EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Anyone hunt with these any info or pics is appreciated

Best dog I ever had was a leopard hound. He was silent , and rough. I'll see if I can get some pictures from the guy I sold him to. I wish I still had that dog and have been trying to buy him back for several years. He was blue merle colored. not as merle as a catahoula Though. Probably an 80 pound dog. Real tall and houndy looking. 

(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag326/coondogo80/Mobile%20Uploads/imagejpeg_0_zpskkchkqls.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/coondogo80/media/Mobile%20Uploads/imagejpeg_0_zpskkchkqls.jpg.html) there he is on top of the box. I sold him the one on top of the box and the one in the box. He likes the heck out of em and so did I. Both these dogs are silent, but most other leopard hounds ive seen are open.

(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag326/coondogo80/Mobile%20Uploads/imagejpeg_0_zpsi5rifij9.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/coondogo80/media/Mobile%20Uploads/imagejpeg_0_zpsi5rifij9.jpg.html)

(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag326/coondogo80/Mobile%20Uploads/imagejpeg_1_zps7lhpmo8v.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/coondogo80/media/Mobile%20Uploads/imagejpeg_1_zps7lhpmo8v.jpg.html)

That is a fine lookin dog

Georgia were u dieing or sick or need money or just a dummy


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the last 2 ....lol. I sold them to him in the condition that I had first option to buy if they were ever sold. I knew he would hold his end of the deal on that but dad gummit they won't come up for sale !!!!

There is a man on here by the name of mike Rodgers from Stevensville area he raises them I have hunted behind one of his young hounds was silent and gritty and long range iam geting a male from him soon I have high hopes for

Ain't that how it always works georgia


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By leopard hound do you mean, leopard cur x hound?
Nice looking dogs!


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Back in the old days a catahoula was called leopard cur or catahoula cur....nowadays folks talk about cur dogs and cats or catahoula's...they deffirntate between them and curs. ..

About 10 years or so ago the leopard cur name was changed to leopard hound...this breed is more of a hunting breed than a catahoula on average...

Well what are the dogs in the pics, because they are not leopard curs(leopard hounds). There was a man in California crossing leopard curs to hounds and calling them leopard hounds, but I think he stopped when dogging bear became illegal. I've seen some folks cross cats with hounds and make dogs like in the pics. Too bad these names have gotten so confusing


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Granted I am old but I grew up with Leopard dogs (what is now Catahoulas ) They were just Leopards or Leopard dogs, (they didn't have much white, weren't all merle colored, and were rarely double glass eyed) never heard of Leopard Curs until the treeing  Leopards "or Leopard Curs came to light" more recently they became Leopard hounds.
 Laceys were  Lacey hog dogs.  Blackmouth Curs were Blackmouth Curs or just  Yaller dogs. Nowdays they are all Curs.
Still trailing Cur dogs do not " strike" they "Find" thus they were and are find dogs, (they find a hog or cattle and bark bayed at it) Hounds or open trailing dogs "strike" when they "find and open"  on "track", they all bay when they have something cornered "on the ground", thus they are bayed no matter what they are.
Old time terminology that is more "correct" than the modern terms. Amen

Im not sure the breeding on them. But they are called American leopard HOUNDS . They are different than catahoula dogs. These are tree dogs. Usually open mouthed and cold nosed.  Ive never seen one with glass eyes. Ive seen black ones, and black and tan ones. UKC registered. And all are real houndy. Not cur looking. 

you got that right. 

That's a fine looking "leopard" cur dog right there. Long legged, block headed. Does he catch and hold

That's a great looking dog there Georgia. He just looks rough, I bet he was hell on a hog.

American Leopard curs are big game and treeing dogs just like the old man said. About 8 years ago the UKC started registering them as American Leopard Hounds some were excited about this because it got them into the UKC coondog events and some were really upset with the name change and now refuse to register with the UKC or acknowledge anything that has hound to do with it. Over those few years it seems that the guys registering with the UKC dog's look really houndy while the guys that decided to go their own way still look much more like curs and only register their dogs with the ALCBA.

I have two of the latter mentioned cur ones that are straight MacDuffy breeding. They come from a long line of bear and cat dogs. Almost no coondogs at all not that that is good or bad. I guess just like anything else it just comes down to preference. They have a little longer hair almost never glass eyes and almost never ever double glass eyed, and you can't even get them permanently registered until three people will sign off saying they have seen the dog go from truck to tree or bay on their own.

that is a good thing...

when I had him it took a hell of a hog to back him up. The guy that has him now said he's been cut down a few times but hasn't changed a bit. Its a shame he dont bay much because he's got one heck of a mouth on him.

I have 5 right now. Hope send one to Cody pretty quick. A guy bought 4 of my pups and took'm to Utah. Then turrned around and bought 1 more. He sent me a video the other day of them tree'n a lion. One did a solo lion at 10 months old.  I have a bunch of old info on the leopard cur /hound.  I even made a buyers guide last year with a lot pics of dogs and breeders.  Here's a few pics.

Me and Jack
(http://i66.tinypic.com/5mhdg1.jpg)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2cpp5z7.jpg)

Sally, Jack and Bubby.  Bubby is the mother of Jack and Sally
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2ik8dpz.jpg)

Bubby treed up on a coon
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2ioh0z.jpg)

some of my pups
(http://i66.tinypic.com/20pq0xz.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/20f9j7.jpg)

pups that went to Utah
(http://i67.tinypic.com/5r420.jpg)

Cover of the buyers guide I put together
(http://i64.tinypic.com/k38uvt.jpg)


let me know if you need some info.

mike

Mike I would like a copy of th buyers guide, I am a Plott guy but I love hounds.

Nice looking pack of dogs Mike, sounds like your dogs are really doing good all around the country.

Mike, those look about like the ones I've seen out west here. What do yo hunt with them?


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Mike may I ask what dog that is on the cover of the buyers guide? That is the look I really like, the more cur looking ones with a little longer coat.

Looks like one of the old mcduffie dogs.

Yup I thought the same too, that is why I was curious to know who it was.

Yep that's the dog Richard McDuffie brought out of Texas along with 3 other litter mates.   Cumberland Valley Nimrod is one of the most noted and recognized  leopard cur out there.  Though he wasn't the first cur Richard owned.  In around the same time Richard got Nimrod,  other leopard curs were already being advertised. That's around 1960 to 62. Some old articles from the 40's and 50's tell of leopard curs.  Sports afield had articles in the early 50's about a "die'n breed" called the leopard hog dog, but the same story by the same man that wrote the leopard hog dog would change part of the article and call them leopard cow dog and Texas leopard cur dogs. Another words one in the same breed. These article also state that the leopard was originated by crossing Birdsong hounds on local curs. These articles were in print all over the USA. Funny how McDuffie wrote how his leopard cur was a dying breed... One of the earliest kennels in Texas and one of the largest kennels in the nation was located in Aledo Texas. It was called the Sunflower Hound kennel. They raised wolf and cat hound and you can find some of there old ads in early news papers.  They talk about stock being of strains of Redbone, Birdsong hound and bird dog. This was around the 1890's or so. a lot of Birdsong were leopard spotted so you can see where it's possible to get the leopard spottedness from the Birdsong. Also early redbones were high tan or saddle backs. The article from Sports Afield also say the dogs come east crossing the Mississippi into Louisiana 60 years before the article was written (early 50's). Kinda of the same time the Sunflower kennel was in operation.  All neat stuff to read, but it sure does take up a lot of time.  Man I could go on and on.....

Jaun if you want a book let me know. I normally get 20 bucks for them. Thats including shipping. It weighs just over 13 oz so it cost around 6 bucks to ship it. If your ever in Stephenville I can bring you one for $12. Thats my cost for making it.

Rednose I hunt coon with mine.


Mike

another part of the story is out of Georgia via Florida.  Some of the first dogs Richard added to his kennel and registered came from a man named A.W. Carter. Mr Carter was a cow man. Originally from Florida. Yes he was a Cracker Cowboy and had a leopard spotted cur ( i would assume cracker curs as they were known in the day ) that he used on cattle. Some would tree on there on. This was a characteristic that was a fault to him. He would sale or give these away.  He later  moved in the 1940's up to the Georgia area (i believe first ) to work on a big cattle ranch. He brought his dogs to work the cattle.  I think he moved again later on. Maybe to the Carolinas. You can also find stories about Fred French. His sweet talk strain was registered as leopard curs with the ALCBA and with ARF by Stodgehill as a treeing catahoula

Neat information sir !

Thanks for all of that info Mike, that is really cool. I read an article too, I want to say it was written by Richard MacDuffie but I could be remembering wrong. It mentions adding in a little what today would be called a border collie I believe to the mix and that is what I figure they get the longer hair from but thats just a guess.

I just picked up a super heavy McDuffie bred pup. I'm hoping he turns out but only time will tell. But I will tell you he is sure a looker.

Mike could you PM me your info I think I might want you to ship me out a book as well. Thanks.

That may have been Doc the old time farm shepherd. Look him up....  Wikipedia has a small write up on him. Theres also a good article Richard wrote himself


Mike Rogers
343 PR1640
Stephenville Tx. 76401

that's what I was thinking...

I'd like to hear more there is alot of great information being posted.... Mike how dose mr meeks fit into all this

my old male Ramrod (now dead) had a shot of Meeks blood in him on his top side.   Lamar Meeks has been raising leopards since the 60's. There are a ton of dogs that will go back to some of Lamar's stuff. Lamar has really helped a lot of folks out with leopards. He has ran a lot of the same blood over the years now. Leopard curs use to be all over this country. Texas and Oklahoma had a ton of leopards at one time.  Now not so much. 

Thanks for all the info I have been considering adding a leopard hound to my pack and I think yall confirmed

Cool thread, keep the stories coming mike

Mike,

My opinion is the first Leopard dogs were originally brought into the US by the Spanish (via Ponce De Leon -in Florida).  Growing up in South FL, most of the curs I saw were leopards.  Do you believe that Mr. Carters dogs were of the Spanish decent and do you agree that the Leopard dogs were originally brought here by the Spanish?

I've read some articles that many Native Americans also had a Leopard colored dog.....before any of us modern day readers were born or thought of.

  I have always wondered if the American Leopard hound & the Catahoula came from common ancestors but were bred for different purposes. The Leopard hound being bred more for tree game & the Catahoula being bred more for a stock dog. What are your thoughts on this. I have always admired them & used to read all Richard Mcduffies articles that he wrote in Full Cry.

I think there were a lot of breeds that went into these old dogs.  The Spanish war dog, Cuban bloodhound, and others just to start. Think about all of the early explorers that came to America exploring.  Not only the Spanish, but the English  but all the  other early  explorers.  Then think about the cur dogs , bird dogs, war dogs, fox hounds and other  breeds of dogs they brought over.   There are records of indian dogs that predate the colonizing of Americas. The indians used them for about everything. Packing and traveling, hunting, as guardians, pets and as food. I did read a neat article  that told how the indian dogs differ from tribe to tribe and from region to region. The more heavy haired wolf looking dogs where in the north for example while the more lean short haired dogs where in the south. That early natives used them for hunting things like turkeys. You can still find some neat info on the Turkey dog of Virginia and early Americans of that area.  Kinda neat when you start reading and researching all this old stuff and how one thing leads to another.  One thing about it the early Americans bred what they needed to survive in the new world. This country offered bear, lions, deer, small game, turkeys and other critters they could hunt, skin and eat. They bred it, improved it and bred it some more.  Our ancestors produced  some of the best dogs out there and one of them was the leopard cur.  We may never know whats exactly in them or where they came from, but they are truly bred and built in America.

Funny that that has been mentioned because  I know in some articles you read on the history of the catahoula it speculates that they were part "Spanish" dog, red wolf, and something else. Interesting to say the least .

I think this too. Along with folks just breeding and adding what they needed to get the desired traits they wanted. After a period of time and different folks breeding for different traits the breed became two or maybe even three different breeds.  Even now you find several different looking cats. The bigger slicker bulldog built ones and smaller hairier cur built ones. The leopards are kinda the same way. As Mr McDuffie was putting it together he single registered and brought in different dogs from different areas of the country to improve the traits and build upon. Now 70 something years later we have what we have.

I strongly believe that the Catahoula and the Leopard Hound are/were the same dog and I believe most of them were brought from Spain.  Looking at the most popular regions for these dogs, they are predominantly in the SE US, where the Spanish first came to the US.  I believe many of these Spanish dogs moved from FL to Louisiana where they became popular- the Catahoula is the state dog of LA.  Yes, many other dogs of different breeds were bred in long before record keeping.

From all of the reading I have done I think I would agree with most of what is being said in regards to Cat's and American Leopard Curs originating from the same spanish and Native American dogs.

But in more modern times they have become very different breeds, I mean in my opinion there are very different strains within each of those breeds let alone the differences between the actual breeds. I think the two breeds went in very different directions and now they are like night and day different. Just my opinion not that one is better than the other just different from each other.

I also  agree  that these dogs have quite a bit of the native and Spanish influence from what I have read read in the past...at one time I almost bought in to the leopard cur (hound) but decided on the mt cur instead...

J. Richard McDuffie was a great writer and for many years I read his column first in full cry...the first I have read every since has been "National Majestic Tree Hound" column first...this month the Article is about hunting Jaguar in Arizona back in 1958...

Ruben, were they targeting jaguar, or was it an incidental catch?


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Me too Reuben. I read some articles from him and when searching for more stuff from him is how I accidentally found the gentleman that I got both of my McDuffie bred Leopard Curs from. Really great guy and friend.

I think you made a good choice...

Liefalwepon...they were told of one that had been seen...the hunter was known to have some of the best cat dogs around so he and two other guys went  hunting for it and the got their cat the next morning...

The National Majestic column always has had a very short paragraph of the breed and right under that he will post a hunting article from way back...sometimes it can be about a good bear hunt or bobcat hunt etc...sometimes a coon hunt...I look forward to reading them...

The story teller wrote that from 1917 until 1949 that only twelve were taken that were documented...Five of the twelve taken were within a 35 mile radius Nogales...I assume Nogales is in the mountains somewhere close to northern Mexico...

This old  jaguar picture came off of  Predator Masters using UBB.threads. Picture comes from a man that went to Costa Rica on vacation and seen it hanging up on the wall. This picture is dated 1920.


(http://i67.tinypic.com/2ex944h.jpg)

thanks for sharing that picture Mike...I googled the address written across the bottom of the picture thinking southern Mexico or central America....according to the picture it looks like Las Palmas, Coasta Rica...that is a big healthy looking male...

yes it is Reuben. I was looking for old pictures from mexico or south american that had any pics of the old dogs they used for jaguars or big game and found this one and a few others.   I like this one because of the look of the dog on the left. 

That is an amazing pic, that is a bad cat right there.

Google the Lee brothers they were big game hunters in the early to mid 1900's lots of good jaguar hunting stories

Steve Mathis who Wrote the book  "Brave" was a Lion hunter out of california & he also went down to So. America a lot & guided for Jaguars. Good book.

Yes it is a good book...I have read it more than a few times...the very best story is the story about the dog named Brave...I goggled that book 6 or 7 years ago and it was worth several hundred bucks and I am fortunate to have an autographed copy...

I don't know if it was you or someone else asking about Meeks Leopards...

in his ad he says he has been breeding them for bear, cat and coon for over 50 years...I believe he has pups now...
Lamar Meeks, 912-682-3995...

Book called the Greatest Guide talks about the Lee brothers lots of good hunting stories including a lot of jaguar hunting

No that was a different gentleman on this thread. The guy I got mine from got his directly from Richard McDuffie himself and has been breeding them. He owns the ALCBA now.

I know of him but not very familiar with his line. I am still learning all the bloodlines of this breed. I like the ones that really look like curs and are not very houndy. Do you know which type his leans more towards? I have only heard good things about him though.

That's Randy Oller out in California.

Yeah that is who I got both of mine from. I know about his line as I am proud to call him a friend and talk to him regularly.


I'm sorry I wasn't very clear I was asking about Mr. Meeks line of Leopard curs. I don't know much about him or his line of dogs though I have heard nothing but good things about him. Mike Rogers does Mr. Meeks line lean more toward the cur side or does his have more hound bred in?

tryin to recall but i bought a leopard cur from a guy named i think knight or mcnight and seems like was in the midwest. i think he had the registry for them at the time but noit sure anymore lol.the dog was a blue leopard and didnt work out for me, only bayed and wouldnt go into a hog in heavy brush. also seems like he might have barked track a bit. this was 25 or more years ago i think. and i found the ad for the pups in full cry. i think my mistake was buyin a dog for hogs from a guy who only hunted coons,lol

Yeah they used to own the Breed registry office and were the ones that sold it to Randy. They now run a Leopard website and forum.

Could I plz have ur number mike

Look at the book "cold trail" by Riley Miller. Bunch of pics of Dale and Clell Lee jaguar hunting in Mexico

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Hey buddy you in Oklahoma yet? I am leaving now.

sure 254-631-9883

James Knight owned the registry for a few years. Michael runs a great little site call americanleopardbreed.com

Mr Meeks tend to look more hound, but his kennels have produced some more cur looking dogs. One won a big hunt about 4 years ago over on the east coast. It was a heavy coated bobtail dog with shorter smaller ears.  There is an article somewhere that I think was written by McDuffie . May have been a full cry article. In this article it states McDuffie had purchased some leopards from Lamar.   There were leopards brought in from a lot of guys in the early years that had hound influence. You'll see a lot of single registered dogs through out the history of the  leopard breed. See McDuffie and others  brought dogs from all over the US to add the the gene pool.  They say it was solely dogs that resembled the leopard breed with desirable leopard characteristics. (heavy hair, leopard spotted, smart, easy handling and such)  Fred French that originated the "sweet talk" strain was brought in by McDuffie. These were most yellow or red leopards that were registered by the ARF as their own breed of catahoula.  This put the red color and bobtail characteristics in a lot of leopard lines.

Below I copied from the UKC Big Game Forum...post by Lizardridge...

I have raised and trained Leopards for 25 years. I hunt some of the younger ones on coon depending on what month they were born but mostly hunt them on bear. I have as good of success with these Leopards as I did with hounds and they handle much better. I live in Virginia and have hunted in Canada, Maine, West Virginia, Michigan, North Carolina.

Cajun what part of LA you live in?

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/beauceron-21633156.jpg

Beauceron, which I think I once read was used in the make up of the leopard or catahoula

Yup one account I read said when the French came over after the spanish were defeated and left, they mixed their Beauceron with the dogs that were left from the spanish.

Good stuff yall !!

Nice dogs fellas for sure. I like them spotted dogs no matter what you call em lol


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