EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"  Ronald Reagan....

... for some reason, I feel as though even typing this I may be put on some national "watch list" lol... hope I don't get any slack tryin' to board a plane next time  rolleyes ;D

... just a question for yall to chew on... what extremes would you be willing to go to should someone invade your country and tell you how to live your life?

... For the sake of this argument, let's say the Chinese invaded the USA... came in and said, "look, no more Christianity.... everthing you own now belongs to us.... and began hunting down and wiping out anyone who dared to defy them...

... I, for one, would be willing to go to a level unimaginable by modern standards to defend my country/deter the invaders... ESPECIALLY given "unfair" odds...

 

If a person could spend some time in "his enemies" shoes and vice versa, there would be much more understanding in this life.

 Any invaders that come down into these East Texas woods and marshes would most likely never be seen again.  ;D

Hahaha, I agree... as long as the proposed invaders come in a-horse-back, sporting muskets  ;D

... just imagine trying to defend yourself in the backwoods from what our country is using against the Afghanis right now...

Satellite surveilance, drones, FLIR, anti-personell armaments capable of pinpoint accuracy at night from MILES away...

How are you gonna fight that other that go to the source and do what you can.

Those people are fighting for a belief that has been instilled in them from birth.  It's what they believe in and it's all they've ever known.  It's a religion older then many, so 10 years isn't anything but a hiccup in the big picture.  They fight to the death and have no fear of dying, I know this personally.

You may not like them, but you'll learn to respect an enemy as dedicated to our death and destruction as they are.  Simply put, if I was in their shoes, I'd do the same.

 noah, them afghanies have been eluding our military for years and taking high casualties while doing so, but they aint been doin to bad for a bunch of halfa$$ moutnain boys. they have had us over there for 10 srtaight yrs. they must be doin somethin right to not be wiped out from the one of the most powerful countries in the world. as far as the hypothetical question, archery is quiet, fire blanket keeps a lot of heat trapped insideif blended in with a ghile suite and them backwoods sure will get a person lost most ricky tick

Excellent point.   For the most part, we are who we are born/raised with...  if you were born in Israel... you'd most likely be a Jew... If you were born in Palestine... you'd most likely by a Muslim...

... the ability to understand where your advesary is coming from(can't think of the dang word right now lol), to "imagine" yourself in their shoes...

Was waitin' on you Charles  ;D   How can a fighting man not respect what the Afghanis have been able to hold up to?  Hard to imagine, regardless of whether they deserve it or not...

... I hear you on the foil blanket, good tip...  ;D

 i do respect them, but i dont like their smell, but their food is good. thats if you can get past the bread, knowing they kneed it with their feet. they been fighting for a cause for 100s of years. what causes or beliefs do we have to have to fight back the terrorists?

 oh and noah, im not gonna get on my high horse about it.  ;D my voice is horse from speakin and not being heard, just thoughts that im crazy

Coming from someone that has never met "the enemy" that is Afghanistan... I am always keen to hear first hand examples from those who have personally dealt with them... no matter their opinion... all information helps illuminate a "dark" area in our war on terror...

 they fight a gurilla type battle, same battle we fought during the 60s-70s in se asia. a gurilla war is hard to beat, there are no determined lines of defense, just foward advance and rearward fall back. its a yo-yo effect. our war on terror starts and ends with terror on both sides. those that fight for a cause and determination will always come out on top in some form or fashion. i admire their passion for war for their beliefs.

Empathy... that's the word...  ;D

"Empathy is the capacity to recognize and, to some extent, share feelings (such as sadness or happiness) that are being experienced by another sentient or semi-sentient being. Someone may need to have a certain amount of empathy before they are able to feel compassion...."

China population; 1,300,000,000
USA population; 250,000,000

China will be the country that rules the world some day...but in my opinion, the only way to prevent China from ruling over us is for us to have the technology so great that they will respect us regardless of our size and population...

An Albert Einstein quote "don't know what technology will be used in the next world war...but the following world war will be fought with sticks and stones..."

I believe that the environment will change enough one day to the point that there will be great famines in different parts of the world...and when these famined countries become desperate...desperate as in hunger and hopelessness...then it will become worthwhile for them to go to war even against the greatest of nations...

I agree Rueben we (the world) are addicted to oil and gas when some ones supply is exhausted the have nots will have no choice but try and take what is left from the haves. But necessity is the mother of all invention so someone might invent cold fusion before it gets to bad.

We have the technology,but we need someone who will use it. NATO is a crock. I am sure it will happen at somd point,I doubt in puff lifetime.

the chinise arn"t going to invade u noah they have a new fangled western approach called capitalisim they are going to buy u out . ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

you are correct. they already own a 1/4 of our country in IOU bonds.

I enjoyed this post.  Excellent read and depth of thoughts.  Thank you all.

Noah, I WILL do anything in my power to protect my family and my country!!! PERIOD! That's all I have to say about that...  ;)

There will never be peace with a people who believe you are evil. A majority of the fighters from the middle east are fighting because the feel in there core that there god commands it. I truly believe they are lead by evil myself, if they were to force there religion or way of life on the people of Oklahoma I would behave as they do now and use all tactics at my disposal. I don't like'em, but I do respect'em for there willingness to die for there beliefs . My opinion and I'm entitled to it as anyone else is that the only way to stop them is total eradication of them as a people. That can not be done and it would be wrong to do, but as long as there is muslim vs jew/christain's there will be war. Both religions believe Jerusalem is there and vital for there scriptures to be fulfilled. Just for the record, I dislike the islamic religion , not the people from the middle east aside from that.

Noah, I cannot speak for ASTAN, but fighting the insurgents in IRQ is just like Charles said, it is guerilla warfare.  The enemy is not readily recognizable.  The man you bought a hajji movie from in the market at 1500 may very well take some pot shots at you at 1900.  They don't think the same way we do.  The kids that come looking for candy, or pepsi money are sometimes looking to distract you, or will go tell their uncles and brothers what youre doing.

Charles, I agree with you on the smell.  I don't hate anyone for their skin color, but even the hajjis that live here have that same "ass, feet, goat and curry" smell seeping out of their pores.  I can't go in one of their gas stations even if I wanted to (which I don't) because of the smell.  I have forgotten a lot of things, but I will never forget that smell. 

hey matt, speaking of gas station and smell. 2 friends from kansas and myself were driving down to tx from ft riley and i stoped to get a roll of quarters for the toll road in ok. i ask for $10 dollars in quaters and clerk said i cant give me anyting more than a dollar. i ask him about the the money drop box behind him and he said he didnt know how to use it. 1 of the friends worked at a gas station and i would spend hrs bsin with him up there. i explained how to use it, and then he said he didnt want to give me the quarters. i had about $100 in beer i=on the counter and was fixn to pay for it when he said he didnt feel like it. i told him to put his beer back up and told the other guys to get in the truck, it smelled like the rotten a-hole of bahgdad in the store. it sure did p him off. both iraq and afghan smell the same and the food both taste nearly the same.

I know which store are hajji owned here, but if I'm traveling and accidentally stop at one, I turn around and leave. It's that simple, they will not get my money.

most get rocks through windows around here.

and any man who wants to come over here after me there will be two people missing, me and the fella they send after me

You two ever stop to think that they might actually find "American smell" as offensive as you find theirs?   ... think about it.

you think about where you get to go hog hunting with dog. you dont forget where you cant say JESUS CHRIST IS YOU SAVIOR. AM SORRY for you  IF YOU DONT.

when i start smelling like a have not had a shower for a month and got a sever case of fumunda cheese brewing in my pants, then i think i will smell as bad as they do. its not like their borders are wide open like a flood gate letting us in and them giving us free money to open up baypens and hog farms.
as you said you aint never been over there or had to deal with them. iv spent 2 months in the field when i was in artillery and had a shower once every 7 days and i know what swampa$$ smells like and they have a sever case of swamp going on.

Please explain if you would...

i was thinking the same  ???

I ain't denying that "they"  (as I proceed to group a whole race into one pronoun rolleyes ;D)  smell like a camel's ass with a smoldering stick of incense sticking out of it....  a smell is a smell.... Cultures are different.   Exponentially different cultures are going to have exponentially different smells... don't make either one "right".... just different ;D

 very true noah, every culture has a uniquie smell, but in kasakstan and uzbekastan, just across the border, they too have a different odor, it not irish spring fresh, but a lot more pleasent to the nose than iraqis and afghanies.
their food is good, but again gotta get over them kneading the bread dough with thier feet.

Sh!t, I thought that's how everybody made sour dough... ba-dum-dump...  ??? ;D   (that was horrible, forgive me Lord  ;D)

 ;D ;D
i dont think its called suor dough, but like fugi dough

I think everybody needs to watch this link and realize that we are screwing up. America can only go on for so long the way we are living now. 
What was this great country founded on?

http://youtu.be/TYKAbRK_wKA

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TYKAbRK_wKA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

very true. the american people are to blind or dumb to relize what our government is doing. things cant be change by olny a few, but yet you cant get everybody on board bc they they have been (hypnotized) in speaking by the government in thinking they can do no wrong and they are doing the better good of the people.

if they don,t like the way i smell or my country smell,s they can take their ass home.

The argument of "if you don't like _____, then leave" or "if you don't like _____, then go back to your home" are weak arguments.  Debate is fundamental in this country, unlike many of the countries "we" tend to rail against.  So disagreeing is not a basis to leave.

Noah is right about "smells".  Cultures vary.  Even cultures within our country.  Consider for a  moment the many ethic groups within the U.S. with different "smells".  Heck, think about native indians.

There is some handsoap that is dispensed where my wife works  ...  and she washes her hands with.  Drive me out of a room.  Literally, I leave.  I find it offensive.  Of course, she then gets offended that I express my displeasure  ...  and I end up in a no win situation.  So I guess even within subsets of a culture, where there is no cultural variance  ...  smells can still be offensive.

What we need to focus on is what we have in common.  Are they good people?  Are they trying to provide for the families?  Are they trust worthy? Etc.

very good points of view rl. now can you answer the question you ask of, are they trust worthy? they play for the americans while on military bases over there by day and some play for the enemy by night. some are forced into it bc of threats of their families being killed, but can that reasoning be cooberated truthfully with out a bias opinion from the family members? are they good people? again, goes back to trust. what makes them good people? and your next question is are they trying to provide for their families? are they doing it for the better good of their selves, or are they doing it to gain intel on troop numbers, types of equipment, responce time to a rocket/motor attack for getting ground units mounted and out the gates, to getting attack birds aloft to assist in the recovery of the enemy who launched the attack? there are different variables in all these questions on both side, and i have seen it first hand from a soldiers stand point and now a civilian contractor over there. they are not our friends, but yet not all are our enemy, they and as we do, walk a fine line of trust. just like the saying says. (keep your friends close, but keep your enemy closer) we are doing that, and they too are doing it.
now lets come to america. do you think its fare for americans to be denide government loans for a business, but yet a a completely new immigrant can get a 7yr grant or loan to open up a business, paid by yours and my tax dollars? there are to many bleeding hearts out there that say, well they are of a poor and uneducated culture (not race), when yet there are americans who come from poor and illiterate backgrounds, some choose to be that way, and some are born into it with no hope of getting ahead, because of a viscious cycle of the wealthy keeping the little man down. the poor always getting screwed over by the rich. always have, always will. does money make them better than those that dont have money? only for education, living conditions and just plain living in its own, but as a person, are they better, do they have better values, are they honest hard workers, or just honest thieves with money and power over the poor? 

RL...I like what you said... :)

No, I do not think it is fair.  But all of us have long, long, very long lists of things the government does that we do not think is fair, right, or appropriate.  It is frustrating.

As to the poor comment.   It is simply hell to be poor and probably worse to be born to poor people.  I know.  I was.  My wife still does not understand why I think pinto beans is a complete meal.  The most critical thing that allowed me to escape that cycle of poverty was an education.  

No, I do not think it is fair.  But all of us have long, long, very long lists of things the government does that we do not think is fair, right, or appropriate.  It is frustrating.

As to the poor comment.   It is simply hell to be poor and probably worse to be born to poor people.  I know.  I was.  My wife still does not understand why I think pinto beans is a complete meal.  The most critical thing that allowed me to escape that cycle of poverty was an education.  
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been there done that...might be why I root for the underdog...

 you are right rl as far as an education. can you honestly say that just because a piece of paper say you got an education of higher learning, that that person you or anyone else should be paid more because of a piece of paper vs. a person who has many years of hands on expeirience and then the person with the education gets paid more and is put in charge of those who been doing it many times over the person with the education?
if we as americans see all things that are wrong in the government. why is it only a hand full of people want to try to fix it, but with out financial backings and a heck of a lot more people support cant get it fixed? we ask for donations and support to save our rights as loving pet owners, but yet cant get the support or donations to fix our crooked government. there is more effort put towards animals and keeping our animal rights, than getting the political animals out of our government and getting back on the track to success, instead of the track to failure. its a trajedy that we care more for our animals than we do as a nation of people. with out proper government, no amount of fighting for animal right will achieve any positive goal for our nation as a whole.

It is simple.  Just like the post about dogs and breeding.  How do you get the most reliable info to base your decision?  With dogs, it is pedigree.  With people, it is education.

That does not mean a dog without a pedigree can't hunt or a person without a degree can't perform the job.  It means it is easier for the decision maker to make one when he has something to indicate that it will accomplish their goal.

I taught my children that an education only opens a door.  After your first job, no one asks about grades.  They ask do you have a degree.  They ask "what can you do for me".  An education opens the door but then you have to perform to remain.

Now some professions require more.  I am a CPA.  I could not even attempt to become one without a degree.  It is a minimum requirement.



Simple.  We solve the problems we can influence.  Not the ones we can't.  Think about it.  Do you support slavery?  No.  But slavery occurs throughout the world.  I can't solve it.  You can't solve it.  So we both focus on more local things we can solve.  Like parenting our children.  Leading our communities.  The same goes for the federal government.  We all know that no matter who we elect, it is just more of the same.  We can't change them, so we focus on our local communities.

Charles.  One other point about education.  My son wanted to enter the military right out of HS.  I explained to him that the lowest officer starts at a higher rank than the highest enlisted.  This is not to belittle or downplay the contributions of the enlisted.  It is just what it is.  The recruiter explained to him that before the government spent a million dollars teaching him to fly a helicopter, they wanted to have some indication that he had the mental aptitude and that he finished what he started.

So he went to college, then joined the military and today is a helicopter pilot.

Good for him, Air force?

That's awesome!!! Getting to do what he loves to do for a living... make sure he knows how blessed he really is!!!

China has more soldiers than the US, Russia and all of Europe combined. If they would decide to take over a country, any country, it would be pretty easy.... and yes, economically, they are the super power already!
Afganis defeated the Russian army back then when Russia was still the Soviet Union, and therefore huge and powerful. That should give us a good clue that they will not be defeated by anyone.
 

tell him thank you for his service and to keep the rotor blades turnin.
you are right to guide him to college first. if my dad had not have invested my college money into land, i woulda done the same.
they are not making anymore land, so i see it as an investment.

now as far as changing who we put in power. YES we can change it. we simply dont vote for those running. without a vote, the government cant just put into power who they want, unless that has been changed in our constitution, which i wouldnt put it past them to vote their self in. according to our constitution and decleration, the government get thier power from the governed. if we dont give them the power them we put the ball into our hands. it will never happen, but it with our rights, if we gave a crap about our rights. this our country, not the governments. if we dont take a stand, there will be nothing left.
rl you and noah seem to be great political debaters. i applaud the both of yaw for your insight and input.

" Afganis defeated the Russian army back then when Russia was still the Soviet Union, and therefore huge and powerful. That should give us a good clue that they will not be defeated by anyone. "

Just for the factual record the Afgans were having there a$$e$ handed to them by the Russians, a " Texas " sen. or congressman can't remember his office named Charlie Wilson came into the mix, then uncle sam funded, armed and fueled the afgan's and THEN they began to win, on there own they were being crushed by the Russians. We really didn't care about the afgan people, it was pay back for the Russian's funding the north vietcong back in the day. There beatable and if our military was unleashed with out restraint you would soon see that.

 
RL- Exactly how do Native Americans or native indians as you called them smell exactly? I'd love to hear  ??? Sage? Cedar oil? Corn?

We have never really seen the full force of a super power country. It would devestate the world to a point of no return. I could see three things that would happen.
1. The country that invaded would be the supreme .
2. It would start a whole new arms race.
3. We would decide to cut back ever bodies military and weopons depots.

I would hate for this to happen but one day it possibly could.
Let me know what y'all think

if that was the case, the chinese will be on top. with man power they have, it would take long to march on top of country, at least a neighboring country. i highly dought they could get across the pacific with loosing a lot of troop transport ship or even by air due to our fighter jets, tomahawk cruise missles, ship mounted patriot type ground to air missles and so on. the only way to get in by air would be to come from the north pole and make sure their planes are squaking on a civilian airliner freg. to mask them.
it would be vertually impossible for any country to build a strong enough force to walk in and take a big country over. it would take multiple nations to mass on 1 country at a time and continue to keep advancing. just dont out run your supply lines like the krauts did when they invaded russia

I was thinking more nuclear really. Those are some nasty nasty things. I don't think they would ever reach us airborn. They would have to already be on the ground under the radar. But hell I guess I watched to much tv as a kid lol