EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

does/has anyone use a hybrid bulldog as a catch dog. at one time i had one but gave him to an old lady that lived in the country with her granddaughter. i didnt like his temperment, too timid. she is crazy about him. thats when i first found this website after he was gone.

What hybred are you talking about the old english bulldogs? 

half johnson/half scott or  performance bred.

as long as they are built right they can be fantastic. ive used many of em over many years.

what about heat tolerance

mr. fuller what bloodline u run

Old stock bred "white" bulldogs should have neither Johnson nor Scott blood in them, at least where I'm from ;)

most people really don't know whats behind their dogs. i was thinking my next ab may come from konfederate kennels. he hunts his dogs and they can still perform their job

I highly recommend Konfederate Kennels. Don and I are good friends. He has some good dogs that can get the job done. There are a few guys on here with some nice AB's as well but I believe they have all Scott or Hines blood.

Mr. Mathews has some good blood. There's a guy down around Dalton that has some old white English blood. Talked to him some years back, I believe his name was Danny Hillard. His dogs were really big(90lbs) and he was pricey.

Spoke with one of my partners tonight about a pup tonight off of my old dog. Apparently he was backed up and needed some female attention now he's got youngins. Thinking about a female only time will tell. Checkout steel curtain american bulldogs. Bouncer is the dad.and freez is his full bro

i have an '' old white english '' bulldog around 90lbs , never tried him on hogs but he keeps my wife and kids safe when im not home !  he is built like a bulldozer and looks meaner than a snake but will lick you to death if you let him .  ill try to post some pics later .....  got him from a guy in florida , very popular around those parts .

joshua kennels has some white english/ol southern white but they have a nice price tag on them. cant drop that kind of money for a dog...and live to tell about it. I guess i will work with this pup off my old dog and pitbulls are a dime a dozen.

Devildog...if I were you,  I'd do a whole lotta research and know what you are wanting out of the dog before taking on a pup/dog. Quality woods bulldogs (be it AB orAPBT) aren't as easy to find as some folks would have you believe. Quality dogs definitely aren't  "a dime a dozen".

X2!^^

This man knows his bulldogs devil dog.. I d take his advice to the fullest

just got done pumpin my brakes, believe me i will be my research prior to shelling out  a dime

i do know more people that breed pits than abs. just have to take more time with the abs

Be careful of the sales pitch...

thanks Scott hope i didnt offend u or anyone else your point is well taken

Not offended at all. Just plenty of folks out there that are more interested in making a buck than making a quality working dog.

Very true Scott , I have proven out 3 for eagleswingkennels.com and they all did good very pleased with there speed stamina and work ethic. I have seen a bunch that Weren't breed to work and in the woods you can sure tell the difference. Juan aka Americanlegends has some real nice dogs to we have a pup from him that's coming along great can't wait to get him in the woods

very appreciative of the replies and advice. thanks fellas

Tico at Jam Up Bulldog Kennels also has some solid bulldogs bred to work hogs.

Scott, Tico, and Juan all have nice dogs. More of Don's dogs get worked on hogs than most will ever see especially on any boards.

Truer words have never been typed!

If you don't mind I'd like to the see stats to support your statement. Not everyone posts all of their catches on the boards or even takes pics every trip. Stats = # of solid dogs vs # of curs for every breeding those guys have done.

Thanks

I think that may be a little over stated.... I know I have two pups from Scott and my bulldog has been catching hogs since 8 months old and all his relatives have been the same.

I wasn't saying more of Don's dogs than Scott, Juan, or Tico. I meant more are used by hunters that don't post on the Internet than hunters that do. Sorry for the confusion! Should've worded my post better.

Don't know anything about Don's dogs these days. Looks like he's got some "pit" bulldog bred into them. As for his older blood, 25 years ago, my uncles got some of that. This is back when Don was in Fort Pierce, Fl. The male he got from him he used to work cattle. Dog would head and ring like a cur, and catch anything you told him too. Lost him to a gator, but not before he bred 'em into his curs. Still some of that old blood "workin" around Central/South Florida. The cowman that are using them don't post pictures ;) 

I have what I guess is considered a 'hybrid' Am Bull. He's built very well, and has good muzzle on him. Catches like he's been doing it all his life.

Years back I hunted Bill Hines' bred dogs in south Texas and they worked...not saying anything about anyone else's cause I don't know, but these were catching machines...

If you want pure white english bulldogs without Johnson, Scott, or Painter blood look up Jeff Clark in northern Florida or Ralph Citeralla White Knight Kennels of NJ. Both honest guys who take pride in their dogs.

Have a 13yr old WEB from Jeff Clark. Never showed him a hog - wasn't working hogs at the time - but I am confident he would have made a catchdog. To old to try it now, but am working hogs with two pups from Tico at JUB. Haven't spoken to Mr. Clark in about 8-10yrs or seen his current lineup - not sure if he is breeding but I enjoyed talking to him and visiting his yard.

spoke with ralph about five years ago he is real gung ho about the ab, but didn't have anything at the time. he spoke highly of a dog called hog hammer out of dorseys trophy hunters lodge in south carolina.

Ralph an honesty aren't even in the same universe...

Matter of fact there are multiple threads on a particular bulldog board dedicated specifically to the man's honesty, integrity, and class. One in paticular is 44 pages long that spans roughly 8 years.

What goes around comes around

Scott where r u located

I own a dog out of Yellowhammer(Scott)and Crib.Don't post many pics but I will meet whomever and be more than
 happy to show him get down!

Scott, all I can tell you is don't believe anything you read on boards. Years ago I was breeding pure Painter dogs (with some Bama Boy blood too). They were true to their papers and I was letting them go at  a pretty fair price. Painter dogs are small, slim, and some not over 80lbs. They also have a longer muzzle. Some idiot in Montana who never met me, saw my dogs, or spoke to anyone who ever owned one of my dogs posted that he "heard" I added Dogo blood to my dogs. At that point in time I never even saw a real Dogo never mind adding one to my breeding. I have  no idea what this guys motivation was, but he was the typical keyboard warrior. Insulting, lying, and wouldn't give his real name. I never bought a dog off Ralph but I have spoken on the phone with him for hours. He never once tried to sell me anything and as a matter of fact when I told him I would be interested in a pup when I returned to Florida, he recommended Jeff Clark. Not exactly the behavior of a puppy pusher. The only people whose opinion I respect in regards to Ralph's dogs are people who have actually purchased a dog from him and can speak firsthand.  My advice would be if anyone is interested give Ralph a call, talk to  him and ask for references, and then call the references. Don't believe keyboard warriors. They sit at their desk and attack people whose dogs they never even saw and destroy reputations of people they never met. Like I said, I never owned a dog from Ralph but if I was in the market I would trust him.

Dino, I've had some personal interactions with the man. I have seen his reactions/responses to not only me, but multiple different people for well over a decade. He has "turned" on countless "friends" over the years. He started off with ABs then they became OSW/Alabama Bulldogs, and now are White English Bulldogs. Funny thing is, that they are still the same stock that he started with. I have personal knowledge of how he treats his "friends". I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could throw him. He is nothing more than a used car salesman...and he even gives them a bad name. The above is not news to anyone in the working bulldog community. They know the man has never worked a dog a day in his life.

To each their own, but anyone with knowledge of the man and how he conducts himself not only with dogs but people could never in good consciousness refer someone looking for a working dog to him. If he's grown a set and would care to "debate" or offer proof to disclaim what I have said...send him an invite here. I'll gladly take it up with him. But, that'll never happen...the man will not visit a board that he cannot delete or edit posts of others for his benefit.

I know 1 thing about anerican bulldogs and that is that is that i dont know jack about american bulldogs lol. In all seriousness though i will say this, i have hunted behind either 4 or 5 AB's that come out of "scotts" dogs on here, granted 4 or 5 isnt a bunch in the big picture but I know that If the guys that owned em turned em loose on a rhino, come hell or high water those bulldogs would be on that rhino's ear when we got there. Very very well built solid bulldogs with good dispositions and a hard bite. Im not in the market for an AB but if I were he would be the first person i would contact.

the first one i ever saw i didnt know what the hell it was, that was back in 92 in phenix city alabama. I hadnt heard about bmc, mtn curs, catahoula etc.. until i started checking out this site. the first time i saw a pitbull i was a kid and didnt know what it was. they were rare and not many people had them. bulldogs are my thing(apbt/am bulls) and i try and learn as much as possible about them. my brother inlaws nephew is into the blue pits. ask him about bloodlines, he gives me colors; rednose/bluenose/tiger stripped. he breeds as most do for profit with no thought on producing better dogs.

OK, Scott. I respect your opinion and your right to express it. I would be lying if I said I had any negative experiences with Ralph. I just remember how upset I was when somebody who never even knew me claimed I added Dogo to my Painter dogs. That really stuck in my gut and like I said, Ralph was always really nice to me when we spoke over the phone.  He was very enthusiastic about maintaining the near extinct white english blood line not polluted with Scott, Johnson, or Painter blood.

Dino, it never made any sense to me that an AB breeder would add Dogo and then try and hide  it. You can sure get alot more money for a Dogo pet than for a performance AB. Just doesn't pass the common sense test does it? I've never believed that theory.  just doesn't fit....from a time perspective or monetary perspective.

When you say Painter are you sure you don't mean Kershner? Those are two different strains bred by different people using different dogs. And Scott is a right in his response to you about the referral. I know from personal experience.

Devi!dog,I use hybrid and performance bred dogs….good hybrids still work well if you can find them.  

 Don't get to hung up on names etc... find good individuals that work

Hybrids,

Boo

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1363345-bdks-boudin-boo

Bruja

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1361240-bdks-white-witch-aka-bruja

Peewee


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1328564-bdks-peewee

Performance bred

Goblin

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1361674-bdks-pine-goblin-of-dirty-cobblestone

Shiner


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=903603-bdks--black-eye-on-society-of-charnota-shiner


https://m.facebook.com/Bonedigger.kennels/albums/357477517688570/?__user=1631012848

Mr. Bryant those r some good lookin dogs. Looks like they can bring the pain

I have one for free if any one wants her

Hello Crib,
No, I don't mean Rod Kershner. I mean Joe Painter. I bought my first two American Bulldogs off of him in the 1980's when he lived in Chicago. He had his famous Sgt. Rock dog and a some other good ones too. Joe was always bragging on how game Rock was, but when I offered to bring one of my catchweight pits with me he clammed up real quick. I liked him anyway. He sold me two really good male pups that turned out really well. I spoke to Kershner much later, back in the mid nineties maybe. He purchased the GABC registration from Painter and had a few Painter dogs that he freely admitted he added his strain of pitbull to in order to "clean up the gene pool". My friend saw his dogs and said they all looked good and were very well taken care of. I never bought anything from him though.  I remember his pitbulls were a light reddish color, forgot the bloodline. He did not stay with American Bulldogs very long. Painter got most of his early dogs from Allen Scott or Allen's cousins in Alabama. I think one was named Larry Wright.  Joe purchased about 75 dogs from Allen and said there were only about 12 that he felt were pure bulldog. Most he claimed were cur or great dane mixes. Never believe everything Painter says. Contact me if you want at gerardjohn26@yahoo.com

hi john, welcome to the board. hope you are doing well.

devil, i have had and used a lot of different ab blood on hogs over the past  i think 16 years. my favorite was my old petey dog wheo was out of my old kershner bitch fullers pretty patches when i bred her to souzas/van hooses koa of boyd. petey was the bulldog you wanted you had the biggest baddest hogs you could find. my sam dog who came from lem miller/joshua kennels was a great woods dog for me for many years and actually a better winded dog than petey. i still have peteys 12 year old son jack though hes got bad legs, busted out teeth and blind. and i have a 2 year old grt grt grandson of patches  here also. i used quite a few hybreds and a few stright bred standards . i dont recall the post but i managed to put some of my old pictures on this board a while back. scott and bryant on here both have good woods dogs in their abs .

there are also others on this board with very good woods abs , britt garcia for one. i surely dont meant to slight anyone.

thanks mr.fuller, i have looked at juan and tico(jam up bulldogs) they have some very good looking dogs and the bloodline that got my blood to pumpin-hines bred. the most important thing is the working ability of the individual dog with a pedigree that says what he is capable of based on his kinfolks and what they did. doesn't always work out but we have a blueprint of sorts to build on

Yeah he told me most of that. He was a good friend of mine. Not sure if you knew or not but he passed in Sept. I learned a lot from him. I met Larry wright before actually. Seen pics of Lady Lujo, Trashman, Oakhill Paul aka Buck.  I agree that the dogo stuff people come up with when it comes to the bama boy dogs is absolute nonsense.

pretty sure the APBT blood Kershner used to cross into the ABs was down from Mayfield.

Yes, Rod was Don's successor.

Pretty sure you're correct

mayfields braskin was the apbt  kershner was open about using in his ab program. but cole little told me kershner most likely used 2 other apbts  also . and where the apbt was used is also  pretty screwed up.kershner told me that in some peds where it shows tappes big boy brutus , he was really used but in others braskin was used and the papers said it was brutus.

Smh..why not just tell the truth since he already admitted to using the pits blood. Makes no sense.

i think he got to where he wasnt sure of the truth in all the breedings he had done,lol. when i talked to kershner he offered to sell me the gabc, and he also said if i wanted to pay for a new pedigree he would send me one for patches with the real dogs he used. in retrospect, i really should have paid for the ped. could you imagine the mileage that would have gotten on message boards.

More than that would have helped you plan your breedings better. ;)

not really,lol.the only breeding i did with patches was a total cross anyway ,so i was just using her for her attributes more so than her pedigree.

Another breeder of hybrids I would trust is Matt Boyd. Matt is one of the most scientific breeders i know of. He does extensive testing of his dogs before breeding them and in my opinion is as honest as they come.

dino, i reffered folks to matt for many years.i think he has now finally quit breeding abs. although matt did produce some dogs very capable of being  good catchdogs most of his breedings over the years were focused on producing a dog too large and bully to be a good woods dog. at one point matt was checking some of his dogs on hogs also. i will say ive seen alot of hybreds that function very well as catchdogs. i know other than folks weve allready spoke of in ths thread that alot more folks have used hybreds than straight standard dogs on hogs when it comes to registered abs. this is just due to the sheer number of hybreds.one name that should have popped out early in this thread was mitch allison. don mathews, lem miller , the diaz brothers in fla and alot of others come to mind also

Mitch mostly dogs pits and curs now. Has bulldogs occasionally. Only had one Am bulldog last time I was there. Underdog carries some of Mitch's old blood mixed into his stuff.

Don't know if George is doing anything with the dogs now, but Ariel is still putting them in the woods.

Don't know much about American bulldogs, may I ask what the difference is between a hybrid and a performance bred Am bulldog?

Well, there is some disagreement there. Some folks believe that some hybirds (a mix of Johnson, Scott, Painter) can be a performance dog and function as a catch dog, etc. The term usually refers to pure Scott or Painter dogs with no Johnson blood which many believe afffects wind and heat tolerance. I have seen plenty of hybrids that could perform (catch, etc). Usually ABs are broken down by bully type such as Johnson line and Performance dogs. There is some blurring depending on the indivual dogs abillity. At least that is my take on it.