EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Heard this from a respected dog man one time and put it to use when I started breeding these cur dogs and placing puppies with people. Follow the guidelines and you'll get more pups from me. Sell the pup and you'll burn the bridge. What's yalls opinion of the guidelines?

You're right on the money... unfortunately, lots a folks don't seem to follow those guidelines.

You're right on the money!  I feel pretty strongly about this subject, and I know quite a few who don't like to hear what I have to say on it.

When you have as much work, time, and effort put into a line of dogs whether brand new or been around 50 years, the last thing you want is for someone to sell that pup you entrusted to them. It's almost as if when you price that pup, you're pricing your word, and that's something that takes a lifetime to build, and takes a second to destroy.

Especially if it's a FREE pup!!

Man I feel bad enough if a pup/dog that was given to me dies/gets killed. Hard to understand how someone could sell said animal. I always thought it was just implied...you get it for free....there are rules if you get rid of it.

My situation the pup wasn't totally free. I stated he didn't have to give me anything but he donated a hundred when he picked up the pup. $100 isn't crap for these dogs and I can get a whole lot more but I'm not in it for money.

I just had a conversation about this last night with my wife. She was upset with me about culling a dog i had raised from a pup. My wife kept insisting I should have given the dog to a young hunter or to someone as a pet. I was trying to explain to her that the guy i got the pup from doesn't like just anyone having his dogs. The right thing to do in my eyes is to check with who ever gave you the dog first and foremost before doing anything with the dog. It burns me up having to get someones blessing to do something with a dog that I have fed for a few years. But i exspect the same respect from someone i might give a pup to. Just my thoughts on the subject.

I am firm on this notion. If I place a dog with someone, (which doesn't happen very often), I always make it clear that if for any reason they cannot keep the dog, I want to be notified FIRST and at least offered the chance to take the dog back. If/when I receive a dog from someone else, I ALWAYS abide by this rule.

I have ended friendships over this same issue. If I allow you to have a dog from me. Run it by me first if it doesn't work out. Most likely I will say do what you need to do but if you don't give the respect to the person you got the dog from don't expect another one. The best and most cherished dogs I have owned were free and I have always tried to let the breeder in on whatever I was doing with them in case they wanted something back.

Every pup that has left my yard did so under the same conditions.  I also added this...that if for some reason the dog was to be sold, that I was given first chance to buy at sellers price.

There are times I could see, where perhaps a hunter gets out or some other circumstance arises which would requre ridding of his/her dogs.  After assumably putting many hours work into a dog I would never expect that the dog should be GIVEN back to me.  Therefore, it has always been my policy that if that situation arises, I would purchase.  I'm not talking about pups...I'm talking about an older dog that has grown and aged.

 I feel the same way bryant. If they put the time in and finished the dog it's there's to do what they want.

More people need to wake up an relize this. I gave a dog to a person  and told them i wanted the dog back i they get rid of the dog then they mess the dog up then call me asking how much they could get for the dog. Seriously people these days tho.

If I'm given a dog it is not completely mine. It to me still partially belongs to the giver unless I'm told otherwise.

If I pay for a dog then it belongs to me. At this point I can do as I please with it. With that said I will give the man that I bought said dog from first option.

I have never sold a dog and probly never will. To be honest if I don't won't a dog chances are I have a real good reason. Selling it to me is cheating another man. Giving him same dog is letting him see if it works for him. I would like the opertunity to get it back if the decide to get rid of it also. If it's no count tell me and then shoot it.


Shotgun
Arkansas

Some dogs i have bought has been deals where the seller wants double for the breeding rights an his pups an young started strike dogs range from 400 to 1000 with out breeding right!   but i can care less for the breeding rights! Good dogs come an go And if you train a few young good dogs off them it's worth the money!   CULL IT IF ITS NOT STRIKING BY 1 1/2YEAR!  To find good dogs u have to have dogs come an go!

I have never sold a dog and don't plan to. But if I had to decide between selling a dog and feeing my kids then I would sell a dog. But I woul call the person I got the dog from and explain everything first. It don't matter if I paid for the dog or it was free. The way I look at it the dog is mine to do with what I want. But there you need to show the due respect to the person you got the dog from. When I get a dog I plan to be the person that burries that dog but that is because that is how I buy most things. But just like when those baseball sluggers knock a ball out of the park and expect the person to just give it back are crazy so is expecting to get a paid for dog back for free. The sluggers make big money and that prized ball could change my life. Well a dog ain't that big but I would allow the slugger to match the top bid on the ball. I would exoect someone to call me up and tell me what was up and if the dog was good then I should pay what the dog is "really" worth not some crazy dog trader price. if the dog was free and it don't work out and you don't want it then you should bring it back. I would give the donation back because they are also out feed and time but they knew the risk so nothing extra.

If you expect "Keep it, kill it, or bring it back" then be sure you say so before anyone takes a dog so everyone knows where you stand and the other person can ask any quetion to clear things up before they take a dog.

If you expect what the title says then raise your dogs accordingly and don't piss and moan when you are selling 5-6 litters a year.  I can understand and believe it's the way it should be done when someone is putting a few pups to hunting homes, but when you are breeding for money, then don't complain, it makes you look like an idiot.

Well I guess everyone has a opinion but if I give you a dog it is yours you can keep it sell it or cull it!!it is yours to do with it as you want. But if you let someone know you want it back if they don't want it they should honor that!!

Gave my buddy Swamphunter a pup this week out of a well bred litter.
The pup was a gift, I dont expect anything back. He can make it a pet, hunting dog, cull it to his standard not mine if need be. His dog not mine anymore.
I have two dogs in my yard now that have buy back rights to the guys I got them from. They are not puppies. If I buy a puppy im gonna keep it or cull it.

I kind of think if you buy a pup, for whatever price, its not for you to decide what happens to it. That excludes specific but back agreements. That being said, I was sold a dog and given a pup by the same guy, a hunting buddy, he cut me a deal on that dog. were I to decide to sell the dog I bought, I'd tell him and sell it back for what it was worth, probably what I paid. But I gave that pup back, I think it's a courtesy to offer paid dogs back with no previous agreement, its an unspoken rule to give back a free dog.

I meant sell... It's too late for the Internet...

Im am in no way a dog trader or puppy mill. Just a guy trying to keep a line of dogs alive from some of the best men I know and have ever met. I tried to place pups in the hands of honest people that would do right by them because 1 person can't do it on their own. It was made clear my conditions and all money's would have been returned. I didn't come close to recovering the cost of the 2 litters that I raised. To make a profit off someone's reputation(not mine), time, and hard work is just wrong. If I was to sell a pup I wouldn't have any say in what the purchaser wanted to do with it and if they put the time into the pup and made a dog then sold it for big money I would not mind that at all either.

Who was this directed to? People who breed for money don't give a crap about what happens or where their pup ends up.

It wasn't directed at you Ben...I know what line you have and what you are trying to and I understand the trouble you are having.  I just threw that statement out there, cuz that's how I personally feel about it.  I know quite a few lines that without them helping young guys out or placing pups in hunting homes, I wouldn't own a few dogs I do own, but these people also don't sell pups , same as most of the ol time cowboys. I just wanted to make it clear there's a I've difference in pups from a well bred line that places pups and one that sells most every dog outta every litter that hits the ground.

Easiest way is keep it close with friends or family. Occasionally putting one with a younger hunter that shows motivation and sensibility. Explain the terms up front and stick by them. The folks that you place dogs with.......keep track of them and listen to the compliments or complaints ..priceless information to adjust your breeding + or-   .

If the dog does come up for sale without your permission ......Go buy it back and shut the opportunity for future pups completely down upon successfully regaing the dog.

Keep money completely out of the equation unless repoing line stock.  Even feed expenses.  If you cannot afford to raise a litter and place them where you want......dont raise one or keep what you need and cull the rest upon birth.

Doesn't take long to figure out a dependable circle........if you keep it small and erase the monetary aspect.

quite a few folks don't appreciate the time, hard work, and the money it takes to produce a great line of dogs...I have given away 2 top pups to a man and a little over a year later I hunted with him and when I asked about the pups he never gave me an answer...but he probably places very little value in a dog...he never had a pack of his own...had the same happen a few other times...the best advice is never offer a pup unless they are true dog men/women.

the other day a lady was trying to place a nice pit bull bitch and I told her I would give her a good home if she was calm and made a good catch dog...she said she would but that she would like to come and see her or call about her every once in a while...I had to decline that offer...that has happened to me more than once...

for one person to hunt and breed a good line of dogs that person needs to keep at least 10 dogs...6 dogs to hunt at all times and one of those pregnant and at home at times, and 3 to 4 half grown pups to select from and replace one grown dog with one or 2 of those pups at any given time...that has to happen to keep improving and moving forward with the line/strain...

in order to keep less dogs at home and produce a good line of dogs then one must give away pups to folks who will hunt the right way and who appreciate a good dog...then you can breed back to the pup if it turns out exceptional...so agreements and handshakes to seal the deal have to be made...for me it is not about money, but there is going to be a free breeding or 2 involved because of that free pup...it is about producing better dogs and not about money...

the other option is to have 2 or more hunters/breeders involved in the breeding of a better line of dogs who basically have the same goals and can agree on what a good dog is...so all are sharing each others dogs for breeding...breeding better dogs and have consistency and overall improvement of said line...

seems like I got off subject but in reality most of these deals come about because we don't have the room or the money to feed extra dogs...so we get creative on how we can stay connected for the betterment of the strain...l

Well Ben, bad news is you got took advantage of, good news is, the list of folks in line for the next litter just got shorter, cough cough cough...
Lol

Sorry man, couldn't pass that one up.  ;)

Keep it kill it or bring it back. That about sums it up

I told myself I wasn't going to get involved in this, but what the heck. I'm the person who purchased  the puppy from Ben. Their were no stipulations in the deal. I'm not hunting anymore so I sold the now nine month old pup to a person I know will use him. I didn't realize my money was only a charitable contribution. Who else gave "donations" for their puppies? Also why are you contacting the purchaser wanting to know what he paid? This all seems really childish to me.

Also if my memory serves me correctly you are the one who was advertising puppies under your mentor's  name when you got in a bind and needed money. I also know you didn't disclose all the information about those dogs. I have never used anyone's name to sell a dog. The one dog I tried to sell on here I gave to my buddy, and you all have seen many post about him.

I have to correct myself. I've tried to sale five dogs. I sold Ethel and the rat terrier. I gave the other ones away. I honestly don't remember any stipulations on the pup. I do remember you stating you didn't like red faced dogs so here's your pup. I'm done with this.

As far as burning bridges, after the explosion I found out who my friends were. Yes I was effected, my wife's school was destroyed, people I knew died. I never heard from any of y'all up there. I have never lied or cheated anyone out of anything. My good name means alot to me, so don't get on here and try to run it down. I should of ignored the whole thing but I don't cotton to your  ways.

Since I'm awake and ticked off. I thought I'd mention that I had to take the newly purchased puppy to two vets. I suspected inguinal hernia and first vet said yes. I started to dispose of pup but decided to go to another vet. After alot of palpation vet decided it was really swollen lymph nodes from a large infected sore in front of an on puppies sheath. This was from him dragging it on a poorly constructed dog house. I should've never got the puppy, then all of this wouldn't of happened.

Brent you lIve and learn. I told you right before you left my house. Then when u called me with the news the vet gave you I told you to come and get another. You insisted on giving something for it even though I tried to decline. I didn't use anyone's name to advertise cause there was no advertising and was never in a bind for money, I didn't even come close to covering what those litters cost me. I'm not running your name down you outed yourself,  sorry for the effect that the tradegy of the explosion in west has had on you, didn't know if or how u were involved.

Brent what information did I not give about the pups?

We have given pups away in the past from accidental breedings between two good dogs but honestly when it comes to the pups that im breeding for us, I prefer to cull the ones that we arent going to keep. When we do give a pup away im very picky about who gets it because I absolutely belive in keep, cull, or bring it back.

After reading the whole thread I thought I would add this ...... while I do believe in keep, cull or bring it back when someone gives a pup or dog away..... I also believe that if someone pays money for a dog or anything else, it belongs to them completely to do with as they wish. Lock stock and barrel. When money is involved its a game changer in my opinion.

Many a bad and hard feeling has been done over the years with this kinds of things.  Here's the truth about strings attached .  Threw many dog strings attached dealings over many many bulldog years .  I came to the conclusion if you are I wanted the dog we should not have gotton rid of it in the first place be it sell, give are what ever.  After all of this and many a hard feelings threw the years this is my thought on it now a days.  When I give you a dog are sell you a dog,  the dog is yours I hope that you will do right by the dog .   Therefore you can do what ever you want with the dog its yours no strings attached because Strings attached is just "your are my use to be" a insurance policy that if the dog makes a great one you have something to bitch about if the man sells it, bbq's it are does something that the seller does not like are what ever .  I know because I was in the same boat with the bulldogs for many, many years and still in the boat some with the cur dogs.  That's why I said strings attached when giving, selling are what ever is a crock and if you are myself didn't really want to get rid of the dog then its on you if you give it away are sold it.   Strings attached is just a ferterlizer field for a bunch of bitching to get started and many a hurt feelings on both sides of the ball because it then becomes a he said she said BS game and one are the other being wrong with on lookers not knowing which and taking sides just because they know people involved and names being tarnished before it is all said and done.

Keep it are cull it but if you sell it are give it away don't leave the strings out of it because then you are telling me you are getting rid of something you really didn't want to in the first place and want to be able to lay your hands on it if it turns out great and vise versa if it not what you think it should be but the owner does then it gives you the right to bitch about that also . 

Strings are BS ! 

 

My dogs go to other people in one of three ways;

Ill sell one to someone thats not a close friend, in that case its theirs.  I take what i feel is fair and its the end of my involvement, its theirs to do with what they want.

I will give one to a pet only home, in this case it saved me a few cents and im done with it.

Ill give one to a CLOSE friend, in which case ive probably begged borrowed or stole somethin from them and its their dog to do with what they please.

Just my .02

Well I paid for a dog and it turned out to be a cull. The discussion was on here and the seller never offered me my money back or asked for the dog. But the dog's name brought up another person's reputation. I did not realize it when I posted about the dog. When I did I asked Mike to remove the thread to protect someone else's name. The person that got their name brought into it told me that I paid for the dog so I could do whatever I wanted with the dog. But did give a recommendation. I have honored that mostly out of respect for the person who's line of dogs my dog came from. I did not get on here and bash anybody or whine about it. I took it as paying for an education and won't get another dog from that person. I guess I grew up rough and am used to learning things the hard way. But I do my best to never put a bad light on people even when they deserve it. It just don't do anything good. If I have problem with someone I just go talk to them. I think a little sit down and talk can resolve most problems. I think a shade tree with two chairs and a cooler full Dr Pepper is a great way to work things out. Beer might make it worse so save that for another time. If that don't work go down to a boxing gym and put on the heavy gloves.

I think if someone gives someone a dog it's theirs to do as they want. It's a gift not a back up plan for down the road. In the dog world it's a lot of jealous people and I could see where the breeder of the pup could get a little jealous if the dog was sold after it was a gift to someone and the buyer made a shur enough dog out of it one that was better than any on the original breeders yard, I'm not saying this is the case with anyone on this board but it could possibly be true somewhere out there.
 Let me ask y'all this the ones that say bring it back. If you give some one a pup 6 weeks old and 1 yr down the road this dog is bad ass and someone offers 5 grand for the dog which is reasonable price for a superstar 1 yr old dog are they such bad people for selling the dog. Would you sell the dog with someone sittin there with 50 one hundred dollar bills in their hand. Or call the person you got it from and offer to give it back let's just say you didn't like the dog that much it was to gritty or to loose whichever is opposite to what you like to hunt

back when I was breeding a consistent line of dogs I very seldom sold a pup and only gave a few to friends and no one else around this area...I did not expect anything back but it was understood that if I liked the pup once it matured into a hunting dog that I would breed it back to one of my dogs...always a male pup never a female...even though I gave a few females I would not ask for a breeding or a pup from her unless she was bred to a male I liked and I liked that pup as well...

I sometimes tried to place a top pup with someone because I saw a lot of potential in that pup but I didn't have the room to keep it at that time...that usually happened when I liked another pup just a little better...the thing that bothered me about some of my gifts to others was that sometimes they were not appreciated...when we spend hours and days planning a breeding and years on a line of dogs it is hard to see a pup running loose and ranging out and crossing hiways and you tell the new owner to put the pup up because it will get stolen, ran over on the hiway or eaten by a coyote...and 2 weeks later you see the pup dead on the road...I didn't have the right to say anything...but I still remember...and I chalk it up to experience and I have to remember that some folks are in it for the sport of catching hogs and not for breeding better dogs...

only thing I can say is that a deal is a deal...but when it comes to dog and loaning money is like this...on money don't loan more than your willing to lose...unless it is my kids I expect them to pay me back if it is a loan and they will know about it if they don't honor the contract...it's not about money it is more about the lesson...

with dogs we have to understand that not all folks have the same standards/character as you or me so the best thing is expect the worst and hope for the best...this way we don't feel as let down and we will just have to move on...