EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

An old timer in Texas was telling me tha the best bear dogs are 3/4 plott and 1/4 bulldog. For the life of me, I can't imagine a dog, no matter how ferocious, jumping a bear (like a hog) and surviving. What am I missing?

    bears climb trees . some bears need to be persuaded to climb .

And then some bears would rather fight it out...

Well I don't know who said that, but I would not agree.  Most of the bear hunters I know are up in the MI, WI, VA, and NC states.  They all use plotts and other gritty hounds.  Some bears need little pressure to tree and some need a lot (thus the need for a gritty dog); some bears will just stand and fight (bay).  Gritty pack of hounds will catch a bear like a hog and the hunter better be on top of the bay to kill the bear or he will end up with a caught bear and most likely some cut/killed dogs.  Bear hunters like gritty dogs and most of them have certain line bred dogs that get the job done without adding any bulldog.  Bear hunters also like open mouth dogs.

why would you want to add a 1/4 bulldog into a good plott? ;)

To add grit and the desire to catch would be my guess. An ole man i hog hunt with swears that combo is the best dog for catchin hogs but you have got to be handy with a staple gun. He said they used to use plott/pit or black and tan/pit.. Back in the 70's :)

Peachtree, you bring up an interesting point from someone else...

My position is (and most bear hunters I know would think):  If a plott or other hound is not gritty enough to catch bear, hog, or other game, than it is a cull and bulldog should not be added to increase gritt alone.  Maybe in some cases a hunter does not have other hound blood and the only option they have is crossing to a bulldog (I would not fault for that).  I can understand adding bulldog if a hunter wants to shorten the range, increase the chances of silence, and adding grit at once, and creating a RCD style of dog.  I don't know a single bear hunter that wants RCD style hound or dog.

I would have to agree. Most bearhunters who use plotts, do not need to add bulldog to get more grit. I can see it in the other breeds, Walker, bluetic, english or Redbone, B & T. Dont get me wrong, there are gritty hounds in all breeds, but overall, there are more gtitty plotts within their breed.
  Some bears will tree at the first bark when they hear a hound, some will run. some will fight. Some of the ones that fight, with a little persuasion will go up a tree. On the other hand, there are bears that no amount of dogs will make tree. They will fight or bay & no amount of pressure will put them up. I have seen as many as 15 dogs on a bear & he would not tree & believe me the pressure was on him. He was putting a lot of pressure on the dogs as well.
  Another thing about adding bulldog. While you need a gritty dog for bearhunting You better make darn sure you do not have a mean dog at the tree because it does not matter who starts it, whatever dog goes down, normally the whole pack will jump on him. The level of excitement that dogs go thru at the tree is very intense.On a hog, the hog is on the ground where the dogs can focus their attention on it, where a bear in a tree (which they might not even be able to see) a mean dog might start some crap.

This bear did not tree.
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/NC2_zps18815200.jpg) (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/lacauley/media/NC2_zps18815200.jpg.html)

This bear treed with 6 dogs

This is the bear that treed with 6 dogs

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/PupTraining036.jpg) (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/lacauley/media/PupTraining036.jpg.html)

Good pic is that some of your plotts?

Those pics make me miss bear hunting.

Hillbilly, In the second pic. the 4 plotts on the bottom & the real light red brindle  plott are mine.

man I bet they were singing him quite the tune! I can only imagine the adrenaline rush when you walked up and saw that!

Man that would be awesome to hear them hound singin. But I just couldn't shoot a bear.

You don't have to shoot. Just grab your dogs and go home. Run the same bear all week.

we use plotts an treein walkers both have just enuff gritt to get the job done as most will catch 100lb an below bear but real gritty dogs dont live long vs these big NC coastal bear

It seems that folks will add bulldog to anything....with the 'idea' that it'll make them better. That might work for hog hunting but not bear hunting. Bear hunting in the SE where I live is a bit different that other places,....a bear that climbs a tree down here is more than likely a dead bear, so they learn to run and run they do. It's the same thing as has been done with the hogs,....the catch and release folks have trained the hogs to run in my opinion. It takes some really hard core bear dogs to make a bear tree around here,....they have to pull some hair and basically make life on the ground too miserable for them not to tree. However,.....never seen a bear 'caught' on the ground as we see hogs get caught. Folks that have never fooled with a bear don't understand how fast a bear is when it's serious about fighting a bunch of dogs. They make a hog look like it's moving in slow motion seems to me.....it's plum unreal how fast and quick a mad or scared bear really is.....and any dogs that would catch a bear like a hog would be dead in short order. I saw a video that Tom (tnhillbilly) made a year or so ago that was the dangdest thing I've ever seen.....he was videoing his and another guys dogs treeing a bear,.....well the bear decides to come down and leave the scene, it backs down the tree and jumps right off into the middle of the dogs, they had several there at the tree, and the dogs actually caught the bear, not for long but they did catch it. It got ahold of one of Tom's dog's collar and made the dog squall thinking the bear had it by the neck......video went off right there.....lol But those dogs were as lucky as they get not to get killed on that deal.

If u need to add bulldog to a bear hound they might as well cull the "bear hounds" they are working with. The roughest hounds Ive hunted were straight walker dogs that were linebred by my dad and grandad in California. Then we had suicidal airedales to send for the bears that like to bay instead of tree, we went though alot of airedales :)

What fire medic says is the truth. Those 120# -180# bears can flat run a dog down & catch him. The bigger bear normally do not do as much damage altho when they do catch a dog, that dog knows about it.
  A lot of the real hard fighting dogs on bear are catchdogs on hogs. They just do not respect a hog like they do a bear. I have seen some dogs so bearwhipped that the minute they smell a bear, they tuck their tail between their legs & look for a place to hide.
  The toughest bearhunting I have done is in fla. where it is wet & thick.Back when fla. had a seaason. The coast of N.C. is almost identical. The easiest bearhunting I have done is NW Wisc. & Onterio. No matter where tho, like a hog, a bear will take you to the thickest place they can find.

Cajun,
Just got back from WV yesterday. Got on a lease and went to clear some trails. Saw some good bear tracks. Mysteriously some hogs got loose out there. I can start running my Plotts out there sept 7. Let the games begin!

Cajun,
Could you post some hog pics of the same Plotts?
swish

Dont know if this is the right place for them Jassen but here u go.
Had two guests from Sweden that came to hunt with me. Here is a pic. of him & the video of the catch. My plott Spud & Dancer, with my friend Charlies cur ran this hog a couple of miles & we found them bayed on the bank. Charlie turned to BMC pups loose to bay & that was to much for spud. He had enough & caught. spud is in the bear pic. with the orange collar.
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/photo21_zps78e54eaa.jpg) (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/lacauley/media/photo21_zps78e54eaa.jpg.html)


(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/th_MVI_1619_zpse2d50cc2.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/MVI_1619_zpse2d50cc2.mp4)

Riding down the bayou & got a good strike. turned the dogs loose & they caught a good sow & then relayed on another one. by the time we tied her, we could hear the dogs catch another one. About a 175# sow. gypsy(brown brindle) was on the bear in the second pic.

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/th_IMG_0193_zps9a75eec2.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/IMG_0193_zps9a75eec2.mp4)

Two of three boars we caught one morning. The boar on the right 3 of my plotts caught & the boar on the left we released.

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/2outof3boars2-17-13_zpsee6d3c88.jpg) (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/lacauley/media/2outof3boars2-17-13_zpsee6d3c88.jpg.html)

This boar killed my female Jag.(a pretty nice beardog)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/Bridgeboar1-27-13boatboxamptrouble005_zps8622e542.jpg) (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/lacauley/media/Bridgeboar1-27-13boatboxamptrouble005_zps8622e542.jpg.html)

Thanks Mike,
It is so awesome to see when a pack of hounds can tree bear and bay hogs. Hope you had a good 4th!
swish

p.s. Cajun, This thread started with a question about adding a 1/4 bulldog to a Plott to make it a better bear dog. I want to make the point is that you have pure bred Plotts, You acquired some dogs that did what you wanted. You bred in a manner that didnt need an outcross of bulldog to get the results you wanted on bear AND hog. Thats awesome breeding. i hope i take some good notes.
swish

Jason, Thanks for the kind words. There are a lot of plott hunters & breeders on here that have had remarkable success on both.
  Seth Mcalex comes to mind. He was practically born into the Weems bred dogs & has kept that line pure, along with Mark Mckenzie & James Brown.
  Not getting off the subject because it was about breeding 1/4 bulldog into plotts for bear. I personally would not do it, but for hogs, I have friends who have some awesome hogdogs with a 1/4 pit mixed in their curs & hounds.

Agree with with Cajun all the way.

Here is that video.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-tz9Vorys&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here's another one wouldn't tree.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8rNGr-9JnM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I don't see any reason to add pit to a bear dog. Thats just asking for trouble.
  A real plott don't need any grit added.

I kno this a bear dog conversation but I hunt hog behind my buddys 3/4 plott 1/4 & I sure as heck never remember findin or chasin after a hog even if he won't tree!!! Just sayin. Good luck

Couldn't spit it all out. Basically what I was sayin was if u find , then chase the bear before then call for the dogs u may need a cross! I don't kno anything bout bear huntin tho. Good nite

COA, I think I am following u. What you are saying is your buddy's dog catches the hog as soon as he gets on him & holds him. We'll I have pure plotts like that too & it will work for a while until that dog meets the wrong hog.lol Of course if the dog has enough help I have seen several dogs manhandle even a big boar, or at least until the ears give out.
  That will not work on a bear. If a dog clamps down on a bear & tries to hold him, he is going to be in for a world of hurt or worse. Now I have seen plotts stretch a bear & hold him & every year I know of dogs that have killed smaller bear. 150# & under. number 2 happens. My dogs have been in on it & no bearhunter likes to see it happen but for the most part if a decent size bear backs up to something it is a stalemate & all a dog has to do is stay bayed until the hunters arrive.
  Hoghunting as well as bearhunting, there is such a fine line between to much grit & not enough. Like I said in my earlier post, I have seen some awful nice hogdogs that were a 1/4 pit.

Good dogs learn how to fight a bear and a hog different.  I have a top female that will try to yoke about any hog, especially if she is fresh or hasn't been hunted in a while.  She has paid the price for this several times.  Most recently a couple of weeks ago she got cut all the way through her cheek and hit an artery inside her mouth.  She just almost bleed out on me.  This dog has virtually no respect for a hog.  However, that same female has the utmost respect for a bear.  I get way more dogs hurt on hogs than bears, but when a bear gets a hold of a dog, there is going to be some damage most of the time.

Seth,
We need to tallk pedigrees sometime. Ive got some Dale Burnside bred Weems dogs. Im pretty happy with them.
Swish

This bear was 780lbs 2nd biggest in NC he would not tree even with 25 head of hounds after him
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/KrazyGK/76705_495707177119193_445730473_n_zps4715fb5c.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/KrazyGK/media/76705_495707177119193_445730473_n_zps4715fb5c.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/KrazyGK/532458_495705613786016_2084044511_n_zps56e3744d.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/KrazyGK/media/532458_495705613786016_2084044511_n_zps56e3744d.jpg.html)

Thats a big dude.
I hope to see the day we may be able to hunt bear here in LA. with some dogs. I figure I am just dreaming though.

Any time Swish

I gotcha Seth. I was just having a good time with that video. No harm intended. Yes sir we do talk about sooner or later he ain't gonna make it out of 1 of those battles. He will bay em up if he can't catch them so maybe that helps keep him around. Take care

Here in Florida they just catch and release them! ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMgIIZrvxjU

http://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/wildlife/near-record-black-bear-captured-in-lake-county/2122633

We are working hard for a bear season! They are becoming a real P.I.A.

That is a nice bear NC Hog hunter