EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I recently got beefy my big pit pup and have been wrkin with him alot, hes very smart already follows most my commands, when i say load up he will try to crawl inside truck with me (in cab). I know this may b a dumb ? but i was just curious if i can train him to b a home protection dog mayb even special classes n still use him as a cd? I really like to get in close with a bulldog n make best friends, the last one i had i let everyone pet him n friends ended up robbin my house simply cause they knew him, this pup only two buddies and my close family can pet.

Any comments will help

        Thx, Dustin

Friends don't rob your house.... >:(  

Yes it could be done but teaching bullbreeds to bite humans is a big responsibillity and to do it RIGHT you would have to train more than hog hunt.

Get a guard type dog and let your catch dog be a catch dog.

I get what ur saying

Cool cause I wasn't tryin to bust your balz or nothing but it is what it is...I trained PP/sport dogs for a good while years back and still deal with many who do and to really do justice to you and the dog it takes alot of time and comitment. Bullbreeds bring bite work to a whole new level as well and level of responsibility.

Look at the focus in this dog when he is heeling...the bites on the bite wedge are just a reward for his obedience. Thid dog is a littermate to my Shiner dog RIP and a half bro to my Goblin pup....wish he was here catching hogs haha..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioJpQLBNnto

I have to agree, bite work training would leave little time to hunt.

Having a good handle on a bulldog usually starts when you take it off momma, discipline, structure, and bonding with the family. I had red nose gyp before I got into hog hunting that look to me for permission before responding to my terriers on a coon or what ever it was they found. It really pretty nice to walk through the woods with a bulldog next to you with no lead and have them actually look up at you for your blessing, then be able to call them out by name. Wish I had one like her now lol.

I worked guard dogs and most of it is natural. Dogs are teritorial by nature. For home protection you do not need to train them. You train guard dogs you take to other places. Once trained to be a guard you have a liability on your hands. Most training is so they control a person and hold them. My dogs I let protect my house now have had zero guard dog training they are catch dogs.

i guess i shouldve put it better obience trainin like a few classes not the full blown cop course type stuff n yes he is very protective anyone walks up to the house or kid he bows up no aggresive just more like hey what the hell u doin. 


Also i know itll b nice to walk side by side with my bulldog no leash at all because ive been the cd leader with some pullers n it suck, i just didnt know if i could make him so obiedent n no animal aggresion that he wouldnt catch a hog

Obediance does not affect aggressiveness just can you stop your dog. I don't like any dog to pull on a lead. As far as walking beside you without a lead that would be almost a RCD. But you can teach your dog manners and not mess them up. I would only do basic obedience.

Obedience is always a plus with catch dogs...I am very guilty of not putting enough in mine myself and just let it come by time in the woods but it does come with some pains for me and dog both.

I don't see were Ob would hinder the dog from catching a hog...

Dub, I tottaly dis agree with most of your post....Most dogs WONT actually bite and HOLD a human,some will fear bite and run but to bite and stay for the fight...not many will these days nor are too many folks geared for owning a dog who will. The thing I hated most about training protection dogs for a living was Joe n Nancy Blow would bring thier dog of any common protection type breed to me/us and want it trained to stop someone like me from entering thier home and doing them harm....I had a moral problem with that in that I knew most of the dogs brought to us would piss thier self if pushed and the genetics just were not there. Maybe after a couple years the dog could be built up enough to do 1/2 enough of what was needed but these folks wanted a quick fix and turn around so wwe had to turn the dogs to fear bites who LOOKED like they would do some thing,get them to half azz hold a sleeve and send them down the road....when I trained for myself I lost alot of buissnes because I turned folks away as I knew I did not want the dog they brought me protecting me or mine so why would I train it for someone else? A good ole dog who will raise hell and leave em guessing is all it really takes to deter trouble any how.

Underdog I am saying that a dog that holds a person is trained to do it. I agree with you completely. I guess I did not word things right because I thought we said the same thing. But I think some people think a guard dog is an attack dog. An attack dog is a problem a guard will keep people back or stop them not just attack. I had some guys I worked with and we never trained anybody else's dogs for the same reason you said. People have a dog they think can be trained but it is not worth the time of day. I used to put dogs in warehouses to keep druggies out. But alarms got better and with a lower liability we were out of business.

For home get a decent size dog with a loud bark. Then the bad guy will go next door. Get a yip yap dog and a gun even. But you do not want an attack dog.

Thats the problem sometime comunicating via computer.....I'm with ya now exept I still like one or three around that will lay teeth  ;)

I don't THINK you can have to good a handle. I have that issue with my bulldog. He is a year and a half and i Just started him on hogs. He has had one trip to the pen. He caught soft, by that I mean he let go of the hog when I stepped up behind him and just touched him. He was afraid he was in trouble. He did that every time. Next time in the pen I'm gonna let him catch and hold for a few minutes while I praise him from a distance. I think that will solve my issue. We'll see!

I agree with a lot said.  This is my catch dog Crown working with Bob who posts on here.  He has some great philosophies about guard work and training that brings in the dogs hunting instincts.  I wanted to do PSA with Crown but moved right in the middle of starting him.  There is a ton of responsibility with bitework and a level headed dog.  I think the dog you use is just as important as you.  He will get nasty on a man if it ever becomes necessary and will sure catch the hell out of a hog.  Real level headed dog and stable as can be or I would have never done manwork with him.   Catching is and will always be number one. 

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l33/INABs/Hunt8.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l33/INABs/065.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l33/INABs/064.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l33/INABs/062.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l33/INABs/059.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l33/INABs/057.jpg)

BTW Bryant, Hasta looks super nice in that vid.  I can't wait to see him in person in Sep. at Heather's show. 

What are your reasons for saying this?

Common sense and personal experience.

Could you expand on the common sense aspect of it?

there is very little of it now days. common sence is in a book or school, not real life. it is fought in the court rooms not in the home owners house or yard. a person shows up to do wrong, you or your dog attacks/kills the person, now your on trial for defending your own possecions bc some1 else is to chitty and lazy to get his/her own belongings.

I agree with you, Im curious though why exclude bull breeds from schutzund training.  Why does using bull breeds "take it to a whole new level?""

government ran media. the bull breeds already have a bad rap, plus some think they are all bronze, not brains.

Underdog I am with you on laying teeth I also prefer less bark and more bite. I keep them behind locked gates and locked doors only a criminal will get bit.

No i dnt want an attack dog, n ur right apperance is everything i let my dane out on a chain in front yard to eat n she scared off all the football runners n reg joggers lol cause there all scared of her hell one day she broke her chain ona jogger boy was it funny they were scared chitless but all she did was slobber on him

and i understand theres bad pits out there but all dogs can bite a human pitbull etc just a nastier bite, im just trying to help the pitbull name for there my favorite breed noone will ever tell me i cant have one banned or not there will b a fight

I have nothing against a pit like most people on here. Just don't expect everyone to feel the same. Just understand why they feel the way they do. Some people have had a bad experience and nothing you do will change their mind. Others have heard inflated stories and just believe them. You can talk all you want but if they see enough they may come around. But you also have to see them for what they are and be honest. Understand that they can do damage and some people will not like them just because of that. There are people that hate guns and a gun does nothing by itself. I stopped caring if anybody agrees with me many years ago. Now I just want people to let me be. I don't care if they agree or not. So don't worry about what people think and do your thing. As long as you aren't hurting other people you should be left alone in my book.

I would recommend using a different dog to protect your house. There are many things that go into training a dog for protection that would make them dangerous at a catch.
Dogs that are good at protection work love doing it and in training you teach them a certain body part is just a blast to bite and hold on to. A lot of protection guys like to train for the forearm now imagine next time you break your dog off an ear and they are in that seeing red phase when he just looses the grip on the ear and his other favorite thing in the world to bite (your buddies arm) just happens to be within reach. Or your wife’s or your buddies kid or you. Just think of everyone walking around with a pig ear on their forearm.

Second if you truly plan on training a good protection dog you cannot not possibly do so without back tie work. This is simply working a dog tied to a post or chained to an anchor. Give a dog two or three times on the back tie and he will start doing flips trying to grab anyone but daddy that comes within reach... and they dont even have to be mad. Kind of like them dogs down the road that bark like crazy because people teased them so much… well back tie work is that but on purpose… and unlike the dogs down the street they know what to do the second a body part comes across the line. This will make tying the CD to a tree very dangerous for anyone you chose to hunt with and could even make taking them off the rig a complication when everyone gets excited. Not to mention your buddy jumping up and down waving his arms hollering to send the CD… this can look a lot like what decoys will do to agitate a green protection dog.

To break it down you are making it so that your CD sees people the same way he sees pigs. In my personal opinion people pour countless hours/ years into training a true man stopper. If you want a weekend sport dog that can do a little sleeve bite work once or twice a month you should be fine but don’t expect it to bite anyone without a sleeve on. Or you just want a dog that will bark at strangers near the house you should be fine but don’t expect it to stick with a guy who will to call his bluff. But it you want a real man stopper that you can point at someone and know they are going to get bit and where keep it separate.

Lastly and anyone who has picked up a bite sleeve will agree with me on this. Most dogs cant even bite a sleeve and only a small percent of them will truly bite a human and stay with it. My little dust buster vacuum has broken many hearts and shattered egos.

(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx36/creynolds84/Videos/th_Courageattack.jpg) (http://s739.photobucket.com/albums/xx36/creynolds84/Videos/?action=view&current=Courageattack.mp4)

Tarheel K9 Police K9 Instructors Graduate
PSA Decoy (Nationally Selected)
Trained patrol dogs in Army
Advisor for multiple police/ sheriff depts 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

there is a difference between sport dogs, fear biters, spastic genetic freaks and REAL,STABLE dogs.

First off a dog that cant decifer the difference between a pig and a person and check himself is not welcome in my presence ever! and I reccomend no one ever breed a dog of this caliber for any reason, but I know there are people doing in the name of sport.

I can't speak for Charles.... but for me, I never said to exclude them (bullbreeds) from sprot work and if I ever do it again my dog of choice will be a bullbreed no doubt. As far as another level...that could go pages deep that I don't really feel like going into....short list tho, they think alittle differnt than your traditional furries,they train different and it takes a different trainer to train one "good" and obviously liabillity....if your GSD bites anyone...it won't likely make the news....bullbreed bites someone justified however so minor it becomes "Pitbull attack" in the media.... (no matter how well trained and on the flip the training could back fire on you as well in a bite situation with a bullbreed)

X2,000

i agree with you 100%

if a dog likes laying some teeth on a hog and he is tied back or on the other side of the fence from the hog...and he is in a  slobber mouthed barking frenzy...I make sure that dog is out of my reach...I had my best and favorite cur dog that was very trustworthy latch on to my leg...I did give him a severe head ache...

excellent clarification.  thank you

Nope not kidding… It would be like having a 40 cal that seconds as a squirt gun.
And when a hog is caught and the dual purposed human/ hog catch dog is pulled off and daddy and buddy go grappling with a hog again to get it tied the lines can be very blurry. For example my personal dog is very safe with friends and family (never even snatched at grandpa when he wheeled over his tail) but if a buddy were to tackle me just ruff housing he would most defiantly get bit because the dog knows his job. That’s not being crazy that’s taking his job and purpose in life seriously. 

Kids and family members are bit every day by their own untrained dogs that were up until that moment considered level headed dogs. Hog doggers are bit on accident from time to time for putting their hands in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Why add a trained attack dog to the mix? It’s just not responsible.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

that dont look like common sence to me  ??? ??? lol

You said attack dog. Attack dog vs. guard dog. They are not the same.

Here's my two cents. Pits make poor protection dogs due to centuries of culling man biters. A dog who would bite a human in the box was not tolerated. With that said, pits do great with protection SPORTS because of their desire to work and please their owner.  I do Schutzhund work with both of my pits, but they are not good guard dogs.

Why would you want to force a dog to do something that he's not designed to do?  Especially when you could select a breed that was designed to do protection work (shepherd, malinouis, Rottweiler, Doberman, etc..).

Plus, we r only one accident away from Breed Specific legislation and that would effect us all!  If your only in it for sport then go ahead, but if you feel the need for a serious protection dog I'd suggest another breed. JMHO.

Well put Big T.

SwineHunter,  .... well.... don't know what to tell ya. 

Really? Ok... I fold. Have fun partner.

Cool pics INAB, looks like a solid bulldog. Ive got some dogos and an AB that are good cds and house pets. Im pretty sure they would take a man down that was physically threatening my family, not sure about a savvy robber though.

UNDERSOG I agree with you mostly, seems like using breeds for what they have been bred for thousnads of years for will be generally easier a higher % of the time. That said I think allot of AB's and Dogos can go both ways fairly naturally, Ive never had the money to train one in actual bite work, just talking about pets I use as cds.

I have never had a protective pit though.... always loved everyone.

Come to think of it, forget bulldogs, every BMC on my yard hates strangers at the house! They are like a herding German Shepard, but not in the woods...they are a smart breed and defiantly know who strangers are.

I have jidt let to mmany make friendds

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Here's a good article.

http://www.chimerakennels.com/thecompanionguardian.htm (http://www.chimerakennels.com/thecompanionguardian.htm)

My advice is to choose your friends more wisely.
As far as the bulldog, I wouldn't try to teach him to bite a human for reasons already mentioned. But most dogs are naturally protective of your house and will bark if a stranger walks up and that's all you need most of the time..
Most curdogs are more protective over your house and work better as a "guard" dog than a bulldog does. Most True bulldogs (pits) that are bred right and culled right won't do nothin but wag their tail when a stranger walks up. Anything else is a big liability.

100% agree with you ChainRated

Thanks guys n I agree

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