EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have a friend on the east coast and for the last few years his company has had ongoing dealings with a wealthy South American businessman whose family used to control the National Bank of Bolivia. This family has maintained a vast estate in southwestern Bolivia for approximately 200 years. It comprises several hundred thousand acres.

Last year my friend and his employer were invited to the rancho or estate for several days. While there . . some of the resident employees, who are basically native Indians . . went on a hunt for a jaguar who was killing calves and lambs. My friend ended up not being present when the jaguar was caught and killed with the help of some of the ranch's dogs, but he was excited and called me later to tell me about it.

Of course I've been harassing him with questions and requests ever since. All of my info is second hand (at least) and there is also something of a language barrier. The family's primary concerns now are more in finance and petroleum so the businessman himself has never had any direct involvement with the dogs or any real interest in them or cows or hunting, etc.

The ranch is no longer a commercial ranching operation but they still maintain a herd of cattle and still keep the dogs even if only out of a sense of history or nostalgia. At one point the dogs were used in some manner on the cows. It sounds like they might have been more of a hunting/catching dog than a lead dog or one used for penning the cows. But because of the Spanish influence in Bolivia and on the family in particular . . I'm assuming they would be more of a cur type cow dog than a heeler or a collie, etc.

The estate owner told my friend that when he was a boy the old women of the family would sing a song to the children about his grandfather or great grandfather. As the song goes . . sometime around 1920 the man of the family took some of his working cowboys up into the mountains to kill an extremely dangerous "tigre" that was a menace to not only livestock but some of the local villagers as well. He took all of his dogs except a young pup and a couple of old dogs who were past their prime. Several days later he returned unsuccessfully after having one of his "gauchos" and every single one of the dogs killed. The song goes on to say that the following spring the man returned to the mountains, but this time he went alone and took only the one pup who had by now grown into a young dog called el Lucho. You can probably guess that the man and dog killed the jaguar by themselves or else their wouldn't have been a song.

Also . . there was some famous white hunter of jaguars in the 1920s or 30s who supposedly got his most famous dog from this family. The hunter's name was either Samuel something . . or something Samuels, and there is alleged to be a book written about him. I've looked all over the internet and haven't found anything but I'm thinking it might just be a Bolivian book and so would've been written in Spanish.

The dogs have always pretty much run loose on the ranch so nowadays most of the male dogs are neutered for practical purposes. It doesn't seem anyone pays much attention to which dogs mate and there are no records kept of any breedings . . or at least not for the last fifty years or more. There are no nearby neighbors or towns to produce many stray dogs but there are villagers on the estate itself and some of them keep a type of dog known as Andean Tiger Hounds that could have intermingled in the gene pool of these ranch dogs.

Strangely though . . these Andean Tiger hounds are one of only three known dogs that produce separated, double nostrils . . and since the ranch dogs don't possess that trait . . I'm assuming there isn't a lot of interbreeding. But to be fair . . the ranch dogs could be half Shih Tzu for all the evidence I have.

Here is one of a few pictures I've managed to get from my friend. The dogs all look like slight variations upon this one. Some have no saddle. On some the saddle covers much more but has more of a smutty or sable appearance than what we would call black and tan. This is the main dog used to catch last year's nuisance jaguar. I don't know his name in Spanish . . but my friend says he was told it translates to "Baby Eater" . . lol.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/perro5.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/perro5.jpg.html)

Anyway . . I thought somebody might find this story interesting. One more hint at a possible Spanish origin for working/herding dogs in the new world.

Pretty good story.

Looks like a short eared runnin hound. What is the deal on the seperated double nostrils? I thought they were all seperated, i guess i dont follow you on that one...

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Nice! Like the dog too. Shows there are dog men all over the world, lol.

Barlow, that struck a memory. It was either in Sports Afield or field and Stream & I am thinking it was in the 60's. I read about guys jaguar hunting with a dog called a Bravo. They were either a black dog or a black brindle & they were bred for jaguar hunting also. I know bravo is spanish for brave but I remember distinctly that these dogs were called Bravos.
  Made me think that some Plotts might have been imported down there but personally, I dont think a plott would live very long hunted on jaguar.

Here is the hunter you are trying to think of Barlow (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/17/mu2uve3u.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/17/ehe2adyj.jpg).  Sasha Siemel


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very cool story

joshg223 . . . awesome! if that hunter's name is Siemel . . I bet that's the guy. Just a miscommunication from someone speaking Spanish to my friend . . to me. Not familiar with him but I'm gonna start looking. Thanks. And thanks for the message too. That dog on the left in the first pic kind of resembles the Bolivian dog. Makes me wonder. Of course in the later picture he's turned to Walkers. I guess in his old age he just wanted to hear a race and not actually catch the jaguars. HAHA

Cajun . . I know of some Plotts that were exported to I believe Argentina in the 1950s. I have some copies of old letters from Hack Smithdeal, back and forth with the rich guy who bought them for jaguar hunting. In one of the letters the guy asked about how to properly bathe a Plott, lol. Smithdeal replied that his "damn dogs get a bath when they swim a creek after a bear."

Peachcreek . .

this is Xingu, a double-nosed, Andean tiger Hound

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/uq4joos12sjz5r2ajfnv.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/uq4joos12sjz5r2ajfnv.jpg.html)

Man that is a messed up lookin dog.

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I read somewhere that these dogs cold trail with one nostril and be checking the wind currents with the other nostril at the same time...

Cool story, thanks for sharing!


That dog is hideous, I'd cull it twice just to make sure.

Ewwww.

Dog looks like a hyniea mix

they say they inherited the split nose from some Spanish bird dog that the conquistadors brought over. back then they thought the dog could smell twice as good cuz he had 2 noses, lol. sadly, that's a true story.

but even stranger . . me and bigo have been following this bolivian ranch dog thing for almost a year. we found the info on the split nosed tiger hounds online. and then . . a few days ago he found these advertised on craigslist as squirrel dogs for sale . . . I think they're some type of mountain cur . . if you're interested reuben.  ;)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/00G0G_98fLIPkesOf_600x450.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/00G0G_98fLIPkesOf_600x450.jpg.html)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/00606_9HIgQ8GpF40_600x450.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/00606_9HIgQ8GpF40_600x450.jpg.html)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/00T0T_k6A1mqqSvmG_600x450.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/00T0T_k6A1mqqSvmG_600x450.jpg.html)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/tomorrowisle/01515_jAgCyLMCLP2_600x450.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/tomorrowisle/media/01515_jAgCyLMCLP2_600x450.jpg.html)

I have seen pics of bulldogs
 with the same split nose. It is kinda like a birth defect from what I gathered.


Shotgun
Arkansas

Very cool story. Seems like a lot could easily be lost in translation or just plain bad info haha. Cool though.
"Baby Eater" only thing that come to mind is A Dingo Ate My Baby haha
As for the double nose, I dont care how good they work, I couldnt have a dog that ugly haha

Great story,


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not to take away from the dogs in any way but thats just about the ugliest thing i've ever laid eyes on, im with T-bob on this one!

Seems like they might be a lot easier to train as multi-purpose dogs.  Use one nostril for finding hogs and the other for cattle.  Just plug the one not in use and you're in business.

Just a thought...

Cool story about the dogs, Barlow.  Pic looks a lot like my dogs.

Good story

It's been hard to get any info at all. My friend isn't a hunter or a dog man and the guy who has the dogs on his ranch is super wealthy so it's kind of like getting your insurance agent to call Mark Cuban on the phone to ask him a bunch of questions about what kind of car his grandpa drove. Nobody got time fa dat. Forget about finding out if the dogs are open on track, if they trail or wind, if they are catchy or just bay dogs . . etc. Wish I had the money for a vacation in Bolivia.

And just to be sure . . the crazy looking double nosed dogs aren't the ones I'm interested in. They just live in the same area. They are definitely outside my breed standard for conformation.

Those two nosed dogs are some weird looking suckers... almost looks like a pug.... LOL

That is an interesting story. Thanks for posting.

A few years ago (maybe 30+) there was a man (his family name may have been Lee) I saw at cowdog trials that had some red curs, some of which had the split nose. He may have been from south of San Antonio.

And I just thought I had seen an ugly dog b4  ;D