EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

This weekend my son who is 17 and a friend of his decided to go out on a guided hunt with a friend as some helpers.  I keep getting bits and pieces of the story but this is what I know so far.  So they were out hunting and get on a bay.  My son and his friend are riding horses and going to the bay.  Apparently the guy who paid for the hunt brought some dogs or they were trying a new dog out ( still not clear).  So they cut this new dog loose and goes straight for the mule my son is riding. Then the mule starts to buck well my son goes to jump off and when he falls he lands on his shoulder next thing you know this dog has got a hold of his neck. So he yells and the dog lets go either from him yelling (i think) so he's there dazed and doesnt notice until he gets up that he landed on a hornets nest.  During this time the dog's have turned to chasing the mule and his friend trying to get the mule is kicken the dogs to get them off.  I take my son to the hospital and he's complaining about his shoulder being sore and his neck hurting from the bite.  The hospital starts asking if we called the sheriff's and animal control and my son starts to get mad from all the questions.  He just wants some pain meds for the shoulder and to call it a night.  We start talking and he said I could have died.  He said when he went to jump off the mule his foot got caught. Those dogs chased the mule for some distance.  After a couple hours waiting in the hospital to be seen we ask how much longer it was going to be and they said there was like 5 people ahead of him and it would be a while.  So we decided to go home.  So far he seems to be fine but him telling me he was dazed it concerns me.  He is 17 and hard headed as can be like he can just brush things off.  He says it just a freak accident and doesnt want to make it a big deal.  I understand this is what he loves to do and I try to stay out of his business but the thought of him telling me this story I have a hard time sleeping.  I dont want to tell him not to hunt but I want him to understand accountability.  I'm not here to point fingers but who should take responsibility?  I have a kid with a sore shoulder and a bite mark on his neck and his friend with a mule with bite marks and punctures holes from the dog and wire fences from running.  Should I being he is a minor and just take it as a bad experience, The guide who took them or the owner of the dog who started it?  Like I said I'm not here to bad mouth anyone nor start any talk.  What are your thoughts?  Thanks for listening.  I needed to get this off my chest.

Not sure what to say other than wow hope he's ok. I'd personally be looking to kill a dog but maybe that's just my temper. I know I've got a rule that if one of my dogs bites me it's the end of the road for him. Not sure how I'd react to someone else's dog doing it.

Tough situation. I don't want to give any advice on what to do, but just a little advice for your son.
1. Be sure to have a pre-game meeting before hunt.
2. Talk to new hunters, clients. Let them know to stay with you or guide at all times and to follow instructions because everyones health could depend on it.
3. Talk about dogs. Tendencies, etc. if there is a new dog make sure owner keeps a handle ob him.
4. Discuss how things are gonna be done. I.E. how bays will be handled, split bays - who's goin where, etc. When catch dogs gonna be let loose, how far.
5. Have a plan for emergency situations.

Without knowing your son you would have to be the one to make the final call. But if he has always shown good judgement and typically learns from his mistakes then let it be a learning experience. Truth is if you forbid him from hunting he would prolly slip around and do it anyway. As far as liability that's a tough one. Since he appears to be ok just let it go and you can focus on why it happened. If he said to you that he thought he could have died then he got the message. At his age he's going to assume that any one older than him has more experience. That's just not the case. Impress that on him and that no one is out there looking out for him but himself. That's a spooky spot being on someone elses horse,around someone elses dogs with people that have paid to have a " good time". Glad he's doing ok.

Long as he's ok now, kill the dog then let it be.

If all that didn't cure him of his desire to run dogs, then don't fool with trying to stop him, chicks dig scars and that's a heck of a hunting story.  ;)

Sorry to hear about your son. That sounds pretty rough. I know it's hard to do but I would'nt put my foot down and say no more hunting and I'm speaking from both sides of the fence on this. I was running hogs at his age  and now I have a son who is close to his age that hunts with me. Hog hunting can get pretty western at times and can be dangerous, especially if you don't use your head. I will not go into some of my close calls because I don't want to scare an already spooked mother. I will say that running around town on a Friday or Saturday night like a bored 17 yr old will do when he is looking for some excitement is alot more dangerous most of the time. If he is hard headed and independent like you say then he will probably do the same thing I would of done at his age if my parents told me I could'nt hunt because it was too dangerous. I would of bowed my neck, went to town and showed them dangerous. A kid that age is going to find something exciting to do and there is not much we can do about it. It's part of growing up. All we can do is try to guide them towards the excitement that will get them in the least amount of legal trouble. Hog hunting is not as dangerous as some people make it just because they were'nt using their head  and not near as dangerous as some make it out to be when they tell their stories. I am also protective of my children and there are times when we get on a bad boar that I still want to grab him and throw him in the fork of a tree so that he can't get hurt but he weighs 160 pounds now and I don't think my back could take it ! ;D I promise there are alot more dangerous thing on the streets than their is in the woods and I would rather mine be in the woods drinking water with his buddies and looking for hogs than be on the road drinking beer with his buddies and looking for something else. There is not much to do in a small town at night other than drinking, drugs, chaseing girls or looking for a fight and all those lead to bad trouble. Except for maybe the girls, no I take that back, girls can get you in more trouble than anything ! ;D On a serious note, I think I would just threaten him and say that if he does'nt use his head then you will not let him go anymore. It does'nt sound like he did anything wrong in this situation though. It was someone elses fault for not knowing their dog and that can happen and there is not much you can do about it. I would just thank GOD that he is alright and still threaten him !

  Your son is responsible if this was a true guide trip. He was there as an agent of the outfitter. Hope he heals up fast. If the guy he was helping doesn't show much concern cut your loss now.

idk what to tell you to do but hope your boy gets to feelin better

The "guide" is 100% responsible. He let a client turn loose an unproven dog that went straight to the mules and then it latched on to your boy's neck!!! That dog would have never left the woods.

Wow!  As I was reading this I truly thought it was a joke and I was waiting on the punch line.  Glad your son is OK.  That could have been so much worse.  Use it as a life lesson opportunity.

I think the guide and the guest who owned/released the dog are legally responsible for any lingering damages your son encounters.

X2

X3....... Pure stupidity on a guides part.

I remember those days... there was never a hunt we turned down. Its a good lesson for your son. He needs to learn to grill the people he is hunting with to know exactly what is going on ahead of time. If they don't like it oh well.  

Glad he is ok.

  Sounds like a heck of a wreck!! Hope your son is alright. He learned a valuable lesson. Hope the guide did also. I have taken quite a few newbies hunting myself. New people and new dogs are a bad combo to a hunt. When I take new people with me, I never take any dogs with me but older seasoned dogs.

some one was real retard. things like that don't just happen. I've been hunting dogs and doing dangerous work all my life. I don't believe for a minute a dog just goes after a mule like that without any warning signs. Things of that nature happen from pure negligence period! If thats really what happened somebody needs to quit guiding hunts or get sued. I would have killed that dog immediately.It makes me mad just reading it. May not  be the whole story though. sounds like a cover up story but I don't know your son.
 

X100
 I hope for a speady recovery for your son and this doesnt brake his spirit, but sounds like he is still high spirited, but a concusion could have happened with the sudden stopage of his brain inside the skull. he might want to get an MRI just to be on the safe side.

glad son and all are ok     the owner of the dog should have put it down   from what u  said  it could have been a lot worse!

Ma'am,

Jadg hit the point.  You hvae to believe and prove negligence....negligence is the key word.  If the outfitter is a responsible outfitter and guide they understand negligence.  If the guide was "just a guy" earning a few bucks and he does not have the competence to be a true guide, you stand little ground for any claim. 

I am glad your son is okay.  I think the best thing to do is talk to your son and make him realize that he cannot trust just  anyone.  Every young man must be responsible and recognize when a situation could go bad.  I persoanlly ask new hunters and new doggers a lot of questions.  If you are a new dogger or a new hunter and you go with me, I call the shots period.  In most states at 17 year old is still a minor and should be attended to as such.

couldn't have said it any better

Thanks for your comments. Not looking to sue anyone. It was a freak accident. I wanted to hear comments because I didn't want to look at it one sided as a parent. I thank god he is ok and he will continue to hunt he just needs to look at the whole situation. I would disagree about the comment about the dog not intentionally going after a running horse. Any inexperienced dog can trash on anything if not trained properly. But a persons throat???unfortunately I had to share this story. But I also hope that some of these young hunters realize just when you think nothing can go wrong just that quick it can. If he got hurt by a hog I think I would feel totally different. That is just my opinion neither right or wrong.

it is not the dogs fault...matter of fact a good hunting dog is gamy and will run cows horses donkeys and mules if it hasn't been exposed and broken from doing so...because this type of dog just needs to see a pig and it will bay it or catch it...the fault lies with the owner first for not knowing this or breaking the dog from off game...the guide is also at fault for not asking the right questions to the dogs owner...

but since your son is going to be ok I would chalk it up as good experience and just learn from it...and when I was twelve the pin fell out of the trailer hitch and it stopped abruptly and I went flying in the air and lost a part of my lower lip not to mention a large black bruise on the side of my face...at 14 I got run over by a 2039 4x4 john deere...I never blamed anyone I just chalked them up as accidents...

don't know how it happened but I meant a 4x4 3020 diesel john deere...

Reuben... it's not the dogs fault for latching onto the boys neck???

I understand the chasing the mules... but there's no excuse or second chances for something like that.

well...I would have shot the dog...but I was thinking the dog bit and let go...and if the dog was broken off of off game this accident would not have happened...

the owner of the dog should have put the dog down before this accident if the dog showed tendencies of people aggression previously...

this evening down the street from me a young pit bull cross is let out in the evenings and this dog almost bit a kid riding a bike down the street...I got in my truck and went down to make sure it was the same dog...the owner has been talked to by animal control twice about this dog and I will call them personally in the morning...I can't stand stupid people who allow this type of dog to run loose...

Catch him send him to Texas for training ( that's where all wanna be hog dogs go from my house)
 and take it to the grave with you. A human aggressive dog is a waste of air.

Going to grab a hog hands and arms may get a grab from a dog. But to cathch a person by the neck. If my dog catches a person at a bay I my put that dog down. If your dog catches me by the neck not even at a bay I would put your dog down. I would not hunt with the person that brought that dog either.

Now I think boys and dogs like to hunt. I would not punish the boy. He did not do anything wrong. That was all the dogs and whoever brought them. I don't think you have to tell your son anything. I think he just learned a whole heap real fast. He most likely doesn't want to talk about because he is still processing everything. Women like to talk while they think. Guys like to be quiet and think. I have to tell my wife that all the time. Give him his time. But saying he can't hunt is like saying he can't chase girls. It is just in a boys DNA.

Glad your son is okay.

That dog needs to be SHOT.

Knock on wood, I've caught a few hogs and NEVER had this happen yet. If or when it does, I don't know exactly how I'd ACT, but I can tell you I know how I'd REACT.

i hope your son is ok ,and im real sorry for laughing about it

x2

ran dogs my whole life, mostly hounds. started using catch dogs about 7 yrs ago and new that one day I'd get bit. Last month it happened while pulling a hog out of a muddy pen. Had just broke the dog off,  and I slipped. My leg went inbetween the dog and the hog. Dog realized what he had done almost faster than I did. Not the dogs fault, it was mine.
 In your sons case sounds like a poor dog owner, didn't know his own dog.

You said the guy just bought the dog, first and foremost I am glad your son is okay, second if it had been my dog I don't care what I spent on the dog he would have never walked out of the woods if you get my meaning. Any type of aggressive behavior towards humans or livestock  doesn't leave much hope for the dog in my yard. We have owned all types of hunting dogs and I have luckily never had that happen. It is both previous owner and new owners fault for not doing what apparently needed to be done a long time ago

Crazy Dog Kennels

One of the realities of this is that the health ins. company involved, if there is one may refuse to pay the emergency claim until the responsible party pays. My son was hurt at a neighbors house and my health ins. refused to pay and I had to go after the neighbors home owners policy. These are the realities of legal responsibilities these days.