EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Collie vs Cur
Which one and why?
I'm not so much talking about finding them in the woods but moving and penning cows.

Not seen many Collies with the grit to put a rank one back in the bunch

 Kelpie or collie, plenty of tough ones out there now that are bred for cattle. The last one I had had as much bite as my rough cur dogs. Open the gate send the dog and thats it.

Kelpies yes, not seen any Collies like that, what lines, where at Paul?

Curr dogs, mainly because that is what I know and grew up working cattle with, but my cousin did have a pair of nice border collies that would put the heat on a cow and they were very smart. They were fun to watch.

I had 5 cur dogs and one border collie that we penned with for many years I preferred the curs for penning and used the border collie in the pens to push them in the ally when loading and sorting

Its been McCallum bred dogs for the most part. I have seen and worked with some great BC's bred by Orrin Barnes of Canyon Tx, and Mike Eslik of Cash Oklahoma and super tough Kelpies from Josh Hawk in Colorado.

Do you feel you can effectively use a single dog to get the job done or does it typically require a pair?  From a dollars and cents perspective I could get some free cur pups and make them cow dogs and to go buy a pair of BC I'd likely have $3-$5k in the pair ready to work. My only issue is that from what I have seen I like the collies, I like the handle and the right ones have plenty of grit. Has anyone bred or used any half collie half curs or another cross that I have seen is colliexpit. I appreciate the input fellas.

   that old man from louisiana  has been raising collie/pit/cur dogs for a long time can't remember his name but  [ mav ] on the board here has some of them and they have PLENTY  of grit . last time i talked to him he was thinking on gettind rid of them due to the way they act on the chain around his kids  [ when they are running and playing  ] . i'll call him and see if he is still thinking on getting rid of them .  and thru the years i have owned several ruff collies and as a kid used to squirrel and coon hunt with our old farm collie . you would be surprised at just how much nose a good collie has .

I have trained and used both on cows. For gentle cattle on fairly open ground where you need three men to make the job easy, one man and a good Border Collie can do the job just as easy. On wilder cattle, especially in the woods, good curs are hard to beat and my choice for the job.
    When I was training cutting horses, I kept a good Border Collie around because of the many uses I had. I used them to pen, turn back, load cattle, push the chutes. I had one that was the best help I ever had to load unbroke colts. The horses stayed calm and I could load six as fast as I could load one with human help.
 

halfbreed,

   You are probably talking about Len Dalton with the crossed up BC's.


Matt,

    As I mentioned to you on the phone.  With your property, and your cattle, I think a BC is going to suit you best.  The Cur x BC pups that Nolan has, come out of good stock, and if they are anything like the female he has from William Hetzel, they will be hard to beat.  Smart as a whip, plenty of handle, and will work both ends.

Matt,

For less than $20, you can have a galvanized bucket and some range cubes.

Where is that "like" button when you need it!

I should have added, a Border Collie that is not properly trained and a cur that gets out of posistion and has no handle are more trouble tha they are worth. Just because a dog will run around and bark at a cow, doesn't make him a cow dog. Most of the dogs I see people work, you would be btter off without them.

    lol  ain't that the truth , i made plenty of  [ NEW GATES ]  in a fence line while getting the last dog i worked cows with to settle down and pay attention to me   lol .

For me, I have open pasture and pretty broke cows.  I bought a few additional cows this past fall and I have plans to buy more this year and as the numbers increase and new personalities are introduced I can see a need for help that doesnt charge by the day.  I need help when a cow peels out or the occasional one or two that jsut dont want to comply and then set a bad example for the rest to follow suite.  I don't need to find cattle, I need help handling them when I am on a horse.  While I have friends to help when needed etc I need to be able to handle my cows alone. 

Chris send me Nolan's number, Ive about talked myself in to trying a couple if the price is right and I can start them on goats or calves this summer. 

Matt, I have a pair of Catahoula X BC's that are a year old and are well started on cattle. McCallum bred BC over some of my best Catahoula blood. They are for sale or trade  :angel:

I know ya'll are talking about cow dogs but I agree with Bryant 100%

I was taught that if you can't work a cow with 5 gallon bucket no matter how good a calf she puts on the ground she's going to the sale barn first chance  ;D

Anybody know of any good kelpie breeders

I use border collies. Run around 85 mommas and 50 yearlings. Do all penning with two dogs. You can do a lot with one dog, but two dogs make things go a lot smoother. To be successful get cattle to respect dogs and always set up to win.

I have pretty good handle on my dogs and use them many different ways. Gather and pen. Work in pens. Fetch cattle off grass. Even use them to hold up an turn back in pasture sorting off pairs. I use them to block gate while feeding and haying.

There are many tough dogs out there with more bite then you would ever need. Ill take a dog that want a head over a heel dog. But one that will hit both ends is nice. One that will only heel is worthless to me. I've seen some that will catch that Didnt have any bulldog in them.

Ill try to post a few videos

Let me know if these work. I dont have many videos in pasture. Hard to work dogs ride and film. I have posted pics in the past.


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The first video worked the others are not available due to privacy settings it says,the first video was enough to see what I needed to.  No excessive biting, cheap shots on calves etc.  Just filled a gap when needed and got the cows where you wanted them to go.  If I had a pair similar I would be pleased.

Keep in mind Australian cattle dogs. ( red and blue heelers. ) i got one , and he is heck of a hand for me when working cattle. Besides personality and maybe the best dog i've ever had.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/02/jatasy5u.jpg)

I have used Heelers and Curs and had great results with the combo. However, a buddy of mine brought a Hall's Heeler by and that was one impressive dog! They are popular in California and other western states. Check them out, because they are an intense breed!

If you type in daltonscowdogs in google or go YouTube and watch lendalton... By far has the most experience working with dogs that I've ever seen. Check him out I gaurentee you like what you see. He covers all kinds of crosses and full bloods from hangin tree to pit collie mix. Only thing I don't see him use are straight curs he doesn't really like bark it seems. But I would just use him for a reference of what collies can do because he charges a lot for his stock and takes pride in what he does. Hope this helps

Videos should work now.

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From my experiences with collies, curs, and the people who use both types, my money is on the collie for precise handling of cattle. I can recognize the usefulness of a good set of cur dogs, and have seen some great ones in action. However, for my own taste, the collies are where it's at. Think of a collie as giving you remote controlled cattle. Plus, when you're not working them, Collie Quirks are hilarious to watch. It's a lot like owning rainman.

Cheers!
M