EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Didn't really want to but when I was out of town for two weeks with my fathers passing one of my girls (around 10 months now) got bred. I was hoping it wouldn't take. Then when I was starting to see alot of nipple I was hoping false pregnancy (which I havnt had any experience with). She's due to drop in 5-7 days and today I noticed she is starting to get bags between her hind legs. Does this happen in a false pregnancy? (I hope, lol). She isnt swole up. Probably only gonna have 3-4 pups i guess. Well, anyway, not that big of a deal I guess. Just gonna miss training for the next couple months. PROBABLY gonna be a mixed litter by two sires. Here's what the parents are -
Can't get photo bucket to work right now but if you searched my posts you could see pictures of all of them)

Gyp - Bella - 1/2 Catahoula 1/4 Red Bone 1/4 Pitt
Sire - Jasper - BMC (bay/potential strike dog)
Sire - Zeuse - 3/4 Cat 1/4 Pitt (my lead in)

Ill keep the ones by Jasper - 1/2 BMC 1/4 Cat 1/8 RB 1/8 PB

Ill get rid of the ones by Zeuse - 7/16 Cat 7/16 PB 2/16 RB. They are gonna be great dogs. They'll be easy to get a handle on and that mix looks like a RCD with strike potential to me. Just not my style of hunting.

Anyway, should be easy to tell them apart. Ill keep y'all posted.

Oh! Fill me in on the false pregnancy details please. Really don't think that's the case here but would still like the info.

The only way to tell them apart is by dna testing the entire litter against one of the potential sires ;)

Lol... well...There will be distinguishing features. Zeuse is double glass eyed and kind of a light tan brindle w/ white trim. Bella is not even cracked (not to say glass isn't in her genetics) and grey leopard, and of course Jasper has brown eyes and is solid yellow with NO brindle in his pedigree. If I get a double glass eyed pup or a brindle pup I am pretty positive it will be from Zeuse.

Correction - Zeuse is 3/4 PB 1/4 Cat

Its still gonna be hard to tell them apart since your female is cross bred there will be lots of genes show up but that's your business .... As for false pregnancy the female can actually start lactating I could be wrong but false pregnancy is brought on by hormones ... you can palpate the females stomach and being so far along you feel the pups moving or atleast feel the pups

you gotta remember to that there are brindle catahoulas so , good luck trying to tell the diffrence , if i was you an wanted to keep some keep them all till there are like 6 months then you may could tell by the body size an stuff

how much does a dna test cost

The dogs are mixed, there's absolutely no way to tell what's going to come out and from what generation. You might have a throwback from 4 generations ago. The only way to know is DNA.

Not sure I'm understanding you. What do you mean what generation?

Your pups don't just take after there parents, they have grand parents, great grand parents, and so on.  Pups can come out looking like an ancestor and you won't be the wiser.

To a certain degree, yes. I mean.... I'm not gonna get a pup that looks like a pure redbone just because their great grandad was 100% redbone. And I know for a fact your not gonna get a double glass eyed pup when one of the parents is 100% BMC. Both parents MUST at a minimum carry the recessive glass eye gene to get a double glass eye pup.

Not necessarilly on the eyes.  I have a purebred Catahoula out of Camp-A-While Catahoulas.  My gyp is black and tan in color and has two brown eyes.  The registered parents are both leopard color and had glass eyes.

Anytime you breed two dogs, it is possible to come out with any combination of colors and sizes.  If you have a gyp that has been bred by two males, you may get lucky and be able to tell which pup came from which male, but you cant be certain unless you test DNA.  It is possible that you may have an all red pup out of the liter.

With the gyp having so many breeds of dogs in her there is literally know way you can go off of coat color. Most likely the gyp is not proven at 10 months old. It would be best to cull them all and wait til she proves herself. But to each his own. As long as they don't end of for sale as "hog dog" on the dog trade lol

Yes, it is possible that you have one come out that looks like a pure redbone. Blue eye color is a recessive gene that all dogs have. Pups can pull genetically from any dog in their pedigree.

X2 i wanted to say that but couldnt say it nicely ;)

Question... And please only respond if you have had an "experience" that gives you the knowledge to answer. I don't need opinion here, I know as much about dog genetics as most, if not more on this subject.

"Has anyone ever bred a Brown Eyed Dog with recessive blue genes (meaning one or more of the dogs in its pedigree have at least one blue eye) to a Brown Eyed Dog (with NO recessive blue genes) and gotten a pup with a cracked/walled/ or double glass eyes?

Yes

blue is a recessive in the canine genome...therefore, there isn't any canine that doesn't carry "recessive blue genes".

I got to thinking about it more and did some more research. It seems there are four ways for a dog to get blue eyes. Coat color can affect eye color, regardless of the color of the eyes in either parents pedogree. The Merle gene, they say, can cause cracked/walled eyes. Don't ask me about the others because I already forgot, lol.  So... If I'm understanding correctly... If a dog is Merle...it automatically has a chance of throwing a blue eyed pup, regardless of its own eye color or the other parents eye color or the eye color in the pedigree of either parent. Amazing stuff.

Thank you!

pick which pups you believe are from the sire you're wanting pups from, and then get them DNA tested along with the parents. to get 4 dogs DNA tested (both parents & 2 pups) will run you around $150. i had some pups tested earlier this year, and was happy with the service provided. if you want more info send me a PM and i will give you the website info and try and answer any questions.

TY, will do

Still no puppies.... I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way. To my knowledge she was locked up on the 17th of September for sure and probably a couple times after that. I think I'm gonna give her till Saturday the 24th. That should cover it shouldn't it? If no puppies by then I'm cutting the feed back, dropping the weight and back to hunting by early December.

That is the way I used to think. But I was talking with a very respected hog dogger that has been doing this longer than most of us. I don't want to use his name and pull him in. But I told him that I only breed proven dogs. He said that he does not hunt his breeding dogs. He matches dogs up based on genetics. Then sees what the pups do. If the pups don't work out he changes parents to get the pups he wants. Then he hunts the pups and keeps his breeders back to protect his lines. Just another way to think.

 that's the way smart folks do it . kinda hard  to keep line breeding dogs when your foundation dogs don't make it out the woods one day , ain't no differant than breeding roosters you get some good foundation stock and test the offspring . the brood fowl or brood dogs are tested by the quality of the offspring . you can cull anytime .

Alright... Interesting discussion but start another thread!  ;) Think its ok to start treating it like a false pregnancy Saturday? Cut feed way back, etc? Or wait a few more days? Never dealt with a false pregnancy before. By my figures she should have dropped already.

I had a gyp do just like you said. I finally got rid of the box. Went out the next day and she had the pups in a dog igloo house so I could not get in to check on them. She had full bags for about a month before she dropped. The problem I had was that I did not know when she got hooked up. She was always busting into my male's kennel. You know how them women are ;) But I figured she had full bags within a week of getting pregnant so it threw my date off when I expected her to drop. Feel from the sides to see if you can feel some pups. If she is going too long you might want to take her for an ultrasound. Things could have gone bad and your female die. Call your vet and most will do a quick ultrasound without emptying your wallet. Be sure to put her in something just in case she drops on the way.

No disrespect intended to you, but if a cur dog dies at 10months-2 yrs old on a hog in the woods, then that dog has "proven" to be a bit more careless than I'd want as my "foundation". Now, accidents do happen of course but I'd say on the whole that natural selection is helping to ensure that a carelessly gritty dog isn't spreading his careless genes around. I would hate to spend year after year after year having to always run a pack of pups because I was too proud to recognize that all of the dogs I'd been producing have a tendency to get killed by their second year of hunting.