EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Astounds me the interest in registered dogs.

Paying for papers!?!

I just don't get it.

It's just like when people pay too dollar for name brands instead of just getting the same thing (knockoff) for cheaper.. It's all about the "title" of owning a registered dog. Especially when it comes too showing your dogs off. I don't care much for it. I just like catchin pigs lol

It's not the papers that are important...it's the pedigree ;)

You don't need papers to have a pedigree.

DON'T YALL KNOW ?

BRAGGIN RIGHTS BABY , BRAGGIN RIGHTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THATS ALL IT IS AND TO SAY I GOT THE TIGHTEST MONKEY PUNK BRED DOG AROUND !

Ive hog hunted along time and papers my be nice to some,ive had my own dogs 25 yrs and have worked and caught hogs with them for along time,i breed enough to keep my yard fresh,and the rest to my dad and brother,no papers just hog dogs.

Aint nobody said yaw gotta buy them papered dogs. I know a guy who wont register his dogs, but he keeps a notebook with what dogs were crossed with what, may not be registered, but they r papered so to speak

I get your point charles,we have the same thing its a log and goes all the way bk to my grandad.i guess i do have papered dogs.so to speak,each there own,ive been thinking of getting a couple yellow pups,to start how i wont them to.just havent figured were to get them.

Better set up a pay attention when ya run across folks  like you just described.

That notebook paper ink had held more great dogs than any stamped and recorded documents.

^^^I like^^^

Exactly, he dont like all the bs that goes registering dogs but he keeps maticulous records of his breedings and it aint for bragging rights, its so he knows which dogs produced the best dogs n which dogs not to cross over again.

True dogmanship at its best.    Keeping it pure and untainted. Doesn't get any better in my book.

I used to do a lot of duck and goose hunting and sure wanted a top notch labrador to train.  I went through I don't know how many labs I got from 'proven hunting' stock out of the San Antonio Express News Classifieds.  Some were papered, some weren't.  But none of them made the grade.  I was taking all of them to a professional retreiver training to train.  After I don't know how many culls he finally had the courage to ask me, "If you your goal was to buy a horse so you could win the Kentucky Derby, would you start by looking in the news paper?"   ???
With his help, we found a well bred female in Oklahoma City.  The owner had her flown to Lyons, Michigan and bred her to a top male.  Both dogs were from proven pedigrees and proven stock.  I paid him in advance, $600.  I drove to Oklahoma City to pick her and so began our journey.  That female was worth every penny, going on to win in hunt trials and never embarassing me in front of friends, family, or professional guides where ever we hunted.  Many a guide warned me when I showed up with her, "if she ruins my hunt, it's on you!"  Every one of those guides offered to buy her before the hunt was over.
So knock papers all ya want, they there is a place for them and for people that want to know what they are are getting.
Many of you know of my Boo dog that I got from Chris & Brandee 12 years ago.  Half Plott, half Mt Cur.  A top notch strike dog that has been hunted in just about every environment in Texas, from the panhandle, the big thicket, the rice patties of El Campo, the pines of Tyler area, and the cactus of south Texas.  I never bred her and many have asked why not.  My question was always the same.  Breed her to what?  She's already a half breed.  Breeding her to anything is a crap shoot, a wild gamble at best.  And this world is full of pups from those failed attempts to create the next best dog.
I decided to pass and stick to full blood dogs.  Did I do it because papered dogs hunt better?  Nope, just that I figured if wanted to breed my own dogs, I'd go with a proven line and start with a solid recipe.   
Hog doggers seem to be the only, or at least the leaders of the pack, dog men that love to mix and match when it comes to dogs.  Duck hunters don't cross their labs with another breed to improve their retriever ability.  Men that work stock don't keep breeding their blue healers to other dogs to make them better herders.  Quail hunters don't cross their pointers to make better bird dogs, nor do ropers breed their quarter horses to other breds to make them head and heel better?
But when it comes to hog dogs, burn the papers, muddy the water, and hope for the best.
To each their own, and I wish them the best.  But for every $50 dollar dog I've culled, I could have bought fewer papered dogs and probably been way ahead of the game.  I know, for me at least, I am culling way less and having far better results.  But that's just me and my potlickers.

Labs, bird dogs, quarter horses?

I doubt ANY of these would benefit by being crossbred. I'm not gonna say I know a damn thing about ANY of the above...but....how many ways are there to retrieve a duck?

Apples and Oranges IMO.

There are MANY different styles of hog hunting. NO ONE DOG fits everyone's style. In an effort to "build" a dog that suites a person perfectly....sometimes crosses are necessary.

Sounds like your crossed up dog and it's abilities only solidify my point.

Is there a registered dog (line) out there that would suite me to a "T"? Don't know....and I'm not really thinking I'm gonna shell out $300-$500 a pup to find out. My unregistered dogs produce pork and I'll just keep chugging along...doing what I'm doing until I "build" exactly what I want.

 :D

Come to think of it kevin, didnt u buy u register/papered catahoula some time earlier this yr or later last yr? I do recolect u posting about it saying it was ur first papered dog.

Iam with you my cat blood in my yard goes bk to my grandad,wat he wanted,was a dog to find bay and hold hogsandcows in the woods,in his time he had a thousand head of hogs and cows wearing his mark,my dad grew up in this,time,they also wanted a dog that would protect the home place,watch over kids and so forth,they got a dog from aubrey lipsey,and breed it in to there line,thats the only out cross,till this day .and this line of dogs have caught hogs for over a 100 yrs,ive been wanting to cross with one of mr.oval s,plotts for a colder nose.to each there own,it dont take fancy papers to catch hogs.

A dog being registered is not the problem...the problem lies with people buying those dogs and paying big money under the false pretense that just because they're registered that they are better than anything else.

Every one of my dogs have papers....papers that I've written out and filed in my cabinet.  Perhaps a couple friends and I are hunting and raising the same blood dogs which we are keeping records of and sharing.  That's how most registries are begun.  I really don't see what the fuss is all about unless its simply a jealousy issue.  

If your breeding dogs with a purpose and NOT keeping any records, then your spinning circles.

Ooops, nvr mind, it wasnt a yr ago, it was a couple months ago, back in spet u posted her n now ur baffled why anybody wants to buy a papered dog. Aint that the pot callin the kettle black

Yes I did Charles....and I ended up sending her back...but not for any reason other than a .....? Wrinkle? In my road, lol. Had Nothing to do with the pup or the line.

I can honestly say....I was REAL interested in seeing how she was gonna turn out. Would she have been MY perfect dog? I don't know. I CAN say....if I ever was to get serious about a registered line of dogs....her daddy's line/blood would be where I'd probably start.

As far as the papers went...they didn't matter... As a matter of fact....it was an ACCIDENTAL breeding. I just wanted a pup out of THAT specific dog. It just so happened that that accident was with another papered dog.

I guess I'm more with Bryant on his way of thinking.

x2

Then why all the hu-bub over startin this thread then? U saw something in that paticular line/breeding of cats, but like i commented on ur post when u posted her "oooo, ur gonna get chastized for buying papers" n now ur ?ing why other people would buy a dog with papers. I can understand u putting her up for sale to make ur wife happy but if not for making her happy, why did u send her back if it wasnt at no fault of the pup?

That first paragraph is my thinking exactly

I sent her back because it was the right thing to do. Back to the man I got her from....not sell her for a profit.

Honestly... There was a litter previous to her that was a planned litter... Same Sire....unregistered Dam. I was more interested in that litter but wasn't able to get a pup. Like I said...I just wanted a pup out of THAT dog....registered or not didn't matter.

I my have to try to reg.my pot lickers ....just a thought,i can say this wen i do get a coupl yellow dogs they will have papers.is it because i wont papers no,i just wont to know everthing i can bout pups background.is there honest ppl yes,but iam not taking chances,if they dont turn out i wont bellie ach bout it,i will cull hard,anybody know were i can find 2 good pups?

Cole, ck ur pm

I can completely understand that kevin, but if u sold her for what u gave for her (unless there was an agreement between u the guy u got her from, that she was to come back if u were to get rid of her) then u wouldnt be profiting, ud b in the hole for feed n transportation n so forth, but again i understand ur reasoning. Only thing i cant understand is even though u wanted a pup from the other litter, unpapered, u buy paper n then ? why others buy papers.
 Bryant made a very good point too that folks r breeding on paper alone, watering the line down.

Charles, I don't think there was an agreement per sei but it's just the right thing to do and I offered and he accepted. As far as the rest goes ...Bryant's wording was more my thinking.

DSmith . U ever think the problem was the trainer not the dogs. I know folks that train labs for a living and in my opinion from what I seen they ain't worth a hoot. They blame the dog. Now u get them a dog that is just right they look like superstars.

I don't knock papers but I don't put much stock in them either. I put stock in dogs. A good dog is a good dog. Papers do have a place but they are just record not pedestals.


Shotgun
Arkansas

A lil off topic but it does go with the papers issue. DSmith the labs of today are two different breeds. basicly Show dogs or hunting or field trial stock. I used to train & field trial dogs & like every other breed, there are a lot of sorry Labs out there.
  Catahoulas are the same way. Most of the Registered Catahoulas are either Show dogs or baypen dogs.Very few can do both./(No hate mail please.) There are a select few people who are breeding top registered Cats.
  For sure papers do not catch hogs & maybe it is easier for some to cross dogs to get their desired traits they want in a hogdog. To each their own & whatever makes them happy.
   For myself in my plotts, I know what is in their background for 7 or 8 generations & I can pretty much tell how a paticular litter is going to turn out. Do I still get culls? Of course, but show me somebody who dosent. Do I feel like I am over charged for registering my dogs, I do. But I will continue to register my plotts as long as they make me happy.
  My cur dogs that I used to have were never registered but at the time most were not back then.
  Also remember that papers are only as good as the integrity of the person breeding the dogs.

an old saying that holds true =  the further back you can see , makes the future more easily predicted .

 I have both on my yard as I am not kennel blind and like the quote states predicting the future is made much easier by knowing the past . hand written or sent in to a registry is all the same . all the registry's do is allow a wider base of ancestors to be documented  . it doesn't mean every pup will fart a hog track just like in undocumented dogs . you don't want an association documented dog don't buy one , go get you a crossed up 8 way cross from them jammed up dogs that were accidents at best . I like a cross dog and have a yard full of them . and I like a pedigreed dog to form the foundation of the crosses . just me and the way I like it .

Great points.

I think the main times that registry paperwork gets 'negative' attention or comments is when you see folks trying to sell dogs and using registry paperwork as a selling point. I had started that thread a while back, addressing the whole 'PR bred' b.s. as an example. Or when folks will place ads like '$200 without papers, $400 with.'

Nothing wrong with paperwork. Some good recipes kept on them pieces of paper.

Well Robert....it's a little different story with you, your an upstanding fella....for the most part....your pups go for the same price...registered or not.

I can say the same for a couple other guys I know as well....BUT....there are WAY to many registered dogs going for $300-$500 or more per pup that ain't got no better chance at making it than any other pup out there.

Anyway...I said my piece... No need to dwell on the subject.

If you earn your money you deserve to spend it how you like I guess.

"for the most part."

That could be misinterpreted, lol

I meant....

for the most part... His pups go for the same price.

NOT

Your an upstanding guy... For the most part....

Ha! Ha!  ;D

So as long as yaw r buddies, its ok to buy papered dogs, breed them n then sell them, but not ok for others to do it? Even though not all the others selling papered dogs r doin it for just money, its wrong for them to buy n sell papered dogs? That sounds a lil double standard. as long as their in that clique, its ok, but if ur out of that circle, its a no-no to do it.
Even it u didnt mean for it to be interpulated like that, thats how it sounds, to me at least.

Good lord Charles...

I'm usually better at communicating my thoughts....I think I failed this time.

Bryant said more or less what was going through my brain....what I failed to communicate:

"A dog being registered is not the problem...the problem lies with people buying those dogs and paying big money under the false pretense that just because they're registered that they are better than anything else."

THAT is what "astounds" me...with all the information provided on this forum...people still are paying, IMO, exorbitant amounts of money on a chance.

As far as "my buddies" I've got 2 friends that have papered dogs and neither one asks more for their dogs than most people do for non papered dogs.

"That's all I have to say about that" ~ F.G.

Well I waisted 5 minutes of my life that I'll never get back from reading this thread.  If you like papers...fine.  If you dont, thats fine too. 

I agree with both of you...

I myself like mt curs but I have had a real hard time finding exactly what I like...crossbreeding two different breeds of dogs and then breeding back to the mt cur is how I did the first time and am following the same process now Parker/kemmer and back to some of my old mt cur line which is kemmer and original...

I don't care about papers but papers sell...

I need a little paper every time I have a bowel movement.

DSmith, all I got to say is Damn you are spot on!!!!!

To a lot of folks papers don't mean anything if much at all. Some times I wonder if it's even worth the trouble myself.  I often wonder this... unless you know the breeder and you have complete confidence in their breeding program do you really know what your getting???  There are folks that put  false papers on dogs everyday just for the $$$.  You can really be surprised when you breed a "pure bred" gyp to a "pure bred" male and get two or three pups that don't belong.  To go even further than that some registries will do nothing about it.  The best advise I can give is to call, visit and do a little research. See what they got and get what you want. At the end of the day the papers aint gonna tree no coon or bay no hog.

Quite possible the best reading on this forum!!!!!!!   Cross-breeding everything in the world is nothing more than a half-hearted attempt to shortcut your to the dog of your dreams.   

there is no doubt about what DSmith has said is 100 percent right...to get a great duck dog one needs to look for the great breeders of these dogs...folks that are down right serious about the water retriever that lives and breathes it...the breeder that produces great dogs that are known to be hunters and field trialers...those guys advertise in magazines like Ducks Unlimited etc...etc...breeders are like any other profession...you have a few below average, and the majority average, then you have the above average and the few that are the elites...but even the average breeder is better than looking in the newspaper want ads unless the dogs in that advertisement come directly from that great breeder...

and DSmith is right about all the outcrossing going on...that will produce a few good dogs but mostly not...but one thing about hog hunting is this...you can line breed and inbreed a strain of hog dogs and those hogs will adapt to it...there is a way to outcross to improve on a strain by outcrossing but it should be done very sparingly...and very seldom and with the right dog...

another thing is that there are many styles of hog hunting that will require a different type of dog...

then you have to take into consideration the size of the land that is being hunted...and that requires one to consider the type of dog needed to hunt that area...I better quit bringing up these obstacles or I might want to quit hog hunting forever...  ;D

I agree to a point, but have to wonder how much people would like there fullblood dogs with out all the crossing that made them the breeds they r today

If u want paperd/reg dogs, buy them. If u dont want them, dont buy them, but dont bust other peoples ba!!s for doing it, or say its for bragging rights or some of the other stupid crap. U either want them or u dont n bryant shot a bulls eye when he said "if ur breeding n not writting it down, ur spinning ur wheels". Nobody is hold a gun to ur head n making u buy a dog/s that are papered/reg, so why hate or be jelioys of those that do hav/buy them, is it an inferiority complex or something? Kinda like the short man syndrome or the small twig syndrome n have to adjust their small life style with the bigger better world around them

Papers are tools. the tools to keep a record of lineage. I have a record of all my "unregistered dogs for many generations, as far as could be traced as well as many other peoples dogs in order to know the information of what may show up in my dogs, health, temperament and most of all WORK ETHIC for HUNTING (bottom, drive, stay, focus) if they are related. I have all this information and I share with others, vice versa. However if My house burns down I have lost over decade of record keeping. In this day and time pretty Sad at how many people don't consider how important the past is to Our here and now. Hunting dogs are part of Our heritage, Stock working dogs are part of Our heritage, breeds such as the Catahoula may not be the most popular but have a long history side beside with Humans and settling this country.
Many people who never shared hand written records, or placed them in a registery have lost those dogs history, bloodlines and heritage Forever. I find incredible SAD, I have tracked some of dogs I work with now back to some very rough and savory characters with very interesting history. Thank GOD, some where wise enough to let these dogs lineage to be recorded and saved for someone like me so to look up up and find these peoples lives and their dogs so damn interesting. They found their dogs were tools like I think of these papers but they did not have time to discuss and dream about it as their where too busy trying to cut out a living for themselves

  best reply yet !!!!!   and there ya go folks . 

I have papers and keep records of where my dogs came from and that is just for me, if a person comes and gets one what he does with papers is ok with me but I know what he got and where it came from. 
Krystal with Uglydog has always keep good recordas with her uglydogs and a very smart lady, but most young hands know more after 6 months that most of us old timers do any way.

Yes mam,  I been preaching that for years and years.  Papers are just a road map to were you want to go with your dogs and it is a road map to look back and see were they have been threw all the years.

Hope you don't mind Mr. Mason but I edited your post a hair. Ive been hunting quite a while now and im younger (26) but believe i know im not speaking for just myself when I say that there are quite a few younger guys on here who still know when to shut up and listen when you "old timers" speak! People like yourself are the reason i come back to this site.

that aint what u said here below. sounds like u contradicted ur self
 

Papers are a matter of preference, if someone wants them or not is completely up them as is what they are willing to spend. Papers, hand written or registered, when used properly are a way to keep track of breedings, bloodlines, and crosses. As for the increase in price of a registered dog, that is up to the breeder and what they think they are worth, and up to the buyer and what they are willing to spend. For example, I bred one of the crosses that have been working really really well for me and my style of hunting. The few pups out of that litter that will be for sale will be at $1,000. That's my price. May not be acceptable to all, but hey, everyone doesn't own the litter, I do. If someone wants one of the pups that's great, if they don't like them, don't wanna spend that much, or don't want papers I could care less, not gonna hurt my feelings and I hope they find what they are looking for. In the end it's up to what a person buying a dog wants and what a person breeding a dog is willing to sell it for, why cry about papers your not breeding, dogs your not raising, and money your not spending?
Anthony

Uglydog and Mr. Mason both expressed how I feel about it pretty good. I would like to add though that so many of these dogs that so many of us call pure breeds started as "crosses". In our hog hunting world there are several. The Plotts, originated by the Plott family, the Catahoula, the Dogo, etc. etc. Selective line breeding and inbreeding was done and hand written records were keep by these folks for generations and as the popularity grew and more people took interest, registries were formed to better organize and keep track of the animals. The AQHA has crosses in their registries between traditional quarter horses and thorobreds. It's a cross and it's on record. Because of the papers, you can look and see right off that this animal probably is or isn't bred for the discipline your gonna use the animal for. I myself I don't have a problem paying a little more for someone keeping track of the dogs history. You naturally, as rule, are gonna pay more the dogs out of the most popular or in demand bloodlines. Do people slap false papers on animals? Sure they do. Know the people your getting the animal from, be it from references, personal experience or whatever method. Do I think people get carried away with the prices on the "papered" dogs because they are papered, a lot of times I do. Are they good because of the papers or the lineage behind them? I guess I'm saying I don't mind at all paying for the past in this circumstance and that if I can have it down on pen and paper it just makes things that much easier for me.

If you like papers there is nothin wrong with that. You can believe about 40% of what is written on them..
Most of the dogs I've bred and raised here for the last 10 years could be registered with a registry but I have "official" registered papers on none of them.. But I do know and have written down exactly how they are all bred because I saw it with my own eyes. If you don't see it then you can believe about 40% of what is on your dog's papers at the most.. If people knew what was actually  bred into their registered dogs there would be a lot of hurt feelings..

As the only BMC breeders in Australia papers are important for us in keeping track of our dogs; their breedings and performance.  But performance comes first and second.  Most of the the people who buy our pups are not concerned about the papers, but we send them out anyway.  There's a couple of points that I'd like to make -

1.  The hardest thing about breeding good pups is finding good owners, setting a high price for our pups does mean that we get committed owners for the most part

2.  The best thing about the internet is that everyones opinion is equal. The worst thing about the internet is that everyones opinion is equal....

Troy

at one time I registered my dogs and sometimes sold pups and put a price on them because of the papers...then I switched to hunting dogs with papers and it didn't take long for me to quit registering the dogs because of the high prices to register...I started filing the papers and pedigrees and for quite a few generations I raised hunting dogs that I just put a few notes down and every dog bred was a top hunting dog as what I thought a great dog was and never deviated from that...

but why is there so many culls in some of these registered dogs???one reason is that when someone pays top dollar for a registered pup from the latest and greatest bloodline that is the latest fad at the time...will have to breed for the money and won't care less if the dog hunts...others hunt the dog and the dog is not really good enough but the dog gets bred anyway...others think they have a good hunting dog but they really don't have a high standard in what a good hunting dog is...

but there are good breeders out there that produce good dogs on a regular basis and know what a good dog is...

I once went to a kennel where the owner hunted his dogs hard and produced good to great hunting dogs but his idea of what the dogs should look like were totally different than mine...at least for that particular breed and strain...he liked his dogs short and stocky and I liked them taller and leggier...a medium athletic build...he had a top female that was given to him and he just gave her to be with the papers...he didn't like the looks of her and she was everything I thought a cur dog should look like in that breed...the other 30 dogs in his kennel I wouldn't have kept...

there are so many variations in what people like and in their working standards that one must do their homework before buying...sometimes one has to breed their own line to be happy with the outcome...whether it be with papers or not...

The only dogs I prefer to have papers on is our dogos. Now it ain't for the money, it's just the fact that I like to be able to see the lineage. I had a lady awhile back want to breed her gyp to one of my dogs. I asked her to send me a picture of the dog and the pedigree. She told me the dogs sire was "funes de la cocha". But she refused to send me a picture of her dogs pedigree..... I wonder why? I figured she had lied about the sire. Needles to say I declined to breed my dog to hers. It seems like everyone moans and groans about people having papers, but those who like papers never complain about y'all who don't like em. To each there own my friends.

the bottom line is .......





     the best papers are the ones an old man wrights out on a scrap and has to scratch his head a few times while doing it  ;)

John you nailed it!! :)

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

I've seen good dogs from hand written paper and printed and stamped paper and no one knows where it came from it all just depends on what a man wants to feed.

but now it is exposed so now someone some where is reading all of this and will try to scratch some things down on paper and try and sell a dog based on a long line of great dogs that came from the local pound lol
I am sure it has already happened

just be weery there is alot of good and bad out there make sure you get to know the breeded get refrences if you dont know them look at history go hunting with them anything you can think of to make yourself comfortable with a purchase if ur not comfortable move on
papers no papers expensive cheap it dont matter it all comes down to what u want and what you want out of it

this will be debated to the worlds end and the same out come each time

to each their own

dont let a forum tell you how to run your pack they are all just opinions everyone has one just like mine

happy hunting

One thing I have learned about opinions....after listening to all the opinions I can usually make a better decision based on what I know and what I have heard...

In a lot of cases, one could learn what NOT to do based off of some of the "interesting" opinions I've seen on public forums, lol.

X2.........and SEE !

Speaking of papers......

Got to see one of those high powered yellers from a highly discussed breeder sold as a started dog on cattle recently.
Came with nice inlayed bordered papers with lines and lines filled with well known and highly discussed named pedigree's.

100% money back guarantee.

Dog would not even bay. Period ........to spooky to even get out of the dog box. Which is typical from what I have witnessed on these particular dogs.

The price...........unrealistic at best..........but not my cash.

Guess we will see bout the guarantee here perty quick....But for a renowned breeder to put a stamp on what I witnessed on an older pup supposedly performing .........embarrassing and a firm decision maker here on out.

Figure it was a retread to begin with being the reason it was sold as an older WORKING PUP. 

Enjoy them papered dogs boys.  Lol ;D

I guess you don't find any culls in those non-papered dogs lol

I agree with Scott there's culls in all breedings.. Period.... I ll take a paper bulldog from Scott any day of the week

Nahhhhhh... Everybody knows that you never get culls in non papered dogs..... :D. Haha.

Gents......point was............eyes instead of ears.........

Lots of folks being new, old, young and a few experienced ......seemed to be dazled and ultimately Distracted by the hype of a paper trail. 

Good, green, blue, ugly, hairy or blind.....if the product works.....use it or pass it along ...

But selling.....or even the attempt to sell a non working product....is shameful in this sport.  Just letting the few that care bout quality.......know of a personal witnessed event of this type.  To the ones that only care bout bordered, frameable, over priced, piece of recycled wood.............I am sure it looks great on your wall.   ;)

I have owed bunches of bird dogs. Without a doubt the sorriest most worthless dog I ever owned was the best papered. His sire was a national champion (there is only 1 of them per year) and his dam was the direct daughter of a national champion. The only regret I have about that dog is that I did not shoot him for the good of the breed.

All the bird dogs I owned were papered. There are good dogs and bad dogs within certain lines of dogs. Just because they are of a certain line is no guarantee that they will be good. I have found the same thing with labs. I got one great dog from a breeder and one so so dog. They both had the same sire.

I have only owned 2 hog dogs that were supposed to be papered. I did not get the papers because they mean nothing to me. Anyway both turned out not to be what I was looking for in a dog and I got rid of them.

I could care less if any of my hog dogs are papered. In fact if someone starts telling me about a hog dogs papers I am going to be very cautious. More than likely they are trying to sell you some cull on the basis of papers. AND how do you know that the papers are correct?

Papers (pedigree) is only as good as the man or woman handing them to you.  It would seem to be prudent to be very cautious when purchasing a dog or pup from anyone...papers or not

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I dont know what all this fuss is about-

A gun doesnt have to have a registration to shoot-but some folks want htier guns registered.

A car doesnt have to have a registration to drive- but the law requires it.

There are all kinds of "things" out there the perform with or without a registration.

My dogs dont know they have a registration, but I want papers on a dog so I can look back and see the pedigree.  I can write it my self of I can send the papers to UKC and have them do the work.  Either way- its my $ to spend and I prefer papers.

The papers dont make the dog hunt, they dont make the gun shoot, and they dont make the car drive.  They are just papers and certified documents of registration.

You want papers, get them- if you dont, thats fine too!

I think people read too far into "papers." Handwritten, or with a registry name and a stamp on them, paperwork is simply a way to keep track of the bloodline/lineage of a dog, and shows how it is supposed to be bred (when written/registered honestly.) Nothing more, nothing less.

The dog proves itself.

What DOES irritate me is when dogs or pups (working or not) are sold at crazy escalated prices just because they have paperwork on them. I've also seen ads like..."$200 without papers, $400 with papers." WTF. Even when you use a registry to register a dog it's only average around $20.

^^^^ I like

Yes sir, pretty well sums it all up. Papers are only as good as the man handin em to ya.

Papers are worthless!!!  Now having said that I have papers on every dog I own and always will raise registered dogs.  Papers don't make a dog or pup more valuable that why I say the are worthless.  There are folks out there that think the dogs with papers are worth more and that's their dog and papers.  If you don't want to buy that persons dog then don't, we've wasted a lot of time here bickering about this topic and if we don't get off the computer and get in the woods all are dogs are gonna be worthless!!!  LOL

I find It funny to see the number of people intimidated by papered dogs. Papered dogs produce just as much pork as you call it, as your so called unregistered super dogs. The truth is, most cant afford to go out and buy em, so you sit back and piss and moan about it, all the while tooting your horns about your unregistered dogs. Good for you, anybody with any sense knows that good and bad dogs exist in both worlds, period. Tell the people who've been breeding the right way for years, with papers, that their dogs are junk. I own a yard full of em and they have papers, tell me they don't catch hogs! Quit whining and go catch your hogs, I assure you the papered dog owners will too.

Lmao!

Very true, there's good and bad in both worlds.

Lol a little biased are we?

And you sure paint with a broad brush about unregistered super dogs and the guys that have em not having the money to buy registered dogs......come on man thats just silly and quite a low blow to the majority of people in this site,i dont care what you or anyone else says about it, thats just arrogant. Maybe some people dont want to spend bunches of money on papered dogs, and are happy with their unregistered "super dogs" as you call em, ever think about that?

I was sort of thinking that this thread was about to end.....I guess not now.  A new can of worms just opened.

I was going to have papered dogs I probably would have to get a few Cajun Plotts...have hunt, range and grit...and can find one and stick...
those dogs already about have what I would want in a dog that is registered...I would buy those dogs with papers and pedigrees the papers would be filed and looked at now and the...the pups from those dogs wouldn't be registered because I don't care to have them...I wouldn't pay the money or time to do it...

one thing about papers is that it limits you to what you can breed...

Not sure I understand this?

X2, them papers aint a profalactic, them dogs can still breed  ;D
If ur not wanting to spend the time or money to send the papers in, then what diff does it make on what u would breed to and where does the limiting factor of the papers come in?

    X2     (http://) (http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/eelcat1/E-6_zpsd4cfa763.gif) (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/eelcat1/media/E-6_zpsd4cfa763.gif.html)

Lol if you are referring to me by the "new can of worms" you will be sadly mistaken, im not here to intentionally start chit, the whole "not being able to afford registered dogs made me laugh out loud.....I have friends both on and off this site with registered dogs and they aint rich folk runnin around talkin about their high dollar registered dogs, hell you could talk with em a dozen times and never hear the word registered once, then ive got buddies with unregistered dogs that i want to strangle because they never stop talkin about dogs. I've got absolutely nothing against em, ive hunted with some good to great papered dogs and ive hunted with some that didnt deserve the ink that was wasted on their papers same goes for unregistered dogs lol. Im all for hunting the dogs that you like, as long as the owner is happy thats all that should matter. I personally prefer to get my dogs from people i know and am familiar with and the dogs they hunt dont have papers so neither do mine, just the way it is.

No Justin- take it easy man.  I was not referring to you.  I was referring to the comment made about affording registered dogs which you did not start.  I knew the affording comment would fire this thread back up.

Some registries have a guideline as to how close you can line/inbreed the dogs.  This is why I decided to forget about the papers on my bird dogs.
That would be my guess as to what Reuben was talkin about

well...I left the ETHD open by accident while I went to bass pro shop shopping for the grand kids christmas...so I was online but not really here...  ???

really what I was saying is this...when you have registration papers on a line of dogs and you really can't find another dog of the same breed that has the qualities I am looking for to improve my papered dogs...then I would be stuck without many options because now I am restricted to what I can do to improve my dogs...that would be a problem for me if I cared much about those papers...lets say I have mt curs and I need better stopping power and I know there is a Catahoula line that are pretty fair hunting dogs that are known for their stopping power...they are silent on track, another plus because some of my dogs are a little too open as well...so if I cared so much about papers I wouldn't make that cross...but if I don't care about papers I would research until I thought I picked the best cat of that line to breed then I would do it...in other words I wouldn't feel so restricted...because I like my mt curs I would do my best to pick the pups that inherited the qualities I liked and slowly breed back to mt cur until I had 3/4 to 7/8th mt cur and hopefully have captured the qualities I wanted from the cat...

I have nothing against papers at all...but I don't care enough about them to maintain them...

Wasn't tryin to jump on you bud, and i know whatcha mean. Merry Christmas.

No kidding, break out the popcorn. Lol. I ask for an opinion on registered Ben dogs, that should get us to at least 10 pages. Lol
Anthony