EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

How do u know that breeding a real bad ass hunting dog with another bad ass hunting dog will get you sum bad ass hunting pups. In my opinion if the pups are going to be good, is up to you if you train them right and feed them properly along with their vaccines. It doesnt matter wat cur, hound etc...u breed. If the pup wants to hunt his going to hunt and use his nose. Unless their is facts or ppl having problems with breeding a crap dog to another crap dog and all the pups come out to be no good.

 I want to know why ppl always say breed your best dog to your best dog.

breeding best dog to best dog of no relations, and if they really are good to great dogs, then you probably will get some good dogs but probably a low percentage of good to great dogs...now breeding good to great dogs from line breeding and inbreeding will give you a higher percentage of good dogs and more so the more generations of good dogs in the pedigree...

My take is this. Best to best gives a man an idea that the pups should be good. It is a reasonable expectation that top notch dogs should produce atleast decent dogs with an chance at very good dogs. Regardless of parents if these pups aren't trained properly the chance of having top notch pups is slim. If u breed junk chances are u are gonna get junk with a slim chance of getting a decent dog.

I don't like breeding papers for one reason. Papers don't catch hogs dogs do. In my opinion who ur great grandpaw or that dogs great grandpaw is doesn't mean u or that dog will work.

even in humans   a person will take looks and  actions and tendecies of  somone in there family usually within a few generations ....  when i breed dogs  i sure like my chances when the dogs is from generations of working dogs top and bottom and even better if they are related heavily ...... the best breeding practice i know  of  is if  you get a sure nuff dog  you like try and breed  to clone him or  her and get as much likeness as possible to that dog and who knows may even get better .....  but  hope  to clone or get as close as possible and  you'll be  ok ...and  anyone should  have a good  idea  of the best way to  get that done   .... extreme line breeding ...

Mr. Reuben for the win!

Thank you Justin...but Mr. Parker said the exact same thing just a different way of saying the same thing... 8)

Thats a big 10 4

 Plus the fact that "hunt" is a trait that can be passed to offspring. Not all dogs pass all of their genetic traits to their pups. But you have a better chance if both dogs exhibit the traits that you desire.

You never know if they will pass their good hunting genes to their pups until you breed them and raise the pups. It takes a lot of time, money and work. Its nice to know that your chances are higher than just throwing to dogs together and hoping for the best.

 JMO

  that's true dj  a lot of trail and error in this game . seen some mighty fine dogs [ hunt wise ] that was duds in the brood pen and then a few crap eaters that threw awesome pups .

Great post :)

It's done in an attempt to increase the chance of getting a good pup from the breeding. 
 So What do you do with the rest of the litter????

 rolleyes

And like already mentioned when breeding related dogs we should find the best in that line and breed that dog more than any other dog in your line...and a well bred hunting dog doesn't need much training...just show em what you want...we can make training for the most part look easy when we correct or encourage the pup at the right times...a bad handler can ruin a good prospect or at least keep the dog from reaching his maximum potential...

I have seen well bred dogs from a good line that after 2 years as a pet make great hog dogs in a few hunts...there are lots of variables...all we have to do is make the right choices to get the most out of a good prospect...

Where are you goin with this question?

Can't say that i know either josh, but if he is askin what im thinkin he is then the answer is......when the time comes you find a sharp shovel and dig a hole.......

Well........  Bad A$$ dog to Bad A$$ gyp is gonna get you tickets to the ball game.....but coupled with a Bad A$$ sharp shovel and a Bad A$$ cull program.........will get you front row seats  to a Bads A$$ ball game. :laugh:

Breed right and cull harder there are to many people now days that don't cull hard enough!!! your chances will always be better breeding good dogs to good dogs more so if they are line bred I am not a breeder but been around them all my life and the good ones cull hard!!!

to be a good breeder one must have hi standards and cull accordingly...and make sure to keep the very best pups for hunting and breeding...

and if you do all of that right then you just might get to play in that ball game  ;)

if you have to cull  alot to start with you have a long long ways to go with a  very  big maybe attached to get to a consistancey.....  90% of breedings are bred on looks .....only way to get away with breeding that way is to have extremely line bred dogs to start with ....

Its all about stacking the odd's man .  Then its all about stacking the gene pools to help your odd's.  There is no garentee on anything you just stack it and play the cards .  If you get a Royal Flush and you got three of a kind which hand are you going to play ?  Thats right the Royal Flush same with the dogs !

Mr. Parker.....I have a question and by no means do I want it to sound argumentative or any thing along those lines. It's just a question and you've got a lot of knowledge so I would like your opinion.

I KNOW the best way to produce quality hunting dogs on a regular basis and in a short amount of time is breeding best to best and if you have a good line going then line breeding is the way to go.

My question is this:
Do you think all hunting breeds were started by the above mentioned method and the way they turned out (color and confirmation) was just a by product of the way they were bred, just luck of the draw perhaps? Or did they get bred in the above methods but at the same time considerations were taken and breeding partners were chosen not just concerning abilities but color/confirmation as well?

I can't answer for Larry Parker, but I will answer for Terry Parker,  :laugh:
Plain and simple, form follows function.

  Breed to the highest standards you are willing to keep and don't let pretty cloud your mind and after a long enough period of time, form follows function.

Let's say my English and Irish peasant forefathers needed dogs that were silent, super fast and all bidness in order to aid in the survival of their families by way of catching rabbits and other small table fare that could be quickly aquired, skinned prepared and eaten. This was the case becuase in the feudal system all game belonged to the nobility and poaching was highly frowned upon.
Now, knowing what he needs his dogs to be capable of and knowing which dogs in the lords lands are the best coursers, it would make since that he and his fellow peasants were breeding best to best and eventually a certain conformation came about.

What if the men of old really really liked the look of the big fat blue bullies of today back then and decided to try to make their dogs achieve that look? Would they still have churned out the greatest high speed Poaching dogs the world has ever seen? Or would they have been sitting there spinning their wheels and not getting anywhere because no matter how much you want it to, function doesn't follow form. Form follows function.

Bob Owens says Pretty is as Pretty does, once you understand what that old timer means by that phrase, all this nonsense becomes common sence.

Heck I'll go you one deeper, catahoulas. (yes, mass produced blackmouths too in my opinion, but let's stick to an easy one)

I'd bet ya 20 years ago you could have picked 10 different guys who kept and worked cats, grabbed a pair of pups from each of them and two years later you'd have 6-10 pretty decent hog dogs.

Then the catahoula craze came about and everyone started breeding for form and in reality were breeding dogs who were pretty and better behaved yard pets, because what non hunting breeder wants a terribly behaved dog who's always digging out and killing the neighbors kitties?
Those crap dogs that got produced still made their way into the hands of hunters who didn't know there was better to be had. (like myself 10 years ago)

Fast forward to now and you get a pair of pups from the first ten litters you come across and two years from now you may have a dog or two who gets it done.

Breeding dogs is super duper easy, breeding perfomamce dogs, not so much.









And to the original fella, there are some things you can train into a dog, like sit stay and what animal you want them to hunt, but you can't train hunt, nose, bottom, speed or intelligence. Disagree, that's fine, but it is what it is and when a fello figures that out he's finally at the starting line.

I agree with you 100% Terry, very well stated.

 i'd say 70 % is bred on looks  ....

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