EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

There is no right or wrong comment.This is only what YOUR opinion is.What have you seen over the years to make you sway one way or the other?.................................Why do most hog hunters want a silent dog?................What do you call a open dog?...............I would love to hear what some guys think on the subject.

If it opens it's mouth, and lets out a noise while the hog is moving greater than 5 yards, it is open in my mind.

Open=Barking or making a noise before the hog is stopped, some say oh well he only opens on a hot track or he opens when the hog breaks but open is open to me.
Most believe that open dogs push the hogs and allow the hog to know how far away the dogs are, I would personally like to hunt behind a hound or pack of hounds just to compare.  I have only hunted behind open curs and houndxcurs.  I don't know that one is better or worse then the other but I like to KNOW that when a dog barks they are looking at a stopped hog.  It is just personal preference...
Matt

matt go hunt with marshall and high ball he is open barks all the way and he does pretty good

I THINK ITS WHEN A DOG ''OPENS'' ON ''TRACK'' OR ''OPENS''' AFTER THE HOG HAS BROKE AND IS RUNING ANOTHER WISE JUST DONT SHUT UP. I HAD A FRIEND THAT HAD A DOG THAT EVERY TIME HIS FOOT HIT THE GROUND HE WAS BARKING  OR ''OPENING'' TALK ABOUT AGGRAVATING  >:( U DIDNT NO WHAT WAS GOING ON IF HE WAS BAYED OR STILL RUNNING A TRACK OR RUNNING A HOG. I NO WE JUST RAN ALOT OF HOGS DONT RECALL CATCHING THAT MANY HOGS WITH THAT DOG. BUT DO REMEMBER DRIVING OR RUNNING ALOT OUT OF THE COUNTRY WITH HIM BUT WE WERE RUNNING HOGS THAT ARE DOG SMART IF THEY HERE UR TRUCK OR 4 WEELER THERE GONE AND RUNNING IF A STICK BREAKS THERE OFF AND RUNNING I JUST DONT THINK THAT DOG HELPED THE PROBLEM. I GUESS THEY COULD HEAR HIM COMING FROM A MILE AWAY LOL. DONT NO BUT I PERSONALLY LIKE A SILENT DOG BECAUSE I NO WHEN I HEAR MY DOGS OPEN THAT MEANS THERE LOOKING AT HIM..  

So do yall think that If A hog breaks,he is gonna run faster if the dogs opens?................How do these slient dogs find hogs for yall?............Do they take a track and trail off into the pasture to where the hogs are bedded?..............Or do most of them just run around until they wind a hog in their bed?

This is where it gets good.

I think IMO that a hog does not run wide open all the time.  He runs till he feels he is safer then he slows down and catches some wind.  IMO I think that if he can hear a dog barking the whole time he is able to locate the dog better thus knowing when he can stop and how long he can stop for.  In a situation where the hog is going to stand and fight I don't think it matters either way but for a hog that likes to run I think it gives a slight advantage to the hog.  I know if I was running from someone I would not mind having them hollar at me the whole time, I would know right where they were. 
MG

Good point Matt,  I think it really only matters when you're dealing with dog smart hogs... Hogs like that hear a dog open, and they're ready to slip.  Silent dogs obviously come in all varieties, hunting wise.  Definitely got to keep my tracker handy when I put Ellie down... the disadvantage of being totally silent is they can be in the next county before you even figure out they jumped one...  I do feel I catch more hogs because of it though..

Here is a silent vs. open twist for you, walk hunt from the truck next time you go to the woods.  I will promise you more hogs caught and they will be closer to you haha.  They can hear the buggies too!
MG

I have two curs that upon striking the hog and it breaking will sound off while chasing it the first twenty yards or so of the chase then the shut up until they have it bayed.  Otherwise these dogs don't make a peep until they have eyes on a hog.  I consider these dogs silent dogs. To me open dogs are dogs that bark upon finding and/or working a track or dogs that constantly bark while in persuit. Just my opinion.

I much prefer silent dogs because that's what I'm used to I guess.  Open dogs throw me off completely but I've seen them used with success so to each his own.

To keep it short, they both have their place in the overall scope of hog dogging.  Generally, it is the size of the land, the experience of the hogs, and the group you hunt with that dictate what will work best for a specific parcel of property.  I only own hounds that are very vocal on track, but I can certainly aggree that there are times I wish I had a perfectly silent RCD.

West Texas,

Personally, I've got no problem with an open mouth dog.  When I first began studying this sport (I waited 5 years before owning my own dogs) I often heard people bashing hounds or open dogs.  A lot of them would not even give them a chance. Fortunately I had many opportunities to hunt behind open hound packs as well as individual dogs that were good, solid hog dogs.  From what I saw, those dogs were just as good as a silent dog when it came to hog hunting.  A smart hog in the area will run at the sound of a bay and a hog squealing just as fast as he will from an open trailing dog.

When talking open mouth dogs, track speed is key IMO.  A good dog should be able to catch up to the hog whether he's open or not, unless it's an extremely old track.  My lead dog is pure hound and opens up only when he sees them, but will never shut up until the fat lady sings.  He's great at locating, great at the bay but poor at shutting down a runner.  I supplement him with a couple good curs and that helps that issue.  Another reason I don't mind him open is that when the curs are caught, I can easily locate the catch if it's a bigger hog that's not squealing.

I agree with Cutter Bay on what an open dog is.

Just my opinions - my dogs are by no means the best and I'm sure as heck no expert, I just enjoy hunting.

Thats a real good reply,IMO.Just about sums up what I think about the subject.I dont think open,or silent dogs are the only answer.I do think that ALOT of folks dont have a clue when it comes to Sure nuff hog dogs.I aint saying that I have a yard full of em.But I have hunted behind a few,and only one of them was silent on a track,and that dog would squall when a hog broke..............................But then again what I like in a dog,aint what the next man would like.

Some ramdon thoughts/opionions about the subject. 

1.  You can have a cold trailing nose and be silent.  Extremely rare and worth gold in my book, but there are strains out there.
2.  You can catch hogs with both open and silent.
3.  IN some cases, I believe your initial bay could be closer to where you turned out if using silent dogs.  Hog never knows that there is a dog in the woods until he is woke up with a dog in his face.  If the hog breaks, the stealth advantage is gone. I have hunted with guys that always wanted the stealth advantage.  Doors are eased closes and dogs better not bark in the box and if a dog barks, he is looking dead in the eye of that hog.
4.  IMO if a dogs opens he needs to burn on a track.  Silent dogs, because they have a stealth advantage sometimes, can be a little slower and produce.  OPen and slow is a sin in my book.

Very good reply.How many dogs have you seen that could cold trail,and do it dead silent?I have only seen a handfull,and they werent for sale. ;D

I personally prefer silent dogs, because I like the "sneaky" approach.  The only dog I ever owned that was semi-open would only bark behind a hog that was bayed and broke, and would only bark while he had the hog in sight.  It actually proved kind of useful at times, because without having to get out the tracker I would know what general direction they were headed for just a little bit.

The problem as I see it, not so much lies in whether you prefer open or silent but much like my feelings over mixing a pack of rough and loose dogs, I think there can be problems when mixing open and silent dogs and especially ones that don't regularly hunt together.  A couple years back a hunting partner had the most beautiful walker hound wander up to his place.  He tried the dog in a pen, and he would flat sing to a hog.  Carried him hunting a couple times, and that dog would start bawling the minute his feet would hit the ground.  I could go into details, but the moral of the story is it really screwed the other dogs up for a couple hunts, then I don't think you could have begged a dog to honor him should he have bayed.

What I've always found interesting is hearing all the old-time hound hunters talk about how frequently they used to start a hog and perhaps run that sucker until sometime the next day (or perhaps longer)...then you hear people always talking about how the hogs have gotten dog-smart over the years and they just flat run now days like they use to not.  Hmmm......

I've hunted behind open dogs, semi-open, silent all the way to dont hardly bark at all.  I prefer silent dogs when you hear them open you know what it is.  I consider a dog silent if they Bark looking at a hog or right after a hog breaks then shut up and get the hog stopped.  Trail barking, opening on scent, ect., I don't care for at all.  Let me just say this what good does an open trailing dog do for hog hunting, it certainly would not benifit me to have an open dog, even if it did not effect the hogs tendancy to run.
Matt made a good point about the trail barking and how a hog moves when he is evaiding dogs.  Allot of times they will move at a pace determined by the ammount of pressure they feel behind them. If they hear dogs behind them the pace will be faster.  If they hear nothing they might slow down or even sqat and hide in the brush if he feels like he put enough distance behind him.  Where this really comes into play is thick brush where it takes a dog a while to manuver through while working a track a dog can fly in the open on a track or even in open woods but in larger expanses of thickets and brairs a dog is slowed down allot by the vegetation.  Because of that its my opinion that even a dog that is fast on a track can't utilize his full potential because of the vegetation so any advantage of track speed making up for the dog opening is eliminated.  Bring into play other factors that slow a dogs tracking down like heat, pollen, cattle scent, ect. then track speed might be slowed down to the point where stealth/silent dogs becomes very important.  Now sometimes I hunt places with allot of pasture and during the winter time I could use open dogs with good track speed and catch just as many hogs because they flat out run them down and make them bay no matter what the hog hears or sees or feels like doing.  But we dont expereince those ideal conditions very much around here and most of that is during deer season.  The Same goes for dogs pushing a standing hog, it might not matter when conditions are right and the dog has a good chance of shutting the hog down again any way.  But let the woods get thick with vegetation and hot and humid and the advantage gets tipped into the hogs hands a dog can blow the only chance at getting a hog bayed by pushing a hog that was otherwise standing at bay.  Thats a whole other subject, but the point is its the conditions that dictate whether the little things, like open dogs or pushy dogs come into play or not.  Just my 2 cents, but you would'nt have so many people beleive so strongly in it if there was nothing to it.  Now granted some people might be green off the vine and know nothing about hog dogs and say they only run silent dogs but chances are they are just repeating what they have heard others say without really knowing the reasons behind it.

West Texas Curs........I'd say a silent dog runs a track just the same as an open dog he just keeps his mouth shut.

Waylon

well said waylon very good

My Dixie female could cold trail with ANY dog I ever saw and was 100% silent. If she ever barked you could turn out the catch dog as she had him stopped and was looking at him. She had the best nose of any cur I have ever seen, I have seen other "good dogs" turned out on a track they couldn't smell. Load them up, turn her out on the same track the other dogs had walked all over and her leave on the track like she was looking at the hog. And bay the hog by herself at the end.

Just wish I had a yard full of them like her!!!! I agree they are few and far between and she is the only one like that I have ever owned.
Makes you place a little higher standard on your other dogs after having one like that.........

i like semi open curs i dont know why i just do    i have got hogs both ways open and silent

Thats it. Any extra noise, no matter what it is, will move the hogs out of the area here. They have been conditioned to know barking dogs = people and death.

Plus, I don't see how you get catch dogs lined up when the bay dogs have been barking the whole time. Guess you can send them on command or some thing? ??? If the hog breaks and the dogs are barking on track the catch dog will probably try to keep going. I want the catch dog to come back if it gets quiet.

Some real good replys.I would like to add that, I like a dog that runs quiet,as much as the next man.But I also wont get rid of one that can really run a track open,either.Anyone ever wonder why other biggame hunters use mostly open hounds?But most Tx hog hunters turn their nose up at hounds.Do Bear not fall into the "I hear a dog,I'm outta here" catagory?Why would someone want to breed up a dog that is open on track?Sounds like to me by alot of the replys all a open dog does is push the critter faster........Now I aint askin these questions because I dont have my own opinion.I just would like to know what some other dog mens opinions are.Do alot of yall think a open mouth hound is out of date?

Allen I have hunted  regularly with two in my whole life.  These two are the standard that I judge all dogs.  My buddy owned both.  He was lucky enough to own both at the same time.  He now has dog with as much hunt and drive but not as near as the nose, but the search still continues.  My old dog has been hunted with these dogs and I know he does not have near the nose they have.  If a dog can't out trail my old dog,  I usually move on if that dog does not shine in another area.

I would guess that most big game hunters want alot of nose.  Nose usually comes with long ears and barking.  Finding a silent one that cold trail and quiet is hard.  That's why I say they are worth there weight in gold.  That being said, there are some big game hunters that prefer silent cold trailing dogs like the striker dog.  I know of a plott hunter that is trying to breed a silent line of plott.

I would guess that since I moved to Texas, I dont need a dog that can cold trail as much.  You can almost find a decent track to run.  Back in SC, that wasn't the case.  I have seen the two dogs above leave on a walk out of a field and put hogs to the end of the track many of days in July.  I have never seen a track that a hound could take that the Mt Cur named Tazz could not take.  His son was bred to lil hopper before he died.  My buddy is raising six of the nine pups himself and the other three are placed real close.

When I see guys posting dogs for high prices, I just think that they can't be worth it.  Usually a dog that good, has offers way before the owner wants to sell.  If he is silent and can trail he would have offers out the door.  I would have sold anything I  had to buy the Tazz dog if my buddy ever wanted to sell.  All he had do was name a price. 

I've never seen a catch dog quit when a hog breaks.  My experience is that they will follow a hog that breaks till they lose them or tire out.  They're not chasing a hog because of a trail barking dog.

An open mouth dog is just as good as any if he's putting pork on the ground.  If he's running hogs out of the area everytime he hunts, he's no good for you.

Mixing open/silent dogs will cause confusion - unless they are a pack.  A pack meaning that the dogs know each other and their roles inside and out.  Sometimes my hound will open up out of frustration if he can't figure out a track.  The other dogs know the difference in a trail bark and a bay.

I know some people wonder why someone would mess with the mouth, but I love to see and hear a good dog work.  You other hound guys understand what I mean.

I am in the hill country, I run open and silent dogs together. I still catch 100+ hogs a year. I am old school and appreciate a good race. its nice to hear where your dogs are goin, and not need tracking collars. I do use them just dont always need them. OPEN dogs catch hogs TOO.

JJ

Tazz sounds like the type of dog,I dream about.Whats his son like?What do you think of Hoppers nose?Did you keep one of them pups?I got a sister to Hopper here.You cant beat a peep out of her,and she can trail with any dog I have seen.The problem with her is she is kinda suicidal,If you run her with the right dog,she is gonna catch it.Not as bad byherself,but still way rougher than I like.

Allen along the same line of thinking.  Have you heard of top notch hounds that use to open go completley silent.  Why do you think this happens?

There was a big discussion about this on a plott board.  Opening dogs going silent for no reason.  Dogs that were top notch opening hounds.

JJ,I been waitin on you and Rusty to chime in. ;D He must be out chasein pork all over Tx.............

Well I got one for you!  I have a gyp that barks on track and a male that is completely silent he can fly he out runs everything well while she is barking and the hog thinks the dogs are way behind he done caught up  with the hog and put the heat on him.......I have said this before a hog is like a horse he can breath if he is in a trot but can not breath if he is in a dead run......If yor dog can put enough heat on the hog he will have to bay...Thats why in westtexas they long trot there horses so they can cover more ground.  If you can make a hog get in a dead run for a 100 yards he will have to bay... If a dog is fast enough it does not matter if he bark or not....

I have had dogs that were very open,get more silent with age.I dont know why,but they did.I always thought they lost some of the excitement they had as young dogs.Also thought they might have got the Tx hog hunter mind set.If I stay a tad more quiet,I might catch him quicker. ;D Its hard for me to say.Also had dogs open up more with age.So who knows??

yeah I talked to rusty today he is buying a hound from me.

JJ

I am a silent dog person and I used to get mad and pick up my dogs and leave if someone had a dog that opened up on track and I still will if the dog opens its mouth everytime its foot hits the ground.  Now a dog that gives a little mouth every now and then doesnt bother me too much especially if it is after a hog breaks because the hog already knows its there.  My old female will let out a bark or two when she smells a hot track and will give a little mouth when it breaks at first then she will let out two barks about every 500yds but the younger silent dogs are usually 500yds ahead of her so it doesnt matter.

However, I have noticed that open dogs seem to hunt harder than silent dogs at least the ones that I have observed for the most part.

Joey

How well do yall with the open dogs pan out as far as being able to catch multiple hogs in a small area? What kind of country are yall hunting?

Could there be a link between the two? Like the big game guys, they are after one and are done I would think. ???

Allen,
A friend of mine owned Tazz and his son that Hopper was bred to.  I was fortunate enough to hunt with Tazz a little before he got gone. He was the first hog dog I hunted behind.  Was kind of dissapointed to find out they werent all that way. LOL  He was a once in a lifetime type dog.

Rusty, the dog hopper was bred to was a good dog. He didnt have the nose his father had but you could count on him to produce wherever you took him.  Hunted hard, was smart and had plenty of bottom and the rite amount of gritt.  I caught a lot of hogs behind him and put a lot of faith in him.

My buddy is raising the pups.  They are about 8 months old.  3 of the 6 are really on the gritter side. He is also starting a Cody II pup out of the pocahantos plott line for me as well.  she is wide open all the time and can really play some music.

I had seen the too gritter from lil hopper.   I was hoping his 5 acre pen and some really bad sows would knock it out of her.  But he saw the same, two more dogs and she will try to catch any hog. Stayed on the IR.  With every bad wreck, we kept thinking that would change her mind,  it never did.  

I think lil hopper has a ton drive and can move a jumped track pretty good, but I dont think she cold trailed well.  


I believe some dogs learn if they keep there mouth shut they can sneak up on game quicker.  I have seen it were coon dogs go to catching game on the ground.  Also more and more of the competition dogs are getting quieter and quieter even though the rules state they must open.  "Strike my dog, tree my dog" in the same breath.

I hunt alot of country, the smallest place I hunt is 15,000 acres up to 173,000, However in the past i have hunted 500- 600 acre places. The best day that I ever had was in a section(640 acres) thats a small place around here. 15 hogs in 3 hours with my open dogs.

JJ

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/HEBEL44/dogs018-1.jpg)

Caught on 7,000 acres.In not quite a full day,with open and silent dogs together.I wont go into best numbers or anything,but they do alright for us.I try not to hunt stuff under a sect,unless I can go on the bordering propertys.I like a dog to stay hooked,if he can.

If they dont stay HOOKED weather is 500 yds or 5 miles they dont stay at my house.

JJ

Well I think hounds in general were bred for "pleasure" hunting and just for fun, rather than getting a job done quick.  Ofcourse Im talking about WAAAAY back when the different hound breeds were being developed and before that.  Mostly the hound hunting was done by upper class/nobility at that time, rather than dog hunting being mostly a middle class thing nowdays.  Because of that, the open trailing was a desireable trait because the folks back then enjoyed the chase and being able to listen to it was part of the fun.  In my opinion thats why hounds are open trailing/running dogs.

Cur dogs (for the most part) were developed as a type more recently in the past 200-250 years to do a job; Find and gather free range livestock, Hunt FOR FOOD, and protect the house. So open trailing was not desirable.

I from what I've seen most dogs would be considered open mouth dogs, atleast on a chase.  This mostly from seing pets chase deer or other junk and  I've heard some pits yipping on a race when the hog broke.  So I would say in hounds the open mouth was just enhanced and in Cur was depressed or rather dogs that did'nt open on trail were used to develope the type.

One thing to think of is most guys that started hunting hogs back 25+ years ago, were coon hunters before that or cowboys with cow dogs (some both)  So the hound had his chance to take his place as the breed of choice as much as the cur dog did, back when hog populations started increasing and hog hunting started becoming more common.  Personally, my dad had both Coon dogs(hounds) and cow dogs (Curs).  It did'nt take a long time to figure out which was better suited and that was back before people learned how to hunt hogs on the internet.  lol  Now he had some hounds that worked out and one in particlar that was great on hogs, but they did'nt work out as well as the Cur dogs did.

Waylon

;)

I think Hounds were bred because the dogs they had didnt cut it,on the trailing and stayin hooked department.The open trailin was just a early tracking device,for a dog that would stay hooked. ;)

If everyone had a dog like that the hogs wouldnt have a chance haha but boy wouldnt it be fun

Especially on the trailing end of it!!

I'm not bashing hounds by any means, just stating what I beleive. They do have thier place in hog hunting big country and areas where populations aren't very dense and you need a go yonder dog to find one.

Waylon

Allen,

To answer your question, most all other game pursued with dogs will tree.  A dog barking behind such game will eventually (as intended) push them into a tree.  A hog on the other hand can't tree, so what is the option?  RUN!  How is this beneficial?

i run mostly closed mouth dogs.

i have a few hounds  that are open. one dog is open on track and the other is open when she hits the ground.

my experience has been about the same, but it just depends on where your hunting.

if your hunting an area that gets dogged all the time, you might want to run your silent dogs.

i hunt some areas that are rarely hunted if ever, and it doesn't matter if the dog or dogs are open, the hogs dont get far.

however, i will say this much, it does get annoying sometimes when a dog won't shut it's mouth. Other times, you haven't heard a bark all night and wanna hear your hound bark even if there isn't a pig.

me personally, i like a closed mouth dog, but if my hound gets on a real hot track and she bumps a few times, it doesn't bother me a bit. cause usually in the next 20 minutes, we're hobbling the hog.

I think these last three posts pretty much summed it up. ;)

Individuals that are unwilling to consider other options quit growing at an early age.  JMO!!!

Whew! man i'm just going to jump in the fire here ;D I hunt mostly open mouthed hounds. BUT, i also live in the mtns. of east Tn. there has been some very good points so far, but let say something about hounds, just because they are open mouthed, DON'T mean that they are good track dogs. they are like those curs, there are good ones and bad ones, some have good noses, some don't, some run with their nose on the ground(which will be slower), and some run with their nose in the air, some have the brains to use their nose and some don't............... me personally, i like the cur crossed with the hounds for hog hunting, for several reasons, I like a little mouth in my hog dogs "very little" just enough to know what direction they are going. if you hunted silent dogs here you wouldn't never find your dogs. example: i'm standing in a branch, there is mtn on all four sides, no roads, just trails. it would only take a dog a few minutes to be topped out, and out of hearing. if the dogs are bayed and i can't here them, i don't have a clue which they went. and its at least an hour in all directions to top out to hear better. well you go left, after climbing for an hour, only to find out they went right and are getting cut to shreds. and yes, my dogs dont get loose without tracking collars on them but they aint worth a dime deep in a holler. there is soooo much more i want to say, but i ant that good at typin and my hands drawin up already :D  it MOSTLY depends on personal preferance, are catchin hogs for fun, damage control, money.........if i was catchin for damage control or money, i would want to catch as many as i could as fast as i could. it would be a job, and in order to do a job correctly you need the right tools for the job. if your hunting for fun well, it don't matter as long as you are having fun.  i bear hunt too, and when i am bear hunting i want a cooooold nosed dog that can move a track and has alot of mouth, and my opinion about curs on bear, well, i wouldn't even consider it, not that i don't like the cur dogs they just aint got what it takes to run bear in these mtns. "THE WAY WE HUNT" don't anybody go and take that the wrong way, i'm not saying that there aint curs that can tree bear, as i have read that they have. but like was said previously. the way we hunt and the guys i hunt with and the terrain..... they just wouldn't work. like i said i can go on and on about this subject, and yes i have caught plenty of hogs with these open mouthed dogs. some races didn't last but a few min. strike to bay, but there were others that were longer. most of the fellers i hunt with like to here the race, as this was the way they was brought up, which i think has alot to do with it too. but not only hear the race but have the meat at the end of it. now keep in mind that we don't have the hogs that you all do down south, and may take 1/2 a day to find a bear track to even turn dogs on, so it helps to have dogs that will open so that we can keep up with them, as they may trail miles before they even jump the bear and then another several miles before it stops to fight or trees. and if you had silent dogs "in the mtns" you could never find them. i have been right on top of dogs before and not heard them and them baying or treed, so it helps tremendously to know in general which way they are going so you know in which general direction to start looking.   WHEW!!!

2nd verse same as the 1st.

I asked for guys opinions,thats yours.Thanks for it.

So, a barking dog will push a full grown bear up a tree?

I have treed several bear with my hog dogs, I can Honestly say that I have never heard or seen a bear go up a trre and wait for the dogs to get there. all the bears Ive seen treed were because of the dogs pulling hair and making him go up a tree, not because he was tired of running from the dogs.

JJ
just my 0.2

I would be interested to hear a real deal bear hunter's opinion on this....

Yes jj you are right. on an average race. usually the more heat the dogs put on the bear the more likely he will tree, BUT not all of them will tree. and thats a whole nother deep subject ;D 

So you fellows would say that a barking dog does not put game up a tree simply by making noise?

Although I am not a bear hunter so to say I have had my dealings with bear before and god willing it will continue.  Just wanted some other oppinions about treeing big game. ;)

Got a few freinds I would consider real deal bear hunters, one even trains dogs for other people and is a respected person in the bear hunting comunity. From what they tell me and from what I have seen, you gotta put some heat on him to get him to tree or fight.  He dont respect a stand back and bark dog just like porky dont.

You got dogs of all sorts and breeds, then you got hog dogs and bear dogs. ;)