you breed them... assuming you're looking for straight catch dogs.

Or you could find another great catchd and BAM awesomness jk. And Mike it still wont let me post any pics

Don't mind the high cull rate, if it means possible improvement on what I have seen...  I don't like what I see.  You can breed good to good and maybe get mediocre...  breed good to "freak" and you may just get lucky and set a standard for the "new" good  ;D

Only one way to find out I guess  ;D

Noah your not going to have any trouble with hardness in this type of cross and I do think you are on the right track. The "type" of cur dog you will use supplies the hardness with brains that you seek and the Dogo just give you a little more frame and weight without sacrificing anything else.

Keeping the litter and making your pics when they are at an age where you know what you have will produce results. I have worked with hard cur dogs for quite a while, when one or two can catch and hold grown horned cattle without getting killed then that is the right type of cur dog for a cross like this.

make them a 1/4 Stag and they might be perfect 8)

You seem to get in with a few old dogmen in your area, start asking for who they respected in the pits. Then if you're able, scribe a hand written letter describing your desire and intent.

Then pray.

I dont think youve described anything out of the realm of possibilities for a true game pit. They aren't bulked up bad boys or dumb brutes. Well actually, what do i know, im still in the process of finding the man to write a letter to.  ;)

Thanks Paul, you and I on the same page I think 

T-Bob, I ain't got nothin' against pits or AmBulls, just never seen one I'd use to make what I'm after... but there might be some out there I guess

No hard feelings here, that's the way the creators of the Dogo Argentine felt as well and we all see the fruits of their labor. NO,  :D THATS NOT A JAB AT DOGOS  ;D

In all seriousness, get after it! You may strike gold.

Dogos have become stagnant in my opinion... I aim to breath life back into them...  ;) ;D

Im just playing. I know you know that but I dont want the rest of the unicorn community to get up in arms. I'd bet you would a fine job. They are essentially a successful experimental breed to begin with. I'd bet the original "dogo hombres" hang their heads in shame at what has become of their lifes work.

I saw a litter of "budro" pits on Craigslist today that made me simply "lol"

Good luck,when you get them the way you want em, send a few your favorite Texans. And me too. ;)

No doubt brother... It is a strange thing, those that love the Dogo so much and want to preserve it... for the most part it seems, have no idea what it is they are trying to preserve... because of their efforts, however, there remains a shell of an animal created by those after something better... enough of a shell, I hope, to improve upon again

noah,

i didnt feel like reading all of the post but in response to the topic, i say breed that dogo to one of your curs. the hardest cur you got. and i think you would have to keep the entire litter, you might only get a few pups that make it, which i think would be worth it, and as far as creating the "line" if you keep all your pups on all your breedings and cull hard, you will set the traits you want, but i imagine your cull rate will vary with every litter. it would be worth it even if you only get two pups out of the first breeding and culled the rest.

do you want to breed the dogo to your curs, or another line?

I would like one like my old soco dog 3 inches taller, 15 lbs heavier, with an off switch, and not all white, maybe black or brindle with a white rear end so I could see his but stickin out of the brush pile when he's caught on a hog.

Hopefully duece will turn out like that, the off switch ain't lookin promising though.

I've tried a bunch of different types of catch dogs trying to get the type of catch dog I need for the way i hunt even tried breeding the catch dog I need(so you know i don't leed a catch dog to a bay only leed a catch dog when walk hunting when I get a solid bay I send the catch dog whether it be 5ft or 500 yards ) i look for a dog that can run however far it needs to catch the hog control it till i get there and be ready for another now I've used straight pits most were to small for my liking and whine to much pit crosses pit/cur pit/cat and so on problem with the cross was inconsistent and yes i did have some good cRoss catch dogs but to reproduce that dog was a crap shoot had a dam good 1/2 ab 1/2 catahoula crossed him with a full ab bitch she had 8 pups 6were ok catch dogs the other to wouldn't catch at all they bayed

Dam hit post before i was done
I've also tried the pit/cur pit/cat problem there was if i got size and power i lost stamina and brains or vise versa tried dogo not saying there not out there but i couldn't find one that would catch and try to tear the hog apart or didn't catch at all after trying all kinds of catch dogs I kept going back to a well bred performance ab not a Johnson type or hybrid now that's just my experience with catch dogs and there alot easier to reproduce

Noah, my APBTs are basically what your describing just a little smaller. The red one in the back of the truck had brains like you wouldn't believe and a bite to go along with it. He could be pulled off and told to stay and he would sit there as long as you wanted him to. You could walk off and unless you called him, he would stay there.

A long, leggy, block headed 75-80lb curdog that catches and comes off on command is hard to beat ;)

I couldn't list all of the specifics so here is a pic of my ideal catch dog

 (http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/djhogdogging/imagesCAVIU7J8.jpg)

Lol Dj is he gonna catch hogs or just eat them ?

Ain't nothin' better

 perfect  catch  dog for me is my 41 magmun and my back up catchdog is my  30-30 win   

  :D  Well I figure that either way its a ..... caught hog.  ;D

dang sign me up for a pup out of the next breeding....

First we will have to find a female who will survive a round with Snookums.  ;D

I like a dog to weigh no less then 80 an no bigger then 100, I want a dog with some leg under them that has plent of speed an lungs an some brains, to me their is a difference between being a coward an picking your shot atleast for a rcd/finder holder anyways i belive. That's why i like a cross not a strait pit or bulldog. For example if my dogs get out along way an get cought in a tank an it takes me awhile to get their I want them to be smart enough to let go an not drown which I've seen happen with a strait pit being hunted like this. I also want a dog I can trust around people, kids an other dogs an not have to use a break stick to get off I find it much easier when hunting by myself that once I flip a pig to tie I only have to tap him on the head an say enough an have him leave it alone while I tie it.

Middleton, which one couldn't be trusted with people, kids, and other dogs? Using a break stick isn't the only way to get a full APBT to let go.

I just meant I want my catch dogs an all my dogs for that mater to be good with people, kids an other dogs not singling out any breed sorry if it came off like that.
I like this dog alot he's a 85lb pit/Dane
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff414/hughduncan/6c3ae9ff.jpg)

I've always known I could breed my curs to a catch dog and get better catch dogs... size is the issue however, as I've seen in horses... a draft horse crossed with a smaller horse always seems to produce larger progeny when the larger animal is the female... What I'm after is a larger version of what I already have, my Shiner dog would be the one I would breed, no doubt... but, I will wait for now... find a suitable "big female", that, once proven satisfactorily, I'll cross on a male from my stuff or something similar...

(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j443/adamp32/SU1BRzAzMjkuanBn.jpg)

10lbs of pure attitude. "Richard"  is half rednose 1/4plot 1/4bmc should come out  weighing. 60lbs give or take

I like big catch dog but small catch dogs are fast an is a archer on a pig no matter what size they are I make a straight catch jagd it never let's go an it keeps the hog from break fair!

ok guys. we have had lots of diff. types of cds. all types of build. i agree they have to have brains, But all the other doesnt matter if they aint doing their jobs.

So the best catch dog is a dog that is there holding while we are doing the tyin' !

good rank curs is all you need ,been doin this for over twenty five years and have only owned a few bulldogs if you have the right curs you dont need them .

I agree  ;)

x2

a dog that catchs and wont let go thats about it i dont care if its pink and three legged if it will hit the others will to and its over

Noah,

I am, by no means, a pro... nor have I had experiance with a ton of CDs. But I do know a good dog when I see one. Blakebh's Jane is one of the best that I've personally seen. IMO, I just think that she is a little small for my liking. Yes she has the wind and drive, but I like more size. My Baus is probably the smartest APBT that I have ever seen. I have a great handle on him, and he took to catching like he had been dreaming about it his whole life or something. After a few times out he started getting into hunting shape, getting his wind, and catching on to what his job was when we are out in the woods. He is not agressive towards humans or dogs at all. I let my 2 year old daughter play with him. When he gets in the woods he is a machine though. Good size about 80lbs and built like a tank, pretty fast but not the fastest, and hits hard as a mack truck. He has jaws o steel, and locks on as well. Plus his drive to be out in the woods hunting is very strong, and he pays attention to what the other dogs are doing. He knows when it is time to load up, and gets excited as all get out!  ;D So I like him as an achor, and him AND Jane together make for a good mean team. I'll let blakebh post pics of her, but here is Baus.

(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/blakebh247/IMG_0608.jpg)

nice looking dog ryan.

(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww246/Yellar/Photo05051544_21.jpg) This dog was gave to me as a 5 week old pup and has turned out to be a Awesome catch dog = super handle , absolutely no fight aggression . I can run him loose he won't bother my horses, are hogs in the pen ! He's plenty quick ,catches like a Croc, gotta have a breakstick are choke him off ! The guy I got him from owned the sire  and said  he was  a Carver dog ?

(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa455/jrangnow/0be07585.jpg)

(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa455/jrangnow/b9257e27.jpg)

(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa455/jrangnow/f81c5dcd.jpg)

(http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa455/jrangnow/2743ae5e.jpg)

Couple of my best and and good ones

well I struck out with my last 2 apbt's and they were as good looking as could be found...both about 80 pounds and they were basiclly culls...but I used to run gritty mtn curs that didn't need a catch dog...

For me...I would like to keep 2 dogs in my back yard with 1/4 to 1/8 nigerino and the rest mtn cur...and built more like a hard bodied and leggy mtn cur about 23 or 24 inches at the shoulder...the appearance more like that of an old time mtn cur but with a hint of bulldog in the jaw...I want to see speed, agility, heart, and plenty of natural muscle and power...yet have that refined look. chest not wide, but the loin and the hindquaters are built solid and muscular... but these are strike dogs first and  stop dogs second...no need for straight catch dogs...

This is all you need. 1/2 cur 1/2 bulldog. Wind, trail & catch his own hogs. I hunt him solo a lot.  ;)

I guess a picture would help. lol
(http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv292/Rickards_photos/001-30.jpg)

this young dog is 1/2 redbone, 1/4 apbt, and 1/4 amer. bulldog...he is hunting pretty good and runs a track silent...bays but can get rough...

(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/cuell27393/DSCN7757.jpg)

I like a fast 50lb red nose APBT with a good handle. This is my Rocky dog he is 53lbs soaking wet. I bred him last year to a bigger APBT gyp (65lbs) that my friend owns to add a little more size. This is my top pick Bear all the pups are catching pigs and shoats at 4mo old. I have seen some gritty curs and ppl use 3-4 dogs to catch 1 hog that's not my preference. It seems you get more cut up dogs that way. I have also seen some really good 1/2 Cur 1/2 Bulldog with great handle and all the brains you could ask for but in a bad spot with a rank hog they would "Cur Out" I think that's a chance u stand when crossing them. Find a nice Dogo female to cross your male too. From my understanding everything u just described could be found in a good Dogo. JMO

(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n495/baynslay/26d865dc.jpg)

(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n495/baynslay/34927c80.jpg)

my catch dog has to have heart for doing what he does but the most important thing he gets along great with the family hes a big ol baby in the yard but as soon as his gear goes on him he knows what to do he hits hard hes very accurate and dont hardly get cut up mine is 27 inches tall huge head on him and a wide chest and shout as an ox

x2

i want my cd to crave it