EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Post up some pics of your Ben Jordan and shives bred BMC Dogs

wheres all the pictures? I hear the name ben jordan all the dang time I figured just about everyone had one of em but me  ;D

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/jyhe8unu.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/agygu4eh.jpg)here some of mine 8 months old


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The name get's thrown around from time to time, and I've seen some pics of dogs claiming the title that I know dang sure aren't closely bred Ben Jordan dogs.  People will get a dog bred five generations down and still call them a "so and so" bred dog.

I have a littermate pair from a Jordan male and Owens bred female...just starting to hunt them a bunch and we'll see how they do.

Here's the male, but from a few months back.  Hard to tell by this pic, but he's a leggy rascal, I'll give him that.

...and YES, he does have a tail (as they all do) though not easily seen in this pic!

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/bdavis1476/pup_zps21b047e4.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bdavis1476/media/pup_zps21b047e4.jpg.html)

Judge peel,

That little bit thicker coat will give them away every time.

Nice looking dogs.

Bryant I've been curious how those Lisa pups you have are doing.  I've a couple cousins and 2 puppies that are half brother/sister to them.  Been trying to keep track of who has what and how they turn out for further down the road...

Samezees

Thanks Bryant same to ya

Here some east Texas curs same family of dogs as Bens all derive from driver blood(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/2ysupy3a.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/ese5u3uh.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/quma9egu.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/ydaqe6u7.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/unagujy9.jpg)

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Like button........pressed !

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/27/ysapuru6.jpg)
Young dog out of Bo Nutting dogs.

Ben,
 Second to last picture- One good looking dog.

   outstanding looking Ben Jordan yellows!! The pic in the profile is my Ben Jordan line. The 8 month old pups you see in Judges pics are from my Ben Jordan dog crossed with his Ladner female, but will send pics from my two Jordan dogs tomorrow. They always hunting ok untill they  hit 2 years old and really burn the woods up now.

This is a dog out of Clue Andersons cowboy and a shives bred gyp. Nice dog, used on cattle...but don't let that fool will find and bay the hair off of a pig. Really nice nose, good hunt, only thing i don't like is if cattle bay real easy and nice he does get alittle bored, won't let them go...but not as solid with it as id like. I don't have as many "WILD feral" cows to play with and thats where his heart truely lies.
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac234/hogdog05/Photo278_zps8ef513e1.jpg) (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/hogdog05/media/Photo278_zps8ef513e1.jpg.html)
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac234/hogdog05/brandonspic2461_zps3fc1a63d.jpg) (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/hogdog05/media/brandonspic2461_zps3fc1a63d.jpg.html)


Allie out of a Ben Jordan male and Owens bred female. Starting out real nice. Has alot of want to. Figureing it out very quickly. Only thing is she and the other pups i have are ruff as a cob. haven't turned a catch dog loose this whole month, and haven't caught anything small. I can only hope they learn quick.
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac234/hogdog05/brandonspic2454_zps2cc615a1.jpg) (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/hogdog05/media/brandonspic2454_zps2cc615a1.jpg.html)

Aint his dogs, but i think a pic of Ben and Benie Jordon is due.
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac234/hogdog05/2012CowdogTrailsSmithvilleOK607.jpg) (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/hogdog05/media/2012CowdogTrailsSmithvilleOK607.jpg.html)

ok heres some pups Ben had in 2012, don't know anything about them or how they turned out. This was his run at the Trials on the young dog day.

(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac234/hogdog05/2012CowdogTrailsSmithvilleOK662.jpg) (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/hogdog05/media/2012CowdogTrailsSmithvilleOK662.jpg.html)
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac234/hogdog05/2012CowdogTrailsSmithvilleOK677.jpg) (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/hogdog05/media/2012CowdogTrailsSmithvilleOK677.jpg.html)

The first one on the ground is the Cowboy/Lisa pup I gave Ben. He was and is really high on her. I think she placed third and a full brother won it.

That should have been Cowboy/Sarah not Lisa. Lisa is a Cowboy/Sarah cross.

somebody can put mine up if they want , i ain't smart unuff  ;D

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n144/Lisa-34/Black%20Mouth%20Curs/Cimg4102.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/Lisa-34/media/Black%20Mouth%20Curs/Cimg4102.jpg.html)

This is the daddy or grandpa to most of the dogs in this thread when he was a pup (no Shives  nor Ladner blood in him). Pretty nice dog to use and crossed well with whatever he was bred to, and it appears his offspring are producing pretty good too

Sure wish he was still around old man. He sure was a producer of good dogs.

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here goes nothing.

this is my pair of Driver/Owens/Jordan bred pups. 8 month old littermates. for what it's worth . . they also don't show any Ladner or Shives breeding, to my knowledge.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/winoamenb22714.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/winoamenb22714.jpg.html)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/winoc22714.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/winoc22714.jpg.html)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/wino22714.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/wino22714.jpg.html)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/winoamen22714.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/winoamen22714.jpg.html)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/winob22714.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/winob22714.jpg.html)

Tell us how you got'em Barlow.

it seems i've seen that couch somewhere before hahaha  ;D

the short version is that they aren't strictly Driver bred dogs. I have a gyp named Pet that is heavily linebred on the Buster X Ginger dogs of Bob Owens. She also shows a single instance of Cowboy and thru Bob's old Rowdy dog a little extra bit of Jordan's Henry and Driver's Jenny. Pet is the momma of these two pups.

the weird coloration of the male pup in those pictures is from his daddy (now deceased) that I got out of Round Rock, Tx with the help and generosity of this man.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/jesse214-1.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/jesse214-1.jpg.html)

This is my friend Jessie Jones. Some of you might be familiar with the story of the "old, black dog man from the Coffield ranch in Rockdale" . . . who produced Owens' Liz. This is him. Now 84 years old.

Barlow??? I thought these pups were out of a leopard dog from Round Rock Texas and a part Plott gyp that you stole a breeding on from a Cowboy X
Sara dog, maybe this is a different litter??

I was typing at the same time you were, that is the reason for the redundantcy.

no. it's the same litter. you just seem to take pleasure in putting a more negative spin on things. and yes . . . these pups are, I believe, 1/32nd Nabek and Ursus Plott.

Same with bob Owens lol

Some of you guys would probably be a bit surprised if you used your head a little bit and even figured out who some of these guys are posting on this thread.  Haha..  I can guarantee you there's probably no one with more knowledge of cur dog history (or just cur dogs in general) than at least three of the posters on this thread.

Barlow...still amazed by all your research.  Probably have people scratching heads on that leopard colored pup.  Is that a Coffield hat on Jessie's head?

believe me I have heard ALOT about these dogs, Mr. Stokley owns a couple  ;) I wasn't downin them at all, I was just surprised that it took so long for folks to post pictures.  ;)

I had the hat made for him Bryant . . after our phone conversation. the front looks like this . .

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/2931a90e-b431-4802-94d8-9d95363a179b.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/2931a90e-b431-4802-94d8-9d95363a179b.jpg.html)


and the back reads, "COTTEN JONES OWENS RIGNEY" . . as a sort of tribute to Jessie and his old partner Wesley Cotten (of Milano) and then Bob Owens and David Rigney who got some of what they had and held onto it long enough to pass it on to others like myself. it just so happens that after giving them to Jessie, Bob and David . . and keeping one for myself, I have exactly one left I was gonna offer you to avoid any copyright infringement lawsuits. haha.

Haha...that's awesome, Brian.  I know he thought a lot of that.

Hard to see in this pic, but I thought that brand on top of his head sure looked like the one all over the ranch.

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/bdavis1476/coffield1.jpg)

I don't doubt any of this stuff mr Bryant but seems like 98% of the yellow dogs I see the owner claims they're straight outta Ben Jordan dogs I find that hard to believe.

Since we're talking about a line with so much history and have the attention of some of the great dog men behind them let's hear some stories about some of the key producers and breedings that made them!  If you gentlemen don't mind...

While I'm posting here's a mess of them I have from BigBen and Hogdog05.  They are all out of dogs that came from BigO and Mr. Clue Anderson.

Tuff - Hogdog05's Jojo(BigO's Bear x Cward's Ellie) X Hogdog05's Cowgirl(Clue's Cowboy x Clue's Blue eyed gyp)
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q662/jsstokley/20140126_104335_zpsfd1ee261.jpg)
Smurf - Hogdog05's Jojo X BigBen's Ginger (Clue's Cowboy x BigO's Sarah)
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q662/jsstokley/20131207_135014_zps6c1977ee.jpg)
Rooster & Rose - (Cowboy x Roxy male) X BigBen's Lisa from BigO (Cowboy X Sarah)
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q662/jsstokley/20140126_105831_zps7647090d.jpg)

starting to feel like I'm interrupting the conversation . . but I finally dug this one out from when we visited in 12/12.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/diamondhgate.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/diamondhgate.jpg.html)

which made me wonder if you ever saw these?

Bob BIGO Owens

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/kirks2.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/kirks2.jpg.html)

Bryant and some youngster he was tutoring

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/kirks3.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/kirks3.jpg.html)

over 400 combined years of Cur Dog History. Some of it may have even been true!

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/kirks1.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/kirks1.jpg.html)

Milam co area is well represented

Barlow can you name the men in the last picture?

Barlow took the pic. 

That was a once in a lifetime get together we had a good while back.  Lots of cur dog history in that room.  Every one in there brought photo albums and stories.  We could have sat there for a week and probably not heard a single story twice.

Some of the guys had never met...some realized their dogs went back to a common line, and a couple guys even figured out they were related haha. 

Its amazing at how many of the BMC lines go back to the same breeding. Wouldn't you love to have just one set of pups off of the Henry or Punch dogs.

The Smurf dog is a well built rascal for what I like to see. Hope he is making you a good'un.

Thank you!  He's just over a year and is starting out a little catchy but he's still got some maturing to do.

Man I like the history of this thread just wish there were more stories.Might need to make a trip out to CWards to hear some.

There is lots of info on several strains of dogs over on the Cur and Feist board of Alton Davis" under the BMC page up at the top in "Pinned" threads if you like reading that sort of stuff.

Yep...lots of good reading over there for those who like history, and want to know true history instead of just what's been marketed. 

Have to sign up to view the message board, but here's the link to his site.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/Hunting_With_Cur/index/ (http://s1.zetaboards.com/Hunting_With_Cur/index/)

Altons board is a good no drama board and I hope it stays thst way.

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it will Ben,,,Alton is too old for any crap..ha ha

Sorry guys and gals, trying to down load some pics and not working out for me.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/01/3aga8ypu.jpg)this is Clyde from ( mark) aka Bonnie and Clyde


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Nice dog Judge.^^

Nice looking dog Bonnie and Clyde.

Thanks Rednose, I had my female jordan dog as well to post up, but don't know how so Judge felt my frustration and sent one for me lol.

Clyde is in this pic, but wanted everyone to see Bonnie as well. Still trying to figure out how to post pics.

Send me the pic and I'll post it.

After seeing yellow black mask dogs, my dogs dont have number 2 on his!!!! I think hes the fellow me our anyone else should ask questions too.

This is my male dog from Mr Jordan.

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/wrangler0224/d00a8c5f-9ba1-4d50-ba92-913aac880af7.jpg) (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/wrangler0224/media/d00a8c5f-9ba1-4d50-ba92-913aac880af7.jpg.html)

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/wrangler0224/LJpapers.jpg) (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/wrangler0224/media/LJpapers.jpg.html)

Wrangler. That there my friend is a gorgeous specimen of Yeller engineering.

Got me a couple of questions? Is he used for cows or hogs?  And does he use his nose like a hound or hot track like most curs? 

Next question is to Bob since you got some blood in the mix.
Talking bout the dogs in general here and trying to take the foolishness that most times gets wrapped up and associated with papers and registry's......what's the difference in these dogs listed under Southern flag and the Foundation Flag?

Are they same blooded back to a kindred cross; but folks associated spatted and went seperate ways with registry??...Or are they two completely seperate lines of dogs that have been held and bred separate all along?

Here is Bonnie_Clyde's gyp Bonnie.
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q662/jsstokley/2014030295132119_zps2044737c.jpg)

Here is what I saw with my own eyes. In the late 80's I went to a BMC get together of the Southern BMC's in Arkansaw. I saw dogs that ranged from 25 lbs that could drink out of a coke bottle, dogs that looked to half pit and dogs that would weigh between 125 and 150 and all in between. Mr. Wright was there and had Carnathan dogs. Mr. Wright had a falling out with Mr. Carnathan and came home and started his own registrey and called and asked me to be the president of it. I declined as there was too much difference in those dual purpose dogs and the true stock dogs I was used to. Mr. Wright latter came up Weatherfords Ben and got rid of the Carnathan dogs.

Dang computer posted that on its own before I was ready. The difference between the dogs now in each registry is Mr. Wright dogs are line bred to one dog with a little of the Big Boy Blondie blood and every one else linbred to the cross its self. Mr. Ross want register a bobtailed dog and I don't think Mr. Wright will register anything that has been registered with the Southern. The fued continues.

Alright just so as I get the big picture. Some of the original stuff went back to same crosses on both sides but upon the feud...the lines began to build upon certain dogs that are now found on both sides of the fence.

Now if that's straight......what are the noticeable differences in traits. 
Perty familiar with one Registry's standard issue  but not necessarily the other.

Body weights  and leg comparison
Hereditary Timidness
You already answered the no ship rudder question
Bottom
Natural Hunt......the get gone trait.
And biggest question ........NOSE?   Can they use it like a Hound?
Not so much worried about baying.  Should be compareable in either I would expect.

I understand that there is always  fluctuations in any line...but am looking for the norm.
Few fellers on here that typically shoot straight and give it like it is....without the promotion of unachievable expectations.

Why I chimed up on this particular thread without reservations of receiving a sales pitch instead of an answer. ;)

I just gave the difference between the Foundation dogs and the other dogs, registered or not that carry the Driver blood. The Southern, when Howard had it, would register anything and everything that would remotely resemble a BMC even if you had to strecth your imagination a bunch. John Wayne Ross is a good honest man and has tightend down on that crap since he took over. There is nothing he can do about what went on before and some of that blood is still in some of the dogs registered there and they register BMC's of alot of different bloodlines.

As a user of the dogs, I will say the difference I have seen is almost as if the using bred stock dogs are bred and culled by people who use them hard, whereas the paper tigers I've had seemed to have been bred by a professor tinkering around in yellow dog theory based of off years of book studying. That's not that big an insult if you think about what I'm saying. It truly seemed like the foundation ones I had were very thoroughly thought out, but ill be a monkeys uncle, they just didnt cut it for me as using dogs.

In short, my observation is that one class of dogs is bred to be the best the breeders can accomplish and they keep coming out yellow, but the other class keeps being bred to be yellow.  >:D
 

All simply my opinion. And my opinion is worth a fart in a whirlwind. So there.

The biggest difference is one was bred to use, the other was bred to sell.

As always gentlemen ...........interesting with a touch of entertainment.

Appreciate the info and opinions.  All are useful in the formation of a perception.

Just get a parker cur and be done with it lol

I don't understand your comment.

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The way I get a good perception of dogs is to get me some and see what they do, and typically before that I would go see some of them turned loose doin their thing. Then we don't have to worry about anything but our lyin eyes.

Agree with that whole heartily.

But the moment that an opportunity presents itself to aquire one for a test spin.....is  typically an unforcasted timeframe.
Hate making decisions on the fly.....especially an uneducated one that usually involves compensation  ^-^

One discussed line.....never again. The other lightly familiar with but plenty of room for education and a possible test spin if the traits are favorable to my style.

Hope the questions did not come off as measuring contest. Not the purpose at all.
Always enjoy the YBMC discussions and information, even though it usually ends in bickering and infighting. Think that just comes with the territory with men that are truly passionate about a common shared subject but have different expectations due to the wide spectrum of uses for the breed discussed.

Hand full of folks in this forum that I dont mind taking the time to listen, read, and contemplate  their views.....even if they sometimes differ from my own.........Most have already chimed in on this post.  ;)

Good stuff gents.  :)

in the top pic how is the dog on the left bred?

Not real sure it my friends pup he said he got it in east texas some where she a good pup

ok good deal! thanks

(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac192/t-bobparker/C4CA54F9-AABD-420B-9AC1-19F58C3220E4-18228-00000B645EDBD055_zps1a0e7eab.jpg)
The real bright shiny one is my pup out of Lisa.

(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac192/t-bobparker/F5F13D9D-85A9-4678-9511-54ACBDE3DE5E-18228-00000B638EF2F88B_zps8fe8a80e.jpg)
My Pup out of JoJo and Cowgirl. Half decent in several areas, but lacking in free cast as you may can tell by the picture. Lol  :D

I sent ya 2.....I guess you culled the other alittle two early. He probably had all the free cast.  >:D Either that or you need to get a bigger stick. ;D

Did momma kick you out and you have to dry them big boy britches on the dog box?

The other one was sure my favorite but had donkey baying on the brain and unfortunately, that donkey bayed right on his brain.  >:(

And no, that's how my dogs know which dog house is theirs, by the smell of my various britches.. Lol

Already tried a longer whip, no use. Lol