EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Here's an awesome example of what's possible in a breeding program, when the means to do so are available.  These guys seem to really have a plan, and from the looks of the dogs, it's worked.  If you'll notice, they send most of the pups out to be hunted and "proofed" by the local Creoles(local hunters), thereby ensuring a trainable, functional breeding specimen.  The Argentinian kennel, known as "La Cocha", is inspiring in design... whether you're breeding your first litter or 500th.

Here's the link:   http://dogoargentinonores.com/marco1.htm

Although I'm still unsure of how the classic Dogo fits in to the various American hunting styles, I'd love to get to see one of these specific dogs work, just to see what that level of planning and commitment can produce over time.   

Do any of you Dogo enthusiasts have any first hand experience with any dogs from this kennel?

As an owner of 2 Dogo I must say that is awesome!Those guys have their stuff together!

That is great Standards set upon themselves. If all people would practice strict breeding standards and testing to functionality there would be alot of realy good dogs.

Problem is these days it is easy to say one thing and do another.

Now Noah this sounds like a vacation to me!
http://dogoargentinonores.com/marco1.htm

I like that all there Dogo's are 90lbs or bigger. None of the 70lbs Dogo's you see here.

I hunt with one form La Cocha pretty regularly.  Ilike the dog.  With the exception I don't think he could use his nose to find his food if you didn't pour it in front of him.  He gets ear infections so bad he basically becomes unilaterally deaf and he is actually allergic to pork (tested by vet).  He catches good though.
  The internet can make any kennel look like the greatest.  He is the only dog from their breeding I have personally used. So he may be a fluke.  I have also worked one that came through them (from my understanding) that would jump a fence to get out of the pen from a hog.

I'll stick with the stock I already have. 

"Safari"....Hog dogger's dream vacation right there for sure! ;D.... may not want to come back!.... need to brush up on my espanol.... muy pequeno...

I completely agree Kevin, you never know what you're dealing with till you see it in person.  Thanks for the report, hopefully those two are the exception....  You think the ear probs are from him being cropped (if he is)?

L3. Where do you find 70lb dogos?

So true!  I happen to know a woman that has an awesome website for her horse business, looks amazing, and really talks the talk. To people who don't know her personally, she can really draw them in and take their money...  Course now the SPCA has all the horses from her property, including clients horses. Animal Planet was there with camera rolling... Just goes to show that you can be anything on the net! ;)

I think it is an allergy issue.  Out of I believe 9 cropped dogos ive never once had and ear infection in any of them.

Kevin, I have meet alot of people that said there dogs where pure Dogo and they where 70 to 80lbs and around 23'' tall. Dont know who these dogs where bought from but the owners all said they pure Dogo's. The Dogo we hunt is around 100lbs now and I am real happy with his nose.

I have met and spoken with a some people who have visited their kennels and several others in Argentina and according to them the La Cocha guys are more hype and good marketing then substance and real good breeding. They said the majority of the argentina guys see any gringos from america or europe looking for dogos as easy marks and they will say anything to get as much $$$ out of you as they think you are willing to give them.  Honestly after hearing several of these kinda stories from various different sources I believe most of em are like a bad used car salesman ready to polish up any turd you think you might like.

     DONT believe everything you read on the internet guys .   I know a few people out there that have dogs from these kennels and like HoghunterFWD said they can make anything  " SOUND " good on the internet.     

So Marvin, other than PPC Dogos whom obviously raise some nice dogs, do you have any experience with any Argentinian functional Dogo breeders?  Breeders that actually use the breeding dogs on a daily basis?  Even if "La Cocha" is a misrepresentation,  I have to believe that somewhere in Argentina, there is a breeder that has quality dogs.

In any breed there are good and bad representatives, and good and bad breeders...personally, I'd be leary of anyone that is trying to sell me something that is talking bad about someone else who is selling the same product. The product should speak for itself. Bad mouthing other breeders would raise a big flag in my mind.

When it comes to purchasing a relatively expensive purebred dog of any breed, I'd be sure to visit as many different kennels as I could and personally lay hands on the dogs. That way you could make your own decision regarding the dogs versus taking the opinion of someone who has a vested interest in what dog you purchase.

I sent word to Dr. Nores about this topic, hopefully he gets the chance to respond....

The reason this is seems so corect is because..... it is correct, they breed the original Argentine Dogo , they r the Martinez family,I have spoken with them they r very friendly, but there prices r not very reasonable!

That's kind of what I figured.... hard to imagine the originator of the breed wouldn't still have some stock held back.....

While I'm on the subject.... I don't believe that most "American hunters" truly understand the function of the dogo....   From what I understand, the dog is not bred to be a "one out" lead in catch dog.... They are hunted in packs, more like our rough, short range curs. 

So, when I see someone complain about how a Dogo won't run in like a suicidal pit and close it's eyes, I'm not suprised.... it's just not what they were originally bred for.

Now the "Americanized Dogo" is another story.... that's the style we tend to use, so that's what we breed for....

I hope I didn't come across as downing their dogs, because that wasn't my intentions.  I was just giving my experience with the one I have used.  The dog does the job he was purchased for he just has some health issues.   
 The second dog I mentioned is a "Del Litoral" dog if I remember correctly.

Hopefully Mr. Nores will check us out and set us all straight. 
 
 Noah, check out Marcelo's board too.  He seems to know his stuff.  Just search for "Dogoman"

All breeders creates bad and good. Our selves included. The breeders who tell different,  I would be naughty and say they are lying :)
I have seen good dogs from La Cocha and I have seen bad.

NO ONE breed 100 % prefect dogs. NO ONE.

You can´t win each time, breeding is a give and take and hard selection.

The internet today is really something BAD.

Too many internet expertes on the ground who never visited people/breeders and ever hunted with a dogo, and too few who actually WORKS the dogs.

We do not work our dogs as much as we would like to, we simply have no possibility to - but we do NOT tell otherwise!
IF only breeders would be HONEST about their doings.

We try to place good dogs out with hunters to get feedback.
This is the perfect way for us to be able to select good in our breeding stock, since the feedback from a hunter is not "coloured" in any way.
The few hunts we do ourselves each year is too little to be able to base our breeding on. However it gives us a wiew over what our dogs content.

I dislike this talking about breeders, with second hand info.
PLEASE do not "talk" about breeders you havent visited and have had some experience with seeing their dogs work.

Kevin is right, he talks ONLY about his OWN experience. And this is the way it should be.

The problem with the dogo community is that some experienced breeders try  to BRAIN WASH newcommers in the breed to believe that ONLY ONE BLOODLINE functions, and that is SO MUCH WRONG.

We have dogs from several different bloodlines that works well for us.
This we believe is important to keep the dogo healthy, too much inbreeding makes the dogo just weaker imo.

From Argentina we have gotten a dog very drivy, not from a hunting kennel, but a great reproductor of drives, then we have taken home a dog who comes from a person who works them, this dog is only good as oure catchdog, not on the ground, he is not fighting other dogs but simply not build for running. He however produced some good dogs with a female selected specially for him.
Then we have taken some dogs home who were in the medium of drives, quite okay, and easy to be around, but not the most healthy dogs. Some of theese we had to put to sleep.
Then we have used some males from other Eu countries, knowing only the dogs temperaments and curage, from the combinations where we used these, we got the best dogos for hunting until now, best nose and drives. Maybe not the best showdogs, but absolutely the best workers.

Just to illustrate, you can not generalize.

It is our expereince that the EASIEST part is creating a good catchdog out of a dogo, many breeders still only focus about the fight with the boar, but there is SO much more to take into consideration, like creating a dog with NOSE build to RUN, with other dogs around and a good and loving temper with people.

The art of good breeding is SELECTION. If you can not be criticial to your own dogs, then forget about getting results with the dogo.

B

Very good points B, I was hoping you'd share your thoughts on this. 

What do you think about how Dogos were originally meant to be used for hog hunting?   

And work (as in how the dog works) is the fundamental element of the sort (selection). I would say that if you aren't objective/honest regarding your own dogs, you can forget about getting results...regardless of the breed. ;)

This is a good question, since HOW were they used originally ?

Even back to the creation of the breed, you did not see much hunters with a pack of pure dogos. From this time we mostly saw fotos with different dogs and guns too.

Today in Argentina you very seldom see hunters with dogos only.

I have been there and asked a lot of hunters who are hunting more than just a couple of times a year, and they all use different types of mixes along with the dogo.

So the info about the dogo doing it all is very limited.
This do not mean that it can not be done. I know it can. With the correct dogs.
 

I will have to look but i have some pictures Mrs. Ulises D'Andrea sent me of a dog i was looking at and the pictures showed it catching a pig and cougar "one out" not trying to start anything just sayin what Mrs. D'Andrea tld me!!!

  You mean "Mr."

I talked to a "Mrs."

I see.  Mrs. as in the wife of.

yeeeezzzzzzzzzirrrrrr!!!