EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

The Dog Trade is filled with people that are looking to buy good strike dogs...

You guys that say you can TRAIN any dog to be a hog dog should be making a killing right now!!! 

  ;D  ;D  ;D

 i wish i had a bunch of young dogs to get rid of right now . i would be rich guess i need to go to the pound and pick a few dogs to train . or i could go get all these free dogs off the trade and train em and sell em . or get a couple of number 2zus and train em to run a line and bay . whats up YOU younguns  can't train a dog . so now lets get this party started. we ain't had a good training verses genetics discussion in a long  >:D  >:D :angel:

ya alot of the hunters now days dont even feed there own dogs much less train them . they have hired hands take care of the dogs and the only time they see the dogs they are already loaded in the truck ready to go and they wonder why the dog wont work for them lol .it takes both genetics and training to make a real dog and a little bit of friendship between a man and the dogs he hunts JMO..............

X2 mans best friend they aim to please

x3

The funny thing is if you will just get most dogs into good phisical shape they will hunt. I have found a secret about how to get those dogs that just wont get out and hunt. If you need your dog to work better than he does today send him to me.

http://www.ushogoutfitters.com/hog-dog-training.htm

Ha ha ha... I'm still waiting on someone to explain how they train the "hunt" into a dog. ;D

"Train" that dog to go a 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, 1 mile or more looking for a hog.

"Train" that dog to put it's nose down and cold trail that hog on a track that 5 other dogs just passed up.

"Train" that dog to stick with a runner for hours on end... mile after mile after mile.

well i hood hunt and you have to train the dogs you work with   to hunt the way you want . i wish i could through some young dogs in the truck that would just get up on the hood and strike hog with out haveing to be trained to do it but its not gonna happen . ALL HUNTING DOGS TAKE SOME TRAINING

You will be as old as BoarNinja before someone even tries to answer that!!!  >:D  :laugh:




"This training session starts your dog in bay pen for a one week trial to determine if the dog is capable of progress. (If by chance your dog doesn't show any interest in hunting by the end of the first week you will be refunded the remaining 3 weeks fees and your dog will be returned to you.)"

Mr. Joe,
This is a quote from your training session...

If i am taking this wrong, than please correct me... But it sounds like " I will start your dog, but if he doesnt have the WANT TO, then there is no need in completing the training... "

Will your secrect not help this type of dog??

IMO, You may be training the dog to get on the hood, but your not training him to HUNT... He does that on his own...  ;)

Even worse is selling a good started dog and he sits at the end of a chain for 2or 3 months before he gets hunted or only gets hunted once every other month and now you are a crappy peddler or he now becomes a chitty dog.

lol well if thats what you want to believe then thats fine with me  but i know how much time i spend getting my dogs to get them the way i want them if you didnt train your dogs they would be some  trashy sobs in the woods.YOU CANT MAKE A DOG HUNT BUT YOU HAVE TO TRAIN THE DOG  its not all the dog

That's exactly what I'm trying to say!!! Trash break them, put a handle on them, etc...

But, if they don't have the hunt, drive or "want to" in them... there's nothing you can do to "train" it into them.

i agree some dogs just dont have what it takes not all dogs will make hogdogs some are just duds from jump street

That's the point I'm trying to make... some folks think you can train any old dog to be a hog dog. ;D

And if they could, they would be rich right now!!  :D

So how do you go about training a dog who has lost it's confidence? Just curious. Started out on too big of a pig.

You can only get a knife as sharp as the quality of the blade material will allow. I don't care how good you are at sharpening one.

Working/hunting dogs and horses are the same in that regard. If they have right material to work with then you can sharpen them to a razors edge.


A good dog trainer can bring out the best in a dog but if the best in a dog is still "crap" then why bother? A good trainer will even tell you that!

Good post T.W.  ;D

So what if the dog can't or we'll say hasn't found a hog, but will honor and bay up, and get down right gritty when the CD gets there? Do you all think that it is waisting time to keep bringing them if they don't strike the trail? and/or how long do you wait for em to "turn on"?

The only answer I can come up for that is " However long you are willing to feed them "    ;)  ;D

Or you could always send them to a TRAINER, then you only have to wait a month or two....   :-X 
Im sorry, Im sorry!!! Just cant help my self sometimes...   >:D

i tend to think along the same lines as u. well said

good analogy

I *LIKE* as well.... you are wise young ninja

You don't live as long as methuselah over there without picking up a bit of wisdom! >:D

Is that kinda like he didnt get that big being dumb? ;D

Listen to the BoarNinja.

I believe it boils down to prey drive and how they are handled, but if they lack the prey drive no amount of handle in tthe world will bring it out of them....garbage in / garbage out is what my boss tells me.

I do, however, believe that there are some people in this world that can bring an animal (whether it be horse or dog) out of its shell and tap into 'hidden abilities' that others cannot touch....but then there are always those that nothing can help and mother nature would naturally cull had the animal been in the 'wild' and dependant upon its self.

Dog Trainer

Phone Number -  BR-549

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In case some of you youngens dont know that was the number to the old show

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE   HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW !

GIVE'EM A CALL PROFESSIONALS !

Listen to the BoarNinja. He is right on... :)

If I am raising a litter of pups I will keep the 4 or 5 I like best and slowly cull down to about 2 pups at 10 months old or so. Pups have to show me something at all stages...Its a line of progression and at 1 year the pup must be hunting and running a track and he might be a keeper but not one that qualifies as a breeder. at 1.5 years he should be a pretty good hog dog and some should be able to hang with a seasoned hog dog...when first starting a breeding program it is possible to cull the whole bunch...

another thing to remember is that not all breeds or strains of dogs within a breed for that matter mature at the same rate. So that has to be taken into consideration when talking breeding or culling...When I talk about breeding and culling I always use my past experience with the mtn curs I raised and hunted.

but to answer your questions I will say that you are talking about a pretty good "ME TOO DOG". Some dogs never progress past what you have described. But sometimes these dog fit in well in a pack because they may strengthen the pack by being able to stop the hog an helping the catch dog in catching a big boar...My goal would be to have every dog be a lead strike dog that can do it all except catch like a solid catch dog and a good me too dog would eventually get replaced...having said that a good me too dog is a valuable dog in most hog dog packs...

right now I don't have what I consider a good strike dog and I have the kennel space so I would own a good me too dog but like I said earlier...He will eventually get replaced as I aquire better dogs...

 

Just wondering, are you saying that somebody could not go thru about 5 large dog pounds and get about 10 or 15 tryees and build a hog dog pack and strike or bay and catch hogs???

I have never seen anybody here or anywhere claim they can train ANY dog to be a hog dog either???  Not all dogs make strike dogs either in the scene they are in either, lots of guys lose the start dog and wont move somebody up to take up the striking position, they let the main start dog do all of the starting and never switched the batting order so to speak so other dogs had chances to start strikinglol

Or are you saying nobody could go thru the lower end of the dog trade classifieds and buy or get free dogs and get a pack going out of cast offs or need to get rid of's?

I have known lots of guys who did exacty this, any dog that looked like it might run a hog or somebody claimed it would get loaded up and taken to a hog pen or sometimes even loaded up in dog box and turned out to see if it would honor a bay or even catch or start running with the pack after a while.

But you seem to imply that every dog for sale  on hereis a cull or untrainable and cant ever  be trained??

The problems vary with dogs in the dog trade, some rotteed on chain, some starved, some just nobody knows, some were shocked out, some where hunted by drunks who left them in the woods, some have been yelled at, some have been beaten, some were just surplus, some were out of room when somebody got divorced, laid off, drought hit etc etc and on and on, some owned by idiots just in general, dont forget the other biggie, the lack of hogs or places to hunt, and then u might actually run into somebody who likes to just get dogs going a bit and sell them for money, aka the dog traderlol  God bless the cliche' dog trainer who can train a dog most of the time but not all of the time and laugh all the way to the banklol  Dont forget to visit your local dog trader regularly, you might get to buy your own dog back that can now strike a hoglol

X2 Couldnt agree more! Also a classic example of the process of natural selection.

I don't even see a need to send them for trash breaking. With the money you're spending why not buy a shock collar? ???

Something an old man told me...he's never led me wrong


T-trash break
R-reinforce good behavior
A-accept the dog for what he is
I-interact with the dog
N-nutrition
E-exercise
R-repeat

It is not that any dog can not be trained it is that most people do not have the time nor the money or the know how to do it.
If a dog has good prey drive everything falls into line over time. if the prey drive lacks you can use several other methods to give it a jump start, but these methods are lengthy and costly and in my opinion unless the dog is your best friend that isnt going anywhere for any reason I would not spend the money it would take to get this dog to hunt. + there is no garentee after all of the time and energy put into the dog that the dog will hunt like you want. he will be much better than when he started but that is not always what we want. It is much cheaper and much less time to start out with a dog that has a good prey drive.

As for ranging out this is a simple proccess that works, but I do warn you be very carefull of what you wish for.
Everyone wants a long range dog or thats what they say until they get one.

A lot of hunters? Really? I agree with what you are saying but I know a lot of hog hunters. I don't know any that use hired hands to feed and train their dogs. Must be nice! Lol

I'd settle for someone just taking care of the dog crap for me!  O0

I agree BoarNinja it is wild. I have several clients that I board their dogs and work with their dogs everyday and they will come and pick up their dogs for a hunt and then the dogs are back here for a week or two or three until their next hunt. It works out for us both.

Must be a new breed of hog hunter in town. I know of some old timers that did it but I doubt they were left wondering about why a dog was not hunting.

Just about every racehorse owner out there has a trainer and a barn hand or two. Wish I had the money for a poop hand! My old one lives out of town now and in his Sophomore year of college.  :D

Seriously? WOW ???

The way I see it is your dog will never live up to your standards if you have someone else doing the dirty work I spend tons of Time with my dogs from pups till what I would call finished and I don't have many that don't turn out

"Finsihed", "started" "good" "turnout" "Alot", "a couple" are only relative terms by which each individual is using them. One persons idea of a finished dog is a dog thats finally finding hogs on its own, (yeah, not mine but I a few days ago talked to a breeder that was calling several young dogs finished so I had to ask) then many from this forum do not consider a dog finished until the dog can no longer reach a state of improvement.

So there fore saying well "EVERYDOG I EVER TRAINED TURNED OUT" I guess I could make that claim, they all turned out to eat out of a feed bowl and crap out a pile a crap and most would bark at a hog, (even the chi-weenies) so does that make me a good dog trainer?

WHY YES I THINK I AM A REALLY GOOD DOG TRAINER!!! JUST ASK THE DOGS!!! lol. 8)


I will tell you I can train a dog to consistently go 50-60 yards away, (this is WORST CASE SCENARIO DOG) its called obedience and conditioning, I can teach a dog to track and trail and do alot of conditioned responses

BUT-
I  WONT, because IF I have to TRAIN A DOG TO DO THIS IT HAS NO BUSINESS BEING IN THE WOODS. I should NOT have to TEACH what come NATURAL to so many others. I have been a trainer for along time and cant stand it I rather work off of physcology and behaviors, what comes natural to a dog being a dog. If it dont have it fine, I am not going to make you.

YOU ARE RUINING OUR HUNTING IF YOU TELL PEOPLE YOU TEACH A DOG TO GO AGAINST ITS WILL. I TELL NUTS AND FRUITCakes all time I can train adog to do about anything but I can teach them to want to be a hunting dog, and want to run with a pack. EVERY Time a PETA FREAK says WE MAKE OUR DOGS TEAR APART WILD HOGS and FIGHT THOSE POOR INNOCENT HOGS, you are feeding them more fuel to help them believe their own made-up LIES.

I won't let anyone touch my dogs! There is no better feelin wen you hear your dog that you hav spent more time with open up and bay a hog I don't care who you are if you hav put a lot of time in the dog it's a Wayyyy better satisfaction than for someone to do it for you

You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink same way with a dog you can lead a dog to the woods but that don't mean he will hunt

amen to that...

Just to ask does any body know how to turn the hunting switch off on dogs that just won't come back would rather have there heads down and trailing its maybe good thing they have the drive. After being late for work again with no sleep I'm to the point to see if any body knows a good woods pen with no way out just to try too get a handle on them I walk them every day on a 25' rope but they only come to a bone! Lol 

My opinion is totally situational, as only you know why the situation was. I'm not talking about a dog being bayed and called off, I'm trying to answer your question about any dog knowingly disobeying you and purposefully trying to get away from you to keep doing what it wants.

I would give it a few oppurtunities to listen, eventually I would catch that sob and wear its ever loving azz plum t-total out with a tallow switch for having to be captured and the next time it got turned loose it would be wearing a shiny new tritronics. And when I call if it don't come, (don't shock it when you can't see it) I would track to it and tell it to come to me and the next step in the wrong direction would be met with an appropriate level of correction.

If the dog shows no ability or desire to have handle, then as hard as it is to do, I would get out the shovel. I firmly believe a dog that won't handle ain't worth having and is certainly never worth breeding.

So before I go to fair they are pups but there drive is a good hyperness but unless I have a treat they will come u think shocking them will help our scare them not to come?

I would have the dog in a controlled environment...then I would call him to me and light him up a time or 2 and when he came up I would praise him for coming...once he comes when called I would take him out and let him range...make sure he is in range and call him in...never give the command if you think you can't back it up...don't let your emotions get the best of you...just be calm and cool when training...the dog will trust you and will learn quite a bit faster...

Thanks I,ll give it a try i guess its time will tell but sounds like it will work,

Like I said friend, situational, I didn't know they were pups, but, I personally don't care what age they are. Any dog getting turned loose should have basic handle. Come here is as basic as it gets.

Shocking them can ruin them if a person doesn't use the training method appropriately. Notice that I said at the next step in the wrong direction should be met with appropriate correction. This means you say come, they step towards you, you praise, they turn their head and twitch their shoulder to bolt and you buzz them at a tolerable but firm level for a moment. They will inevitably make a move as a reaction to the pain. If this move is to you, they have chosen correctly and will receive praise when you get hands on them. If the move is away from you they need to receive another bump until they step your direction. I believe a shock collar should be the same as an invisible leash. When they take appropriate actions, they have slack, when they disobey, they get a tug.

Also one should do all they can to not let the dog assosiate the handler with the pain so much as thinking its their own actions that are causing discomfort.

Thats one of the best things ive read.

I need to explain controlled environment...for me it is in a place where I know I have control over the dog...if you shock the dog where he can run out of range then you just trained the dog to run out of range and he can hunt to his hearts content...once the dog has it down in a controlled setting then move the training elsewhere.

keeping calm and cool when training will teach the dog that you are trustworthy and reliable and nothing bad will happen to him when he is around you...so when unpleasant things happen to him coming to you will make it better...

 all of this is good advice . remember there are many settings on the shockers when starting out you need to establish EACH dogs setting. don't just go out there and holler here and try to fry them if they don't come . and above all handle on a dog works alot better when they like you in the first place .

X100.....and  BIG amen to that. Although I have done it in the past, the waaaaay back past.....I now see no need to whip a dog for disobeying you. That's what we have the shock collar for,....I don't want my dog to think I had anything whatsoever to do with it's punishment for doing the wrong thing....if you catch that dog and give it a thrashing....seems to me that the main thing it's going to get from that is to stay away from you....which is exactly what I don't want the dog to think. Just my opinion......but it's worked dang well on mine so far.

when you call the dog to whip him, all the dog is getting out of it is that when you call it will get whipped...then the dog learns he can out run you so now you have re-reinforced the idea for the dog to run from you...just the opposite of what was trying to be accomplished... ;D

Exactly...... :)