EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=477469

I know some folks here have em. Would love to see! His blood died out on our yard as of last year,  but next week ill have a male back on the yard again. Pretty happy about that.  Here's (soon to be mine) mines ped above.

nice pup...lots of Hammond in the pedigree...if I decide to get a bulldog more than likely it will be one from his yard and I will pick it myself...

A friend of mine owned the Tanner dog and he was as good as anything that looked thru a collar. This feller did do a lil hog huntin at one time although not with Tanner!

Weve owned a few and have never been dissapointed. This is the first one were going to have that didnt come directly off his yard. Mr Gary is a good man...and im honored to have him as a friend.
Ive heard ALOT of great things about the Tanner dog as well.
Im really lookin forward to this pup. Gettin him from a real nice gal. Gained a new friend in the process.
:)

 ;)

Well krystale when you get him, make sure to post a pic I'd sure like to see. I met Codyscatchdogs at Brents house and she had some very good lookin pups off his dogs. We only talked for a minute but she seemed to be happy with the product. Maybe she'll see the post and elaborate on how they are working for her.

I sure will!! Im actually meeting Cody next week lol. Were swappin pups :) Thats who im getting him from.

I've already explained to MrsLouisiana that I haven't had much luck with the Hammonds blood.
I'm going to work with the 2 last pure ones I have and if I just can't get this stuff to work for me then I will outcross it and leave it behind. That may take me a couple years!
If The 2 females I have right now don't make hog dogs but I like other things about them, I will kindly turn them into brood stock. Thus culling their offspring HARD! Years...
MrsLouisuana has had the Hammonds blood before, she knows what she's getting into ;)

Yes indeed. The Hammonds blood crosses VERY well with the lines I run. Weve had a high success rate in offspring when crossing his blood into 'ours.'

I like the looks of the Hammond dogs...What is the reason why you had to cull them? I like great looking dogs but that doesn't mean anything if the catch isn't there or if the want to fight all the time...

Getting into catch dogs I wanted a lot from my dogs. I was used to my dogs catching at 6 months old or 8 months and THEN I let them grow up from there and develop. Showing them a hog once a month in different situations.
Well to start with I had one male from a pup that came from Gary, Half Hammonds/heinzl/sunson. I had him almost 2 years before he stopped working hogs like I wanted and was trying to out think everything. Very strange dog. Spooky spooky dog. His other 2 sisters would quit a hog and were very spooky. I didn't keep them as long as their older brother.
1 different female was an ugly hot mess with an awful personality... Spooky, skittish and scared of everything.
1 older female would catch a hog but had no mouth to hold one. Killed her male pups when they were 3 weeks old. Luckily I got the females away from her and finished raising them, I have 2 now and I like them a lot. This older female was an unpredictable man bitter also. I sent her back after I raised pups since she wasn't mine to cull.
1 older female was very ugly and a cur. 4 years old - caught a 30lb pig - quit an 80lber. Sent her back as she wasn't mine to cull. Well bred and she has potential to produce better...
I've eased up on what I require from my dogs but if I am to keep a "well bred" dog of ANY bloodline I want to like at least a few things about them. Personality is #1 and a good conformation is #2 ... If I have to settle for Brood stock type dogs!
Everything I produce off of those "brood stock" dogs will be culled harder than say pups off of 2 proven dogs.
My program, my business for anyone with a rotten attitude. Your not feeding these dogs, I am.

Thanks for sharing...sounds like I need to look elsewhere if and when I decide to shop for a nice APBT...

Exactly what I was hoping to hear.

I'm not bashing his dogs, they just haven't worked for me yet.
I hope to change that with the last 3 I raised. One is going to MrsLouisiana and the other 2 are with me. If I can't make them better working dogs then I will at least breed FOR better out of them. Then if that doesn't work, to hell with it then!

I may be wrong but I believe a good point to be made is that just because a bulldog is game bred, that does not make it game. Plenty a bulldogs now and in the past would tear another dog of the bone, but wouldn't even look at a hog.  It's just  a different animal.

Could be a better option. I see exactly what she is wanting to accomplish. She wants proven dogs to work HER style. I don't think the is in the business of spreading sub par bulldogs all over the country like some peddlers do now days. I was fortunate enough to get a bulldog from her, and it's the real deal. 7 months old and all business. If and when I need another bulldog it will come from her as I know it will be out of proven dogs, and the pup will already be interested in what it's supposed to do.

Yes indeed, that is VERY TRUE. I've had a few of them old dog battlers tuck tail at a hog.
Just make the best catch dogs the best way you can figure out.

Youre right Mitch. Good point to make for those who may read the thread and just think this line is no good all. I do know theres folks out there who do use his dogs as CD's. The dogs still are individuals....no matter what line theyre down from. I wish it were easy to know how every one will turn out. Some dogs start up later than others. This ive seen. Cody and I have talked extensivly about this and picked eachothers brains. Shes got a good ethic. I respect anyone who has their own expectations, knows what they want from their dogs...sticks to it, and culls when needed. And I think its good when people share their experiences, good or bad.

as for me I want natural instinct to do what it was born to do...if it be a catch dog I want a 12 week old pup to catch a 20 pound shoat by the ear and put his body against the pig and set back and spin with the hog if needed...if I bred apbt's for catching that is exactly what I would breed for...

same with strike dogs...natural to find bay and stick with it at a young age...

breeding natural within a strain begets more of the same...Natural working dogs...

if all that bred working dogs followed those rules there would be a surplus of good dogs...

I also know some folks who have pure Hammonds dogs that work well as catchdogs but I have seen some of that sketchy attitude also. I had a Hailstone bred dog given to me some years back and from the time he got here he wanted to eat my wife. She fed him for a week while I was gone and he would wag his tail when she brought food but growl at her as she left. She had to back out of his space or he would charge her. He never was that way with anyone else but he took a dirt nap. Gary likes a bulldog with a little bit of watchdog personality to them which I don't for this breed. I won't ever have another pure one. They also don't make very good brood bitches as a rule compared to some other lines. I know of a good number who you have a hard time getting them to raise pups. I just find it easier to run different lines that suit me better. Gary is a good friend for 30 yrs. but we do things a lpl different. But then he has bred hundreds more dogs than I have and and half the world knows him and nobody knows me. LOL!

Wayout...I would never own a APBT that had watch dog tendencies...just too dangerous to have around...once they fire up they usually won't back off until the job is done and that could go south in a hurry...just my thoughts on that...

Ive known Gary for 25 years.  The first dogs I got from Gary were directly off Pig, Vito, Andy L, Rufin.  We were originally trying some of those to catch cattle.  I had a 29 lb female named Rose that could catch a cow and flip her end over end.  She was out of a Hammonds female and sired by Ratliff's Gus. Those dogs back then were "smarter" than your average game dog and could be trained for catch work and could be trained to socialize with other dogs.  We had a male named Jiggerboo that was a catching machine.  He was sired by Hammonds Rufin and his mother was Sarah Belle (a daughter of Perry's Miss Pacman).  He would catch cattle or hogs and could be called off.  When he was about 2 years old, he "turned on" and killed a Catahoula, and was useless after that.  The moral of the story is . . . any bulldog from game lines, has to be watched.  Just because they catch good one day, there is always that chance that all of sudden they become interested in dogs instead of hogs.  Once they "click on" to dogs, you almost can't turn em back off.  I have used gamebred bulldogs to catch and I have used non-gamebred ones as well.  In my opinion, the non-game bulldogs consistently make the best catch dogs because they don't come with all the problems, and they still catch good. 

Crossing game lines into non-game lines is the way to go.  You get the "fire" that comes with the game dog side, and you can kind of docile em back up with the other side (if that makes any sense).   If I were looking for a line to cross my non-game blood with, Hammonds line would be a good choice.  But all bulldogs are individuals.  There are good ones and bad ones in every family of dogs. 

And for those of you who don't know . . . "Catch Dog Enterprises" is just a name.  It really doesn't mean that Gary is running a "catch dog" breeding program over there in Mansfield, TX.  I don't think Gary is a hog hunter or has ever been.  However, he is real good honest man.           

Very well said! I'm in the process of the non-game/game crosses. I have some right now and are very making very nice pups. It will take years to see the rest of it through.

I agree with you Slim on most all that you posted. One thing that " turns those game dogs on" is a dang growly cur dog that challenges them. Either way the catch dog is done. I have been happy with my Jeep/Rascal/Redboy stuff as it has not been real dog aggressive but I'm looking to cross it into friends non-game catchdog stuff to get that "perfect cross". Time will tell. The only thing I was unhappy about with my blood was it didn't pick a spot well enuf. They were too excited and grabbed the first thing they got. If I lived down there and hunted more it might be fixed but I am only there for a month in the winter. And your comments on Gary being honest are right on. One of very few still around who saw Bullyson and know the truth!

Here is one I had. Good bulldog and was going to make a good catch dog just a little to dog aggressive to keep as a catch dog. I would have definitely liked to cross him over something not out of game lines to see what we got.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=403206

Blake that was a nicely bred good lookin dog you had there

10-4 on that West.  Best catch dog I ever saw is dog named Norman.  He is sired by some scatter bred Stompanato stuff, Floyd's stuff, Tommy
Curry's old stuff, and mixed with some non gamebred stuff.  Smart, gets along with all dogs, and a straight up bulldog on a hog, no quit whatsoever.  I think it is that mix of game to non-game that gives you the best dogs.  They have the staying power and the BRAINS without the problems.  I think you could take a big stout 65 lb non-game bitch (blue dog or whatever) that catches good.  Cross her with a standard size game dog and that is a good recipe to give you some sic em get em type 50-55 lb dogs that are athletic and can function in the woods.  But as we know, whatever catches good and gets the job done is all you need, no matter the breeding.       

 A very good friend of mine passed away this year, Cecil Pond.  He saw Bullyson and Eli Jr. and their daddy Eli.  He said that Bullyson did in fact quit against Benny Bob, but that has always been a debate depending on who you ask.  I have heard several guys who saw both, said Eli Jr was better than Bully, but who cares right?

As for Gary Hammonds, not a more honest dog man alive.       

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=334324


I have this male with sum hammonds blood. Catching little machine and good around my other dogs.  He normally gets stuffed n the box with the bay dogs

Nice!!

Nice bred dog. Pure Floyd B. on the bottom. You know your dogs better than me but it would scare the bejesus out of me to put mine in a box where I couldn't watch them. I have hauled them in an open trailer where we could see them. That Tindal fellow on that ped did a ring for me years ago out of my old wedding band. He copied a silver bulldog head of Gr.Ch. Art that I had and I love it. He was recommended by JoAnne LeBlanc. Did great work!

Thanks. I don't normally keep a catch dog with the bay dogs other than this guy.  He just has zero dog aggression   He will even share his food bowl n the house with the yellow dogs.

Sounds like an all around good one! I really like a dog with the self confidence like that. I suspect he would be hell on wheels if something pushed him past his limits.

Well I got my pup tonight.  Hes a beast lmao. Cody I think you feed your pups miracle grow haha. It was GREAT meeting you and your husband tonight!  Hope your lil pup from me turns out to be exactly what youre wanting :)

Thanks! It was a pleasure meeting you and your family.
I have high hopes for Six! He looks like his momma :)

Got a little Hammonds in both of these gyps

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=36218
(http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r589/TreezBulldogz/DSCN0356_zpsfe90b060.jpg) (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/TreezBulldogz/media/DSCN0356_zpsfe90b060.jpg.html)

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=36604
(http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r589/TreezBulldogz/DSCN0367_zps7607a32f.jpg) (http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/TreezBulldogz/media/DSCN0367_zps7607a32f.jpg.html)

Mona breeds some good dogs! The Cali bitch was bred by me. I sent my Snipper down to TLK to breed to Musket. I still have Cali's brother but he is done as a catchdog since he got one whole side of his mouth yanked out.

lol That's cool to know! I know from getting on here every so often that you are one of the very educated bulldog men on here and it's clear to see why. You've been in the dogs for a while and have fed and produced some quality animals. It's nice to know that I can thank you for my Luna dog. Without you and your actions, I wouldn't be feeding her today. I sincerely appreciate your contribution to the bulldog world!
And yes, Mona has and breeds some good bulldogs. This dog I have from her doesn't have a fearful bone in her body lol. Again, thank you!

Your welcome! I still have Cali's uncle here too. He is the last living son of my Oreo bitch. He will be 11 on New Years Eve. Hope she is everything you need. I've felt they were some pretty smart dogs who will give you everything they have.

Sounds like you have/had some bulldogs that anybody would be proud to feed. 11 is a long life, I'm sure he's had a good one! Luna is a work in progress. I got her when she was 13 months old and it appeared to me that she wasn't showed that much attention. I'm assuming that because of her demeanor (skiddish/spooky) and she was on the thin and frail side. She's come a long way since I got her about 10 months ago but she's still a work in progress. Either way, I'm happy to have her here and she won't be going anywhere. She isn't the "smartest" dog that I've fed but I will agree that this dog will give it everything she has. She is FULL speed ahead 24/7 lol! Kudos to you, WOW.

I was given Oreo by Crenshaw when she was 8 wks. and she was given a lot of attention. She was friendly but always on the shy side. Many of her offspring were that way. They were much better off when in a smaller yard of dogs. Yours was on a large yard of dogs and while it is a very well cared for yard they don't get a bunch of one on one. Oreo had 20 pups in 3 litters and never lost a pup. One thing I really appreciated about that line. The LG stuff is very good that way also.

So it sounds like her shyness comes from the bottom quarter of her ped, maybe just the bottom eighth. It's nice to know where some of her ancestors came from and how they acted. It's even nicer still being able to here it from "the horses mouth", and that being you in this case. I didn't pick her up from TLK's yard and have never been there but I did know that it is a large yard and I chalked up her shyness to the fact that you brought up, with a large yard like that it's hard to show the one on one that you can in a small yard situation. And that's what I have right now, a small yard, and she gets a lot of one on one attention here and is doing well in this situation.

 I'm glad to hear that Oreo was a good brood gyp and never lost a pup, that's one thing that most of us can really appreciate if you've had one that is a terrible mother. Makes for a stressful situation to say the least so hopefully Luna caries that trait, if she's bred.

 I've read and commented on some of your stories that you've shared with us on here but I can surely bet you have some history lessons stored in that brain of yours lol. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the "good ol days" are talked about amongst you and your friends. I'm a younger guy (31) that just so happened to be born in the wrong dog era lol.

I do believe shyness can be hereditary just as not socializing can also contribute...I don't know much about bull dogs but I do like them very well...if I had the place and resources that would be the second breed of dogs in my kennels that I would keep a breeding program with...

With certain line of cur dogs some pups tend to be shy and lots of socialization at a very young age will help tremendously...At about 2 weeks of age I will toss and keep an old sweaty t-shirt in their doghouse and switch it out after a week or so they can smell me close by 24/7...even then those that are naturally shy will grow up just fine but they do not require a heavy had and they usually will take a while to hunt for a new owner...some tend to make awesome hunting dogs so a good reason why some are bred, thus more of the same...some folks say too much inbreeding causes some of that in some instances but I can't say one way or another on that one...

I believe shyness is a hereditary thing also. It didn't get in the way of the dogs doing there job but it was something I tried to breed away from. 

I got my ADBA magazine the other day and noticed Gary Hammonds was advertising a beautiful Hammonds/LeBlanc dog at stud. I have seen the dog a number of years ago and he is flashy and has caught hogs as well as being a show Champion. His bottom side is the Tindall blood down from Ms. LeBlanc's blood.

In lookin a lil deeper, the dog Gary is advertising at stud is the father of B.Cornetts dog. Ch. Scotch Gator

B. Cornetts dog out of Ch Hop Scotch (the dog advertised in the mag at stud) is dead now.
His friend owns CH Hop Scotch and I own the dam to B. Cornetts' dead dog.

B.Cornetts dog was a good young catch dog.

Gallagher's CH. Hop Scotch is at stud at Catch Dog Enterprises. He is an exceptional animal and his first litter put a couple really good dogs on the ground. He is the sire to the dog B.Cornett posted. He was killed by a rank 250lb boar. RIP.