EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

What kind of recessive traits do y'all look for when line breeding

nose, bottom, build and how they work (rough, loose, etc.).  just breed the best to the best

A good loud bark, build, drive, handle, temperament, nose, cull hard.

  ancestrial color and conformation and a brain to do the job .

If these are recessive in dogs that you own...you might want to try some different dogs.

I believe recessive genes have to pair up to show themselves as a trait...one from the sire and one from the dam whether it is a desired trait or not...so if a recessive gene pairs up with a dominant gene the recessive trait will not be displayed but will be passed on but be hidden...and if this dog gets bred to another carrier and those recessives pair up then that recessive trait will show up whether it is a good trait or not...I haven't found much data on hunting traits and range etc...

So what I say is line breed the best to the best and this way of breeding will produce better dogs...to me one of the biggest problems out there  is that different breeders have different ideas as to what a good dog is...then you have breeders that keep adding this or that bloodline or breed... which keeps you at the drawing board...decide once what to bring in to the bloodline to get what you need then select the dogs that exhibit those traits and stick with those to go forward...that's another biggy mistake as I see it...

Haha guess I read that wrong

X 2 Reuben

I'm not really talking about recessive genes here, they are dominant, but....

I've got a brother sister pair of pups that as of right now, seem like they are gonna be butt chewers. Only time will tell for sure, but if they do turn out, I'll be breeding them into my yard. Out of those offspring I'll do a few early training sessions and cull down to 6 pups. Those 6 ill keep training and watching until about 6 months and ill pick 2. If those two aren't exactly what I want by the time they are 18 months or so I'll try again. It'll be a lengthy process but I think I have what I need to get the ball rolling.

Dominant traits I would look for...

I would start with something that's already linebred..staying from scratch would take to long for me.

Not necessarily.

Depends on what your looking to put into your line and what you already have available.

I'm hoping it won't take more than a couple generations of hard culling to get the stopping power in looking for.

I'm not in any hurry anyway.  ;D

I like a whole lot of the basic traits I'm seeing in my pups right now (handle, personality - as far as their general attitude) build/color. Their individual hunting attributes are still developing and ill have to wait and see how they "finish" out but I'm very pleased in what I'm seeing so far. 

been in this game since the 90s and im still tryin to make sence of all this recessive dominate linebred inbred stuff whish there was an easier way to under stand lol js

I agree...I have been reading on genetics off and on for a good while and it blows my mind and I don't know much about it...that's why I say to keep the dogs related and only breed the best that we have...one thing for sure is this...once we have at least 3 generations of some well bred dogs then they should produce a high percentage of good dogs...that is keeping it simple for simple folks like me...  ;D

When we get onto the X and Y chromosome talk...im out.

Lots of folks love chatting up these % as well.  Although I do believe there is some reasoning behind this madness ....I cannot help but to revert back to the main probable underlying reason its being used. 

To dazzle and exploit the reader into believing he has a genetically modified super dog that will work, act, and hunt like a programmed robot that comes with a money back guarantee....maybee.  :o

Alot simpler way.....sling the best to the best and cull the rest.   :D

Yellowblackmask... I said the exact same thang when i first joined this forum and got my ars corrected and handed back to me. I never realized how many people on this forum had their masters in genetics. I still think it is funny how many people get all wrapped up thinking they understand genetics.

Best to the best and cull the rest...

the more we know about dog genetics and what a good hog dog is... then that is when we can breed better dogs...breeding best to best with open pedigrees will give us a few good dogs but keeping them line bred with a little inbreeding at the beginning to clean up some of the bad traits will get us there faster...faster meaning a higher percentage of good dogs per litter...

I also believe that some traits intensify over a few generations as you try to breed better dogs from within the same family...

 lol all you nay-sayers gotta do is crack open a book . i been studying on it for years and understand a good portion of it . just a little knowledge of genetics goes a long ways . sometimes best to second best will give you less culls than best to best if you have a little bit of info to start with . without the understanding of genetics we humans would not be able to feed ourselves in this day and age . the best books to crack were written by the rooster men , most in simple english easy to read and will put you a few years ahead in the game we call breeding . when you just get a basic understanding of the subject you and your critters will get better quicker .  things like why do you wanna line breed ?  when is it neccesary to bring in an outcross ?  after you read and understand some of it you will one day say dang why did i not think of that  . it has been practiced for years to improve all aspects of our farming and ranching . we produce more of everything with less now do to genetic research . back in my youth it seemed like all the old rooster men allways had a dang fine yard full of dogs to boot .

Well.........call me hard headed to some extent.  ;D
I practice linereeding, inbreeding and outcrosses.  Understand what I consider the basics ....minus the docterate degree in physics. 

Every single great dog I have witnessed came from two other great or extremely good dogs.
When something solid is bred back to trash or second best.  That's exactly my expectation for the litter......"Lacking"

When you decide to make a cross off of a math calculation instead of the individual dogs productivity ......think you are straying from what your ultimate goal should be.

But as always .......to each their own. ;)

Fully agreed. Keep it tight, but still don't accept subpar

A dog has 78 chromosomes or 39 pair. They get half of their chromosomes from the mother and the other half from the sire. If you have two outstanding dogs then you have a better chance at getting some good pups. However...its nice to know what yourbreeding to because its known that there are millions combinations you can end up with. You'd have to find out which combination your best dog has....and find out what to breed in or out of your program. To much for me to understand so I'll just pray I get lucky!!

if they are tight line bred and the good ones are consider traits good and bad that may have shown up in littermates , if you seee them on some pups know they are there and just cull extremely hard and never bredd 2 dogs that you know posses the same bad traits in there background , just my view.

very good thread. One of the most important things you can do is pair up your dogs. Like genes to Like genes. Once you get that and you raise a litter and you can see what you got you can line breed.  If you got a stud dog that has a loud bawl locate then pair it up to a bitch with a loud bawl or a loud chop. Put cold nose to cold nose, large frame to large frame and above all for me the most important brains to brains. The more you pair your two dogs up, the better chance for you to raise what you wanna hunt.  I took my male dog that was a half brother to my female. Both have the same mother, just different fathers. Both are a lot a like. Both loud bawls and chop bawls. Both built the same. Both really cold noses. Both have a tun of heart and grit. And  both are really smart and have a great personality.  The only difference was this. Male dog is a harder tree dog. Female was a faster track dog. We'll see what I'll get in February.....

Once you get started you can always tweak it a little. More bottom, more muscle, more nose or what ever you want. Just be sure to bring in something that pairs up in the other categories.  What a lot of folks will do is keep a the best from the first litter. breed the pair again and keep the best from that litter. the start breeding the two litters together. male from one litter to female from the other litter. it's a brother sister cross just not a litter mate brother sister cross. You'll need to outcross at some point. It's up to you but I would bring in something that was a litter mate to the original sire or dam that you first crossed and put it into the line. Just make sure that whatever you bring in has those LIKE characteristics that you like. 


good luck with your breeding program


mike

Very well wrote
Thanks