EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

 I have seen where people talk about differant bred Americans. What are the differant types and what is so important about them? Performance,Scotts,etc? I have seen two. One was over 100lbs and a pet. One is around 50-60 and is a catch dog.

johnsons are usually bigger, i do know that, the scotts are smaller, bred to be working dogs

I have 2... a female johnson type that is a pet, she weighs over 100 lbs,  still might use her in the woods but itll be a place where id ride because she is just to damn big to be led thru the woods, plus i doubt she could go thru a whole hunt without passing out, lol

my male is a 70 lb smaller one, he is a pretty good catch dog, has a lot of energy

daniel (RIP on here) has a female scott type that is a RCD and a freak, she has more energy than most curs.

Johnson type were developed as estate guardians...the old man put english bulldog, St. Bernard, and who knows what else into his dogs. Typically these dogs are larger (both male and female) in the 90-100+ range, bullier, and don't breathe as well.

Scott type (or performance) were developed/bred to work (catch work). Typically, they are in the 60-90 pound range, longer muzzle, more athletic.

Then there are "hybrids" - a cross of the Johnson and Scott types. Some of these look good and work...however, there isn't hardly any consistency in what they produce.

The Johnson Bulldogs originated in Summerville, GA by Mr. John D. Johnson. The came from the old plantation line of Bulldogs in the South they were used more as guard dogs. The Scott line of dogs was developed by Alan Scott and were primarily used for catching cattle and hogs they have a longer snout and are generally smaller more athletic dogs.


Johnson

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt187/pecos21/elroy8.jpg)

Scott

(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt187/pecos21/Johny_Reb.jpg)

The discussion here seems to be revolving around the Scott and Johnson bull dogs so Ill try to keep my comments in line with that theme.....

I feel it is obvious that the Scott TYPE is both bred, and proves superior in the woods, as a working dog due to its physical structure. That being said, no matter the breeding, the TYPE is what matters. A dog does not have to be Scott bred to be a performance dog, regardless of the breeding, it will have to exhibit those physical characteristics, such as a longer nose, balanced body, muscle to weight ratio, deep chest, well sprung ribs etc., to preform.

Johnsons may throw a good performance catch dog some times and Scotts may throw an overweight short nosed future heat stroke on occasion. (granted that each would call such an occurrence a CULL)

I guess that my point is that each dog should be judged on its own merit regardless of that law of averages and regardless of its breeding. That applies to all catch dogs, not just those two breeders.

Steve

All basically correct answers.....a "modern" day johnson will not consistently work here ...to big and to hot for them...

A hybrid if you can find a good one can get it done but after 20 years the original 1/2 johnson and 1/2 scott/performance has degenerated to were you have to find breeders trying to use a performance type hybrid....


Performance/scott/woods dog types will prolly suit a man best for a useable woods catch dog.

Here is Pee-Wee a performance/woods bred dog w/ NO Johnson blood at all.

95#s and 26 + in tall...

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/DSC00214.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/DSC00210.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/11-22-08006.jpg)

Pee-wees sire,Porky...all woods dog,no modern or main stream bloodlines

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/bryantsoldpics015.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/bryantsoldpics014.jpg)

Pee-wee and his mom....

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/tamnpee004.jpg)

More to come....gotta eat lol

Here is a link to the History of the American Bulldog and John D. Johnson and Alan Scott's involment...........it is very informative.......

http://www.bamas-best-kennels.net/AmericanBulldogHistoryandStandards.htm

underdog
 do you own that porky dog?

was that pic taken at your place ?

it looks just like a guys place here in oklahoma

not bad info for the basics but it could be argued that the american bull dog is just over sized catch weight pit developed in a different direction than historically with x,y and z added for looks and size as needed or wanted,remember Jonh D and Alan were marketing these dogs for profit....and back when dog fighters did not really keep the big,large catch weight dogs...they were sent to the country for catch dogs and generally were less dog agressive than there smaller relatives. Probabally the reason the american bull dog used to be called the "american pitbull dog" ...just my thoughts...


No but know the owner well and yes, the pic was taken at his place in Oklahoma.

Pecos21, no doubt these 2 men were the "forefathers" of the modern,marketable American bulldog.

underdog

 is the guys  name Bob  , i forgot his last name

Here is a hybrid who is on the edge of being "bullier" than I prefer but still functional and throws a functional dog when bred right..

Annie

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/x-ma12-31-06002.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/P1190136.jpg)

Annie and Brother Nubbin...both out of a line of working hybrids...

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/mainpicfile183.jpg)


Nubbin..hybrid...

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/nubbin1.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/1-4-09031.jpg)


(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/3-17-08022.jpg)

Here is a hybrid out of Pee-wee and Annie, Cash

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/1008.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/1009.jpg)

Here is Izzy a performance/woods bred dog.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/3-8-09009.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/1-18-08013.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/1-4-09002.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/1-4-09034.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/11-22-08008.jpg)

Another performance bred pup/dog...Shiner

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/shiner-1.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/11-22-08007.jpg)

Yes, did you ever see Porky or tammy in person? How bout Grub or July?

PM..if you get a chance.

good lookin abs underdog

shiner looks kinda similar to my dog Buddy

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/8_shots/023-1.jpg)

and here's Roxie, she is a pet.

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/8_shots/012.jpg)

underdog

yes i have seen all of his dogs. really nice dogs..

that porky dog is the dad to Mike's Clifford dog.

i got a pair of dogs from Bob a few years back, he had a grey hound dog too.
im not shure if he crossed it with the ab's or not.

i have lost touch with Bob , hows he doin?

Thanks Shawn....your male deos resemble Shiner..how is he bred? The female is the one you considered selling awhile back correct? they both look pretty nice.


Put the brakes on....Mike has a Porky son? could someone please get me a pic and more info on this dog? who was the female? I am very interested in this Cliford dog if anyone can fill me in please.

Thanks.

Craig, how long back has it been ? Porky has been dead for a bit..yes he did breed one of the stags to a Porky daughter...

Here are two of the stag/bulls from him that reside here in Tx.

Edited for....yes craig he is doing well as of last week lol.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/IMG_1778.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/IMG_1776-1.jpg)

Not really sure on Buddy's breeding, my niece came up with him from a friend of hers who had mistakenly bought him thinking he'd look like an english bulldog... rolleyes.. :D
my niece gave him to me.

Yeah I was thinkin of sellin Roxie but the wife put the brakes on that, I think she'd be a good breeding dog to a smaller male ab, like Buddy but as far as her catching she's just to big and clumsy...she's fast, and athletic, but really to big.

Man Clifford is the super star of this web site  ;D
clifford is out of a catahoula gyp Bob had.

it has been a while about 5 or 6 years since i have talked to Bob
i got clifford and a litter mate to him sold the brother to Doug Mason i think he ended up in Georgia ,Doug can correct me if im wrong.

i had 2 more after that are still local.

those crosses are cool looking dogs

Clifford

(http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/_wp_generated/wp203f690b_0f.jpg)

I never said I was smart  ;) ;D

Is Clfford straight AB? if so he is prolly Porky x Tammy or Porky x ...crap can't remember her name right now....


Craig,Mike and Mr. Mason I assume that Clifford is a good dog correct? what was the reason for selling the brother?


How much of this blood can you put your hands on?

Thanks for everthing.

Thanks Circle C...any more info on him?

Bryant

underdog
 clifford is out of a catahoula gyp Bob had, blue lep.

as good as they come, i think alot of people would second that.

those dogs just got bigger than i wanted .

thats all of those dogs i know about , except your dogs

does Bob have any dogs left?

Thanks Craig....was it one of the gyps in the tail gate shot I posted earlier? prolly the smaller one? or did you see the gyp?

Bob has a coupple left...I just got a gyp back from him we were breeding to July but it did not take....there are a couple around.

So Clifford is one of our famous "catahoula bulldogs" lol  I am glad he is a good one,he may have had a coupple brothers named Danny boy and....?? Appreciate the info.

Thanks.

yeh, if she came from Bob i bet thats her

Yeah when look at those pics you can really tell he is built like his daddy.
Clifford Getting it Done!
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f277/matt_aggie04/DSC03120.jpg)

Cool, Matt thanks and to everyone else...sorry for jackin this thread...I just get exited when I see old dogs I know of or had a hand in...thanks.


I think he is from Leaah, the small cat gyp on the tail gate pic....she had cancer and was recently put down. If indeed that is his litter then the whole bunch of them turned out good but rough....

Underdog,

    Any chance the Stag crosses belong to Charles Gasch down in Pearsall?

Yes sir they do.....he really thinks highly of them.

small world after all   ;D

Bryant, I got Clifford from Craig when he was around 1 1/2 old... he's 6 1/2 now. He's been a helluva catch dog for me. I love everything about him, his handle, his temperment, his size and catching ability. With the exception of the last year or two, he was the only catch dog on most hunts... caught a lot of big ones by himself.

I always wondered what the dogs he's out of looked like... his daddy sure looked good.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/DEERHUNTER280/Clifford11-12-06.jpg)

Mike, seriously, Clifford may be the coolest looking dog I have ever seen. and I have seen an a** load of dogs!!!

Thank you! ;)

No doubt, The first time I saw him, I was impressed. The pics dont really do justice, to show his size, I think. He's a big dog.

On the subject of American Bulldogs....I have had an American/Pit cross and a full blooded American Bulldog. Thus far, I have been pretty impressed with them. The AB/Pitt cross was a heck of a dog. Straight ear, easy handle, and good winded. I lost him last summer. Sent him in to a bay, hog broke, and never seen hide or hair of him since. The full AB I got right after from hd curs. I really like this dog alot,he is also straight ear, super docile, easy handle, and good winded. He has taken his fair share of cuttins and never let go yet. I have to admit, I was suprised at how well these dogs could handle the heat and was impressed about the amount of grit they had. I dont know the breeding on either one, but they sure were and are good ones.

Here are a few pics of them
Cujo...AB/Pit cross. I am still hoping to find this dog and will still give a reward for any info. Lost in Riesel Tx
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/got2catchem/100707hunt006.jpg)

Bocephus on the right..Full AB..This ol dog has really impressed me.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/got2catchem/122008hunt008.jpg)
Bocephus and my APBT Sadie on a early winter morning swim w/Bryant
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/got2catchem/DSC01428.jpg)
SHNF
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/got2catchem/catch3.jpg)

this was my  AB AMMO (at 8months) he was a great dog. I bought him and his brother it cost me 900 dollars a piece in 2005 to get them shipped from Alabama. The bad thing was that Neither of them seen the age of 2.  I can look at their papers but i think they were Hybrids.

(http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/nosightsneeded/AMMO.jpg)

(http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr194/nosightsneeded/AMMO2.jpg)

what happened to em donald?

Ammo got killed by a speeding truck after that we put Doc on a chain. Doc broke the chain and tried to jump the fence and got hung up.

thats bad im sorry for you

Scott hit the nail on the head, except that performance type now typically is pit bull infused in them down the line, however, scott type was considered the performance type until Screamin Eagle, Dorsey, Hines, and several others added pits.(This is my opinion from what I have read over the years and is also the opinion of many other credible folks involved in the breed, but by no means a fact in most cases)

Here is Shiner recently (coupple days ago) on his 1 year b-day....I think he is going to be big but functional.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/5-14-09005.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/5-14-09002.jpg)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/5-14-09012.jpg)