EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Was in a firendly debate with a very well educated individual that I work with and he happens to be a die hard Obama supporter. During our debate we went back an forth several times and right when I was running out of time and having to move on to more work related issues he made a few comments about socialism. To which I asked what his thoughts were on socialism, his response I still have not wrapped my mind around. He replied very emphatically that socialism for the common man is a good thing...those are his words to a t. Now this is a very well educated individual that knows what and why he supports what he does. Is this really the consensus of Obama supporters and why they support him so excitedly. I'll wait on a few responses before I give my thoughts.

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Obama going to win bud get over it
He going to help our kids with collage
And the other guy wants our kids to get the money
From us that ok if we had it but some people don't have
The money I have it but other people can't get it you must have
A lot of money  I make dam good money 

What did you say???

Democrats make slaves. They said that slaves were taken care of too. Me I don't want the Government owning me. So I guess you would sell your soul for kids to go to college? There are too many college graduates. That is actually why we have some of our problems. If everyone goes to college who digs the ditches?

hogdog hunter86 do you realize you have said absolutely nothing? We know who you are going to vote for and who you think will win. But it is clear that you don't have your own opinion just barfing out what someone else told you.

I think he said he makes good $$ , that Obama will win,, and we will be putting all the obama supporter's kids through college. Boy, am i stupid,, i'm working and paying for my kid to go to school,,,

I think that's an example of the obamacation he was talking about.... ( Obama funded education )

Kinda who I was hoping would reply, and you did not disappoint. What you just said doesn't even make sense, are you incapable of even half way making a sentence that we can read and make heads or tails of? If you don't like a capitalist economy(what we barely have left in the US) then you are free to leave and go to some of the numerous countries around the globe that have socialist economies that are FAILING. The borders are currently open so feel free to leave and take the rest of your socialist endorsing friends and try out a socialist country and let us know how you like it. I provide for my family and earn my own way and am free to make more money if I have the desire I'm not limited by what the government says I can or can't have/do (yet). This country was founded on the values and freedoms that are currently being taken away daily through executive orders etc. How about you look up some of what your great messiah has done for you and then make a decision.

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                                    IN A NUTSHELL !!!!



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Socialism on paper is a real good design, but it practical use, it is the end of countries. The idea of everybody equal, minus the ruling gov and that every1 contributes to the workforce, food production and so forth. If a person needs an extra ton of corn to ensure a better yield of crops the nxt harvest will get the corn, but has to pay it back under no circumstances even if he dont have enough to make a profit. U take from the gross product and payback 2 folds and EVERYBODY works, no moochers. Greed and lazyness stops socialism in its tracks everytime.

So much agree. The problem with most people is they are taught, "be different than anyone else, but this is how you're gonna be different." If that makes any sense.

Hoghunter 86 didn't you say you work on a drilling rig? If so your the first person I know of that hnts and works in the patch that I've know that supports him. What exactly has he done for you? Has he helped hunting or the oilfield in anyway? I see that you don't like Bush and blame him for the war, I suppose Barack could have done better with 9/11? I think you may live on the wrong side of the mason/dixon line.

Looks like you need some high school or junior high before you start talking about "COLLAGE".  LMAO....  It's "College".  Not to mention any other fragments you put together made sense either.... 

Im glad when we go to sleep at night, The Lord Almighty is in control.

Say whats on your mind boys I dont give a dam I got money and I give it to anyone who need help
I work hard for my money I live by god and help anyone I can love to hunt but what ever all
Say it goes in one ear and out the other I got the I don't give a dam going on in my mind that
The only thing wrong with me I like this stuff we went from dogos to pits to Obama keep
Talking I have nothing better to do today but this and I'm a work what do yall think about that
It's hard making $250,000 a year but I try

Haha can 250 k a year buy you something to help with you grammer? Jk :laugh:

Just out of curiosity what do you do for a living??? ???

Wow!!!  Well Obama may win but he damn sure won't get my vote.  EPA junkie and trying to take the 2nd amendment away.  That's what Obama is doing for you!!!  No support for him from me.

Gonna jump on in to this one. The bigger issue is if obama and romneys the best our country can come up with were screwed as a country. To me its like picking which STD youd rather have. One hand youve got a president that promises the world (right or wrong its up to you) but for the past 4 years hasnt done really anything he said he would do and doesnt look like he will in the next 4 years. Then you got the other side, romneys about as lively/awkward as my little girls ken doll. Now hes a money guy and thats what we need to fix some problems. But the ole stormin morman just doesnt strike me as a world leader lol.  either way i dont like either of them but im just one of those crazy guys in the mountains with alot of guns and dogs lol. cheers

Hey I need some help man, sorry I upset you, can you give me 20-30 G's?  I would like to put it into paying my truck off.  I NEED the help, so thank you. 

Offshore engineer correction drilling I'm 31 living the life

So are you going to give me the 20-30 thousand I need or what???  I need to know pretty soon.

you dont have a job im talking about old people and the sick kids that need to fix there home or get
 help with doctor bills stuff like that hell come cut my grass i pay 250 to cut it all i have is a front yard to cut it takes about 1 1/2 hours to cut

 :o

I'll do it!!!   If you let me mow it once a week, I'll be able to buy a Dogo in only 2 months!!!  ;D

Lol. This is gunna get good.  Your hell when well

Hmmmm.  I guess I will be your huckleberry.

This is not the concensus of why people support him.  Much less "excitedly so".  Like all groups of people, I think there are many reasons.  Some support him because they believe he is the better choice.  Some support him because in their view he is the "lesser of two evils".  Some support him because they dislike Romney.

I am an independent voter.  I have never voted a straight ticket.  I don't care much on the state/local level about party affiliation.  I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.  I do not believe that most voters fall into the false dichotomy of only the left or right.

From a fiscally conservative viewpoint, both the Rs and the Ds overspend.  It is sooooo annoying.  I think either candidate will continue that, just as their predecessors did.

From a socially liberal viewpoint, I do not like the positions Romney has taken.  I much prefer those of Obama.

So I think I will likely vote for Obama.  It is a moot vote.  I live in Texas.  I hope that explains that not all those who support Obama support him because of socialism.


Now let's discuss socialism.  That term is one who evokes fear in most of us.  So I think we need to first define it.  I googled and couldn't find one common definition.  The most common aspects I could find were that "socialism is in one form or another the use of taxpayer funds being used collectively to benefit society as a whole, despite income, contribution, or ability".  I don't know that I agree with that definition.  Under it, such group things that are beneficial to all society are socialism.  That would include the military, highways and roads, police, fire depts, postal service, garbage service, prisons, public schools  ...  and those are the ones I can think of at this moment.

I think there is another category that technically falls under "socialism".  Social Security comes to mind.  But since I have paid into it (involuntarily) for 35 years and soon will be able to benefit from it  ...  I don't advocate its dismantling.  I am annoyed/offended that in the 60's, congress passed a law that changed the way it was accounted for.  They count it both as a liability (it is a separate fund afterall) and yet they count it as revenue for budgetary purposes.  So when they say they ran a budget deficit of $X, that has been reduced by the excess social security funds that they issued a treasury note for.  No other entity in the world does that, to my knowledge.

Then there are the safety nets.  This is where I think it gets tricky as to where to draw the line.  We have medicare for the elderly.  That is socialism.  But I support it.  There is something about casting aside someone who is elderly that bothers me.  By the same token, I do not support the common practice of heroic procedures for the elderly.  Where to stop is difficult to agree upon.  

Food.  I grew up poor.  I starved.  I went to bed hungry too many times.  So I may view this somewhat differently.  I think children need to be assisted at times.  To allow children to starve in order to lower my taxes is not palatable to me.  I do think this area is abused by adults, but that does not change regardless of who is president.

I think there are socialist programs that need to be revised or eliminated.  Among them  ...  government agencies such as the EPA, FDA, etc.  Corporate welfare & subsidies, the farm subsidies, the tax code, support for PBS, museums, symphonies and arts, etc.

In summary, we live in a sound bite world today.  Yet when the dust is settled, most of the issues are way more complex than can be resolved with a sound bite.

Ha, I might believe a directional driller. I defitenely don't believe your any kind of engineer, my 4 yr. old niece has better grammar and sense than you. How do you survive out there with the roughnecks knowing you support Obama?

Oh no, I've got a job and a very good one, but you specifically said you would help anyone that needs help.  I need help, I don't want to pay for it by myself, that sucks I will never get a Dogo doing that on my own. :'(  Please help me Mr.  I can't drive your way to mow your yard if I can't pay for the truck lol.  Can I get it in advance?  Just pay me up front and I will figure out everything else later on down the road. 

Now that's funny right there....  My papa quit scholl in the 6th grade because his father got hurt and became disabled, he was the oldest so he went to work, he can write better than this fella shows....  Hes 76 now and can prob. use a computer just as well too. 

   After the first of the year The EPA ( Environmental Protection Agency ) will be turned loose by Obama to reak havoc and impose extreme regulations on the Operators ( that is the companies that pay to have the wells drilled and where you get all your money). These regulations will make it to expensive for most of the Operators to keep working. I don't know what your trade is in the oilfield but it will affect everybody from the top down. If the Operators do not work then neither do we. These regulations will also affect the coal industry, steel industry, manufacturing industry, electric companies and anything else that is deemed to put off carbon emissions which includes automobiles ( horseless carriages ;D ) and heavy equipment. Maybe you should try talking to some of the owners and operators of the companies that sign our checks and get their opinions on what will happen to the oilfield if Obama gets reelected. It might change your mind although I doubt it. You seem to be more worried about free college for your kids and getting taken care of even though you admitted that you make $250,000 a year, your words. Just remember that nothing in this world is free and a college education is no good if you can not find a job and I believe you will see the cost of Obama sooner than later.

                                            To everybody else.

   I hope and think that Romney will win but four more years of Obama might actually be a good thing for America as bad as I hate to say it. I believe that we could recover from the effects of four more years, it would be hard but possible. The good that it would accomplish would be that it would open the eyes of most people when it comes to the true Democrat party. They would realize that the Democrat party is not the same party that it was 15 to 20 years ago or atleast they are not trying to cover up their agenda and hide their hard left socialist thinking as much as in the past. I believe that four more years of Obama would be the death of the Democrat party, they just do not realize it yet. I believe that alot of the " 47 % " want to work and would if given the opportunity and four more years of high unemployment and record debt and deficits will light a fire under those people and make them jump ship. They will finally see that socialism does not work. It will not be to late like it is in Europe because there will be enough of us left that remember what this great nation was founded on and what it was like before Obama. Just stock up on ammo in case we have to fight the ones that do not jump ship.

When ever people say they are ok with socialism. Grab what ever they have and divide it between the two of you... Works great if the ate eating or drinking some thing. Then say... Good, so you mind this.

i cant wait to see noah and his reply to this rolleyes

So I assume you are opposed to social security and medicare.  Most of us have family members that utilize these programs.

Are you opposed to the tax subsidies that farmers and the oil industry get?  I can't think of one area that has more socialism than our current tax code.  It is bought and paid for.

How do you feel about the new highway from Austin to I-10?  The government condemed the land and the allowed a private company to build a toll road.

I was very tough for me as a kid...if I told you you might not believe it... :) so I am very sensitive to the needs of children and the elderly...and I always said I don't mind paying my share of taxes...well at 57 I don't have much time left to get ready if I am to maintain my standard of living...my goal is the same and I failed on the first attempt but the goal is the same but how to get there has changed...

but here lately I keep thinking about all the wasteful spending that the government keeps doing with our tax money...to fix the problem they need to get on the same retirement plan the average American gets to have...

My alarm was going off at 3 am and I was working 6 days a week 12 hrs. a day for a good while...but I normally work 48-54 hours a week anyway but usually get up at 5 a...don't get me wrong...I do appreciate my job but when I am driving to work early in the morning I think about those who don't go to work that are able to do so...and I have been paying my taxes faithfully without complaint...

Today I paid taxes on my 10 acres, right at 1000 dollars and right at 1500 dollars for my house taxes...just paid over 3000 dollars on house insurances, oh....and 400 dollars for flood insurance...then I get taxed at the gas pump and when I buy dog food and clothing I get taxed and..........it is never ending....everyone wants a piece of my pie...  ???

to me most systems are set up with good intentions but then greed sets in and in a few years it goes south...some of the systems that are meant to help the needy are are great if you are truly needy but these systems need to be set up to help people get out of the rut and not keep them there...

I choose to do what I do because I want to have things but I also want to lead my family through example and my hope is that they rise higher than I...

I bet they get real mad if you reach over and take a bite out of their sandwich. ;D
I really do not believe that Obama wants a socialist America. He is after a world under one Govt. and he wants to be king of the world !

I wish to ask the Obama supporters and those that may vote for him a question. Let's hull 'er down to the cob here boys,.....this is my question: How can you support/vote for a man that refuses to salute the American flag?

His Beliefs and what he stands for and supports in general is y i will never vote for him.

Really?  That is your "issue"?  He does/has saluted the American flag.  I am unaware of any time when he has refused.

The government at most levels wastes tax dollars.  Regardless of who is the president.

You do realize that your homeowners insurance is not a government program.  It is a commercial enterprise.  You are not required by the government to have it.

Firemedic, it is simple, they are communist sympothizers. A person who refuses to place their hand over their heart during the national anthem aint much of an smerican, muchless a human and the same to hus supporters.

 I'm for god family and guns, I still can't see why people will vote for someone who will take your money and freedoms, but what do I know, I'm a high school dropout that has to labor for what little money " the man" let's me take home, Maybe I should try that koolaid to better understand ?

I've learned that people who have money don't keep reminding other people that they have it. Also if you have so much money, why does it bother you that people pay big bucks for dogos?

Obama is not smart and has spent so much money that we are bankrupt. We are 16 trillion dollars in debt. Most people have no idea how much a trillion dollars is which is why it does not bother them. As much money as they are printing now you will not be able to make enough money to pay for anyting. It will be like Germany in the 30s.

Here is how much a trillion is: If you started the day Christ was born and had a million dollars you could spend 1,000.00 per year for a little over 3 1/2 years. If you started the day Christ was  born and had a billion dollars you could spend 1,000.00 per year for  over 3,000 years. If you started the day Christ was born and had a trillion dollars you could spend 1,000.00 per day for over 31,000 years. A million dollars compared to a trillion is like comparing a postage stamp to a football field.

He has already said that he intends to raise your taxes starting the first of the year. It will be at least 2,000 extra per year and probably more like 4,500 per family.

If you are in the oil business Obama has his sights set on you.

I don't know how to edit but I need to correct the previous post. A billion dollars is as follows: You can start at the birth of Christ and spend 1,000.00 per day for over 3,000 years.

No bud we were long in debt  way befor Obama got in there
First of all thanks to the republican were in the $hit now he just
Trying to get us out and now I don't care how much people pay
For a dog I just wanted to no why well not a dog but a pup  and one more thing I didn't go
To college I work on a rig on the floor then derecks then a driller
And move up ever year I just was blessed

MIKE... Can we please stop the political issues on here? At least til hotdog 86 answers my question, I really NEED the money....

Now I been drinking but surely that's not why this is so hard to read? Lol

To answer your question... YES.
 
Social Security is the biggest scam the govt has ever pulled on the American people. If you took the money they take from you, threw it in just a plane index fund that follows the market, you would average more money monthly off the interest, and the lump sum would yours to pass on to your heirs.

I am opposed to tax subsidies for every one.

I am not for eminent domain for any reason.

I did it with a guys beer on a big group dove hunt this year. It was about to get rowdy... ;D He was POed. :D

THIS SAYS IT ALL

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Well I am a disabled vet and Obama has screwed me more directly than any other President. He says he wants to help. But he made my disability payments more accessable to the civil court system. Before if I went to court nobody would know about it but now it right there for the lawyers so they can take it. If you think one party is so much better than the other then you need to go read some things for yourself. I guess you think a 12 year old child should be able to get a medical procedure without parental permission or even notification? What if your little girl went to get an abortion and ended up unable to have children or died because of an abortion that you never even knew about? You might have supported her decission but you were never even told. That is what the Democrats fight for.

But let's get real for a minute. The Democratic Party is controlled by a bunch of rich elite people. The Republicans just have a different group of rich elite people. Neither one of them give a crap about the common person. They only want power and control. They will tell you whatever it takes for you to give it to them. Go read the Constitution and then compare that to what the government actually does. All politicians suck and are worse than an STD. You can take meds to get rid of most STD's but to get rid of a politician you have to get another politician. This election is by far the worst ever. I really do not want either of them. I have never ever been so disappointed by the Presidential nominatons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyyUBtGmMDc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Obama didn't really get Bin ladden....it was a scam, I saw him and 2 Pac at a party in the hood the other day!!!

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Just vote, one way or the other. The world is never the same. I came up in hard times ,and we just had to adapt to the life we had. We never had alot of money, and i dont think it was because of any president. With that out the way, life is what you make it out to be. So stop talking about some one screwed you ,and adapt to life. This is not to one person, it's to every one.    

Agreed!!!!

 

Since when is it the govt's responsiblity to pay for my kids college?  I don't make that much money, but the year my daughter was born, we signed up for a college fund.  No different than taking out a loan on a car.  By the time she was ten years old, her college tuiton was paid for.  Same with my second child.

And if you think the govt is paying for it for free, wake up.  I'll be paying your kids tuition as well.  No thanks, I have two children that I chose to have, I DIDN'T choose to have yours.

That's the difference between Repulicans and Democrats.  Repulicans believe in earning what they want, Democrats believe the government should just give it to them.

Just like our freedoms, those weren't given to us.  Our military has bled for those freedoms for over 200 years.  Freedom is a privelege, not a right.  And don't we enjoy things more when WE earn them?  Free stuff we tend to hold in least regard, but when it's your money that bought and paid for it, it means something and you take great pride in it.

You are mistaken. Obama has added more to the national debt than all the presidents in history combined. He could not run a sno cone stand and make it turn a profit if he had free ice and syrup. This guy is just an empty suit. If he was white and named John Smith nobody would have ever heard of him.

I have never met a veteran that fought for socialism.

DSmith, u hit the nail on the head. There is no pride anymore in americans, its who can turn a profit with the least amount of energy spent and at the cost of freedom and rights.

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Anybody that is considering voting for Obama please comment on this!

Mike, that is a nice, concise listing.  The problem is it is selective.  You list only the clearly good investments that Bain made and only the bad ones the government helped.  You don't list the other end of the spectrum for either side.

one thing about the internet...too much crap that gets posted...so I don't pay much attention to the pictures and signs, including the data posted because it is mostly propaganda from the opposing side that is posting...and like RL is saying...it is selective data which makes it inaccurate...

I am not picking sides on this just stating facts...

Please name the comapnies that Bain was involved with that lost money. I know that there are some but some of them were in such poor shape they we not going to make it anyway.

I am not going to listen about Obama saving GM and Chrysler. They should have went into controlled bancruptcy. The taxpayer will NEVER get our money back out of those companies. All Obama wanted to do was give the union a shot in the arm so they would vote for him.

Obama has NEVER had a real job where he had to get up and go to work like everybody else. He has Never ran a company and doesn't have a clue about paying taxes or making payroll. Name me ANY company he run.

Gasoline is more than double than when he took office. How is that working out for everybody? He has done everything in his power to hurt the oil companies and that will affect our entire state. My groceries are up 30% from last year and rising. The bottom line is that he is incompetent.

obama was a nieghborhood organizer in his state , that's about it  lol  and he did such a goood job with the south side of chicago . anybody with fair skin wanna go to the south side or hell anybody  ?

Oboma is the worst president that we have ever had.  In my opinion, if your for Oboma then your ignorant!

Chicago is on pace to have more people killed by being shot than our soldiers in the middle east. To solve the problem they are taxing guns and were going to put a .05 cent tax on bullets. They backed off of the tax on bullets but kept the tax on guns. I am sure the "gangstas" are standing in line to pay that tax.

i'm sure the gangsta's pay their taxes . after all it's added to the price when they fill out their background check at the register .
   lmbao all day  ;D

 if their killing each other off that bad, why dont we let the airforce drop a couple hundred tons of daisy cutters, cluster bombs and bunker busters once they go underground. another way would be to poison thei drug supply and hopefully get them all before they relize whats going on.

It is amazing the ones that still drink the koolaid  nobama is still dishing out , nothing is ever his fault.


The last three budgets fall squarely under Obama. And, during that time, the federal government ran up deficits of "$1.3 trillion in 2010, $1.3 trillion in 2011, and about $1.2 trillion in the fiscal year that ends Sept. 30—for a total of nearly $5.2 trillion in deficit spending,"

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I can't wait until Wednesday morning !

Easttexashogdoggers,
It is a shocking to read some of the comments on this thread.  I am genuinely afraid for my children and their children when I see the English language and knowledge in general are in a downward spiral.     
How is it that anyone who enjoys the freedom of owning guns, dogs, trucks, ATV’s, boats, and homes can support a Liberal Democratic Party.  The Party has changed so much over the past 25 years that I cannot understand how any free man can support its increasingly socialist view of government.  Both parties are changing rapidly and neither has a clearly defined outline anymore.  The Republican Party has even started nominating men who are “semi” conservative, in order to retain votes and reach all of the “demographics”.  Obama landed in office because of a Republican Candidate who didn’t act or vote like a true conservative.  Anne Coulter said that a Republican Presidential Candidate that openly claims to be a true conservative (Christian) has never lost an election in the U.S.  Not once in the history of the U.S.!  I believe her because I have only seen a few in my lifetime. That tells me the majority of the U.S. is and always has been made up of good moral people.  It also tells me we are too fat and lazy and consumed with our entertainment to do anything to preserve this Great Nation. 
Obama isn’t the only problem we face as a Nation.  Our Constitution is being altered and we as a people are complacent.  Democrats and Republicans are both responsible for the division. I did not understand how far we have fallen, until travelling outside the U.S.  I see how we appear to the rest of the world, and it is not good.  We have children graduating high school that cannot write a complete sentence.  Children in Norway, China, Indonesia, and Brazil study and revere our history and our language.  These kids literally know more facts about the U.S. than most adults in America.  Our national debt and weak Dollar are the laughing stock of the world and make us vulnerable to both military and economic attack.  I have been told more than once in foreign countries that Americans are rich, lazy, and conceited.  How do I argue with the truth?  I can only try to "change" their view of me for the better.
We are no longer “the shining city on the hill” that Ronald Reagan spoke about.  I believe he will go down in history as one of the greatest U.S. Presidents of all time.  Say what you will, but in the end he did what was true and right and moral.  Ronald Reagan is someone who actually “changed” the world for the better.
It’s time for some of you to grow up.  You must decide if you are going to allow others to think for you, or take responsibility for your own lives.  I feel pity for the life some of you younger guys are about to live, and shame for not having done more to ensure the future of this Nation.  I have seen poor and if you have a truck, dogs, and a smart phone, you are not poor.  You are blessed to have been born in The United States of America and too dumb to realize it.     
I don’t consider myself better than anyone else.  I am as much to blame for the situation this nation is in as the next person.  Vote however you want to.  Think for yourself, but take responsibility for your decisions and where they lead you in life.  Take ownership in our countries problems and realize we are all responsible for “change”.   Remember what you did twenty years from now, face your children and grandchildren and tell them what you did to ensure they could live in a free republic society. 
At this point in life I don’t care so much about what people think, so take my comments however you like.

Dan, thank you for putting my thoughts, and beliefs into words.

As far as im conscerned the democrats are the enamy , they are aginst every thing we stand for and believe in same as taliban to me.

good post dan !

  Im shocked at all of the school yard bullying on here.

 There were some very good politcal points made on this thread. But its really no ones business who anyone votes for.  Im glad that I live in a country where everyone gets a vote and gets to vote how they choose, reguardless of what anyone else thinks of their descision. Dogging one another over who they are voting for is childish. If you are concerened about who gets elected then just go vote. Bullying people to vote one way or another is tactics used in third world countries. Not the United States.

 The best way to sway people to vote the way you wish is to educate them about the issues and facts. Not to put them down for their descision. Badgering people only makes them put up walls and not listen.

The problem with people voting for Obama is that it affects me and my family. If it just affected the idiot that voted for him I could care less. However, that is not the case and my taxes are going to go through the roof if he is re-elected. My grand children will never be able to achieve the american dream but be slaves to the state.

Obama lays all of this out in his books if you will just read them.

My son lives in New York and I was planning on going up there to visit him and take him some of his firearms. I get to checking on the concealed carry reciprocity agreements. Forget about Illinois, Mass., and New York. It matters not that I have a permit I am not allowed to have a pistol anywhere in my possession in the state.

 i agree with mrs. dj on having the right to choose, but i tend to agree with hogdog mike more. if it only affected the few, i would have a problem with the idiot getn reelected, but he will affect us ALL, not just the dumb 1s.

RL, you are right in saying that these show the far ends of the spectrum as far as investments go but I challenge you this, whose money did the investing? With the amounts of money Obama invested in these companies you would think they would have a little bit left they lasted less than 3yrs and had not millions but billions of dollars worth of taxpayer money invested and now there is nothing left to show for it. So what a private company made a few bad investments that may have added up to a couple million of their own personal money on a hope that the company would turn a profit. That's a couple companies that didn't make it over the many that have turned good profits. Again it wasn't taxpayer money in the first place that was wasted on bs"green" companies that failed one after another taking billions of taxpayer dollars with them. Another tip on that someone got the money from those poor investments...that kind of cash doesn't just disappear without somebody getting some thicker wallets.

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 When was the last time a president Helped us?
 No one is President for the love of the country, it is about power and money.
 The internet is full of made up crap from both sides, sad that it is very hard to even know the truth about one side or the other.
 I really hope I am wrong but I see Obama going another four years in office.

 unfortunately, i agree with mike, i see him for another 4yrs. if so, i see a flag flying upside down for those 4yrs. this country is in dier distress and has been overrun by anti-americans.

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that the democratic liberals in California  took away the right for hunters to hunt bear and bobcats with hounds in California. I know that our country has bigger issues than hunting with dogs. Just food for thought.

I think everyone below the mason dixon should their own president and let those yanks screw themselves. Jus sayin

Thoughts
Do you hunt?
Would you like your children & grandchildren to have the right to hunt?
Are you employed by a state agency?
Is your employment tied to the oilfield?
Does your employment depend on a strong or growing economy?
Are you a Christian, do you believe the USA was founded on Christian values?

The democrats are trying to take away our rights to hunt.  They are trying to take our guns.  If they get our guns they have us as their slaves, with no way to defend ourselves.
If you are employed in any of the ways that I listed above, be ready to be unemployed!   They are going to stop the fracking of the oil wells, which will stop the drilling, the oil drilling that is taking place across the USA depends on the fracking of the wells for the production, which in turn will stop the economy.  If you work for a state agency you will probably lose your job, because there will be no tax revenue to pay your salary!   Our economy in Texas will be in one hell of a bind!  And then we can buy all of our oil from the Middle East, which will drive fuel prices up, and make the Muslim countries that want to do away with the USA richer.
Obama is a Muslim!  Muslims believe in killing anyone that is not Muslim, at any cost!   I am a Christian, I hunt, & I own guns, enough said!!!!

I contend that is because of government welfare programs.  They are called "farm subsidies".  It is because Iowa is the first primary so everyone backs the ethanol programs that take more energy to produce the ethanol generates.  Our laws requires that corn, which is a primary food block for many of our foods is diverted to create energy.

That is as useless as me stating "If you're for Romney, then your ignorant".  When you promote your view by insulting the people you are trying to convince  ...  you will never get your desired result.

Plus the value of the dollar is lower. It takes more of them to purchase a product.

There is some truth to that.

There are three things Obama wants to do. Increse Taxes, Increase Social Programs, raise the Debt

IF you look at the facts and history, increasing taxes and all these social program has never helped an economy. Just here in the US. The states with the highest tax rates are the poorest. Ex: California As opposed to Texas who is doing fairly well compared to most.

The same is true world wide. Canada is kicking butt and taking names. They have the lowest taxes in... can't remember if its north america or western hemisphere or what. Had you owned canadian money the value of it has gone up.

You can not sustain these social programs. Just look at Greece and all these other places.

No where is debt ever good. Especially in the amount the US has. Debt adds weakness and risk.

So if its not ignorance what is it? Just blatantly ignoring the facts? These are not Republican talking point... these can all be looked up. This is not word game to make some thing look one way or another... its flat out math.

The other problem with Socialism is every ones business becomes every one elses problem. You do drugs and we have to send you thru rehab on our taxes its our problem. You buy lottery tickets when your on welfare its all our problem. You don't want me all up in your business... don't take my money.

This is a "false dichotomy".  Enough said.



While I tend to agree with this statement, I think they actually do.  Both have the clear goal of being against whatever the other party does or supports.  This varies by day.  So they are both acting like wind turrents.


There is an honesty and sincerity about your post that I appreciate.

A voice of reason.  Thank you.

I agree with your sentiment.  But it is like much in life, everyone wants the "other guy" to be subject to those rules.  How many oil companies want those rules applied to them?  They lobby hard and receive huge tax subsidies  ...  yet turn around and argue they are only responsible to shareholders interests.

Farmers demand subsidies yet scream about all of the other welfare programs.  And they don't want you "all up in their business".  They would be quick to tell you that they are an independent business, how hard it is, and that they must have the farm subsidies. 

Heck, I am even guilty.  I navigate the tax code for a living.  So on some level, I don't think I want it simplified.  I probably want it even more complex. 

Too often, we all only see things from our own skewed perspective.  It is darn easy to be a hypocrit without even trying.

I agree it's very hard. My son was in Pre-K. I told his mom and the school that he had no business in that program. They purposely did not count my income and only used his mothers. It's rediculous.

There are a lot of people on these programs who don't need to be but do it because its available. Why not... I'm paying for it might as well use it. I don't blame them. These systems cause that thinking. It's kind of the same with O&G... If every one else is getting subsidies why shouldn't we.

My son lives in New York but no longer NYC. Last year he paid 53% of his income in income taxes which included federal, state, county, and city income taxes. This does not take into consideration the sales taxes and fees for tunnels. Just how much is fair?

I read today that if Obama is re-elected the EPA has plans to put new rules and regulations on the coal industry that will be impossible to meet. The end result will be a collapse of the industry at a cost in excess of 700 billion dollars. Gasoline and electricity will be a great deal higher. My cousin who is in the salvage business is buying equipment from the coal mines and shipping it to China and Viet Nam. They are not worried about any regulations.

My grandpa allways told me dont gripe about somethin unless
you plan on doun somethin about it.   Everybody that thinks
they know how to run this f***** up country better than the one that
Gets voted in...well please do,  otherwise it does absolutely no good
waistin ptecious air.  Im 32 yra old and ive NEVER voted,  i see no point
In it.  Atleast untill they let somebody in the runnins that makes less than
50,000 a yr.  I hope that makes sense i know how sensitive sone of you are
When yall cant make out what people are sayin.

   I call BS on that. My company makes 75% of our money in coal. I would of heard about this................

Its time to burn'em out. They are ALL criminals, no matter if the coal and O&G industry is goin belly up or not.

I think not voting can be viable.  I wish ballots had the "neither of the above" option.

How is it that anyone who enjoys the freedom of owning guns, dogs, trucks, ATV’s, boats, and homes can support a Liberal Democratic Party. 

This is a "false dichotomy".  Enough said.

RL,
Hopefully, I misunderstand your statement.
Please explain how this is a false choice.  The goal of a socialists or "Liberal Democratic Party" is to make everyone equal.  Telling young people the right thing to do is to "redistribute wealth" and reduce competition, is a lie.  Free and moral men can see right through the lie, when their liberty is threatened. 

The Liberal seeks to make the working class similar in all aspects of their daily lives.  I used examples that fit the audience here at easttexashogdoggers by listing guns, dogs, truck’s, ATV’s, boats, and homes.  These items are taken completely or regulated out of existence.  Taken by tax or taken by force it's all the same in the end.  That is what happens in when a government forces equality on it's subjects. 

I don't see the false dichotomy or false choice in my statement.  Enough has not been said.

This not put together properly.  My intention in the second paragraph was to say this.

These items can be taken completely or regulated out of existence.  Taken by tax or taken by force, it's all the same in the end.  That is what happens when a socialist government forces equality on it's "subjects".

Exactly. How can you hunt and support Obama? Its like having Jewish friends and supporting Hitler. ???

RL thank you for your ohnesty in that statement,all businesmen have number cruncher that can TELL U WHAT AND WHEN you have to spend.and ive HAD my share of bean counters .no better than the guberment .yall no most of the ways goverment works and the HOLES.if imake 500,000 gross and have 40,000 in the bank NET, you bet you azzzz yall gonna tell me spend it now  or give it to IRS. wheres the payback,me humpin my butt for ya'll is all it is.PS     the HNIC, im first in line for the the NEW CONTINTAL ARMY,lets take back our country

First, I do not support either the D or R parties.  I think both are annoying and neither reflect my values.

I do not think the goal of the D party is socialism.  I think they are more inclined to help the downtrodden.  But I do not think it is total socialism.  I do not feel they are taking away your guns (I own several), dogs, trucks, ATVs, boats and certainly not your homes.  That is the false dichotomy to which I referred.  It is not a choice of extremes.

BTW, I think the Rs also believe in helping those struggling.  I think they sometimes get portrayed as otherwise because they draw the line in a different area.  It was GWB that expanded medicare in 2003 to cover the prescriptions of 40 million elderly.  The estimated 10 year cost to taxpayers was over $500 billion.  So I don't think the Rs are as callous as they are often portrayed.

I do not believe the Obama Democratics want to take every ones guns. They do believe they think they should be able to do decide which ones you own. Same thing with hunting or any thing else. They think they know whats best for every one.

I don't want to hijack this thread into gun control.  I don't think the Ds want to "take" away your guns.  I don't think they would survive a challenge to the SC.  But I do think reasonable minds can differ on where you draw the lines on what the 2nd amendment protects.  Justice Scalia has opined that the line should be drawn at what you can bear individually.  In other words, tanks, artilllary, etc. would not be covered.  He also opined that just because you might be able to carry a SAM or a grenade launcher doesn't mean they are protected.  So I think it is just an issue of where to draw the line.

As to hunting, well, for many decades most fish and game have been considered public property.  Owned by all of us, not the individual whose property it happens to be on.  I have no real problem with that.  I think they try to manage and balance the competing interests.  Either at the federal or the state level  (most of the regs that impact us are state regs).  I don't always agree with them, but I don't know that I could balance things any better.

Alot of my friends and family work at the coal mines in Kosse, Jewett and Fairfield and they know about it. The mine in Fairfield was scheduled to be closed earlier this year and is still supposed to close, the lawyers are the only thing stopping them.

A hunting buddy works at the facility in Kosse and he told me that they have men bumping in from Mt. Vernon and Mt. Pleasant with 38 years senority. If they have 38 years senority and are laid off the facility is not long for this world.

My  cousin buys salvage from coal mines and he told me that they are closing all over in Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia. Obama stated that he has plans to put them out of business--it is on record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wzNUZVv0A0

This is out of his own mouth. Could be he has changed his mind and he does lie alot but I don't think so on this one.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIGqhJlQsC8A7r_7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=obama+youtube+on+gun+control&vid=56D8B8B270D88BB914E156D8B8B270D88BB914E1&l=3%3A39&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4617030490718215%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dpk9GwXJNM2c&tit=Obama+on+Gun+Control&c=2&sigr=11ao75ehb&&tt=b


That is not what he says.

A little down time here at work and going through old threads here. 

Just wondering if the people that were in support of him in 2012 are still in support of him today.  I did not vote for him either time, but since he was elected as our president, I prayed and hoped he would do a good job, and in my personal opinion, he is failing, and failing miserably. 

Obama has not done anything that you would call a success unless that includes running this country into more debt than we will ever get out of. Ya'll better get ready for round three.Our worst nightmare is coming. HILLORY

He may be your president, but that government housing recipient ain't my president  ;D

Great, just what this country and our military needs. A woman leader  :o
No of fence to the women, but our military has pansified with men in office. what's it gonna be like with a skirt in charge? Not saying women can't lead from the from the front, but more often than not, their emotions get in the way on the complete opposite end of the emotion spectrum.

hunter86 I dont know you from a fence post but after reading your comments I have decided that you are probley the dumbest human I have ever had the misfortune of reading after. I would rather live in these mountains under a rock as to live under Obamas thumb.  Take a lil advice It is better to sit silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

Guess  hogdog hunter86 can make all the money in the world being a offshore engineer correction drilling  that no one cares how much money he  makes   but he still trying to rub it in ppl faces and he still can't buy a brain.

I feel dumber for going back and reading his post

haha lol x2


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