Title: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: SLacowboy on September 27, 2012, 04:07:51 pm Found these playing around on the web. I know there has been lots of discussion on this topic. Just thought it was a pretty good description of how a lead dog should work. I learned breeding from listening to older long time outstanding breeders, watching others’ successes and failures, and by using and knowing what outstanding dogs are and how they have to work. The breeder that helped me the most is Willard Bush of Milano, Texas. Willard grew up in the Llano River country, his mother went to school with Fred Gibson that wrote “Old Yeller”, his brother and cousins. He told me the story of the actual dog the book was based on, and other East Texas Blackmouth Curs that were considered legends in that country. He had over fifty years of experience breeding Cur dogs and Hounds, he worked a public job, cowboyed for the public, rodeod, hunted, trapped, and bred horses. I spent years, and hours upon hours listening and watching to learn my present breeding knowledge and technique. It is very basic and simple breeding knowledge, and the one thing he said to me was …”you have an advantage over most, you were raised on a horse with dogs, and know an outstanding dog when you see one, this is the foremost knowledge you have to have as a breeder.” Learning breeding and cowboying have one thing in common, you have to shut up, listen, watch, learn, and be patient. In breeding you must learn outstanding dogs, listen to successful breeders, listen, not tell what you think you know, watch successful breeders’ dogs and learn what makes genetics and percentages work, and watch and learn from your own and others’ success and failures. Give dogs time to prove themselves before breeding, it takes time and patience. Learn outstanding dogs, live with them and learn from them, learn every trait about them, it takes time and patience. Cowboying, you have to learn cattle, how to handle them and be patient with them. If cattle are not settled because you didn’t give the dogs time to settle them, they will split like a covey of quail. It takes time, the ranker the cattle the longer the dogs have to windmill to settle them before you can pick up, drag and pen them. It may take hours, but you must give that time, and when driving shut up and ease in on cattle, whooping and hollering distracts dogs and will stir up cattle. A soft whistle or a low quiet “ho cattle”, and a natural cow horse are the tools needed most times. Remember you are not out there to run cattle, you are out there to pen them at a walk and as quietly as possible, it is easier on them and you, your dogs and horse. Lead dogs are in control of the cattle and handling them, you are handling the dogs and they handle better when they know if a voice is raised it is directed at them and they better get back or whatever you are telling them. Both take time, patience, and a closed mouth and open mind to have success. I have a snap on my saddle, it keeps a bullwhip. My dogs are whip broke. If we are driving and the dogs are too tight and the cattle are stalled and spinning away from the dogs, I crack it once and raise my voice to hearing level, “BACK UP!” This does two things, it back up the dogs for easier driving and makes the cattle start moving. When we are ready to quit I crack it two or three times and say “GET OUT!” They quit and go to the trailer. If I need them again, I say “GET AHEAD!” and the machines are back in action. I have dogs so intense on cattle you can holler all day, throw rocks, shoot them with a BB gun, and they never know you are there, all they know is cattle, nothing else in the world exists when they are working. However, when whip broke they always hear the crack of a whip and their ears are open to your voice. IT works great for us, and whip breaking a cow dog also serves another purpose, it may save their life. If a whip broke dog gets off away from you and on cattle they shouldn’t be on, a fellow runs out and takes a shot at them, or shoots up in the air, they quit and find you or the trailer. Believe me, outstanding dogs are too hard to come by to get shot by some idiot thinking they are hurting a leather bag full of steaks. However you handle your dogs, it has to work for you and your working program. I don’t think my way is the best, it is simply the best for me. The same goes for our dogs and horses, I never brag they are the best, they suit me and the best in what I am doing. I see dogs of other breeds that are outstanding and would suit me also, however I learned a long time ago that as a breeder you have to concentrate on one breed, that genetic pool, to be successful maintaining their complete ability and improving your breeding program. How do outstanding lead or head dogs work? They find cattle, track or wind, go to cattle by sight or hearing cattle, they use one or two or all of these tools to find cattle. Once they find cattle they work from the front, stopping cattle from moving in any forward direction. They never push cattle, they stop them from the front of the set. Once the cattle stop, the art of windmilling starts. What is windmilling cattle? The dogs circle the entire set baying with every breath. A dog has to have a lot of speed and agility, quickness in starting and stopping, top end speed, and they windmill a set of cattle fast. IF a cow starts trying to break, I have dogs that will slap her across the nose as they come by, or slash her. This will usually turn most cattle back to the herd and the dogs continue windmilling. If a cow goes ahead and breaks the herd the dogs should get in front of her. Again, it takes speed. The dog must be a lot faster than the fastest cow. I want a dog to catch her nose or ear as quickly as they can. When a dog hangs a cow, it may take two or three times, she will have a deep gut craving to get in the middle of that set of cattle and stay. When a cow turns back to the set the dog should get in front and lead her back to the set, once they get back to the set the dog must forget that cow and get back to windmilling the entire set. A dog that stays after that cow or tries to cut out a cow or split the set to catch a cow are cull dogs. They have to windmill the set and be herd minded to be an outstanding lead dog. Once the cattle are settled and ready to drive you ease in and say “GET AHEAD!” The dogs get up front leading and controlling the cattle from the front end. The front to a natural lead dog is the direction the cattle are trying to move in and where me and the horse are not. If a cow tries to move too fast or run, the lead dogs should slap her to let her know they are in control. When driving, an outstanding lead dog should work the entire front of the herd, going from side to side baying with every breath and backing up slowly as the cattle push forward. Some dogs will quarter back, instead of stopping on the side of the front they drop down the front side a few cows and go back across the front and check the other side in the same manner. In handling rough rank wild cattle I love a quarter backing lead dog, they give more control on the set. A true lead dog should never circle the entire set when driving, they must stay ahead. I can control the drag. If cattle stall a dog may circle back. But as long as the cattle are moving he is up front. When turning a set you stop your horse, back off to let the cattle stop and then ease around to whatever side you need to be on to make the turn and as you start pushing, the outstanding lead dogs will adjust to the front end movement. If cattle start trying to bust like quail, back off and give the dogs time to settle them, the cattle simply are not ready to drive. Simply put, lead dogs know the front end as the direction cattle are moving, and they naturally work to stop the cattle from moving. Trap dogs, what are they, and are they natural lead dogs? No NO NO, trap dogs find cattle and push them to a corner and keep pushing and baying and fighting cattle, this is when cattle go through fences! They want to get back with the horse and push cattle or run on the sides of cattle barking. They may catch a run off, however, they want to grab a shoulder or flank or tail, they don’t get up front to stop cattle, they want to push cattle. These dogs are culls and should be culled permanently. They are worthless. I can run cattle through every fence I want to, I don’t need a worthless dog for that. On rank, rough wild cattle I cannot control that front end. I don’t care how good the horse, they will hook him, run over him and split, but an outstanding lead dog can control the front of a set and do wonders with complete control. Trap dogs are not heel dogs, they are culls that simply don’t have enough intelligence and grit to get in front. Ben Jordan in Oklahoma gave me the best answer of lead dogs I have heard. He said, “If I am in front of you fighting with a knife you may try to run over me, but after you get cut you will back up and pay attention. If I get behind you and start sticking that knife in your butt and sides, you are going to run away from me.” It is the same with cattle and hogs, that dog in front slashing and slapping keeps them from running forward. A trap dog pushing cattle from behind and slashing the back of cattle are going to run them, not control them. I learned a lot from Willard Bush, my father W.B. Wright, Red Burkhart, and Bobby Weatherford. Our breeding program shows all their influence and knowledge, and I learned from listening. I also want to thank Linda McKay for her interest in our breeding program and giving us the chance to share it with you all. I am always willing to help all breeders, breeds, beginners and long time breeder if I can. I am sorry that I am not a better writer, all I know is to write experience and knowledge the way it is in my head. Leopard breeders do have a tougher breeding task than Blackmouth breeders and others as they have to learn all the basics on genetics and how to produce the outstanding working and producing dogs as well as learn what and how to work the merle gene. It is a double edged sword. If you understand it and use it right it can and will make a breeding program, however one mistake or lack of knowledge can cut, ruin, or kill a breeding program. They have to learn it goes beyond the spotted color patterns, the glass eyes are merle genetics at work, and too much is devastating. The white is also a result of too much merling, it cancels out pigment and produces white, with devastating results in loss of sense, hearing, and sight. I do respect outstanding Leopard breeders and their dogs but also understand their difficulties. Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: Stick on September 27, 2012, 06:00:42 pm Good read thanks for posting
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: jdt on September 27, 2012, 07:44:38 pm i do beleive thats purty well true , where did you find that sla ?
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: warrent423 on September 27, 2012, 08:56:57 pm Can't be put much better than that right there. Good stuff ;)
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: hogdog05 on September 27, 2012, 09:03:45 pm Pretty good read. Staight up.
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: reatj81 on September 27, 2012, 10:17:40 pm Good read where did you find it, who wrote it? I met Mr Bush when I was around 14-15 I know his family really good people. I have herd many stories about him having an eye for dogs & horses. Wish I could have spent more time around him!
Thanks for posting. tdog you spent some time with him, give us some input... Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: SLacowboy on September 27, 2012, 10:27:55 pm After reading just about everything on here I ended up goggling random topics. Think I found this one by looking up Ben Jordan cur dogs. It was a PDF file on some site. Pretty sure was written by randy wright.
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: Circle C on September 27, 2012, 10:30:38 pm Interesting read. I don't care for the author as a person, but there appears to be some good information
in the article... Anybody know if Willard Bush is any kin to Wanda Bush? The Rodeo Hall of Fame member? She's from the Llano/Mason area, same as Fred Gipson Here's the entire text. http://www.gisthorses.com/puppies_successful.shtml Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: SLacowboy on September 27, 2012, 10:34:10 pm I thought if you read it and leave out the names and colors it was very informative. I know everyone has opinions. Just wanted to share.
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: Circle C on September 27, 2012, 11:10:01 pm Quote from: SLacowboy link=topic=58246.msg3 91561#msg391561 date=1348803250 I thought if you read it and leave out the names and colors it was very informative. I know everyone has opinions. Just wanted to share. I agree, it is an informative read, regardless of who wrote it. Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: TexasHogDogs on September 28, 2012, 01:31:07 am I can tell ya one thing just from reading that little bit . I can promise you the Ole boy knows exactly what he is talking about when it comes to breeding performance dogs !
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: hogdown on September 28, 2012, 04:43:59 am I can tell ya one thing just from reading that little bit . I can promise you the Ole boy knows exactly what he is talking about when it comes to breeding performance dogs ! Well that's more than a quote. That's a dog breeders LIFE LONG LESSON for every one, old and the young. Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: gomer on September 28, 2012, 04:10:17 pm Excellent read. Thanks for posting
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: doublel on August 09, 2015, 10:55:31 am Good read
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: warrent423 on August 09, 2015, 01:10:55 pm Head/lead cur dog = catch dog with a brain ;)Thought that was a good point he made
Title: Re: Good Read on cowdogs Post by: l.h.cracker on August 09, 2015, 09:17:21 pm Yessir I'd like to sit down with the fella who wrote that and listen.
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