EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

All of this is hindsight, and not really important now, but curiosity keeps me wandering.  Hunted all my dogs about a month ago on a Saturday morning.  It was a typical Georgia February morning.  Started out the morning below freezing, but warmed up into the 50's by the time we were done hunting.  It was a new place, and the hogs had been there but nothing at all fresh.  Dogs hunted good all morning, but didn't even run a hog.  We packed it up mid morning, all of the dogs acted fine.  Loaded up in the truck by themselves like nothing was wrong. Went home, and everybody was still fine acting.  I fed and watered them, and they all ate.  Went out to feed on Sunday after church, and one of my young bay dogs looked awful.  The right side of his face was drooping and swollen, and he'd scratched the whole right  side of his head down to his hide.  Looked like a knot about the size of a tennis ball under his jaw.  From the left side, couldn't tell anything was wrong.  He was breathing fine, but could tell he was sluggish acting.  Still eating and drinking fine.  My first assumption was snakebite.  Made a phone call to the vet.  He said if it was a snake, that it was too late for anti venom or anything now.  I gave him a shot of dex, and loaded him up with benedryl.  Vet said come see him in the morning if he wasn't back to normal.  About 1:30 that night, heard all of the dogs raising cane.  Went outside, and he couldn't even pick his head up or come out of the barrel.  Breathing was extremely shallow and labored.  Within 5 minutes, he died.  Like I said, not that it matters now, but any idea what this could be other than snakebite?  I just feel like I would've heard it if he got hit by a snake, or noticed swelling after the hunt.  Not to mention, it was below freezing and snakes shouldn't be too active just yet.  No way it was a snake in the pen, because they're in raised plywood pens.  I attached pics of both sides of his head.  Rough looking pics I know, but just thought maybe some of the experienced guys on here had seen something like it.  Talked to some old school guys around here and heard anything from snake, to spider, to pseudorabies. 
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/jlewis713/NCM_0366.jpg) (http://s883.photobucket.com/user/jlewis713/media/NCM_0366.jpg.html)
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/jlewis713/NCM_0365.jpg) (http://s883.photobucket.com/user/jlewis713/media/NCM_0365.jpg.html)

With him scratching his head like that it sounds like pseudorabies... I have dogs get snake bit all the time and have never seen them scratch at it or die.

I agree with Mike...definitely not a snake bite...I have had dogs snake but by copper heads, cotton mouth moccasin and rattlesnake and have never lost a dog yet...they usually swell pretty bad and will be plenty sick for a while but they get over it...that has been my experience...

Im from Oglethorpe county Georgia and that place is loaded down with rattlesnakes. We took so many dogs to the vet with rattlesnake bites that he finally told us to just give them benedryl  and keep them isolated because they'll be real uncomfortable for a few day's.  We even had my granny's little boston terrier bit on top of the head by a big one in the yard. His head swelled up like a dang melon. But he made it through.  I don't have any idea what could have got ahold of your dog but I'd bet it wasn't a snake. Sorry you lost one though. 

Definitely not a snake, I've had a handful of dogs snake bit, never looked like that. I was going to suggest a spider bite, but I don't know anything about pseudo rabies

I am with mike on that sorry to hear that


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Yep that's a major symton of pseudo rabies.

Me & my hunting buddy have lost 12  dogs to pseudorabies over the years. I think that is what your dog had.Was the dog was exposed to pseudo about a week prior to him going down? If you had him in hogs a week or so before he went down,that is when he contacted  pseudo.

I do know snakes well. If a snake was out at all, and the temps never got out of the 50's, that snake would barely be able to crawl around or move at all. It is almost impossible he would have energy to lift up and strike anything. If you were below freezing that day especially. Now if it had been a hot day and then dropped down into the 50's it is possible he could move enough to bite. I say it is less than 1% chance a snake is responsible just for that reasom. I'd say it's impossible except nothing is impossible, but that is close to it.

Caught hogs with him on Monday and he died on a Sunday. Really all of his symptoms were pretty consistent with pseudorabies. I'd just always heard of people losing multiple dogs at once to it, and he was the only one.  Crazy thing is that he's actually one of my looser baying dogs. I always assumed catch dogs and rough dogs would be more likely.

Sounds like you got lucky you didn't loose more dogs, sorry for your loss

you should have taken a blood sample to the vet that next morning. IF, hopefully not, but IF another dogs gets the same symptoms, draw blood and if the vet aint open, put it in the fridge and take it in the next day. It may cost a pretty penny, but it will clear up the suspicions as to what it is. Iv nvr had a dealing with either, but im curious as to what it is now myself, but with the majority saying rabies, it stands a good chance of it being that. Hopefully no more come down with it.

Only way to be sure it was or wasn't pseudo is to send in his head. From the description I say this is the cause. I have seen guys lose packs or just one. No rhyme or reason to it. Pseudo is carried in the genitalia of hogs. That in my mind is why the dog got it. Those loose dogs tend to grab the back end after the bull dog grabs ear. Pseudo is also known by old timers as the mad itch. 


Shotgun
Arkansas

Sounds like something you'd get in vegas

I looked it up on the Internet and there were trapped pigs with pseudo rabies next to a place I hunt last year, should I not hunt there? Or is it pretty uncommon for dogs to catch that?

Many of the areas I hunt have had positive test results for pseudo rabies such as wmas .It's my understanding that while a pig may carry the disease it may not show symptoms or be contagious until stressed.I have always been told to give a hog 2 weeks after catching before you use it to train dogs to ensure that it doesn't have an outbreak.I to have heard it called the mad itch but it can be contracted by biting the pig anywhere as it is carried in saliva, mucose,reproductive organs and blood.

Looks like psuedo. Young dogs usually get it or dogs with compromised immune system.

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I also agree that was not a snake bite. Here is one snake that almost climbed in the boat with us. Temps. were around freezing that morning & it warmed up to about 50 or so. This snake swam across a bayou right to us & started to climb in the back of the boat. While they might be lethargic in cold weather, they can still bite.

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii207/lacauley/Rattlesnake%2011-6-14_zpsc2muma6r.jpg) (http://s265.photobucket.com/user/lacauley/media/Rattlesnake%2011-6-14_zpsc2muma6r.jpg.html)

Nice cane break , were ate up with them suckers here

Is that variety poisonous? We only have rattlers out here, they're usually considerate enough to give you warning and almost never aggressive

Yes, This is a Timber Rattler or also know as a Canebrake Rattlesnake.

Cajun, I'd say something was weird with that snake anyhow, I don't know any rattlers that swim if they can help it. Also, *near* freezing really is different than below freezing when it comes to a snake. Dropping below freezing really shuts a snake down, but near freezing they can warm back up quicker when temps rise.
Good looking snake. Don't ever kill one and post pictures of it in Texas anyway, Timbers are protected here and they have prosecuted guys from posted pictures before !

if they are protected, then the possum sheriff better put a tracking tag on each and every one of them. if i see one, I'm not gonna wait to see what kind it is, I'm gonna shoot first and walk the F away, most ricky tick.

Just don't go bragging or posting pictures! There was a guy a few years back got his picture in the local paper holding the big old rattlesnake he killed. It was a Timber Rattler and tpwd DID track him down and slap some real nasty fines on him. I've heard the same about pictures online in forums, if somebody reports it. It's about like shooting a bald eagle according to the law.
But timber rattlers are funny, in Texas anyway, they are really tied to their den sites. You will only find them inside of maybe 3/4 mile from their den, outside of that you can live your whole life and never see one. That's why they are  on endangered list, most of their dens had Walmart and strip malls built over them years ago.

I have seen very few rattlers in the woods in Brazoria and Jackson counties...they have been turning those Timber rattlers loose in the wildlife refuges...they say the don't breed very often as another reason why they are protected...as a kid my uncle killed three around mustang creek in Ganado, TX the whole time he lived there...all three were 6 footers...

the woods close to the bays are a different story, especially close to the marshes...

I can't believe there protected in some areas. This is no joke when I say it aint nothing to see 20 or 30 in a summer without even looking for them.  Thats just  whats crossing the road or spotted in the woods. About 2 years ago my dad called me to come up from my granny's (next door) because there were to 5 to 6 footers mating in the yard. We got them and decided to go through some tin I had stacked up and sure enough the first piece we flipped over had another one under it.  :o

Briar you are right, probably not a good idea to post it on here. They are not endangered here & any venomous snake that climbs in the boat with me is going to be short lived.
  Rattlers are great swimmers & swim like a cottonmouth with there body on top of the water with their head held high. Down in the marsh where I hunt & all around La. they are plentiful. When I lived in Fla., it was not uncommon to see pics. of diamondbacks swimming at the beach.

I never heard of pseudorabies until this thread. After reading up on it, dang that is scary stuff.
Now do you have to worry every time you hunt that area? From what I read, it is real easy to pass around.

i've been told that 75 % of hogs carry it . thats why wild hogs don't have as big of litters as tame hogs . its contracted just like aids . but its not that common for a dog to get it . ,the conditions have to be right . there is no vaccine and no cure .

If you go to this link you can read what happend around our area this same time 2 years ago. It hit several guys pretty hard and may give a little i sight to what happened to your dog.

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=83846.msg502171#msg502171