EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

What is a help dog

A dog that helps out ;)

Dog that hunts less than 100 yds out if any but is at the bay everytime. Thats my defintion everyone probly has there own

It's a dog that has not figured out how to strike a hog before your lead dog.. SO it's a dog that will go to the bay to help bay the hog that your lead dog has struck, so its good to have help dogs there to take hits from the hog so your lead dog don't get hit all the time...lol

A dog that helps hold a hog at bay or helps catch or helps out in any form or fashion of the hunt with an end result of a caught hog

a cull ;D

a help dog can be a big help in catching hogs because he will help in stopping or catching a hog...is not a dependable strike dog but might stumble on a pig now and then...

in my yard he will be on the cull list and will be replaced as soon as a well bred pup steps up and starts striking and stopping hogs...

X2. A dog that wont be at my house long.

My deffinition without bein a smartarse would be a dog that generally hunts short range, if at all and is a dog that will on occasion find a hog but normally just farts around until another dog finds a hog and then gets to the bay quick fast and in a hurry to help out......just my opinion of course....

Bein a smartarse though the term "help dog" is a nice way to say a cull.....simply a dog that can't get it done by itself, plain and simple.


  I don't care for them in my yard personally BUT i do know a couple guys that utilize them and do it rather well at that. One of the guys i hunt with quite often runs a pack of 4 dogs, 2 gyps and 2 males. The gyps are his allstars, they hunt their tails off and find him 99% of his hogs. He hunts these 2 gyps together and they hunt well, if they get on a hog that wont quite settle down he will send 1 of his males to them to help stop the hog or just to have a little more catch power at the bay. Both of his males  we consider help dogs BUT his method works well for him and he catches hogs more often than not.


Guess its all in how you want to go about catchin hogs. In my perfect world i would prefer 4 dogs independant of 1 another that will hunt solo but will honor each others bay......i ain't there yet but im getyin closer ;)

I

Yep... a cull.

While i do aknowledge that we all have our own opinions/deffinitions of what a help dog is i cant say that I or anyone I hunt with would agree with the statement that a "help is a dog that has not figured out how to strike a dog before your lead dog"......i have hunted with a countless number of helpdogs over the years that neither had the heart nor hunt to outstrike the main dog. To me the deffinition that i quoted from you is almost a spot on deffinition for a young started dog not a help dog and yes I do believe there is a huge difference......with age comes experience and with experience comes production more often than not.

Y'all know I can't pass up a chance!  ;D

Quoted from one of my earlier posts:

The easiest way to explain my point of view...is to TRY and make sure we are all on the same page as far as definitions go. I used the www.merriam-Webster.com for my definitions.

Some may argue otherwise but based off of pure definition...a pack ( 1.c.1 a number of individual components,  5.a1 a group of domesticated animals trained to hunt or run together) consist of a strike dog( the dog of a pack that customarily first closes with game) and 2 to 3 help (1. to give assistance or support) dogs.

Some individuals will say they don't keep help dogs on their yard, they have some young dogs or some up and comers but no help dogs. Well....it is the rare occasion that a pack will divide the striking duties amongst themselves evenly. One dog will usually take the lead roll and be the primary dog to strike the game. He may be followed closely by another dog but by pure definition....any and every dog besides the lead dog serves in a helping roll and there is nothing wrong with that.

All this being said....I wouldn't begin to put all help dogs in the same class. The guys that have GREAT lines (not 1 or 2 dogs out of a great lines), a yard full of good blood, will also usually have grade "A" help dogs.

the reson fore asking i see a lot on here fore sale

all i can say is don't buy it

I wouldn't spend my money on a help dog I'd buy a young started dog that will go to a bay. At least then you have a chance of him making you a strike dog one day. I think though that some dogs won't ever be more than a help dog for one reason or another.

You and I are on the same page fella!

here is another way to look at it...if you take a 357 mag and one dog to the woods and you are confident that you will bring home the bacon you have a good hog dog...

if you take the same gun and take another dog to the woods and you feel like you are wasting your time then that dog is a cull or a me too dog...oops I meant to say help dog...

sometimes a good help dog can be what is needed to stop a hog pretty quick...might not strike a hog or will not hunt but will fly to a bay and that dog might be above average in keeping a hog from running...

just because a dog is good at finding a hog and sticking with it does not mean it is good at stopping a hog...but he will run a hog till it stops...

Man I do all this talking about help dogs....just want to make sure....maybe some of the newer guys understand where I'm coming from.

I've said plenty of times I don't mind help dogs and that ill keep them on my yard.
That's a true statement...BUT...I will continue to try and improve the quality of dog I keep in my yard.

I KNOW exactly what I want my dogs to be and while I work towards that I will use what I have.

Eventually I will get to where I want to be, a number of dogs that fit my style perfectly...and still....even then....I will have dogs on my yard that I consider help dogs. These dogs could be someone else's number one dog or they may be considered a cull to another hunter. It's honestly all about what you want as an individual.

One thing that won't change is what I consider a help dog.

"Anything on the yard but the #1"  ;D

Dam if he wont hunt out over a 100 yards hes a cull. Then most of my yard is yalls culls cause mine hunt off the hood.lol

1lead dog an all the others are still learning our they have a reason they cant out shin so they are all
help dogs that cant out shine your lead dog . an that goes for started dogs too if they can't do the lead dogs job then they are just help dogs too!

But understand...it doesn't mean that everyone's 2nd or 3rd dog CAN'T take the lead if necessary.

In my case...I don't actually know, lol. I've never hunted without my #1 so I can't say for sure. I honestly think my #2 could get the job done if I made her.

That's one thing that we probably ALL need to do more....leave #1 at home sometimes and let someone else step up. It's happened many times....old faithful gets killed and everyone's lost for a few months. Probably better to give others the chance to lead when we can. Hard to do though  :-\

Negative! How the heck are you gonna call a pup not even a year old a help dog????......its not that they can't they just havent yet.....a help dog is just that, its a DOG that wont ever be anything more than help at a bay ......hell if thats the case than my oldest and best in my yard is a help dog because he is helping my young dogs turn into solid dogs.......???

ya i give started dogs an pus the chance to shine if they cant prove there self's then they are just help if u have to drop a lead dog to find then all the others are help, im guessing its how u hunt an where u hunt!

Come to my house I have 4 help dogs. Lol. All 4 have and will find a hog. Not a one is a super star. I figure on most yards mine would be culls. One gyp will fly to a bay and has found her own hogs and finished them caught on ear. Another gyp hunts her tail off has found a few and finished them. Once stopped a fair size boar and kept it stopped till back up showed. One male is slow as Christmas. He has found hogs hogs but once the race starts he will fall to the rear fast. He is at bay when I get there and his mouth helps me find them because he won't catch and stay caught but keeps the back end lit up. My best dog has found hogs and will catch anything. He has passed hogs up at times that others hit. He has found hogs others passed. He is my fastest dog and if something gets going he is a streak headed to it. In a good bunch of dogs my dogs ain't much. When I hunt by myself they can do the job.

I guess my point is a help dog for some can be a strike for others. A dog that just hangs out till another dog does something isn't much but I guess if u run  one good dog it does offer a god target for a hog when it stops.

I've gotten a real bad taste lately for dogs that don't range out. I tried a dog for a few hunts that actually laid down and napped while bay was going on thirty yards away. I guarantee the worst thing for a good pup is dogs underfoot all the time.I hate walking a dog to pigs. I used to put up with it cause we still got pigs. I would rather start a dog by itself and lose a few hogs and get it in its b rain that its up him or her. the more independent dogs out actually looking for one the better any way you look at it.  I dont know about help dogs but me too dogs are just about worthless in my opinion.

if your gonna have help dogs they might as well be rcd.

Well i love help dogs!!! I will always have 1or 2 yes my deffenition is the same a dog that does not strike or not to offten but gets to a bay on the double...now my reason for this is because i like my strike dog to stay back!! Loose bay and let the help dog  do all the stopping and holding and with this methode ...i have yet to loose a good dog in 2y so it works for me .
..

This is just my own experience with help dogs......

I think that most young dogs just starting out are help dogs until they learn the ropes. By that I mean that we usually send our pups out to hunt with an older more experienced dog. Until the pup learns what it is supposed to do in different situations, it helps the older dog. It should eventually be considered a strike dog or if not, then it would be considered a cull.

You cant necessarily call a young dog a cull just cuz hes just helping lot of people dont realize if you want all your dogs to be good you uave to leave your main strike dog at home ever now and again this way it will give thwm the confidence and chance to find them on there own when a dog knows another dog will find the hogs they will allways be a help dog like i said unless you give them a chqnce to find there own. 

I've started just dumping out one dog on a track or in a block, i want EVERY dog i hunt to be able to go out strike and bay their own hog. Only when we get a race do i turn out another dog to "help" them. I find this way each dog learns it has to go out and find it's own hog.

I've never understood why a "good dog" or "lead dog" or "strike dog" needs help baying...  ???

But then again I've never seen a " jammed up 4 year old hog stopping help dog" ...  

If u dont shoot over ur dogs n run a catch dog n u say u aint got or wont feed a help dog, then how do justify ur catch dogs? If them burn up the woods bay n hold any hog on the earth cant bay, hold n catch it by itself, then by some folks definition "its a cull n aint worth feedin" same goes for the catch dogs, nothing but a help dog

Well for most people a catchdog had a job... A lot of folks don't want their strike dogs catching...  Heck I wish mine would NEVER put their mouth on a hog...

A catchdog is much more than a help dog... 

U r very correct trent, bout some dont want their strike/bay dogs catchn, but i would rather all the curs to catch, limiting the chances of needn a cd,  but its MY opinion, just like every1 else is allowed to have 1, that a dog that cant do it all, is a cull by definition from some. If a single bay dog cant hold the hog as good as havin 2 dogs, even though the single dog manages on its own, then the single dog is a cull according to some definitions of a cull. Same goes for the cd,  if that 1 single catch dog cant lock the brakes on the hog n is takin for a ride or slung around n it takes 2 catch dogs to get it shut down completely, then the catch dog is a help/cull. Its playin symantics, but its still true in a fashion.

I run a pair of help dogs/ me to dogs. I guess you could call them running cds when they get there 8 out of 10 times its a caught hog. They ranges out around 150 yards stay some what busy have found hogs, but they live to hear a bay start. Sure they may be culls dnt have a purpose on your yard but they suit me fine. And for me that's all I ask out of them I'm fine feeding them and they have a spot on my yard. Will I bread for this same style of dog dang straight I will but it will be for what they are solid helping muscle! I like to catch multiple hogs out of a sounder and tthis kinda dog does the trick for me. With out another mile race to get on another pig. We can catch 3 0r 4 pigs 30 and 40 yards a part at most.

Excelent example big chris. Them "help" dogs AINT help dogs, they suite u n ur hunting style just fine n the end result is pork on the ground. In that aspect, they r not "helpdogs/culls"! they r suitable for u.
A "help" dog aint neccesarily a cull, it could b a valuable asset to some.

I'm amazed at all the various definitions of a help dog... didn't realized it changed over the years. ???

Young dogs aren't help dogs, they're on their to way to being either a hog dog... or a cull. ;)

If you can't take a grown dog off of your yard and go find and bay a hog, by itself... you may need to take a hard look at your dogs.

Never agreed with you more Mr. Mike, I said the same thing in my above post...

Mike....i like what you are saying but i can do that take my main dog and go find and bay a pig ...but why take the risk of getting him hurt??? When i can run him and 2help dogs that will stop a runner and are very good dogs to take the hits and hold the pig till my cd gets there ..so i leave the woods with my strike dog unharmed...i see alot of people on here that loose really good dogs and 9/10 are gritty ...i prefer mine to not touch a hog that way i know i am not dropping a high dollar dog on the ground that is going to be ripped to shreads worst thing that happens is my "help" dogs get hurt but everyone hunts diffrent i think people that say theses help dogs are culls need to hunt with some people that use and utilize these dogs and prefer to have them to hunt with...and if you call your culls help dogs well heck send them my way!!!;-)

I'm confused at the statement, "two help dogs so they can take the hits."  That makes absolutely no sense to me. 

Y'all make it sound like a football game with this and that, so I don't guess I've ever tried to plan a hog hunt like this where I've gotta make sure I've got bodyguards for my hog dogs  ???

Just a question not wanting to stir any pot!
If your strike dog can find and hold the hogs long enough for help dog to get to them.  Why do you need help dog?

As long as the owner is happy with the performance of the their dogs, why should they hav to take another look at them? Just cause it aint accepted in a persons yard dont means its a cull, as long as the owner is happy.
I guess if a person cant leave their home, go to work and at some point needs help, they r a cull. I guess if a person cant pull a turbine eng or palm tree a rotor system by them selves safely, they r a cull. Some times its acceptable to hav help and more times than not, help is needed in all species of life on earth. I guess every coyote is a cull since 1 yote cant take down a deer by itself but work as a pack to put meat on the ground, same for a wolf or any other pack animal.

Okay first question what do you mean plan a hunt when your strike dog finds a pig it dont roll over and lay there it fights ...so you have help dogs to take the hits of stopping it .

No harm in asking ...usually my help dogs stay with my strike dog or close to him but either way before i send my cd in i want to make sure the hog is not going to bolt ..i have had this happen before my help dogs and you have turned the cd loose and the hog breaks and you wind up chaseing dogs pig so i like to let the help dogs get in there and me get closer then turn my cd loose....my help dogs dont catch they just bay and grab nuts or legs till it sits down hope that answered your questions

Nailed it !!! Could not have said it better....

Just like government work.

It only takes one good guy to dig a hole. But 5 are hired as "helpers" and sit and watch.When the hole is dug everyone says "man look at that hole" and all six take the credit.

Usually one is doing all the work and the others are thought they are needed.

EXACTLY RIGHT. Who wants a bunch of free loaders on the payroll

I honestly don't see the help dogs helping out in this situation at all, I see a busted bay. 

My find dog is doing everything he can to keep the hog bayed whether there is zero help dogs or 100 on the ground.

Help dogs are like Obama.. Ain't worth a crap but for some reason people still like em..  :P

How the heck can u disgrace even the chittiest dog by associating n comparing it with obuma? 1 chit eatin culled help dog is better than obama n his administration.

I guess who ever is feeding there cull help dogs want them on the feed bill. Why would any body want a dog that ranges out a 1 and 1/2 to bay up? Then here you go haven to go a bay. That's what you feed that's your right.I like my rough help dogs they suit me and do what I ask of them. Nothen more nothen less. They get done what needs to be done catch a hog. I don't have a lot of 10,000 acres spots so a good medium ranaged rough strike dog and a pair of rough help dogs is all I need and feed. Do you have to like them feed them or hunt behind, you sure don't... I love to! Maybe there culls in your eyes, but I catch hogs behind them. Sure I won't keep a dog that stays right at me feet I do like to see them stay busy out to 150 yards sometimes more sometimes less. But they better be flien to a bay or checking a dog that opens up. There trash broke so if they do come back it ain't a hog. They do find hogs, maybe there extremely short ranged strike dogs, to me there help dogs. They are what I like to run with a dog that does stretch out a little. Culls in your eyes good muscle in mine.

Exactly.
I personaly dont wanna go trompin a mile or 2 aftr 1 pig, when a short range cull can do the same.
Like bug chrus said, we all aint 1000s of acres with a population of 10 hogs per sq ft. I guess i could say a 1 mile rangin dog is a cull since i wouldnt feed it bc i aint gonna chase it that far. Yaws long range dogs r culls just as my chit eatn short range dogs r culls but im happy with my chit eaters

i wouldn't catch many hogs if the dogs didn't run a hog over a mile or two. i can say this if a hog wants to run its going to run no matter what where i hunt. its so thick the hog could be out the backside and the bay dog not even no it till the hog is way ahead of it. fast dogs do no good in these thickets

You must have started hunting culls, I mean help dogs when your ol lady started getting catahoulas...   >:D

Sorry buddy, I couldn't resist...  ;D

Trent its no secret I don't have any kinda love for a cat dog. But I honestly have to say she has a male dog that came off a good mans yard that passed away. He has good range hunts hard plenty of grit. All in all her thunder dog isn't to bad for a double glassed eyed crapahoula! And honestly I m talking about harley, she has slowed way doen with some age as far as range and stayen busy in the woods. But she will be there everytime. I think a hard life of hunting is catching her she comes up a little lame here and there. But she just can't stand be left behind at the house and I can't stande to leave her. I guess I have a soft spot for her. She's given me her all. And that dang cat of cammies get out around 8 to 1000 yards but checks in enough I dnt mind hunting with him to bad.

Well you are more than welcome to hunt with me anytime ill show ya how it works

That might be true in some cases but in mine all dogs pull there own weight! In my pack if it was not for my cull..i mean ;D help dogs the pigs would be miles cause my strike dog will stay the distance and do his best to keep it there but i better not get to a bay and him be holding on! Thats not the way i roll..i like to know i am not going to be looking for a strike dog every other month because its gritty and thinks its a cd ..wich its not!! His job is to find them my help dogs job is to set it down and bay it my cds job is to catch and hold it till i get there ...they know there jobs and do them perfect for me

How does the strike dog you have now compare to Tinley as far as when a hog breaks??

dang where to start um, my lead dogs can do it there self but i don't like guessing where its going to end because that takes time an if u want to catch the hog, then u my want to us a so called help dog that stops them in a different ways for instance a help dog that has more herding skills that will try to get ahead of the hog like a cow dog dose so a bay can stand long enough to close the deal, an a help dog is just a dog that's helping your main lead dog bay and that's including pups, started dogs..  just some 2 cents

Mike.....

IMO - The definition of "Help Dog" Is acute. That being said.....regarding ability.....the spectrum is grand! A "Help Dog" can be anything from a dog that keeps you company till the first bark (not my preference) to a well seasoned dog that strikes its own. The common factor among ALL "help dogs" is that they must contribute to the pack.....in one way or another they should help you achieve your goal. This could be a dog that specializes in putting the breaks on a hog if at all possible. It could be a small framed dog that gets through briars quick. It could be a leggy dog that will suck up a runner on open ground.

You could try and argue that an up and coming pup or a seasoned hunting dog that has or does strike hogs is not a help dog I guess but facts is facts....if the dog is not striking the majority of the hogs....he's just helping complete the job  ;)

I got tinley on a trade for a horse ....a 700dolar horse i went hunting with the guy she found a pig she was loose and it broke one time and she went  over a mile till it was bayed again i traded the guy started running her in my pack but she could not out strike my main dog nut so i ran her by herself she would help catch with rough dogs didnt like that about her and she would bark off and on when they broke did not like that either...as far as compare i wouldnt they both find pigs but there is a few thing i just dont care for as far as tinley goes ...my strike dog now has no flaws to me.

Touche Kevin!  i guess techinally a help dog is ANY and EVERY dog that ever gets to the bay second lol because by deffinition it is there to assist the first dog lol

When did hog hunting start using the dictionary and get technical?

You've got hog dogs, and then you've got culls...if you think you've got a good dog, hunt with a few people whose suppose to have good dogs and then pass judgement.  Here's a tip though, if it's a hog dog, people will brag on it for you, but if you are the only one crowing about your dog, well maybe it ain't.

Down Ben! Down!  ;D

I just think "Help Dog" has a negative vibe to it when that's not always the case.

I don't think there's a person on this site that wouldn't love to have nothing but "Hog Dogs" (that fit their style of hunting)

You cant just pick one up around the corner. Well, sometimes you can....but you get my point. It just ain't that easy.

That don't mean you can't make do with what you have while you have to.....and still catch hogs to boot!

Just have a plan and keep moving forward....that's the objective.

I like it!

Here is what I was trying to get at...

Tinley will find hogs, but to me she is a cull and here's why...

That dog is slower than molasses when a hog breaks... Being half a mile behind a hog and boohooing on track like a coon dog does not work for me...

Does she find hogs- Yes
Does she have bottom- Yes
But her track speed just won't cut it around here..
I can definately see why you would HAVE to run some other kind of dog with her....

Not downing you for selling him the dog in any way, I think he got what he was looking for...
But like said, every one has their style and likes/dislikes...

 everybody is entitled to their own opinion, just like everybody elses dog, they will all make a good pot of stir fried kagogi n rice. Them long range culls will hav lots of lean meat that would make a tasty dinner bowl.

Trent...agree with ya but she is close to 7y old she aient no spring chicken and you could tell before i got her she had been rode hard and put up wet ...shes a good dog but yes she does bark behind a pig one thing i cant stand about her  but i told him that ....but thanks for not downing her i didnt lie to him at least ..wich is getting pretty popular these days

X2    The 2nd part is about as real as it gets

Who has the right to call another mans dog a cull? Doesn't matter what someone else thinks about another mans dog. Cause if that's the case we all better start culling dogs, because somewhere someone else is gonna think your #q deserves a good casse of lead poisen. I'm just goen off what some of you guys are sayen on this one. That's my opinion. Who ever is running a dog that won't put any teeth on a hog is a cull in my book. If won't help catch cull it. If it won't catch # 100lb sow its a cull. I'm not gonna tell anybody there dog is a cull simple fact is I dnt feed it! Who am I to say so...

I don't think anyone is talking about anyone's dog in particular in this thread.  A hog dog produces hogs and I'll always have a spot on my yard for a dog like this whether pink, purple, Polk a dotted, short range, long range, rough, or loose, a hog dog will produce hogs on a consistent basis.

Now if you own the dog and you are calling it a help dog, then yes, I'm sorry, I'll pass judgement and go ahead and say I'd cull it. But hey that's my opinion, no need to get beside yourself about it.

.............day before yesterday, you musta not read this weeks "interenet hog doggers" newsletter ben  ;D

I can live with pink and purple BUT polk a dotted is where I draw the line!  :laugh: ;)

Ben hit the nail on the head right there. ;)

Kevin, I guess you can make up your own definition, but that's not what a help dog is. A help dog is a dog with zero hunt and finding ability that is sent to a bay, or race, to help bay the hog. That's been common knowledge as far back as I can remember.
 

not to be the guy to agree just to agree but I agree  :D........Like I said in my earlier post about my buddy that uses help dogs.....they RARELY hunt or find hogs for him but thats not what he keeps em around for, he knows they ain't strike dogs, they are there for 1 purpose and thats to shag ass to the bay and HELP the strike dog...... I have only been doing this for 10 or so years but that has been in essence what a help dog is as long as I can remember.....

Kevin, I guess you can make up your own definition, but that's not what a help dog is. A help dog is a dog with zero hunt and finding ability that is sent to a bay, or race, to help bay the hog. That's been common knowledge as far back as I can remember.
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I agree to add to this I don't feed help dogs.  I always have some young dogs and I don't want any excuses for them to hang around and not be out getting into something!   I would rather them be out trashing than under my feet..... A dog that doesn't hunt encourages a pup to pick up the same lazy behavior.   I would rather a pup be out trashing and not make it to a bay, than be sitting around waiting on someone else to do his job, then show up and say me too!

I agree to add to this I don't feed help dogs.  I always have some young dogs and I don't want any excuses for them to hang around and not be out getting into something!   I would rather them be out trashing than under my feet..... A dog that doesn't hunt encourages a pup to pick up the same lazy behavior.   I would rather a pup be out trashing and not make it to a bay, than be sitting around waiting on someone else to do his job, then show up and say me too!
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I agree help dogs can ruin a good pup

I see a dog like her or big Chris' Harley dog about the same... Harley may be considered more of a help dog now, but that's due to age and hard hunting, not because they just never flat out never was worth a crap...

But I would still rather run them with a dog that has the ability to find their on too...

X2 on what mike said...but will add that some me too or help dogs appear to be hunting but are only running with the strike dog...

Alright then! Doesn't really matter anyway I guess. One person will see a dog and call it one thing and another might call it something else.

One mans trash and what not....

If your happy and catching hogs I'm happy for you!   Keep it up and have fun that's what it's all about!  Being out in nature having fun, building life long experiences and friends, in the great outdoors.

true that!

I agree with that Kevin, wasn't trying to argue with you, just different strokes/opinions is all

It's all good Justin! Just talkin shop!

I have dog ranges btween 50 yds to 200 or so and he will sure enuff stop a hog hes a nut sack dog all the way when he gets there the hog is SITTiNG never fails some dogs are better at some things than others i may not be blessed witj dogs that put on there own gear and find tie and load wvery hog we catch like some people on here but ive never heard of a help dog being a cull all it means to me is they are on there way to being a hog dog thae people saying there culling there help dogs i sure would like to hunt with em so i can see what a real hog dog is

Well after reading all the different comments. And iv learned now after reading from all of this I guess my style of hunting requires culls. Cause when my 2 hood dogs come off the hood I send 2 or3 allagators with them to stop or catch. I promise my yeller dogs aren't bay breaker they catch as good as cds. Every body thinks different and thats wat make the world go around.
I personaly like catching hogs in short yardes. I dont care about hearing a dog race. Iv got long range dogs and I dont hunt them much cauae I hate tracking them.
I do agree every dog has a place and a job to do on my yard and not every dog on my yard is a strike dog, but he has a job and does it well. But I feed all 21 of them and dont care wat ppl think about my dogs or me in my sweat pants.lol

 ;)

I like it monty.

X100 monty. its urs, mine and others feed bill, they don't like them, the he!! with them, they aint gotta feed them.

That's right, all different opinions and all trying to get the same thing done, which is put your hands on some pork.  Nothing wrong with some arguments and discussion, everyone isn't going to agree all the time, it makes for some good reading.

I agree ben

I think I got it I got help dogs they will go out abought 400   500  and strike in hot sign

 ;D
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Damn... some of y'all boys are a little sensitive.

???

 :(

Suppose to be an arrow pointing to my signature.

Just agreeing with y'all, lol

 A dog over two better be finding and baying hogs alone. If not, that is a help dog and it is gone. If you really think you need a pack of dogs to find a bay a hog, get better dogs. I run 4 bay dogs at a time(most of the time) It is a gamble of who will strike first. The other three will honor the one who strikes first. Kill that hog and move on.......
 

 Cantex I think were monty and myself are trien to say about our help dogs is this. There not there to bay a hog or even find one, they are there to shut one down and in most cases catch a hog. I see a good rough short range or help dog being a short to medium ranged dog hunters bread and butter. Were there to wam bam and thank you mam a hog. Not run it a mile and a half after the strike. Sure we have runners in the case this happens I exspect my dogs to stay with it and finish the job. I just don't require them to range out 8 to well over a mile to go find one. I have no problem with my dogs hunting out to 500 and working every nook and cranny to find a hog or a good hot track and turning it over. When he does start moven faster and stretching out I know were fixen to be on it. I will start heading his direction. And as soon as he opens up or I hear a squeel its break neck time to get to them. When I head to him my help dogs better be able to run the same track or be headed to the bay or catch. With that said we still take a cd just because you never know what your gonna run up on maybe hogzilla... and all this a nice rough help dog or extremely short ranged dog that can find a hog just helps with the quickness of a caught hog. No it doesn't always work like that but it sure is nice when it does. I understand when y'all say a dog that doesn't do nothen other then wait for a dog to bay and then go is a cull. I wouldn't wanna feed a dog that only bays at a hog that is already at bay, that's why I like rough help dogs that are gonna go in and seal the deal. Mine do find hogs that's why I call them rough help dogs and not a rcd. They do hunt just not with a whole lot of range

I;ve learned alot from this thread.... I got some top notch help dogs. trash broke that you can always find when it's time to go. will stop a hog if another dog will just go find it. I wouldn't have thought they were worth 100.00 apiece before but now I'm putting them in the dog trade for 1000.00 each and buying me some dogs that will range out and find one. Because I like to have as many out looking as possible.I like them to at least range to two or three hundred yards.You will get on way more hogs with several out looking and thats a fact.

We caught a hog tonite 219 yards from truck.there was no running.

I thought your smiley was just getting turned on by all the others that like help dogs..   :P

I don't see why some are referring to short range dogs when talking help dogs...

Range is a style preference... I've seen dogs of all different ranges that find hogs consistently... And I've seen crap from all ranges too...

Like said, a HELP dog is one with no hunt and just goes to the bay to help BAY... Not a RCD, not a lead in bulldog, not a slowed down old strike dog, not a young started dog...  It's just a sorry piece of crap that doesn't bring anything to the table and serves no real purpose...

As I stated a ways back in this thread I agree with you BUT I think that alot of the differences in opinion are due to a variation in what people believe the definition of a help dog is  ;)

good lawd...6 pages later and we still can't agree on what a me too/help dog is...

I reckon that is one reason why we have so many culls out there...   :o  ;D

Haha! Nope

You know...it IS interesting though...how many hunting styles there are. People use all manner of dogs with differing abilities to accomplish the same goal.

You may not be able to tell by my posts, but I am honestly a traditionalist as it pertains to hog hunting with dogs. I don't use RCD's, I don't use the speed demon crosses. I prefer an all around strike/bay dog. Actually I prefer a yard full. Thing is....I'm not an elitist. I don't try to tell people there's only one way to hunt or that if their dogs don't perform a certain way that they are culls.

Ive said this before but I'll go ahead and say it again. I was educated by a couple guys that had fine dogs. Dogs that produced on a regular basis. They weren't rough catchy dogs but we didn't have many runners. Not every dog on their yard was an all-star but they were still functional dogs and got the job done until they were replaced by a better up and comer.

I won't speak for everyone but I will constantly strive to improve my yard. If its ever to to point I'm happy with it, we'll that's gonna be nice. Sure don't mean ill tell everyone else if their dogs ain't like mine they're culls.

40 years later you are still hung up on mountain curs... There is no hope for you anyways...  >:D

ok...you might be right...  :) but 40 years later I am just now starting to see some cow dogs getting a little hunt bred in them...must be the walker/plot/mt cur influence...  ;D  ;)

In my opinion the term "help dog" came about when people lost either the sense or the nerve to cull a dog or they just wanted to make a dollar.  Have I ever owned a help dog? Yes, but I don't now and won't again.