EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

The "hole" in my program, is my catchdog selection.   Over the last few yrs, I have been studying many different styles/techniques/body styles/breeds/etc... 

What I have... Bucho(Dogo)

     -Advantages:   He is big(110#'s)strong as an ox, and hard as the day is long.  When he gets a grip, there is no more story... he is a HUGE reason my dogs do not get hurt much anymore.  When he is on a good hog, there is NO slingin' dogs around and gettin' chit cut after the catch.  He has a BEAUTIFUL personality, very humble dog for what he is.  Love the damn dog, I really do.  No other dog I have ever seen, would I want with me in a fight.  He has my back just as if I had another man in there with me.  Makes hunting by myself much less stressful.  Hell of a neat dog.

     -Disadvantages:   He is big, relatively slow, makes all kind of damn noise coming through brush to get to the hog... a lot of hogs break before he gets close enough to catch.  He has a hard time pinpointing a single dog baying, not sure if he might not be unilaterally deaf, he hears great.... just cant seem to pinpoint at distance unless there are multiple dogs baying...  Let's imagine he had perfect hearing however, he still makes alot of hogs break...


What I am considering... Good line of AB

      -Advantages:  Medium size dog, good hardness... quicker to hog in heavy cover...

      -Disadvantages:   Less control once caught, more damage inflicted to CD AND curs trying to help catchdog control bad hog... seen it over and over and over again...


... many variables to consider I have not come to an understanding of yet.

In you opinion why do you think this is?  Catch style or size, or a lil of both?  I have never really used CD's, just curs that would catch and every once in a while go with someone with a CD.  Been pondering what the best all around CD a while myself, because like u say...hopefully keep all of the dogs safer.

... then there is the idea of "athleticism" in a walk in style catch dog...

... HOW athletic is TOO athletic???  ...

... one advantage to a "typical" bulldog, is the fact that they are typically not track stars... if the hog does happen to break, one can usually get the dog back without worrying about the animal sticking with the cur dogs for miles... eventually catching without anyone around to help...

... this "lack of athleticism", suddenly becomes an asset in this scenario.  Yes, the hog might break... but a super athletic CD could get EVERYTHING wrecked miles away without you there to help...

... keeps me coming back to the same question, "how athletic do I REALLY want a CD to be?"

Just because you "can" do something, does not mean it is the best(safest) way...  Yes, it sure is cool to be able to tell your cur to catch... very handy some times... other times... those cur dogs get killed.  And THEN what you got?  Dead dogs.

Good cur dogs are too hard to produce to ask them to catch a bad boar hog, that is what a good CD is for.  I hear it all the time from respected friends of mine... "man we got on a bad one, he slung the catch dog/bay dogs all over the place, wrecked everything, and hauled ass."

It is a trade off.  A big, strong CD makes it much safer for all involved... at the cost of production however... but when lost time/dogs from injury is factored in... it might just average out....

When I hunt, it is always with the intention of finding the biggest, baddest sombitch on the face of the earth lol... it is what drives me.  NOTHING is worse than FINALLY getting your shot at a once in a lifetime animal like this and gettin' beat... that thought is in the back of my mind EVERY HUNT.  When I meet that animal, I do not want to look back and say I could have been prepaired better.  Everything I do is met with a good measure of "overkill" shall we say  ;) ;D... I am not hunting for the 999 pigs, I am waiting on that 1/1000... the dogs I currently hunt reflect that I feel... just tryin' to tweak my CD program just that "little bit" more HAHA  ;D

I agree, guess i didnt really need to add that last part...was just asking do you think the size of a big CD is more of an asset or or the style/smartness of one to grab an ear and suck up beside a biggun??  

Of coarse, a 120 CD that would suck up to one tight and could tip toe to a bay at the speed of sound would be perfect ;D

LOL... now THAT is the EXACT CD I'm lookin' for!!  Do you know where I can find him?    ;D

No doubt, size helps, but STYLE is just badass to see...  Bucho has that style, so cool to see... I still just shake my head trying to understand it, as he's done it since the first hog he ever caught, just plain genetics.

I think you have what you want, but you just need a little smaller framed dog. 110lbs is going to make some noise. An 85 lbs dogo of the same height can be enough dog if the style is there and you can get more speed and agility coming in. I don't see where the straight AB improves anything.

Yessir... you nailed it... just getting that size Dogo with all of Bucho's qualities in that smaller frame... have not seen the dog yet

Didnt you have a stag at one time Noah ?

maybe just get you some of that camo paint for him...they must see that white horse from a mile away :D

I've never been around a dogo, thought they were supposed to be fairly quick with good stamina...well, i guess as good as a 110lb dog could be?  Are most of them that big?  In the perfect world, could you find a gyp that comes from a smaller framed line with the same "catching" qualities and hope to get what you want?  Or, were you wanting to change up the frame size/style a lil with the AB (assuming you were talking 'bout a cross?).  I did find an AB line online rolleyes a while back out of N.FL or S.Ga...the dog they seemed to be hanging there hat on, "Cowboy", sure looked the part and even heard a few talks talk about him down here around me????  Just by reading, you seem to really know what you want and are real picky...so, sorry for the long unhelpfull replies...just picking your brain

just a thought ...... breed him to a pit , ab , or smaller framed dogo ??? might get what your looking for !

Then I would say that you haven't ever seen a straight performance AB.

5 jagd terriers = the 110 lbs of fast quiet catching anchors your looking for ! lol  just kidding

No stag, I had a GH and was cool, just not hardy enough for heavy terrain.

DWEST, there are extremes as you know in every breed.... I have a female Dogo about a yr old/90#'s that is faster/more athletic than any dog I have... the bitch just won't catch lol... so there ya go haha  ;D  ... I just gotta get my hands on "that dog" so I can line breed the chit out of it lol!!!


The thought is constantly on my mind, I would love to breed Bucho, but I am concerned of the bigger male to smaller female issue... would there be complications at birthing?  I haven't got a straight answer yet.  (any of yall got a good female and wanna try let me know lol)

Scott, I finally got to see a good AB work over the last few months... damn good dog, just too small for me

Noah, I believe I have what you want in the oven.  8)

I'm all ears Paul  ;D

PM sent

Noah,

And what if you crossed him over one of those "sure nough" rough fl curs?  and i mean those that are straight catch or bark once or twice then catch?  

I doubt thats what you're really looking to do...but im sure a rough one bred to your catch dog would be straight catch with pleanty of wind, quickness, hardness and smarts to fit the bill for a walk in CD.

but then you'd still be in the same boat worrying about th small framed female.  just an idea, would be a cool experiment if you had the time, space and money....just think in the perfect world you could pop out a good small, hard female and breed her back to her daddy and voila....Noah's Flogo's :D

would not be an issue at all ! people breed dogos to small catahoulas all the time to get the catdo cross ! my friend has some on the ground now , 100 + pound dogo to a 50 lb cat and she had no problems ! no reason why a 45-60 lb pit would be any diff ?

its a really cool cross too

Flogos.... has a "ring" to it I must admit!!!  ;D   Yes, I would do that(was planning on doing it with my female I've been raising for the last goddam yr...), BUT.... I wouldn't do a breeding like that unless I was prepared to pay for a cesarean... which I HAVE actually been considering lol

dogo24... I would REALLY like to believe you....

... I'd breed Bucho to Shiner and it would be a done deal ;)

go to douglas mason's website ......" masons catahoulas" ....... there are some pics of his catdos !  really awesome dogs with great stamina and hard catching power !

Yes, I've talked to Mr Mason alot about the Dogo x Cur, no doubt that was the direction I have been working towards... just was trying to make a male Dogo to female cur cross to be safe...

I'm right with you Noah. I have Betty (pitXDane), about 90 lb, hog crazy but is  not as hard as I'd like, and her brain shorts out when she hears a bay. When I say not as hard as I'd like, on Sat. she had a good boar caught for a while and when I got there she lost her grip and caught her breath before locking back up. She gets the job done for now, but lacks in several areas. I also have a lot of broken bays when she bulldozes through the brush to catch.

I just lost my ideal cd a few weeks ago. I don't know his breeding but he was about 65 to 70 lb, caught extremely hard, and had a great mind. I could lead him right up to a bay and not have him be flipping out, but when I kicked him loose it was game on. When he went to a bay he would chose a good path and approach. He might turn around and go back if the way he started didn't suit him and find a better approach. He was in a hurry but he was THINKING about it. He was built like a really thick cur body with a massive neck and set of jaws. He was very athletic and had some leg and speed. He only was cut twice in the time I had him, and they were minor flesh wounds on his leg. He died from internal injuries on a boar that he struck when he slipped his snap on the 4 wheeler. He was still locked, body limp, being drug around when I got to him. That is heart right there.

This thread could get heated, people have strong opinions about this, but I am interested in what is working for those who consistently catch good hogs in any conditions. Noah, I think you described very well my thoughts on the subject. But I've only been at this for 3 yrs. I learn something new every time I turn dogs loose. ;)

well if you ever decide on a cross , let me know , im wanting a good female from a good line to breed to my dogo later on down the road !

Levi, you understand then when I question how "athletic" a catch dog should be?  I would rather a CD miss a catch than carry on with the cur dogs or hunt by hisself and get killed.... I don't know... still a cloudy subject.

dogo24, I damn sure got the female.  What you got for a male?

Yep, on Sat. Betty missed and then rolled half a mile with the curs and caught. Luckily they were caught right by the road and we got to them fast.

my male is coming up on 2 years old , got him from joe levenridge at US HOG OUTFITTERS .  hes about 93 lbs of solid muscle , he would prob weigh more but i run him on the ground with the curs .  really an awesome dog and will be a great catch dog with more time and experience !  for his size hes really fast and agile , ive lead him in before and does really great but i perfer him on the ground because the dogs we run are rough . he has a tendency to catch on the head sometimes but i think its because there are already dogs on the ears ?  idk   you can tell when ole jasper gets there , that hog changes his tone ! lol

I don't hunt dogo's, but it sounds like you have a good one. With a big cd that is athletic and looks good is a +, but brains tell it all. I like to walk in my cd. If it runs up to the brush stops looks and finds a trail then go's in and catches. To me thats brains . Some big cd will just run in and don't stop to think and bulldoze right in ,and bust a bay . Just don't give up on him, hog will run for now. When he get's more hunts under his belt they won't. It sounds like he has the brain's, just give it time man. That's all you can do. We all go on hunt's that we say i should have done this or done that, and i would have done that. It all go's back to what you like.   

Noah, if you're worried about the dog running with the curs after the hog breaks... strap a shock collar on it.

The two AB gyps I have would stick with one for miles... one of them over heated on me real bad summer before last and never fully recovered from it. Now if it's not caught within a hundred yards or so, a little bump with the Tri-Tronics and they're heading back to me.

(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s612/sanduskykennels/dogs001_zps9ea0d2b7.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s612/sanduskykennels/dogg013_zps757f1a8f.jpg)
I get it done with two bulldogs leaves less room for curs on the head. one fast one one big one i let the fast one go about 6 seconds before the big one from around 20 yrds to 50 yrds

If you are concerned about the dog trailing a broke bay, wouldn't cross a curr into the equation. There are smaller dogo males and 75 lb AB males just have to find the right blood. My catch dogs don't crash through the brush breaking bays they tend to find the path of least resistance and rarely miss their mark. With that being said they will also pass a caught hog to go to a bayed hog. So, if you have split bays it can be a pain.

That is a dang good idea Mike... I'm gonna try that

Noah. I believe we hunt the same way and the same terrain here in Florida. We usually have 1-2 rough curs hunting and lead in a catchdog. Where we differ is are catchdogs. I have great success with my big athletic pitbulls. They are fast, athletic, hit the hog hard, and they will never let go. The 2 I have used over the last 8 years are great dogs. They are awesome with my childern, act great with my other dogs, quite in the kennel, and have Never not caught and handled any hog. Of course my rough Fl Curs will gang pile the hog with the catchdog, but I think that is how both are curs are.
Find yourself a good 60-70 athletic pitbull, in your case a female for you to put Bucho on later. I have had both a female and male, and they both get the job done very well. They also have had the nack of not getting cut up bad and I run them without a vest 80% of the time. Good luck with your search buddy!!

Noah I know exactly where ur coming from.  My ridgeback sounds like a durn freight train coming through the brush.  I bred him to a smaller athletic pit.  Pups are 10 months and all 4 I kept have caught.  I am looking for that 75 pound cd and the males are going to hit it lean leg neck with what I hope will be smarts. I cut loose further than some a lot in some places I hunt so I want that athletic dog. I couldn't find the cd I wanted so I bred one. I will probally at some point cut back to 2 of them and make the same type of cross again but this time male pit on a female ridgeback.  Know lots don't like ridgebacks but I do so don't judge too hard lol.

That 75-85# dog is indeed the sweet spot...  I like a Ridgeback personally, just most of the ones I've seen had health issues

So far no health issues male is nearly 5 and female is about 1 1/2 or so

I agree...I have had a few pitbulls in the 5-60 pound range I liked...but a friend had one I wish I could of cloned...about 80 pounds of bad to the bone catch dog that had lots of speed and power...

real nice looking bulldogs. But I'm.curious is to why you let the fast one go first then the bigger one. Wouldn't you wana let the slow one go first and then the fast one? So they hit about the same time. Just wonderingyour reason o. That sir

He does it so the fast one gets the hogs attention then when the bigger slower one gets there the hogs attention is on the first bulldog.  This is typically how I run 2 catch dogs the better cd is turned loose 2nd so it has a better chance to get a good hold on the hog.

I dont like two bulldogs struggeling to get through th same trail so i send the faster one a little ahead he hits and by the time hes caught the big ones there

you are correct good sir

I never thought of it this way...but it sounds reasonable...

back when me and my brother hunted together we sent the slower one first and the faster bulldog second and we tried to time it so that they made it there at the same time...

We do that sometimes when trainin' new CD prospects, works good, just a pain in the ass to carry two bulldogs/deal with them after the catch