EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Alrighty boys. Always kept some birds but never got deep into it.

Quick question on Grey Game. Is there a a pure Grey that comes green or blue legged with minimal brass back. If so what's the bloodline and if ya got em let's see pics of the Cocks and hens of the same bloodline.

Preciate it.

You might be talkin bout some black greys like
Mayb warhorse xgreys or something most are gonna have grey hackle feathers though

Will also have grey saddle feathers

That makes since. I bought a warhorse hen that is the basis of my question. Now....is the warhorse a cross combo or considered pure grey strain? 

I have some Joe Goode, Frost and I believe law grey. But hell I ain't into the strains enough to pick them from the crowd.

Think the Goode have more brass backs Frosts with lighter hens and law are more the straight lace rubby breasted hens.

Break it down for me brotha

Warhorses can be solid black to like a brassy back  sone are almost bb red
The war horse is supposed to be a dark fowl not actually a grey they are like black , black reds an some have a little grey mixed in so some are black greys ,

Just like Cur dogs some added a little of this an a little of that an you can't tell till maybe 4 or so generations down it will pop out ,

I have some Spanish birds they are mostly white an black splashed pinto they call them well I had some chicks an a got a spangled colored little stag all the others are white , lol who knows a throuw back from some where , post a pic of your hen

I'd like to see some pictures of yalls birds especially the pinto birds you're talking about Swamphunter.

I post some when I get home from work

Yep likewise. See if I can get a few up so yall can classify.

I aint got no pics of any greys, they all got sent away by them black mugs!!!  LOL

Warhorse hen

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/1051099348_photobucket_193752_.jpg)
(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/2012-07-02_16-53-31_255.jpg)

Said this was a Law Grey

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/2012-07-02_16-46-03_514.jpg)

These are some Goode and Frost crosses I was told.

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/1051099348_photobucket_193759_.jpg)
(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/1051099348_photobucket_193766_.jpg)

joe goud , raised some greys that came green legged, he got some ted mclain hatch and put in them back in the late 50s an 60s. sweater mcguinnes had green legged greys but they also had mclain hatch in them.
i bought my warhorse blood out of calif . they where solid black ,those were the bacon warhorse. the lemmon neck warhorse were called hoover warhorse. bout they all started from brown red famly.  you breed black to greys and they normaly produce knife chickens. very fast and cut good. but if you take mclain hatch and breed to the warhorse like i did they make badass knife chickens. cut,look good and lots of bottum. iv got a old warhorse cock on the yard ill take a pic

the first hen looks like hatch grey hen.  perfection frost greys came pearl legged all the ones iv seen around here that these old timers had were.
is that grey cock straight comb? tom leggett faught sme law greys and he put some blueface hatch in to them and they were good chickens. they came green or yellow legged.

Not trying to hijack thread but I got a few questions . I got me some Phoenix Fowl chicks this past spring. I was told phoenix were made by crossing game fowl to japanese ornamental fowl. I'm not interested in fighting them. All I'm after is some fowl that can survive on some wooded property. I started with 7 cocks and 5 hens and have not lost any yet. The Phoenix will tolerate other cocks as long as they were all raised up from chicks together. They also tolerate young cocks born in the flock. Now they spar their butts off but so far so good. Do you think I could mix in some pure game blood or would that mess up the whole make up of what I got going?

(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload13-2.jpg)
this is a warhorse hen of mine an she still carrying alittle mclain hatch cause she peaheaded . a pure warhorse comes straight comb.
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload2-1.jpg)
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload12-4.jpg)
these are my toppy chickens, there half toppy and muff. some come with a beard and toppy. i call them my hippie chickens

Monty

So what does the buttermilk hen look like. She also has green legs but the hen she was out of was pearl legged and colored same. The rest of the hens I have free ranged all look like the two on the bottom. 


Jimco

Ask away brotha not hijacking anything. That's what this thread is for.  Questions and Answers.

jimco, i would all most bet if you breed more game in to the, one day you will come home and have a bunch of blood headed chickens laying around. i bred a bantum last yr to some game hens and they fight like hell . this winter im going to fight a main in the short knife just to see how game they are they wiegh 2lb 4 oz an 2lb 8oz there little but put on a show

The 12 I have are Silver Duckwing Phoenix. Next spring I want to mix in some Black Shubert Phoenix,  same birds just another color.

                      (http://)(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/eelcat1/phoenix07.jpg)
                      (http://)(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/eelcat1/BlackShubertPhoenix.jpg)

miles she looks like she is a hatch / grey to me. but if you take a grey cock and breed over a black hen they could come colored like that. one time i bred racey mugs for 15 yrs they were black chickens straight comb had slate leggs. one fall i hatched 1500 out and one came with a bread. never before has this happened. so i called the old man and asked why this pullet came with a beard. he laughed and said one time back yrs ago we won a derby and a guy fighting muff (bearded chcks) won to and he gave him a cock and when he got home he through that bearded cock in with some of the raceymug hens and 20 yrs later i raised one . them raceymugs were still carrying a gean in there blood it was a through back.

if you have the real law greys and joe goud , and you got them straight from those 2 guys then i bet they put a little of ted mclain hatch or sweater mcguineses in them greys, thats why they have green leggs.   back in the 50s an 60s 70s, bill goud,joe goud, ted mclain, mr sweater, mr gavlin , were all bbuddies and they all swap chickens.

if you got yur chickens from some chicken fighter there aint no telling what has been bred in to those chickens now. chicken fighters are always trying to breed the best of the best , them chickens you have do look good, and i bet they hit hard cause of the hatch blood in them.

just remeber dark leggs is power and yellow or pearl is yur speed. and anything peaheaded has orientel in it what i mean is it came from tiland or guam or the filapienes.

just a reminder i personaly dont thank there are any pure breded chickens left, cause somebody put something else in to them to make them better. if there is they are inbred real bad

jimco love the blue cock right behind the big black rooster

Gotcha!   Bout what I figured but always like to get a more educated opinion. 

Now if any of you wanna buy some grade A.. pure as the driven snow...grey, hatch, kelso, warhorse, butcher, brown red, with a touch of dish water blonde albino canadian goose. I GOT WATCHA LOOKIN FOR.   LOL ;D

Preciate it brotha.

Yall throw up some more pics of watcha got. I like checkin them out.

Nothing special but we cross him over some laying hens.  I don't even know what he is truthfully or of he's a full game bird or not.


(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss166/BA-IV/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3808.jpg)

I also want to get me a pair of these Tomaru' long crowers to keep in a flight cage. Check out the link and click on the two audio players
and listen to them crow.

                         http://www.longtail-fowl.com/tomaru.html

ba-iv, looks like hes blueface or robbins hatch, good looking

I'll find out from him tomorrow and see what the guys says.  I'm fixing to buy another rooster identical to the one in the picture.

another hippy chckn
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/09-29-11_1709.jpg)
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload12.jpg)
mclain hatch
after 24 yrs this is what i got left to remeber all my derbys
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownlovvvgvvvvvvad-1.jpg)
good times

Monty, did you ever come to Sunset,La. and fight against those cajun cocks?

white claret/ griffin claret
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload14-1.jpg)
deadly cutters in the knife, had these chckn long time.

lacey round head hen.
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload22.jpg)

no sir never made it to sunset. faught ark,la,tex and down by maryville and another pit up in the north part of la cant remeber the name. faught in okl alot, texhoma, cripplecreek , moonlight pit , thackerville, also faught in new mexico, hobbs pit and in jal. and faught alot in the brush in tx.

Dang Monty Merryville is 15 mins from the house. I'm young so I caught the end of the chicken fighting years. I bet you've fought against a few guys I know.

That rooster might be kelso and Allen Roundhead if that means anything but can't be for sure because that's a second hand information on the rooster.

just the topic ive been waiting for, as you know im lookin to get some and ive found some good roosters and just want some feed back.

this is one i really like. what yall think?
(http://images.craigslist.org/5L55Gc5M53E23Me3F8c5r3b96c2ad85611f06.jpg)

also another rooster that will come with 4 hens
(http://images.craigslist.org/5Ia5K55J33K63Ib3M8c5recf4470c1f8c14b1.jpg)

does this look to be a half breed?
(http://images.craigslist.org/5G15Z35Hf3K73p23Hac5rbab32809e8db12cc.jpg)

if he has dark leggs i dont thank he could be that. if there white or pearl or yellow then yes.

sch, the red rooster looks good, maybe a claret.
first grey cock looks like a sweater grey or a hatch/grey.
peahead stag brass back looks like a old joe goud grey, yur stag may have some round head or albany in him?
good looking birds i sure miss it. most of my chicken fight buddies have past away. i learned alot from them old overalls they wore

thanks monty i really like the red one.

i do remember my grandfather having some fightin roosters. rem hangin out in the loft of the barn with him and his old timers fightin their roosters. those were fun times. i was maybe 6 or 7 at the youngest.

he had alot of all white ones tho, several red ones like the one below.

sure is neat to see ya'lls birds...but all of it's like greek to me.

I do have some kin up in/around cottandale AL, and i remember as a kid goin up there and seeing a bunch of roosters penned up in (i think was a great uncle or cousin's) yard and askin my grandpa what they were for...as i had never seen someone need so many roosters...he kinda blew me off, but being the little pest i was i found out later on, and even got to see some of the "knives" ( i think thats what you call 'em)

but i will always remember something i heard about breeding, that i heard from a chicken man..."you always build your barn before you try to paint it"...and im trying to keep this in mind as i try to line up a female to breed my male dogs to.

spanish jerezanos from florida very game little birds
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/c7b479aa.jpg)
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/97fb9db4.jpg)
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/ef0c0c38.jpg)
the little spangled stag
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/670d0620.jpg)
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/b6c35798.jpg)
ko shamo used to have a few they are cool little birds an game lol i only got her left
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/IMG_0230.jpg)
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/07551e6e.jpg)
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/4cdb348d.jpg)
penny hatch
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/P2280249.jpg)
greyXhatch
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/IMG_0191.jpg)
greyXasil
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/P1011081.jpg)
white hackle
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/P1011037.jpg)
blue Xgrey
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/dfb77ef7.jpg)
RoundHead
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/3742dc5d.jpg)
Asil
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/0629caa5.jpg)
asilXhatch
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/P4280545.jpg)

(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/04a58249.jpg)
blue hydrabad asil  he is moulting or he would look really good

joe we outta get together and have a little chicken party and invite any ethd member to come and cook hambergurs and we could have side betting.lol

maybe fry some chicken lol  ;D

Mr. Monty, was it Starks you came down to? It's about 20 or so minutes south of Merryville. D&D Game Club was there just off Hwy 12, just behind the scales. We fought 3 or 4 knife derbys there back in 88 or 89. There was also the Circle Club in Vinton, about 10 minutes further south. I lived in Buna, and me and a buddy, Melvin Shepherd, had green legged democrats from a guy named Bubba Thompson. They called him Little Mafia, all tatted up long haired biker. Short guy, about 5'2. He was pretty well known down here.  He got us started, and really helped us along with our keep and conditioning. Melvin handled our birds, and I tied. That's all I can remember about the birds. Wish I had taken pictures. Me and Melvin kinda fell out, and I went to West TX to rodeo when I graduated. Melvin went on to feed and condition for another guy who had a big yard, but I don't remember his name. I think Melvin is up in Crockett now. I don't know what ever happened to Mr. Bubba, or that lin of birds he had been working on for about 15 years at that point.

A good Old friend of  mine Lawrence Mosley  Ran a pit down bancroft Hwy in Merryville for years and now he's a hog huntin Ole Fool ! LOL

I sure wish I would have taken more pics of all the roosters ive had. I pretty much sold out when del Rio got shut down. Ive still got two black/grey roosters. Had two black/grey puletts til the other day one of my GSP got loose. I really miss the sound of 60-80 roosters sounding off at daylight, but when these last two are gone there probly wont be no more.

 (http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu277/tnhillbilly/chickens029.jpg)
Pair of hatch

 (http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu277/tnhillbilly/Mobile%20Uploads/0521111642a.jpg)
 (http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu277/tnhillbilly/Mobile%20Uploads/0424101351.jpg)

He still raise any Roosters Yeller.  You ain't to far and I'd like to buy one more for these hens I have around the house and make a hog hunt yalls way.

If he'll let me take pics got a relative that raises yellow legged Hatch, Sweater Greys  and He did have some Frost and Bates Greys also !

Matt

If you make a bundle deal on them overnight the grey down here to the thickets.  ;D

you wanna send a black faced mutt up here... rolleyes >:D

Man I wish I would've been a little older before all this went away. Sound like some good times for sure from all the stories I have heard. I live in the city now, but Ive got five acres in the country I plan on movin to in a few years, and my wife has informed me that we will have a few birds around the yard. All her life she grew up with her father having a yard full of them, and it was one of her chores growin up to take care of them. He got rid of all when it was outlawed here in OK. Her brothers in Utah still have a yard full, and they make trips south of the border a few times a year for some big money shows.

Here is a pic of my wife and bro in law with some of his birds. I aint got the slightest clue as to what kind they are. Like someone said before, all this bird talk is Greek to me.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j64/mod93dirt/cockfightin-1.jpg)

After re-reading all the posts in the topic, I think YBM is really just asking all these questions in order to figure out how to breed a black beaked yella feathered rooster. Haha!!  ;D

Oooooooooooo. We went straight to dirty blackmailing  Lol.

Outstanding idea.

 MONTE CAN THIS BE DONE? :laugh:

Guys, i have been intrigued by game birds for quite some time, thanks for all the info, quite interesting!


"the sun is shining somewhere in texas" -Jason Boland

x2

kinda getting in on this a little late guys, but those phoenix cross back to games pretty well. just makes a longer feathered game looking bird. they're just for looking at. my dad  bred  a brass back grey rooster to a white hen and it produced those real nice looking silver greys you were talking about. both the hen and rooster were dark legged. i'm looking for some shamo if you guys know of any. i prefer some with color. i've been playing with a cross between the shamo, phoenix, and blue andalusian. trying to produce really blue, longer feathered, and athletic body style all in one.

any thang is possible in tx miles. iv got a bunch of half warhorse stags ill give some body if they come get them.

all a democrat rooster is  a hatch bred over a claret.  iv heard of his name but didnt know him.

that pair of hatch look alot like the old gavlin hatch that johny stansil raised out of clarksville tx.

tnhll, is that grey cock a law grey , or a bumble foot grey.

ha ha anytime you young uns wanna see if you got good chickens just come on over and i'll help ya figure it out   lol 

halfbreed , would you help me ? do i need to bring my own cocks or stags ? im always down to learn more about chickens. i do no a keep is 365 days . ill even bring a pocket of money to pay you.

wish i could learn from you two fellas rolleyes

Here is couple more of my young stags. They all came pearl legged. But me as a color stickler...I want them solid grey with green or blue legs....why.?????   Cause of my OCD. Hehe.

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/1051099348_photobucket_194333_.jpg)(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/1051099348_photobucket_194334_.jpg)

lol i've schooled a bunch of fellers in my day . but strickely in the gaff shame it ain't legal no mo .but like i told em all   THAT DAMN SHORT KNIFE WOULD BE THE RUIN OF THIS SPORT .  all the major breeders went to breeding for speed and no bottom. they done bred the spurs plum off the hen lines . hell i could condition a show of good cuttin white legorns and be in the money in the knife . i wish i still had all my old birds but i keeps me a few on hand , had a tornado wipe me out in 2002 . that little wind storm set me back about $ 50,000.00 dollars  i got me some yellow leg hatches and a few of slims chickens around the house just to mess with and some line bred joe good kelso's wich came from slim via joe loosing a dominoe game to slim . what's the biggest shame of all is my neighbor is a J.P. out here gotta be nice .

funny story i rem of my younger days, a fella showed up with a leg horn that whooped up on every rooster my papa had on his yard  :laugh:

halfbreed, explain the different class of fights such as the short knife and how they differ. It's not legal no more so I don't see why we can't talk about it. Also explain a little bit about how to condition a bird. I'm just curious as I know very little about it.

some terms and conditioning would be nice to learn

gaff , is a small steel kinda needle like these test the true gameness of a bird fights can go a long time , the short knife is 1in or so knife birds that hit the body an neck are best , long knife is 4in or so knife im not a big fan of long knife lots of lucky shot win  most fights are only for the birds to break a few times , of coures this was back when it was legal not any more

i would post pics but donno how legal that would be so....

halfbreed iv faught with the best and beat the best, but i desagree with you about it dont take bottom in the knife. if thiers no time limmit and both cocks get cut down  it takes a game rooster to keep pecking if he cant walk or crawl.  old man told me if my roosters are breathing they better show fight.  i faught all the 3  weapons. long knife was my favorite, but were i live there more mexicans and they fight the short nife. so i learned to fyt that weapon. made alot of money with the old knife.
here is a pic of 3 weapons
1 long knife- t bolt 3 inches
2 is a red boot an short knife  1 inch
3  these are gaffs   ,  made by  duke 74     lenght  2 1/2 inches
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload17-1.jpg)

yes the birds [ a few ] may still have bottom but the short knife is strickley for and pushed in the U.S.A by the gamblers . they wanted fast money turn overs and no drag pit , thus the time limit and draws on [ shows ] . the gamblers would just by a dozen preconditioned cocks and go to a derby sometimes never seeing the roosters till show day . the demand for these type roosters pushed most the breeders to start breeding roosters just to sell to the gamblers . these short and lomg knife [ shows ] are the ones the hsus and peta vidioed to show the public how  [ cruel ] the sport was . you see it was legal to have tournaments to test the birds , but gambling was illiegal and the knife shows were for no more than the gamblers that never owned a chicken . these are my views and will never be changed . all you boys  that want to know more can go to www. gamerooster.com it's a good site with a forum . i actually feel uncomforatable even discussing it in these days and times . and remember to get in trouble with the law on these birds is to just show INTENT and loose em all plus your dogs and any other livestock on your place . be carefull out there lol

yur right it was fast money, and you didnt have to stay in a drag pit for a hour to win a fight,  i guess ppl got lazy an went with a faster way to win the same money as a gaff fighter less work same money.

I've seen some number 2ty knife fights las a ling time... My dad fought a blue bird at red river for 4hr in the drag pit... Best blue bird I've ever bred they were blue/Boston roundhead/gavilan hatch...

Damn stupid smart phone.....lol
*correction*
I've seen a few short knife fights last a ling time...

The way you boyz have kinda broke it down to us is....to be able to identify the bloodline of bird is kinda a combination of physical appearance along with the actual breeder who kept and raised them for a prolonged timeframe.

Hence the last names associated with them.

Morgan Whitehackle
Mclain Hatch
Joe Goode Grey

Can one or both of you boyz breakdown some of the physical appearance that are commonly used to identify each individual strain?

ha ha man if i ever saw a knife show last that long i'd pull the heads off both of them .   bout the same as the drag pit in the gaff . the chickens may have been dead game , but couldn't cut worth a lick lol as far as the basic breeds now days they call em all sorts of stuff but i would seiriously doubt you could buy a pure law grey or a pure hatch this day and time them folks been dead and gone a long time most are watered down a bunch and you can get what someone says is this or that but just like dogs the good stuff is hardly ever for sale . slim benoist is i think still alive he was a few months ago anyway and lilly goode is still sellin birds [ joe goodes wife]  but they are being bred by a grandsson or so i think . but either one of them has some good kelso blood . and the loe goode greys are hard to beat . i was huntin all my pictures a while ago thought i had em on a vidio disk i guess not . i'll have to buy me a printer copier thingy for this computer and show ya some birds . i ain't had to much luck hatchin any out this year or last or i'd turn some loose

this is the last hoover warhorse cock that is running loose on my yard.
(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload18-1.jpg)
iv got alot of biddies out of him this year.

monty are war horses black all over?

the bacon warhorse is solid black , legs are a slate grey color on the legs
 
the hoover warhorse has a lemmon neck around his hack feathers,
i got these birds from westcoast game farm in calif.

hes pretty i like em!

(http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/montybennet/securedownload19-1.jpg)
same cock

got any clarets?

just the one white claret, hes half griffin

i should be writin this down right?  :P ;D

look up , slick lizard game farm and look at jerry and jason chickens ,

those blue asil cocks got my eye real quick.

i think i like the kelso and the clarets the most

mr bennet what would you pay for a good mature rooster?

Beautiful birds--- I have a question for those who played the sport back when it was legal in this country (it is still legal in my home land)---part of the fun of the sport as I remember it was the conditioning and grooming of the birds, was it custom here in the US the groom the birds as they do in countries like Mexico, Puerto Rico and the rest of the Latin countries? Or where they fought in feathers? Just comparing I know styles change from state to state and country to country.

This is how they are groomed in my country and a bird in feathers would NOT be allowed to fight.

(http://imgcache.clasificadosonline.com//FF/Pets/2012/6/15/634753516065626804yceu0scq.jpg)


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_H1deF9LPask/TT7seNkCVkI/AAAAAAAAAAc/FkHZGcOkKUw/s1600/18366777_1.jpg)

(http://img002.adimg.com/ImgAd/2009/03/22/405143/gallos-de-pelea_3.jpg)

(http://inversionestejedas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/gallo-de-pelea1.jpg)

Is the brown cock a Hennie Spanish cross. I have seen a handfull of Hennies  go in my life and they were all outstanding. They all gave me the impression of viciousness. I watched a video of the last two rounds of the big knife derby in the Phillipines and saw four or five Hennies win in impressive short order.

I cannot confirm if its a hennie X or not Sir, sure looks like one--- I got the pixs from the internet, these are not my roosters, I posted them just to refrence the grooming part.

O

Those birds are like my Spanish birds , they groom
Them because they fight for so long with the natural spurs to keep them from over heating,

That is a hen feathered cock , I have some redquill hennies

Those are good looking  I like Spanish fowl they are sone tuff lil dudes

(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/fc5305cd.jpg)
(http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/JoDan20/43417729.jpg)

Monty, was west coast gamefarm gerald guerske?

to answer your question oly . no we didn't pluck our roosters lol they were gromed a bit for heat but if you cut off to many down feathers they would cry that you were cheating on the weight when matching .

Thank you Sirs.

Swamphunter that bottom bird is about one of the most stricking birds I seen in a long while---beautiful animal.

sch, i payed 1500 for 2 trios of birds from slick lizard, 1 was sweater and 2 was radio kelso.  these two families won me lots of money in the short nyf and kelso were awsome in the long nyf.
 i gave 800 for a trio of gavlin hatch from buck stansil.
but the rest of my birds came from the old timers i ran with. wade flat, mr cotton. roy don lynch. roy taught me how to feed and tie short and long nyf. we went to mexico an faught several mains . but i took a little of every boddies stuff and made my own and it worked for me . in 2000 i won the prelium on friday night at texhoma 4 cock short nyf 52000 dallors it was great.

gary fuller, i believe that was the guys name, but i bought them chickens 20 yrs ago,

How about the different methods of conditioning the birds? Could y'all talk a lil about that. I only knew 2 people that raised game fowl. One was a Cajun . He was big on the right diet and line breeding and just was a fanatic about the overall health of the birds. He was very successful for many years. I don't remember him sparring them or anything. He just tested them at the derbys in Sunset.

Now the other guy I knew was a Cuban who lived down the road. He was always doing things with his birds that I didn't understand as a kid but i was always curious. Some things he would do. He would hold one cock and his boy would hold another and they would just tease them for hours on in without letting them get to each other and then pick them up. He would also teather  one bird in a pit and take this sawed off homemade looking broom thing and drag it back and forth across the ground in front of him. He would also put them on rope in place of a roost pole and you could see them struggling to keep their balance until they got use to standing on the rope. He had hundreds of birds. When they made it illegal in Louisiana he got busted at home one day and he went to jail and them summbitches took and destroyed all his birds. The state police was in on it and they made an example out of him. 

so 200 for a mature clipper and 2 clipper/claret hens would be a good deal then?

i rem my papa would put his roosters on a tight rope and tie bout 6 inches of rope on a foot and when they would fall off they would hang and pull themselves back onto the rope. he would walk them on a leash like a dog too it was funny to see the looks on peoples faces

Chickens are on a seven day cycle from the time the eggs start incubating 'till the day they die. It takes three seven day cycles to hatch or 21 days, thus the two week keep. On day one, I spared mine, that and the putting them in the fly pens would knock them back and start them on my seven day cycle. The object being to have them peak on fight day. I fed mine basicly what I fed all year, which was no.1 pidgeon grain, laying pellets and oat groats along with an occasional ball of meat and bonemeal off of a meat saw and other days a ball of canned fish. I kept mine wormed, so I didn't worry about that and you could buy all kinds of vitamins that were guarenteed to make them whip a buzzsaw. Great breeding and year round good care, and keeping a sharp eye on their weight, was hard to beat. The last few days of the keep, you reduced the work and started trying to control the moisture. If you had good well cared for birds and got the moisture right, you were going to be hard to beat.

i would work my birds on a board , it was carpted an set at a 50 degree angel  and i would set the bird at the bottom and let him run an flap his wings . i would start out with 3 an every night add 3 to it. for 3 weeks and i would spur them every night, but never let them hit each other. teaching them to score or get across the pit first to fight. i fed a real high carbohydrate diet. iv put a rooster up before for 4 wks and kill him to see how much body fat he had around his gutts. the last 3 feedings they would get popcorn and a raw egg with cinnom . the last wk they would get a 20 of vitemin k to the last 3 days to help keep them from bleeding out to quick. the last wk the cocks would rest for 7 days and i would wash their legs with warm water an witch hazel the last 24 hrs before they faught i would put in boxes and black them out for them to rest . 72 hours before i faught them i would spur them an let them hit a few times to nock them down off there high. a rooster comes around every 72 hrs on his highest peak when he feels the best. 27 hours before i would fight that would be there last feeding . if i had to hold them on point for along time i would go out to the parking lot an get little rocks an put down there gizzurd so it would keep working , if it ever stopps the cocks will act sick, an some times i would give 1 piece of popcorn every hour to hold on point. if i was fighting gaff i would take water away the night before and if the nyf i would keep ot in front of them until the derby started. if a cock drink alot of water i would cull him out of the show. he normaly was running fever or sick. my feed was bluebonnet cock conditioning,split peas, peanuts ,spagetty,sardenes,brown rice,fruitcocktail,yogurt,pecans,pegionfeed,boiled eggs every night, buttermilk,popcorn, raisenes, alfafa hay, and pedealite, and oyster shell or grit
but i was taught if yur roosters were healthy all yr they didnt need much of a keep. it helps to rotate them on the yard once a wk to keep them active and happy. i probly missed some stuff i had nt put a rooster up in 3 yrs.

Damn that is alot of work behind the scenes.  I would never have imagined that much work, thought, or science went into that sport.  I'm impressed Monty.

I bet after all that you was on a high yourself when you won.

For you old time bird men:

Let's hear about your most memorable fight, and who did y'all consider to have the best birds as far as continuously winning besides yourselves of course?

thanks monty, im pretty suree that was guerscke and he sold alot of eggs. i only met him after he moved to oregon. and  it sounds like  you did good with what you got from him but from visiting his place and seein him at the fights in oregon for a few years, i doubt them chckens parents ever saw a warhorse,lol.it seemed like he  had one pair of everything or maybe  one cock or stag and up to a dozen hens. and he was known to get cocks from the dead piles and  take em and doctor em up, but he didnt have hens that matches them but he  soon after started sellin pure egss.man i wish i could get the picture thing mastered and i would post pictures  from when i attended rattliffs school in menlo georgia.  also took some pictures  at hugh normans.congrats on winnin that big prelim back then too, that was tuff competition. i loved all the old strains and  had a mess of em over the years.  my favorites were a family of california chets/ chet robinsons that i had for many years up untill i quit the birds. i also had very good luck with fowl from dan grey.

i won the hutto havvick derby at cripple creek 5 cock. im still today friends with mr hutto, his health is going but he is one off the old timers i looked up to.
tom leggett and steve tackett where awsome breeders and feeders won alot. wade flatt, buck stansil were easy going and if they liked you they would teach and show you things. oh cant for get mike ratlif, good teacher on all parts of the sport. he got his hatch blood out of the dead piel at a derby one night and he named them genral hatch , lol cause he didnt know what it was but it looked like just a old genral hatch rooster.

gary, i never seen his place but i sent him 750 dallors and i got some lemmon neck black chickens that i raised out of and these could sling some leggs and cut a rooster to death. then 1 sent him money and bought the bacon and they were good , but he told me to breed them to a mclain hatch and watch the differents , and he was right it helped and thats how i faught them. DAMN CHICKEN PEDLERS, lol   realy aint no telling what they were.

Hey Monty, I want my Phoenix fowl to stay agile and athletic as possible to have the best chance at survival in the woods and I don't want them fat. I'm still putting them up at night for another month before I turn them out for good. I feed 12 birds a quart can of feed they mix at the feed store. It has a small amount of cracked corn, some milo, some oats, a good bit of catfish pellets, and a little bit of sunflower seeds.  Do you think a quart oil can full of this feed is enough for 12 birds ?  And what do you think of this feed mix? The birds are 3 months old.

My dad had game chikens in the 50's and 60's and for a while we lived 2 miles from Everett Bishop. He was Bobby Manziels chicken man for awhile and considered by many to be one of the very best conditioners and handelers. He was a quiet man and kept to himself and didn't get the recognition that Sweater, Perry and some got, but they knew how good he was. He liked my dad and helped him alot and some of it got passed to me. In the early 80's, before he died, he let me and my brother in law have some of his old hatch clarets and they were still hard to beat.

i feed my chickens one hand full . cause its about the same size as there craw. get 12 hand fulls and see how much it fills the oil can up.  the feed sounds ok, crack corn is 6% crude protien more like a filler, dont like it can cause cancur sores on there mouth or throat. if there running loose just feed them a maintance feed. but anything is better than nothing. every once in awhile boil some eggs and feed it to them and feed yur baby chicks boiled eggs the first 7 days

what do ya'll mean by "putting up" a rooster?  Are they on some kind of cycle or was this just a training thing?

puttin em up basically means conditioning them/ putting them thru a keep. i think this comes from the way that most folks took the roosters from a walk/ runnin loose,  or off a tie cord or out of a big pen and then while conditioning them kept them  " put up" in  a small keep stall.

my question of the night is how hardy are they with winter and snow? should i change to a special feed during those times?

Interesting thread Gents.

sch, just like dogs. keep em a bit fat ni cold weather. you should be able to find some good rooster men in ohio. they used to be a ton of em there.

gary i posted some pics on page 2 of some i found for a good cheap price. older fella just wantin to thin out his roosters to prevent inbred chicks.

slowly but surely im thinkin of every aspect to get a pen goin again. just hope the city lets me have them in my yard since they are very strict. rolleyes

Here some videos I fnd from Puerto Rico (sorry they are in Spanish) it’s a three part series the second one or part 2 has some stuff on conditioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BrZriNzfpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOS0ewWQ74g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mbbNvh0Cbg

Please remember that this is national sport in Puerto Rico, 100% legal, the pits are government run and strictly regulated by the department of sport and recreations.  Any questions on the Videos I can translate for yall.

Talked to a few ol-friends and it seems roosters in Caribbean tend to be smaller and faster than those in England, North America and the Philippians.  I guess they also believe it’s a test of endurance and stamina as well hence they like naturals.


Lost of Videos on youtube on training and lots of actual matches.

sch, add  more corn to yur feed in winter

mr bennet what about rabbit food and some sweet feed?

any body want some asil birds ? i got a few chicks an maybe some grown birds i would be willing to give you as long as you dont sell them to no body an kept them around

Well boys.....scored me some Joe Redmond Greys and some Brown Irish Hennie's. 
Gonna play with these awhile and see where we go from here.

Had to go cross the nation to find these lil fellers but guess we will see how they match up on these nasty ole Frosts. 

Will get some pics up in a few days.

Look forward to the pics.....recon I can talk ya out a lil trio of them hennies when you raise some ??

Only if ya talk sweet to me Bryant.......only if ya talk sweet... :-* :laugh:

This topic brings back a lot of good memories. I had chickens back in the 70s and 80s. I got my first trio from Johnny Jumper. I learned to handle and condition from Johnny and Shorty Bullock. Was a regular at Sunset and Cormier's(sp). I sure do miss it.

Anyone got any pure McLean or Gavilan hatch hens?

We were regulars at rocky hill went under the Durango entry... My dad, grandpa, uncle and old Mexican guy that went by pepe thought me what I know.. My fad is alfonso "poncho" Rueda... Grandpa is Roberto Morales and his brother Manuel Morales they fought at thackerville and in Mexico .... Man do I miss those days!!

Missed this somehow. That was a bumblefoot,

Hey Jimco, my dad and I used to fight a lot of chickens in OK and LA with good results. When they out lawed the fighting we got out of the game chickens just to keep from all the gossip circulating, my dad is a police chief, didn't need it. Anyway, because we loved the games and wanted chickens, we started crossing the Phoenix with some Shamo. We wanted a game appearance but to be able to run multiple roosters out together and still have a bird that would get out and hustle. We added station and athleticism to the Phoenix and feather to the Shamo. We've been going for the blues because there are so many color schemes you can come up with. So far so good but still trying to better them.

Did any of you guys go out to Copper State? I went there a few times as a kid. My best friends dad competed there and Mexico.

i fought a couple times at the new copper state/ across from blythe california but not at the original copper stae pit  that was by phoenix.

yeah the last time i was there when I was a kid I remember some guy winning a bunch there with some birds called sudden death greys. I still remember that name. It is a pretty catchy one. Must of been good too to win there.

sudden death greys sure rings a bell but i cant  remeber who it was. and i remember fighting in a derby at sequatchie gameclub in jasper tennesee against jim steele and his pig iron greys. i remember at copper state that dan grey sold every rooster he had with him if they didnt get wrecked for 500 bucks each after the derbies were over.

I had roosters for a lot of  years fought kelso's, hatch and roundheads a few finley greys when randal slawson, belton enloe and I fought together! I fought at most every pit in Louisiana from 1979 till 2005 had a great time doing it and won a lot of derbies fought mostly gaff but did fight a few short and long knife. The most constient winner was Wayne baker and those greys!! MR J.d. pope also won a lot of derbies at circle club before he got killed in the fire at the Conoco plant near Houston!! I guess if it was still legal I would still do it!!! The guys that could control the moistier controlled the rooster game and Johnny jumper was one of the best at that!!

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Check these out YBM

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Yepper. Lookin good on them reds. Brotha.

I will take a couple new pics of these Irish Hennies and Joe Redmonds. They are starting to get fiesty. 

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This yr off spring
Warhorse/toppy muff

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Toppymuff/mcleanhatch

Good lookin birds yall have there.

Were them pics at Cuz??

Was gonna try today but didn't get off before dark.

Lemme get the slave drivers under rap and ill get em up.  ;D

Fine lookin birds Mr. Bryant and yellablackmask!

I had some pure I mean pure greys that came green leged and stright comb  they were the polecat blood line  and they were dead game mean as hell red eye birds  lost that breed about two years a go to wild dogs read up on the pole cat greys from swetear mcguinness and if you ever find one buy it but there not cheap a man in the game cock magazine had some I think its grady farm who has them call and ask about them

Couldn't get any great pics Bryant but here they are.

Bill Robert Butchers

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Hennies

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Joe Redmond Grey with some butcher pullets.

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Some Greys

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Good lookin white butchers. I used to have some white birds that were sure game. They were White Murphy/ White Kelso.

Does anybody have or ever heard of Mimms hatch? Dont know if that is spelled correctly.

Well all this talk about birds makes me go crazy!! This was my life until they did away with it my family owned a pit in Oklahoma . By the time I was 15  I had around 100 cocks an they last last year before they shut down went out 85% on winning.Any of you guys ever fight down on the river bottom in harrah Oklahoma???

Well were showing 4 in a show sat.I hate time limits

SWEATER GREY

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k623/GalloNX4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_103458_zpsauygwpns.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/GalloNX4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_103458_zpsauygwpns.jpg.html)

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SILVER BULLET

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k623/GalloNX4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_122246_zpshyyqzqmc.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/GalloNX4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_122246_zpshyyqzqmc.jpg.html)

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k623/GalloNX4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_122226_zps3kbq9xnh.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/GalloNX4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_122226_zps3kbq9xnh.jpg.html)

MANZIEL BLACK

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k623/GalloNX4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_105300_zpsjhks9qmx.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/GalloNX4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_105300_zpsjhks9qmx.jpg.html)

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MEL SIMS KELSO

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k623/GalloNX4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_105022_zpssohcqfgz.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/GalloNX4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_105022_zpssohcqfgz.jpg.html)

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Maybe you mean Sims Hatch?

it is mims hatch, not sure but i think from texas.im thinkin carl mims but that may be from pitdogs.

Found this...

" I told Jr. that I wanted to buy a top Hatch cock and he told me to "take my pick". We discussed the mating at great length and he recommended a beautiful Mill Mimms Hatch cock explaining to me that he gave $500 for the trio and that the fowl came from Owen McGuiness who got them from Duke Hulsey and in turn let Bill Mimms have them. Carl Malls had brought the Mimms fowl to Austin and Jr. called them the greatest Hatch fowl in America. This Mimms cock was the Daddy of the Witch Doctors."

Any of y'all ever here of Mohican blue topys